Brad Underwood on Drew Thelwell: "Man, that kid’s really good." Fran: "The top 150 high school players, they all have agents."

[LukaDuka]

The damage that accrued allowing Utah to gain the advantage was on Perkins , not with Harding in the game. Iowa actually clawed back into the game before halftime with Harding in the game.
There's more to being a good offensive and defensive player then height, but that's all you and others can think about, it will change come this fall as you will see Harding is the real deal. As I've said before, any player that comes to Iowa is not devoid of some faults and pointing out Harding is only 6 foot tall can beH

The damage that accrued allowing Utah to gain the advantage was on Perkin's watch, not with Harding in the game. Iowa actually clawed back into the game before halftime with Harding in the game.
There's more to being a good offensive and defensive player then height, but that's all you and others can think about, it will change come this fall as you will see Harding is the real deal. As I've said before, any player that comes to Iowa is not devoid of some faults and pointing out Harding is only 6 foot tall can be an advantage and he will use it to his advantage too.

I hope he does show massive improvement. I was a 5ft10in point guard myself & root for the undersized. Joe T was about same height as BH & he was a much better defender. BH needs to stop trying the bush league swipe from behind when his man beats him. This createis a two on one, typically against Freeman. Which causes him to foul way too often.

Brock needs to focus on a few areas:
1) Keep his man in front of him
2) know your limitations in the paint & not force it
3) limit turnovers - which he's mostly ok with from a small sample size
4) dribble less, pass more to keep the offense moving. Use the dribble when necessary, stay out of double teams
5) knock down open 3 pointers.

Did I miss anything here?

 

[RocknRollface]

The damage that accrued allowing Utah to gain the advantage was on Perkin's watch, not with Harding in the game. Iowa actually clawed back into the game before halftime with Harding in the game.
There's more to being a good offensive and defensive player then height, but that's all you and others can think about, it will change come this fall as you will see Harding is the real deal. As I've said before, any player that comes to Iowa is not devoid of some faults and pointing out Harding is only 6 foot tall can be an advantage and he will use it to his advantage too.

Accurate, Perkins checked out after Iowa was eliminated from tournament contention.

He should not have even participated in the NIT.

 

[RocknRollface]

I hope he does show massive improvement. I was a 5ft10in point guard myself & root for the undersized. Joe T was about same height as BH & he was a much better defender. BH needs to stop trying the bush league swipe from behind when his man beats him. This createis a two on one, typically against Freeman. Which causes him to foul way too often.

Brock needs to focus on a few areas:
1) Keep his man in front of him
2) know your limitations in the paint & not force it
3) limit turnovers - which he's mostly ok with from a small sample size
4) dribble less, pass more to keep the offense moving. Use the dribble when necessary, stay out of double teams
5) knock down open 3 pointers.

Did I miss anything here?

Nobody did the swipe from behind more than Toussaint. It was like every third possession with him.

Toussaint had great hands but he was not a great defender because he had no discipline.

A better coach, like say Izzo, would have made JT into a great defender.

 

[LukaDuka]

Nobody did the swipe from behind more than Toussaint. It was like every third possession with him.

Toussaint had great hands but he was not a great defender because he had no discipline.

A better coach, like say Izzo, would have made JT into a great defender.

probably so, but he had better/smarter defenders around him. Conner Mac, Garza, Weezy. Not great defenders by any stretch, but better than Fran's last two years for sure.

 

[herkhatescy]

You even have hate in your avatar.

You seem to define yourself by negativity.

Good luck with that, hoss.

**** off dickhead.

 

[eyesofhawk]

I don't think this is entirely true, unless you are saying that Fran has recruited players who are unable to defend and rebound. Which is certainly true. Last year's team was jus not physically gifted with the skills to rebound and defend. That's certainly on Fran for recruiting and playing them, but it is something he can and (I think) has changed this year. If you go back to some of the earlier teams, Fran had some decent defenders who had the physical ability and mental inclination to defend and rebound. Woodbury/Gessel and Clemmons being the best example. With this year's additions, I think we are physically and mentally in a MUCH better position to defend and rebound than last year.

Fran has not had 13 classes of players incapable of defending and rebounding.

We all know Fran's teams aren't good at D. Guess what; it has to do with coaching. When asked what he was going to do to address his teams' deficiency in defense, Fran, on more than one occasion, has answered, "we are an offensive program." This should tell you all you need to know.

Defensive rebounding mostly comes down to playing solid D. A a defense gets broken down, it loses its rebounding position. So in this post I will mostly lump defensive rebounding in with my thoughts about Iowa's defense.

In college basketball, defense is a team thing. Team functioning on defense gets cultivated, over time, through coaching.

Look at Kentucky. They've had the most elite of talent year in and year out. NBA level length, size, athleticism, bounce, lateral quickness. But they haven't been consistent over the years in their defensive effectiveness. Last season they were prone to give up 100. And quite often, early in seasons, they've been poor defensively. This is because they've been playing true freshman that have no clue what they themselves are doing defensively, let alone how to work together.

You can have five players on the floor with natural defensive ability. But they have to work together, play hard, defend with detail and discipline, and be held accountable. If even one of these isn't happening, you won't be great at defense in college basketball.

