"Brock Harding is a Gym Rat."
- Thread starter Franisdaman
- Start date
Both were not very good players. Ulis was just nothing out there and Joe was an F up waiting to happen.
LMAO, no coach puts up with this on an ongoing basis. Maybe Brock needs to learn to not turnover the ball & make his wide open three's. That's how you stay on the court and win games... and in most programs, play some defense & not slap at the ball as your opponent blows past your Ole' defense.
Joe went on to have a decent D1 career at WV & that Texas school. He played & performed pretty well at those schools. Ulis had a couple of good games, but was lacking confidence primarily due to the way Fran would jerk him around. It will be interesting to see how Fran utilizes BH this year. If Harding gets the Ulis/JoeT/Bowman treatment I'd bet he will look at the transfer portal next year.
Brock is not anything like JoeT or Ulis, so the comparison is kind of pointless. Brock has shown he can distribute the ball, and I don't remember many turnovers, as suggested. JoeT and Ulis were better on defense. Ulis had zero confidence on offense, but his floor game was not bad. JoeT was just too erratic, and made too many stupid mistakes, which offset much of the good things he did. I think Brock can fit into this team very well, because he will be surrounded by guys who can score, and facilitating scoring is the strongest part of his game. I hope he has added some strength to play better defense, and shoots the ball with a little more confidence. I am waiting to see Thelwell play before I can say which should get more minutes at PG. Thelwell has proven that he can lead his team to Ws, which is really what you need most from your floor leader.
Almost any player that consistently attacks the basket off the dribble will have a couple turnovers a game. The ones who don't aren't playing college long. Most coaches don't worry about it as long as long they're making good things happen most of the time.
Fran has a history of reacting emotionally, and I would say irrationally, to certain players turnovers while generally being ok with it from other players.
Yes, Fran typically puts his pg's in his doghouse. It would not surprise me if Dix is the starting pg by mid year.
So, some of you "LukaDuka" and others that believe Brock is a turnover machine. LOL Let's look at the statistics, let's go with Mike Gesell, as a freshman, had a turnover for every 14.4 minutes played and a assist to turnover ratio of 1.5. Another example, Joe Toussaint, as a freshmen at Iowa he averaged a turnover every 9 minutes of play, and had an assist to turnover ratio of 1.5. Next, Jordan Bohannan, as a freshmen he averaged a turnover for every 13 minutes of play and had an assist to turnover ratio of 2.3. Some still think Joe was the best point guard Iowa as ever had.
Compare those 3 to Brock Harding who averaged a turnover for every 14 minutes of play and had a assist to turnover ratio of 3.4 averaging just under 11 minutes a game and playing arguable faster then either Gesell or Bohannan and maybe faster the Joe. The turnovers per minutes played were quite similar wouldn't you say, but Brock is a better facilitator looking at the assist to turnover ratio.
Now Mike, Jordan and Joe averaged more points then Brock, but Brock also played quite a bit less then all 3 of them as a freshmen and still averaged 3.4 point per game .
Another thing I'd like to say, Iowa's defense allowed 75 points a game against the 34 opponents they played last year. Saying Brock plays poor defense is laughable at best as there were others on last years team that were far worse playing defense and were more responsible for allowing that number then the defensive play of Harding, but continue to live in denial and ignore the possibility that Brock could become the best point guard Iowa has had under Fran at Iowa.
Compare those 3 to Brock Harding who averaged a turnover for every 14 minutes of play and had a assist to turnover ratio of 3.4 averaging just under 11 minutes a game and playing arguable faster then either Gesell or Bohannan and maybe faster the Joe. The turnovers per minutes played were quite similar wouldn't you say, but Brock is a better facilitator looking at the assist to turnover ratio.
Now Mike, Jordan and Joe averaged more points then Brock, but Brock also played quite a bit less then all 3 of them as a freshmen and still averaged 3.4 point per game .
Another thing I'd like to say, Iowa's defense allowed 75 points a game against the 34 opponents they played last year. Saying Brock plays poor defense is laughable at best as there were others on last years team that were far worse playing defense and were more responsible for allowing that number then the defensive play of Harding, but continue to live in denial and ignore the possibility that Brock could become the best point guard Iowa has had under Fran at Iowa.
Brock is a decent basketball player, just not the 2nd coming of Pete Maravich. But he'd be a stud at St. Ambrose.
