Big 10 Expansion

[01Hawk05]

All this talk about Texas and OU to the SEC and the Big10 following suit and making moves.

What are the Big10 bylaws in terms of sports you need to have?

For example, let’s say the conference added Kansas or ISU….would Kansas need to add wrestling and ISU add baseball?

Not saying those schools would be added but just wondering how it could possibly affect non revenue sports like wrestling.

 

[Mountain Man Hawk]

I don’t know the rules but Wisconsin already doesn’t have a baseball team.

Also in the (in my opinion) likely scenario where schools start paying players directly, I think it’s likely we will see more of these sports dropped unfortunately. I hope it doesn’t happen but it feels to me like the old rules aren’t going to apply much longer and lots of changes are coming that are pretty unpredictable.

 

[FineMaterial]

If the key word is NEED, you definitely have to follow the money. As much as we all here want more wrestling, it is in general a money loser. The only sport I'd guess would be enhanced by expanding it to all big 10 would be hockey. With no NHL team I'd guess hockey would do well in Iowa. On the other hand it would also force more balancing with women sports (women's hockey is not a great sport, nor will it ever be). So yes, unpredictable may be the watch word.

 

[el dub]

I don’t know the rules but Wisconsin already doesn’t have a baseball team.

Also in the (in my opinion) likely scenario where schools start paying players directly, I think it’s likely we will see more of these sports dropped unfortunately. I hope it doesn’t happen but it feels to me like the old rules aren’t going to apply much longer and lots of changes are coming that are pretty unpredictable.

Schools paying athletes directly? Lol That stretch is apparently what many around here think happened with the recent ruling.

 

[globalhawk]

All this talk about Texas and OU to the SEC and the Big10 following suit and making moves.

What are the Big10 bylaws in terms of sports you need to have?

For example, let’s say the conference added Kansas or ISU….would Kansas need to add wrestling and ISU add baseball?

Not saying those schools would be added but just wondering how it could possibly affect non revenue sports like wrestling.

Unfortunately, wrestling isn’t required by the B10.

 

[wasdt21]

would they be entitled to money for team pictures, if said pictures are used to sell season tickets ?sorry wrong thread

 

[SPOONER]

There are absolutely no requirements to carry a certain non revenue sport.

Hockey isn’t a big sport in Iowa. Would be a big challenge to break even annually.

 

[pumpdog20]

Lets say the 4 super conferences break away from the NCAA in football. Would the Title 9 numbers and proportions change? If the 85 football scholarships drop off the count for Title 9 proportions of scholarships. I think this would be huge in terms of viability for men's Olympic sports.

Isn't Title 9 required by law, not NCAA?

 

[ping72]

Isn't Title 9 required by law, not NCAA?

This. It has nothing to do with the NCAA. So unless some outside source is paying for all of the football scholarships, it would have no effect on Title IX.

 

[ping72]

Also, there is almost zero chance that Iowa State would be allowed to join the B10.

 

[Case I H]

Let's add Oklahoma State and Virginia Tech.

 

[globalhawk]

Let's add Oklahoma State and Virginia Tech.

I would think Virginia and North Carolina would be more attractive for the B10.

 

[HawkeyeMass]

I would think Virginia and North Carolina would be more attractive for the B10.

I agree. The B1G has shown that it’s just as much about the media market as it is the school. ISU adds zero value to the conference. KU, KState, OSU etc.. don’t have the media market to increase revenues across all schools.

 

[01Hawk05]

I would think Virginia and North Carolina would be more attractive for the B10.

Lol. I’m like many of you. Every rumor that comes out I completely think about wrestling.

I just hope whoever the conf may add seriously considers adding wrestling if they don’t have it.

 

[globalhawk]

Lol. I’m like many of you. Every rumor that comes out I completely think about wrestling.

I just hope whoever the conf may add seriously considers adding wrestling if they don’t have it.

Academics plays a big part in expansion.

 

[pumpdog20]

why do people think schools will want to run to the big ten after they damn near wanted to torpedo their schools' athletic economy last year?

 

[grapplefann]

There are absolutely no requirements to carry a certain non revenue sport.

Hockey isn’t a big sport in Iowa. Would be a big challenge to break even annually.

We don't need hockey in Iowa. We want kids to wrestle in the winter instead of playing hockey.