Gessel and Sapp both had good feet to keep the ball on front of them, which is huge. And they were tough. But the main reason that team was pretty good at D is because Woodbury was a phenomenal communicator on the back line. This helped to foster some of the necessary teamwork on the defensive end that is usually achieved through coaching. Of course there is more to defense than this, which is why that team was just pretty good, rather than great, defensively.

This has been covered many times on this board and it's very much common sense.

The reason Wisconsin has been great nearly every season defensively, with somewhat average athleticism, is coaching and culture. The reason ISU was great defensively two seasons ago, with somewhat average athleticism, and will remain great defensively, is coaching and culture. The reason Iowa football is great defensively every season, with 3star talent, is coaching and culture. The reason Air Force leads the nation every year in rushing is coaching.

Yes, Fran has many times leaned towards recruiting skilled players, regardless of athleticism. But it's not like he's been bringing in a bunch of elite bucket getters. The reason Iowa's offense is great every season is the nuance of its coaching.

Fran has at times also brought in recruits with defense in mind. And he has again done so for this season. And Iowa will be better defensively this season. With Krikke and PMac's minutes going to Traore, Dembele, and Tadjo, that's a no-brainer. But it will only be marginally better.

If you aren't fanatical about defense-if you don't eat sleep and breathe defense, as a program, there's just no way you're ever going to be great at it. That's just what defense is at the college level

 

[AmericaNeedsMe]

**** off dickhead.

 

[Rambler Hawk]

Ageee, I always compare guys who supposedly can't play defense to Nicolas Baer.

A big part of playing defense is....trying to play defense.

Patrick was completely uninterested in anything to do with being physical and specialized in cherry picking. Krikkes main objective on defense was to avoid any sort of contact that might get called a foul so that he could stay in and get shots up.

Patrick and Krikke might be the worst defensive ‘duo’ to don the black and gold….it was brutal when they played at the same time. Opposing coaches must have loved it….😉

 

[eyesofhawk]

When Fran puts out a team capable of defending and rebounding, then I might have a little more enthusiasm.

We’ll see how much that improves with this team, if at all.

Brad Underwood on Drew Thelwell: "Man, that kid’s really good." Fran: "The top 150 high school players, they all have agents."

The damage that accrued allowing Utah to gain the advantage was on Perkins , not with Harding in the game. Iowa actually clawed back into the game before halftime with Harding in the game. There's more to being a good offensive and defensive player then height, but that's all you and others can...

iowa.forums.rivals.com

 

[IllQChawk]

I don't understand, there's many on here that believe that for Iowa to change the culture of the program, Fran needs to teach defense. Is that correct, but Fran loves to put up offensive numbers that needs many offensive positions to achieve those goals. Do most of you don't understand that concept?
By Fran changing his philosophy to defense, Iowa's offensive numbers will go down, would you really like Iowa to run offense until the shot clock expired and play the hold and grab defense that Wisconsin was noted for?
Does anyone remember just last year Wisconsin's offensive numbers went up because of an addition of players like AJ Storr, but their defensive metrics went down considerably. It was completely out of their comfort zone, but whatever.
Fran is going to teach his style of defense that allows opponents to put up shots when they feel appropriate hoping they miss and Iowa can rebound. That's just the way it's been since Fran came to Iowa and it will continue until he retires and continuing to harp on this subject is just plan retarded.
Buy carry on as most on here will, because you can't understand that playing lock down defense doesn't go with putting up offensive numbers.
Being at the top of college basketball's offensive metrics does not go with being at the top of college basketballs defensive metrics, and Iowa is never going to get the type of athletes to be at the top of both categories.
At best, Iowa needs to play better man to man defense and better zone defense and hope it allows Iowa's defensive metrics to be at the level it was during the Adam Woodbury seasons. but who knows that may never happen again.
We can only hope that the influx of athletic players will see Iowa improve their defense to make this years team one of Fran's best. That's really all we can hope for.

 

[eyesofhawk]

I don't understand, there's many on here that believe that for Iowa to change the culture of the program, Fran needs to teach defense. Is that correct, but Fran loves to put up offensive numbers that needs many offensive positions to achieve those goals. Do most of you don't understand that concept?
By Fran changing his philosophy to defense, Iowa's offensive numbers will go down, would you really like Iowa to run offense until the shot clock expired and play the hold and grab defense that Wisconsin was noted for?
Does anyone remember just last year Wisconsin's offensive numbers went up because of an addition of players like AJ Storr, but their defensive metrics went down considerably. It was completely out of their comfort zone, but whatever.
Fran is going to teach his style of defense that allows opponents to put up shots when they feel appropriate hoping they miss and Iowa can rebound. That's just the way it's been since Fran came to Iowa and it will continue until he retires and continuing to harp on this subject is just plan retarded.
Buy carry on as most on here will, because you can't understand that playing lock down defense doesn't go with putting up offensive numbers.
Being at the top of college basketball's offensive metrics does not go with being at the top of college basketballs defensive metrics, and Iowa is never going to get the type of athletes to be at the top of both categories.
At best, Iowa needs to play better man to man defense and better zone defense and hope it allows Iowa's defensive metrics to be at the level it was during the Adam Woodbury seasons. but who knows that may never happen again.
We can only hope that the influx of athletic players will see Iowa improve their defense to make this years team one of Fran's best. That's really all we can hope for.