And to shed some light on his defense, guess who teams specifically target when Brock enters the game.... They know they can either post him up or worse, blow past him and put Owen in a position to foul. Let's see how he does against the Clones. If he can hold his own in that game (it is in Iowa City this year) that will set the tone for the rest of the season. This game is played later in the year, hopefully we see more before this game is played.
Check the highlights of the clone game last year & there are two examples of his defense. The first half ISU guard (No.1) easily took him to the rim. The 2nd half another guard went past him as he tried unsuccessfully to swipe the ball away from behind. A microcosm of his D. He has been a liability on defense (as many of Fran's players are, incl JBo). If he (&Fran) can fix this, he could be a better asset. Can he? Will he? Remains to be seen.
Also needs to be able to knock down open three's.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore/_/gameId/401575447
him always saying he will staple his nut sack to the floor is pretty hilarious
I am a mostly positive person on Brock. You are right about turnovers. Brock is not turnover prone, as I also pointed out in much less detail. You are also right that he was not as bad on defense as at least Patrick and Krikke. I think I would rate in him in the next tier of not-great defenders along with Payton. I think/hope the combo of Brock and Thelwell is good, because if they are, I think Iowa is going to greatly exceed what most talking heads are predicting.
He needs to be better. Yes, PMAC & Krikke were bad. But defense starts with good on the ball defense, which the pg can be on an island. If the pg's defense breaks down & his player is consistently getting by him, this puts the others in a position of having to cover for him. They get exposed due to needing to rotate and cover for Ole' pg defense & it looks bad for everyone.
If you've ever played the game for any kind of defensive minded coach, the first words out of the coaches mouth is "STOP THE BALL" This is the fundamental first step in playing any kind of defense. BH was not great at stopping the ball. Just sayin
Exaggerating Brock's defensive deficiency, but you are right about stopping the ball. I put Brock and Payton in the next step up from Krikke and Patrick. Neither stops the ball consistently, but neither is awful on defense. Brock at least does give good effort, and has decent quickness. I think he will be stronger and better this year, but we will see soon.
Ok, Luka, please tell me that every point guard in the conference except Brock plays defense like you believe it should be played and does it 100% of the time while on the court, never being out of position, never making a mistake, never being bumped off a play from a screener. Give me a name of someone that will be playing this year that you believe fits that belief of yours. Get back with me after you spend the rest of your life finding that player....
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Please.... you're going off the deep end. Did you forget your meds again?
Purdue & MSU always has hardnosed defensive pg's. And BH will struggle against the likes of Illinois, Rutgers, UCLA, Oregon & USC for sure. Now he'll look fantastic against Texas A&M Commerce, Rider, So. Dakota, So. Carolina Upstate (who the F are these guys).
He'll get some steals while taking risks/gambling on defense & you'll get your little willy hard from that. But offenses will make him pay more often than he succeeds on defense. He just needs to be more fundamental, keep his position in front of the ball & be opportunistic when it comes his way.
He may get 10+ assists against some of the aforementioned sisters of the poor. But he's not the savior you continue to put on a pedestal. As we've discussed before, it's admirable you stick up for your hometown hero & he deserves the praise for his HS accomplishments. I'm sure he's an upstanding young man. He's a role player. I'll be happy if he averages 8 pts & 5 assists with minimal turnovers. That would be a nice jump for him.
Nice answer but you skirted my question as I knew you would, probably because you can't answer it. I get it, you don't believe that he can be as good as I am making him out to be. In your world he's too small to be the point guard that leads Iowa to somewhere that Iowa basketball hasn't been in 25 years. That's ok. One of 2 things will be true, either Brock will change your opinion of him by his actions on the court or you will continue to accuse him of being overrated even if he's producing great numbers, Here's hoping Harding's play not only annoys the hell out of you. but the 30 some opponents Iowa plays this year, it would give me great pleasure to see that.
I still stand by my prediction that he will surpass Mile Gesell's assist record of 205 assists this year and if not, he will come very close to it. 18 days until the 1st exhibition game and 28 days until the 1st regular game of the season. Enjoy the outcome if you can!
You’d be hard pressed to find anyone that played well against ISU last year. Dix was awful. Hardly a good example.
It's a test of his fortitude. ISU plays hard pressing defense. If he can handle their pressure, he can handle most Big10 defense's. But I specifically called out two defensive plays against ISU where he was burned & was a prime example of him blowing his defensive assignment by not keeping his player in front of him.
You're question was rhetorical in nature and there is no pg that "NEVER NEVER, EVER, NEVER" makes mistakes. I answered other programs have better overall pg's than BH. Believe it or not.