 

[01Hawk05]

Academics plays a big part in expansion.

Yeah, I keep hearing that but if anyone thinks that conference realignment has to do with anything other than college football they are crazy.

The college athletics landscape is changing and if the Big10 isn’t careful and doesn’t play it’s cards right, some of their powerhouse schools could be next.

 

[grapplefann]

Academics plays a big part in expansion.

KU may be the best school academically in the Big 12 after Texas and B-ball is a religion there.
Football? Worst in the nation, and football is where the big money is.

 

[globalhawk]

Yeah, I keep hearing that but if anyone thinks that conference realignment has to do with anything other than college football they are crazy.

The college athletics landscape is changing and if the Big10 isn’t careful and doesn’t play it’s cards right, some of their powerhouse schools could be next.

Virginia and NC are very good schools.

 

[SPOONER]

Yeah, I keep hearing that but if anyone thinks that conference realignment has to do with anything other than college football they are crazy.

The college athletics landscape is changing and if the Big10 isn’t careful and doesn’t play it’s cards right, some of their powerhouse schools could be next.

Anyone telling you that isn’t keeping up with the times. This basically has nothing to do with academics.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

Lol. I’m like many of you. Every rumor that comes out I completely think about wrestling.

I just hope whoever the conf may add seriously considers adding wrestling if they don’t have it.

Agreed. ^^ But my counter point is that I would hate to see several grappling programs effectively orphaned by any conference realignments. The B12 is already shaky...taking a couple/few programs out via conference jostling could be a net negative to all of D1 wrestling IMO.

 

[wasdt21]

so okie gonna drop wrestling

 

[ping72]

Academics plays a big part in expansion.

It used to. But the B10 adding Nebraska demonstrated they don’t give a rip about academics anymore.

 

[ping72]

I agree. The B1G has shown that it’s just as much about the media market as it is the school. ISU adds zero value to the conference. KU, KState, OSU etc.. don’t have the media market to increase revenues across all schools.

This. And this is why Iowa St will not be added. They add zero new market expansion as Iowa is already completely covered.

Colorado, Missouri, or something on the east coast (a school in New York or Virginia perhaps) makes the most sense.

 

[01Hawk05]

Agreed. ^^ But my counter point is that I would hate to see several grappling programs effectively orphaned by any conference realignments. The B12 is already shaky...taking a couple/few programs out via conference jostling could be a net negative to all of D1 wrestling IMO.

Yes, for sure! Hopefully Oklahoma sticks with it like Mizzou did.

 

[rider57]

I agree. The B1G has shown that it’s just as much about the media market as it is the school. ISU adds zero value to the conference. KU, KState, OSU etc.. don’t have the media market to increase revenues across all schools.

Kansas could give you the Kansas City market. TCU could give you Dallas, but you likely won't land TCU without Baylor & TT. West Virginia could be interesting. Okie State has a lot of $, I could see the TheBIG courting them.

 

[93hawkeye]

I don't feel every conference team needs to have a wrestling program. We already wrestle against conference programs that can barely put a few hundred fans in the stands to watch their team get beat by the Hawks 45-3. That adds nothing, IMO

 

[natchrlman]

having OSU in the BIG would be awesome for wrestling season..... man the BIG tournament would almost be better than Nationals..... they’re good in basketball too I guess..... not terrible in football..... academics and revenue not so much?

 

[FineMaterial]

There are absolutely no requirements to carry a certain non revenue sport.

Hockey isn’t a big sport in Iowa. Would be a big challenge to break even annually.

Even if hockey isn't big in Iowa I'd be optimistic. In PA there is little hockey base in high school (though they have 2 NHL teams) but PSU got a big donation to get hockey going, they stole a good coach, and are now an important team nationally.

 

[SPOONER]

Even if hockey isn't big in Iowa I'd be optimistic. In PA there is little hockey base in high school (though they have 2 NHL teams) but PSU got a big donation to get hockey going, they stole a good coach, and are now an important team nationally.

There are 150 high school hockey teams in PA. Their HS hockey is sanctioned by USA hockey and run by the Penguins and Flyers.

Iowa has 8.

 

[Hawkeyecurtis81]

having OSU in the BIG would be awesome for wrestling season..... man the BIG tournament would almost be better than Nationals..... they’re good in basketball too I guess..... not terrible in football..... academics and revenue not so much?