I'm laying 2-1 you've had some drinks.

Nobody in this thread has suggested that Fran needs to change his philosophy, although many believe that.

I'm assuming some of your post was is in reaction to my post, since it was about defense.

But my post was directed at those who think Iowa's lack of defense has been due to players that are incapable. And my point was that it's been due to lack of coaching defense.

Yes, it's hard to be great at offense and defense. UCONN pretty much has been, but they've had great talent. But they've also had great coaching at both ends.

But for most programs there does have to be a bit of a trade-off. But it doesn't have to be near as drastic as Fran has taken it. There are a few simple things that would help the defense. One is a more athletic recruit. And from time to time, I think this has been Fran's way of trying to be better at defense.

But you are correct that Iowa will never be very good defensively under Fran, and complaining does no good. I think, at the same time, it's reasonable to expect that Fran put some real effort into addressing his defensive deficiencies. He coaches at a very high level of competition and is very well compensated. And he is borderline negligent when it comes to defense. As you have hilariously pointed out, hoping to play better man-to-man and zone, and hoping opponents miss shots seems to be about as real as Fran's answers have gotten.

I think fans would always trade style of play for more winning. Pace is only part what goes into whether a team plays good offense or defense. Wisconsin scored a lot easier last season, but they were still in the 300's in pace. They just didn't have one of their better defensive teams. And part of that is probably because with their easier scoring on offense, they weren't forced to be as dialed in on defense.

But pace aside, the reason Wisconsin is usually good at D is because they play with good fundamentals. And the reason Iowa is bad at D is because they play with poor fundamentals. You can play a fast pace and not be fundamentally deficient on defense. That's the frustrating part.

But you're probably right. It probably is what it is. There are a lot of things to enjoy about Iowa basketball. It just happens to be that their weaknesses are incredibly frustrating to me. I'm not going to constantly complain, call for Fran's job, and spread negativity in the community. But I'm at the point where I wouldn't mind if Iowa did happen to go in another direction

 

[the notorious r.d.m.]

But pace aside, the reason Wisconsin is usually good at D is because they play with good fundamentals. And the reason Iowa is bad at D is because they play with poor fundamentals. You can play a fast pace and not be fundamentally deficient on defense. That's the frustrating part.

You can play good defense at a fast pace, but you need the dawgs to be able to do that. High tempo, great defensive teams are limited to mainly to blue bloods. Tommy Lloyd at Arizona, Calipari, Roy Williams and Hubert Davis at North Carolina, Mark Few recently (though he gets the benefit of the WCC), Nate Oats at Alabama, Coach K on occasion. Almost all the top defensive teams all play at a slower pace.

But really it all comes down to tournament play like most say. If Fran had 3 or 4 Sweet 16s no one would care this much about his defense.

 

[BrewHawk]

It's very similar to baseball where good pitching typically beats good hitting.

In basketball, good defense can always be played (if emphasized). Good shooting doesn't always happen, especially in the face of good defense.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

I don't understand, there's many on here that believe that for Iowa to change the culture of the program, Fran needs to teach defense. Is that correct, but Fran loves to put up offensive numbers that needs many offensive positions to achieve those goals. Do most of you don't understand that concept?
By Fran changing his philosophy to defense, Iowa's offensive numbers will go down, would you really like Iowa to run offense until the shot clock expired and play the hold and grab defense that Wisconsin was noted for?
Does anyone remember just last year Wisconsin's offensive numbers went up because of an addition of players like AJ Storr, but their defensive metrics went down considerably. It was completely out of their comfort zone, but whatever.
Fran is going to teach his style of defense that allows opponents to put up shots when they feel appropriate hoping they miss and Iowa can rebound. That's just the way it's been since Fran came to Iowa and it will continue until he retires and continuing to harp on this subject is just plan retarded.
Buy carry on as most on here will, because you can't understand that playing lock down defense doesn't go with putting up offensive numbers.
Being at the top of college basketball's offensive metrics does not go with being at the top of college basketballs defensive metrics, and Iowa is never going to get the type of athletes to be at the top of both categories.
At best, Iowa needs to play better man to man defense and better zone defense and hope it allows Iowa's defensive metrics to be at the level it was during the Adam Woodbury seasons. but who knows that may never happen again.
We can only hope that the influx of athletic players will see Iowa improve their defense to make this years team one of Fran's best. That's really all we can hope for.

While it is true that if you slow the pace down, the other team will score fewer points, and vice versa, Fran does NOT need to slow it down a lot, he needs to improve defensive efficiency. That involves a variety of things, but the best place to start is defensive rebounding, limiting second and third chances to score. I am confident that will improve from last year's mess with Patrick, Krikke, and freshmen playing center, but it could get really good with the personnel Fran now has available, if the coaches work at it. The other things, like perimeter players staying in front of their man, learning how to play pick and roll, walling up on the interior without reaching, switching defenses, and constantly communicating with each other, are all things that require repetition and learning to work together. Fran has no excuses to not have a good defense this year. I totally disagree with your position that he can't have good offense and still have a good defense.