And I'm a Hawkeye fan through & through. If BH succeeds, I will cheer him on as hard as anyone. But I will be objective & not an overzealous jock sniffing hero worshipping obnoxious over the top chest thumping neanderthal that faints every time he jogs past your driveway..... grandpa.
You're just like the republican candidate, afraid to answer the original question, just add an example of 2 miscue from a freshman that at the time was playing in his 9th game as a Hawkeye. How convenient!
What I asked of you that you can't answer and will skirt the issue until you're blue in the face. Answer the question, is there going to be in your opinion a point guard that will play in the BIG that will play as you say "STOP THE BALL" defense every minute they play on the court without any mistakes whatsoever.
I say there's no such animal, prove me wrong, your attacks on Brock are going to end soon, you're going to be faced with the reality that Harding is indeed MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better then you could ever imagine. It sucks to be you doesn't it?
Republicans do answer what Kamala never gets asked, idiot. There has never been a worse candidate in the history of the U.S. presidential election than Kamala. That's saying a lot after Biden's dementia. The most unqualified person ever. She's left of left, marxist / socialist, borderline communist.
You've exposed yourself enough with this rhetoric. No one is perfect in any aspect. So to answer your stupid question, no there is not anyone playing the game at any level, NBA included that will stop the ball every time. I'm not attacking BH as much as I'm pointing out his flaws which you cannot or refuse to see. For F's sake, pull up your depends & go to bed.
Nice to see your political takes are hilarious. Don’t bring up the NBA, there’s no way your Breitbart loving ass ever watches it.
An early season road game in a very tough environment for a freshman that got limited play. Not a great sample size and not really indicative of his performance in the Big. He’s never going to be a plus defender, but he can be disruptive with his quick hands and IQ. He will be a better defender this year with added strength and experience.
Not trying to be argumentative, but those two plays are exactly how he played defense most of the year. Gambling and out of position. I really hope he corrects this & plays well this year. But I think Fran will have him on a short leash as he's mentioned he likes having Dix as an option at pg.
Brock last night:
34 minutes (of 40 possible)
3-6 (50%) from 3
5-9 (56%) from 2
.................................
8-15 (53%) Overall shooting
0-0 FTs
19 Points
5 Assists
4 Steals
1 Rebound
0 Blocks
34 minutes (of 40 possible)
3-6 (50%) from 3
5-9 (56%) from 2
.................................
8-15 (53%) Overall shooting
0-0 FTs
19 Points
5 Assists
4 Steals
1 Rebound
0 Blocks
Brock Harding:
"Ever since the summer, the coaches and all the guys on the team have just been telling me to be confident in what I do. They know I’m a point guard that gets people the ball in open spots, can find shooters, find myself if I need to. They’ve been preaching to me to be confident in my abilities. And as the season’s gone on, I feel like I’ve gotten more comfortable out there.”
"Ever since the summer, the coaches and all the guys on the team have just been telling me to be confident in what I do. They know I’m a point guard that gets people the ball in open spots, can find shooters, find myself if I need to. They’ve been preaching to me to be confident in my abilities. And as the season’s gone on, I feel like I’ve gotten more comfortable out there.”
Brock had just one turnover last night.
His other stats in last night's 110-77 win over USC Upstate:
29 minutes
2-5 (40%) from three
7-8 (88%) from two
..............................................
9-13 (69%) Overall shooting
0-0 FTs
20 Points
10 Assists
4 Steals
3 Rebounds
1 Block
His other stats in last night's 110-77 win over USC Upstate:
29 minutes
2-5 (40%) from three
7-8 (88%) from two
..............................................
9-13 (69%) Overall shooting
0-0 FTs
20 Points
10 Assists
4 Steals
3 Rebounds
1 Block
I really like Bardo and he is one announcer that has played in Carver and has respect for Iowa and it's basketball history.
Anyone that believes that must have been born in the 2000's Ever heard of Ronnie Lester? Or Andre Woolridge? BJ Armstrong? Dean Oliver? Jeff Horner? Mike Gesell? Jordan Bohannon? I would rate all of them above Joe, who was a hard worker, but certainly not a great PG.
Once again it appears that outside voices all like our talent more than our own fans do.
BirdistheWord
HB Legend
Who was the color commentator last night. He wasn’t terrible but he was very repetitive at times.
Jordan Taylor....point guard at Wisconsin about 12 years ago....a relative newbie to BTN....