Add in their baseball team and their men’s athletics are solid. The big 4 wrestling teams in the same conference would make a very entertaining tournament.

 

[Inthecircle]

This is all pretty sad. Chasing $$$ for what reasons? Do athletic departments give back to their respective universities?
I suppose it would put non-revenue sports on a more firm foundation? Most likely it would result in facilities upgrades to enhance football recruiting?

The other rumors I’ve heard is that TX & OU reached out to the BIG and they dropped the ball. This hurts because having TX add a wrestling team would have been huge for the sport of wrestling. (Not that it was given). I highly doubt TX adds wrestling in the SEC. GA & FL need to step up and add wrestling in order to have wrestling expand in the SEC.

 

[grapplefann]

Add in their baseball team and their men’s athletics are solid. The big 4 wrestling teams in the same conference would make a very entertaining tournament.

Academically, there's no way that an Okie State or a West Virgina could cut it in the Big Ten. Academics may not matter as much to the Big Ten anymore, but they still have to keep up appearances. Notre Dame and Pitt would be the best choices, but extremely unlikely, followed far behind by KU and Iowa State.

I read that KU made three times the revenue from their worst-in-the-nation football program than they did from their always-top-ten B-ball program because of Big 12 money sharing. Power 5 football rules in college sports revenue.

 

[Hawkeyecurtis81]

This is all pretty sad. Chasing $$$ for what reasons? Do athletic departments give back to their respective universities?
I suppose it would put non-revenue sports on a more firm foundation? Most likely it would result in facilities upgrades to enhance football recruiting?

The other rumors I’ve heard is that TX & OU reached out to the BIG and they dropped the ball. This hurts because having TX add a wrestling team would have been huge for the sport of wrestling. (Not that it was given). I highly doubt TX adds wrestling in the SEC. GA & FL need to step up and add wrestling in order to have wrestling expand in the SEC.

I haven’t heard anything about OU or TX wanting to join the BIG10. Where was this reported? If those schools wanted in the BIG10 would let them in no question.

 

[Hawkeyecurtis81]

Academically, there's no way that an Okie State or a West Virgina could cut it in the Big Ten. Academics may not matter as much to the Big Ten anymore, but they still have to keep up appearances. Notre Dame and Pitt would be the best choices, but extremely unlikely, followed far behind by KU and Iowa State.
I read that KU made three times the revenue from their worst-in-the-nation football program than they did from their always-top-ten B-ball program because of Big 12 money sharing. Power 5 football rules in college sports revenue.

I can believe the money differential from football and basketball.
I agree with the academic side of the argument. I’m not sure that’s as important as it once was. I think football money is far more important.

 

[SPOONER]

This is all pretty sad. Chasing $$$ for what reasons?

The other rumors I’ve heard is that TX & OU reached out to the BIG and they dropped the ball.

The reason? Keeping an athletic department alive and relevant. Sit back and watch other schools soak up the bucks and you're going to be in a world of hurt. The eventual move to a P5 "Big 64" isn't great news for small wrestling programs.

As for that rumor, not only have I never heard it but it is completely nonsensical. The B1G would have taken them before they had a chance to hang up the phone.

 

[Inthecircle]

I haven’t heard anything about OU or TX wanting to join the BIG10. Where was this reported? If those schools wanted in the BIG10 would let them in no question.

It’s on the football board. The claim was that someone inside the WI Athletic Department had first hand knowledge. The claim/rumor is what spurned Alvarez joining the BIG Administration, as assistant consultant to BIG commish Warner for football.
I have nothing to substantiate it. More will be revealed I guess?

 

[BBptg5]

Lets say the 4 super conferences break away from the NCAA in football. Would the Title 9 numbers and proportions change? If the 85 football scholarships drop off the count for Title 9 proportions of scholarships. I think this would be huge in terms of viability for men's Olympic sports.

It won’t matter if teams are under the NCAA footprint they will still need to adhere to title 9. That’s a federal mandate not a NCAA one.

 

[BBptg5]

Schools paying athletes directly? Lol That stretch is apparently what many around here think happened with the recent ruling.

No, what people should think is that now under the table inducements that were once primarily happening in football basketball and penn st wrestling will now trickle down to other sports and become both semi legal and common place. Eventual mega conferences ruled by football. Wrestling will take a back seat along with other olympic sports.