 

[eyesofhawk]

While it is true that if you show the pace down, the other team will score fewer points, and vice versa, Fran does NOT need to slow it down a lot, he needs to improve defensive efficiency. That involves a variety of things, but the best place to start is defensive rebounding, limiting second and third chances to score. I am confident that will improve from last year's mess with Patrick, Krikke, and freshmen playing center, but it could get really good with the personnel Fran now has available, if the coaches work at it. The other things, like perimeter players staying in front of their man, learning how to play pick and roll, walling up on the interior without reaching, switching defenses, and constantly communicating with each other, are all things that require repetition and learning to work together. Fran has no excuses to not have a good defense this year. I totally disagree with your position that he can't have good offense and still have a good defense.

You are correct that efficiency, regardless of pace, is what matters. And you are correct that it's completely possible to be good offensively and defensively.

But we're talking about Fran. Nothing has changed in 14 years. Other than he has at times had rosters more capable of defending and rebounding. And this year's team will be one of those rosters if the backcourt stays healthy. The defense and rebounding will definitely be better than last season. But the team will be good at best defensively because Fran will not teach it with the necessary repetition, detail, emphasis, and accountability.

You are correct that extra possessions are huge. Fran does have a team more capable of rebounding and rebounding the way he teaches it.

But to me, the best starting point to improve the D is ball containment. This is easier to fix than all the other stuff, as it only requires effort, emphasis and accountability, and angle detail.

But most importantly, limiting penetration PREVENTS the myriad of other problems that Fran doesn't build his teams to be good at. Poor communication, lack of understanding and executing help rules, lack of personnel appropriate help, over-help, lack of understanding and execution of rotation rules, close-out responsibility and detail, lack of physicality, loss of rebounding position, etc., etc. All of this is prevented by keeping the ball in front of you.

I would call defensive rebounding very valuable, rather than a starting point, as it limits extra possessions. Each possession equates to just over one point on average, depending on how efficient an offense and opposing defense is. But limiting penetration is the starting point, as it allows a defense to keep its rebounding position. And it prevents everything else I mentioned.

But in the end, "starting point" may also be a fairly accurate description for defensive rebounding, as I think it is Fran's main way to address the defense. Rather than put the time in for the necessary repetition and detail-rather than have defense be an emphasis all season, he's gotten some guys that should be able to naturally carve better rebounding position early in the possession. And then hold their positioning for a split-second longer if the D has been broken down, and go and get some boards when they don't have ideal positioning. This team should also get to more lose balls.

As for ball containment, this team has the feet in the backcourt to do it. Unfortunately, it has to stay healthy. And unfortunately, there is no depth to bench someone in the name of accountability. So we'll see how much effort the three guards are able to sustain without being held accountable. This also goes for things like Brock's reach-around. Hopefully he figures out to ditch it, because Fran won't hold him accountable for it. If he does, he will be a great defender.

I anticipate a lineup of something like Thelwell, Dix, Traore, Payton, and Freeman. This team has the feet to keep the ball in front of them, as Traore can guard the 3, which allows Payton to guard the 4. Where the Hawks will run into trouble defensively is if the effort of one of these guys starts to drop, because again, Fran won't hold them accountable for it.

The effectiveness at limiting penetration will drop off a bit as Iowa goes into its bench. At best, Pryce will have to guard some 3's, which at times, will present some problems. Same with lineups that have Payton guarding the 3. And knowing Fran, he will at times play some funky lineups with Payton or Pryce guarding a 2, in which Iowa will be in trouble defensively.

But overall, this team definitely has more potential to defend and rebound. We'll see how much Fran gets out of them in these areas

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

You are correct that efficiency, regardless of pace, is what matters. And you are correct that it's completely possible to be good offensively and defensively.

But we're talking about Fran. Nothing has changed in 14 years. Other than he has at times had rosters more capable of defending and rebounding. And this year's team will be one of those rosters if the backcourt stays healthy. The defense and rebounding will definitely be better than last season. But the team will be good at best defensively because Fran will not teach it with the necessary repetition, detail, emphasis, and accountability.

You are correct that extra possessions are huge. Fran does have a team more capable of rebounding and rebounding the way he teaches it.

But to me, the best starting point to improve the D is ball containment. This is easier to fix than all the other stuff, as it only requires effort, emphasis and accountability, and angle detail.

But most importantly, limiting penetration PREVENTS the myriad of other problems that Fran doesn't build his teams to be good at. Poor communication, lack of understanding and executing help rules, lack of personnel appropriate help, over-help, lack of understanding and execution of rotation rules, close-out responsibility and detail, lack of physicality, loss of rebounding position, etc., etc. All of this is prevented by keeping the ball in front of you.

I would call defensive rebounding very valuable, rather than a starting point, as it limits extra possessions. Each possession equates to just over one point on average, depending on how efficient an offense and opposing defense is. But limiting penetration is the starting point, as it allows a defense to keep its rebounding position. And it prevents everything else I mentioned.

But in the end, "starting point" may also be a fairly accurate description for defensive rebounding, as I think it is Fran's main way to address the defense. Rather than put the time in for the necessary repetition and detail-rather than have defense be an emphasis all season, he's gotten some guys that should be able to naturally carve better rebounding position early in the possession. And then hold their positioning for a split-second longer if the D has been broken down, and go and get some boards when they don't have ideal positioning. This team should also get to more lose balls.

As for ball containment, this team has the feet in the backcourt to do it. Unfortunately, it has to stay healthy. And unfortunately, there is no depth to bench someone in the name of accountability. So we'll see how much effort the three guards are able to sustain without being held accountable. This also goes for things like Brock's reach-around. Hopefully he figures out to ditch it, because Fran won't hold him accountable for it. If he does, he will be a great defender.

I anticipate a lineup of something like Thelwell, Dix, Traore, Payton, and Freeman. This team has the feet to keep the ball in front of them, as Traore can guard the 3, which allows Payton to guard the 4. Where the Hawks will run into trouble defensively is if the effort of one of these guys starts to drop, because again, Fran won't hold them accountable for it.

The effectiveness at limiting penetration will drop off a bit as Iowa goes into its bench. At best, Pryce will have to guard some 3's, which at times, will present some problems. Same with lineups that have Payton guarding the 3. And knowing Fran, he will at times play some funky lineups with Payton or Pryce guarding a 2, in which Iowa will be in trouble defensively.

But overall, this team definitely has more potential to defend and rebound. We'll see how much Fran gets out of them in these areas

So, we agree that this team should be much better defensively, unless injuries to the backcourt or the lack of coaching defense screws it up.

 

[CookyMonster]

Thelwell absolutely torched Illinois with 8 points on 3-8 shooting in a 16 point loss. He also destroyed Indiana with 9 points in a loss, burned Purdue with 8 (1 assist) in a blowout loss, and demolished Penn State with 7 in a blowout loss.

And he's not just a game changer on offense. In those 4 Big Ten games he averaged less than one steal per game!

Brad and the rest of the B1G are sweating and biting their fingernails.

I love how Hlas cites only the first half score against Illinois. lol Do you think they'll let us play only one half for a few B1G games this year? Because that might help.

Looks pretty good next to a bowen or ulis stat line

 

[IllQChawk]

Looks pretty good next to a bowen or ulis stat line

Quit harping on Thelwell, none of us know in what capacity he will have with this team. He will probably play both positions in the back court and getting plenty of court time. Only time will tell if he can truly be the player that will allow no drop off while he's on the court.

 

[CookyMonster]

Quit harping on Thelwell, none of us know in what capacity he will have with this team. He will probably play both positions in the back court and getting plenty of court time. Only time will tell if he can truly be the player that will allow no drop off while he's on the court.

Shut the fvck up

 

[fecal particulate]

Quit harping on Thelwell, none of us know in what capacity he will have with this team. He will probably play both positions in the back court and getting plenty of court time. Only time will tell if he can truly be the player that will allow no drop off while he's on the court.

Couldn’t you say the same about Harding?

 

[LukaDuka]

You are correct that efficiency, regardless of pace, is what matters. And you are correct that it's completely possible to be good offensively and defensively.

But we're talking about Fran. Nothing has changed in 14 years. Other than he has at times had rosters more capable of defending and rebounding. And this year's team will be one of those rosters if the backcourt stays healthy. The defense and rebounding will definitely be better than last season. But the team will be good at best defensively because Fran will not teach it with the necessary repetition, detail, emphasis, and accountability.

You are correct that extra possessions are huge. Fran does have a team more capable of rebounding and rebounding the way he teaches it.

But to me, the best starting point to improve the D is ball containment. This is easier to fix than all the other stuff, as it only requires effort, emphasis and accountability, and angle detail.

But most importantly, limiting penetration PREVENTS the myriad of other problems that Fran doesn't build his teams to be good at. Poor communication, lack of understanding and executing help rules, lack of personnel appropriate help, over-help, lack of understanding and execution of rotation rules, close-out responsibility and detail, lack of physicality, loss of rebounding position, etc., etc. All of this is prevented by keeping the ball in front of you.

I would call defensive rebounding very valuable, rather than a starting point, as it limits extra possessions. Each possession equates to just over one point on average, depending on how efficient an offense and opposing defense is. But limiting penetration is the starting point, as it allows a defense to keep its rebounding position. And it prevents everything else I mentioned.

But in the end, "starting point" may also be a fairly accurate description for defensive rebounding, as I think it is Fran's main way to address the defense. Rather than put the time in for the necessary repetition and detail-rather than have defense be an emphasis all season, he's gotten some guys that should be able to naturally carve better rebounding position early in the possession. And then hold their positioning for a split-second longer if the D has been broken down, and go and get some boards when they don't have ideal positioning. This team should also get to more lose balls.

As for ball containment, this team has the feet in the backcourt to do it. Unfortunately, it has to stay healthy. And unfortunately, there is no depth to bench someone in the name of accountability. So we'll see how much effort the three guards are able to sustain without being held accountable. This also goes for things like Brock's reach-around. Hopefully he figures out to ditch it, because Fran won't hold him accountable for it. If he does, he will be a great defender.

I anticipate a lineup of something like Thelwell, Dix, Traore, Payton, and Freeman. This team has the feet to keep the ball in front of them, as Traore can guard the 3, which allows Payton to guard the 4. Where the Hawks will run into trouble defensively is if the effort of one of these guys starts to drop, because again, Fran won't hold them accountable for it.

The effectiveness at limiting penetration will drop off a bit as Iowa goes into its bench. At best, Pryce will have to guard some 3's, which at times, will present some problems. Same with lineups that have Payton guarding the 3. And knowing Fran, he will at times play some funky lineups with Payton or Pryce guarding a 2, in which Iowa will be in trouble defensively.

But overall, this team definitely has more potential to defend and rebound. We'll see how much Fran gets out of them in these areas

Amen brother! Thanks for reiterating many of my points on here. Iowa gave up 11 offensive rebounds per game last year. Cut that at least in half & that'd be a hell of an improvement.

I live in San Diego & am a former season ticket holder of San Diego St basketball. I gave them up due to Coach Dutcher's lack of offense. I loved their tenacious defense, which almost won them a natty. But it killed me to watch them average under 65 points per game. And he had some offensive weapons in Bradley & PG Lamont Butler, who was a dogged on ball defender. Not many got around him & the way they fought through screens was a personal war for SD ST. He wasn't allowed to score much on offense, but in HS he broke Reggie Miller's scoring record. Brian Dutcher couldn't draw up an offensive play to save his life. But if you didn't defend, you didn't play. 2 fouls in the first half, you sat. Hard to watch at times, but you can't argue with his conference success & now his run to the final four with hard core D. They had players that could score, but Dutcher wanted to work down the clock & limit possessions. Complete opposite of Fran. Imagine if these two were co-head coaches?

To use a Ferentz comment, we need "complimentary basketball". Good offensive efficiency & hard nose "40 minutes of hell" defense. Rebound & make free throws. Granted, Fran hasn't had those defensive dogs.

Let's Go Hawks!

 

[LukaDuka]

Quit harping on Thelwell, none of us know in what capacity he will have with this team. He will probably play both positions in the back court and getting plenty of court time. Only time will tell if he can truly be the player that will allow no drop off while he's on the court.

Wow, are you still drinking the milk out of the bottom of Brock's cereal bowl after he's finished? clown

 

[chuck285]

Thank you for the compliment. I only wish to antagonize you & only due to your over enthusiasm for BH. I really hope he breaks out this year as I'm a die hard Hawk (realistic) fan. I watched every bit of the Utah game & it was an embarrassing effort by Fran's squad. How was BH's defense against Utah?

I really love most of the poster on this board. You bitch about the football them and only playing defense. Then you come over to the basketball side and bitch they only play offense.. I know it would be nice to be Alabama or Conn. but it ani't gonna happen..Be happy and positive once in a while......

 

[IllQChawk]

I hope he does show massive improvement. I was a 5ft10in point guard myself & root for the undersized. Joe T was about same height as BH & he was a much better defender. BH needs to stop trying the bush league swipe from behind when his man beats him. This createis a two on one, typically against Freeman. Which causes him to foul way too often.

Brock needs to focus on a few areas:
1) Keep his man in front of him
2) know your limitations in the paint & not force it
3) limit turnovers - which he's mostly ok with from a small sample size
4) dribble less, pass more to keep the offense moving. Use the dribble when necessary, stay out of double teams
5) knock down open 3 pointers.

Did I miss anything here?

One thing that Brock will not do less, his dribbling is what opens up the court to allow him to find open teammates. Something most on here seems to not understand. Will it get him in trouble once in a while, sure, but the amount of assists and open shots that it gives him, allows him to run the offense at a pace he's comfortable with.
He's one of the most creative dribblers in all of college basketball and his change of direction is what allows him to set himself apart from other point guards.
By the end of the year after he leads Iowa to the second week of the NCAA tournament, and yes I'm calling it, you all will appreciate just how special he is on the basketball court.

 

[LukaDuka]

I really love most of the poster on this board. You bitch about the football them and only playing defense. Then you come over to the basketball side and bitch they only play offense.. I know it would be nice to be Alabama or Conn. but it ani't gonna happen..Be happy and positive once in a while......

I just speak the truth. You're coming off as a whiny liberal democratic bitch yourself here... go away.

 

[LukaDuka]

One thing that Brock will not do less, his dribbling is what opens up the court to allow him to find open teammates. Something most on here seems to not understand. Will it get him in trouble once in a while, sure, but the amount of assists and open shots that it gives him, allows him to run the offense at a pace he's comfortable with.
He's one of the most creative dribblers in all of college basketball and his change of direction is what allows him to set himself apart from other point guards.
By the end of the year after he leads Iowa to the second week of the NCAA tournament, and yes I'm calling it, you all will appreciate just how special he is on the basketball court.

I'll agree he does have good handles. But Fran likes ball movement & motion offense. His over dribbling can stifle the movement & motion of his teammates. I hope Iowa does make it to 2nd round and more this year. I'm optimistic & love the talent they've added.

I do want to point out something I observed which makes me question his leadership. I attended Iowa's games over Thanksgiving in San Diego last year. The only time I was able to see him play live. During warmups all the players seemingly engaged with each other with the exception of BH. He went through the entire pregame wearing headphones. I get that listening to music can pump you up, but during team warmups & not engaging with the guys made me believe he thinks he's a prima donna. I know it was early into his freshman season, but I think Fran should've pulled him aside and said this is not the image of a leader. You obviously know him better than I, but to me this was a negative look.

And for the record, I don't hate the kid. I just counter balance your over enthusiasm for him. on here as well as point out his flaws & hope he cuts down on his mistakes. I'll take the good with the bad as long as it leads to Hawkeye wins!

Go Hawks!

 

[IllQChawk]

I'll agree he does have good handles. But Fran likes ball movement & motion offense. His over dribbling can stifle the movement & motion of his teammates. I hope Iowa does make it to 2nd round and more this year. I'm optimistic & love the talent they've added.

I do want to point out something I observed which makes me question his leadership. I attended Iowa's games over Thanksgiving in San Diego last year. The only time I was able to see him play live. During warmups all the players seemingly engaged with each other with the exception of BH. He went through the entire pregame wearing headphones. I get that listening to music can pump you up, but during team warmups & not engaging with the guys made me believe he thinks he's a prima donna. I know it was early into his freshman season, but I think Fran should've pulled him aside and said this is not the image of a leader. You obviously know him better than I, but to me this was a negative look.

And for the record, I don't hate the kid. I just counter balance your over enthusiasm for him. on here as well as point out his flaws & hope he cuts down on his mistakes. I'll take the good with the bad as long as it leads to Hawkeye wins!

Go Hawks!

Fair enough, but that is who Brock is, last year there was zero chance Brock was going to over take Desonte Bowen as the starting point guard or Tony Perkin's or Josh Dix. As a freshmen he was just biding his time and learning as much as he could and being the leader on the team was really not on the table at that point in time. As the season went along though he became much more vocal, but pregame warm ups are just that, lots of players wear I pods or headphones during pregame shoot arounds. It's a nothing burger and you're making more of it then it is, but that's you and you're opinion and please tell me that in Fran's "motion offense" during his time at Iowa, which point guard has led Iowa to the 2nd week of the NCAA tournament? None that I can remember and that includes the "great" Mike Gesell, Jordan Bohannan, and Tony Perkins. Maybe they were the one's that were as you say "stifling" Fran's motion offense? Hmmm?

 

[DanHawkPella]

Yeah, Brock is like having the dribbling propensity of Kelsey Mitchell but with the passing ability of Caitlin Clark, and without the elite shooting of either If he finds a consistent shot outside the arc and also in the mid-range (his 2 pt FG% wasn't good) then he can be a much more efficient player but stylistically he is a lot different and requires some adjustments.

You are correct that Fran's offenses are typically not dribble heavy - most players might get 2-3 dribbles before a dribble hand off or pass, but not much more. Brock could dribble up to 5-10 times when he penetrates which creates a much different offensive flow and players would react much differently to it than they would just running the standard motion actions they normally do.

I think Brock would be our best PG when the shot clock is under 15 seconds for example and things have broken down as he can create opportunities just by himself, but maybe Thelwell is a better PG in the early part of the shot clock. Unfortunately we can't do hockey substitutions mid way through a possession

I remember thinking that Jordan Bohannon was a great player to have the ball in his hands with the shot clock running down as he always seemed to be able to find a shot. Brock can do the same thing, but not just for himself but for others. You need those types of players for late shot clock or late game situations - they are invaluable and Caitlin Clark has done the same thing for teams she plays on. Compare that to late clock situations with Joe T, Ulis, Bowen or others where the late clock shot quality was never very good.

Excited by the depth and variety of players we have to work with this year. Growing pains with the younger and new guys for sure, but our rebounding, rim protection and athleticism on the perimeter all look improved and there are a lot of guys who will benefit from Brock's penetration and lobs now compared to last year's roster. Thelwell can hopefully be a guy who can be a defensive stopper for guys that Brock may have trouble with. I think both of them average 15-25mpg for sure, just not sure the mix yet.

 

[icwesthawk]

It is far too early to say what Harding will be. He has looked really good at times and looks overmatched too. Too many people want to say a player is good or bad way to early. Fran saw something, Illinois player of the year awards are not given away and he has looked like a good player at times. This season should really tell us a lot about him, he's got more talent around him so we have to let it play out.

 

[IllQChawk]

It is far too early to say what Harding will be. He has looked really good at times and looks overmatched too. Too many people want to say a player is good or bad way to early. Fran saw something, Illinois player of the year awards are not given away and he has looked like a good player at times. This season should really tell us a lot about him, he's got more talent around him so we have to let it play out.

I agree, the competition between Drew and Brock can only help both of them and Iowa going forward. Can't wait for the season to start.

 

[Mohawkeye]

Being able to dribble and break down a defense is a rare skill. Brick has shown he can do that, but he needs to be better at finishing and he needs to pick his moments. That’s just experience. I’m very high on the kid and if he continues to shoot the way he finished last year he’s going to be a problem for other teams.

 

[IllQChawk]

Being able to dribble and break down a defense is a rare skill. Brick has shown he can do that, but he needs to be better at finishing and he needs to pick his moments. That’s just experience. I’m very high on the kid and if he continues to shoot the way he finished last year he’s going to be a problem for other teams.

There's a few posters on here that have no vison, all they want is for Fran to run the same bland point guard that has dominated Fran's teams here at Iowa for the last 14 years, big whoop. How many fans are still bitching he hasn't gone past the 1st week of the NCAA tournament. There are many.....
It's like Kirk on the football side, being obsessed with starting a quarterback that has to be 6-5 and weighs 250lbs. I smell a repeat of last year after McNamara go's down again. Nothing like starting a slow quarterback that is susceptible to sacks by the other team. JMO

 

[herkhatescy]

There's a few posters on here that have no vison, all they want is for Fran to run the same bland point guard that has dominated Fran's teams here at Iowa for the last 14 years, big whoop. How many fans are still bitching he hasn't gone past the 1st week of the NCAA tournament. There are many.....
It's like Kirk on the football side, being obsessed with starting a quarterback that has to be 6-5 and weighs 250lbs. I smell a repeat of last year after McNamara go's down again. Nothing like starting a slow quarterback that is susceptible to sacks by the other team. JMO

I think Sullivan will be 100% upgrade on Big D.

 

[LukaDuka]

Being able to dribble and break down a defense is a rare skill. Brick has shown he can do that, but he needs to be better at finishing and he needs to pick his moments. That’s just experience. I’m very high on the kid and if he continues to shoot the way he finished last year he’s going to be a problem for other teams.

Brick? A Freudian slip or intentional dig? appropriate for the way he shot the ball last year, lol.

 

[LukaDuka]

There's a few posters on here that have no vison, all they want is for Fran to run the same bland point guard that has dominated Fran's teams here at Iowa for the last 14 years, big whoop. How many fans are still bitching he hasn't gone past the 1st week of the NCAA tournament. There are many.....
It's like Kirk on the football side, being obsessed with starting a quarterback that has to be 6-5 and weighs 250lbs. I smell a repeat of last year after McNamara go's down again. Nothing like starting a slow quarterback that is susceptible to sacks by the other team. JMO

Not disagreeing with your take, but Fran doesn't seem to value the pg position. He himself was a 6ft5in pg. He played both Dix & Perkins at pg when they are both more natural shooting guards. As stated by many on here, Fran likes scorers and ball movement over dribble penetration. As Mohawkeye & DanHawkPella mention, when the shot clock is running down you absolutely need someone that can dribble drive & create shots for themselves and others. BH can be that guy if he is under control & doesn't dribble into a trapping defense. I mentioned I hope he shows massive improvement in his decisions on the offensive side & stays in front of his man on the defensive end. If so, I'll be cheering for him. He is a Hawkeye.

 

[IllQChawk]

Not disagreeing with your take, but Fran doesn't seem to value the pg position. He himself was a 6ft5in pg. He played both Dix & Perkins at pg when they are both more natural shooting guards. As stated by many on here, Fran likes scorers and ball movement over dribble penetration. As Mohawkeye & DanHawkPella mention, when the shot clock is running down you absolutely need someone that can dribble drive & create shots for themselves and others. BH can be that guy if he is under control & doesn't dribble into a trapping defense. I mentioned I hope he shows massive improvement in his decisions on the offensive side & stays in front of his man on the defensive end. If so, I'll be cheering for him. He is a Hawkeye.

Gee, you're human after all. there's hope for you yet!
You'll warm up the Brock eventually....as Fran has said many times, when he went to a venue to watch Owen, Brock was the best player on the court. That is why he offered him a scholarship. Brock is a big game player.

 

[LukaDuka]

Gee, you're human after all. there's hope for you yet!
You'll warm up the Brock eventually....as Fran has said many times, when he went to a venue to watch Owen, Brock was the best player on the court. That is why he offered him a scholarship. Brock is a big game player.

My in-laws are from Missouri, you know.... the "show me" state.

 

[Dr. Phil Seuss]

When Fran puts out a team capable of defending and rebounding, then I might have a little more enthusiasm.

We’ll see how much that improves with this team, if at all.

Be real, anyone reading this thread knows that FMC is never going to field a good defensive team. Shit, there are times where he never has a single good defensive player on the floor

 

[LukaDuka]

Be real, anyone reading this thread knows that FMC is never going to field a good defensive team. Shit, there are times where he never has a single good defensive player on the floor

Woodbury & Gessel's teams played decent D.

 

[Dr. Phil Seuss]

Woodbury & Gessel's teams played decent D.

Did they? I remember them losing a lot of the tough, physical defensive games like the rest of Fran’s teams. But memory can fail us.

Looks like they gave up ~70ppg most of the time and their JR season had a good stretch of 62ppg

Most seasons, Iowa is ranking in the 200s in scoring D and I’ve never seen a team at any level close out on long range shooters with their hands down more than Iowa over the last decade.