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Can a Boring Old ‘G’ Still Hang with the LBTQIAs?

NoleATL

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This is kind of how we feel, lol... Let everyone fight for their own thing.

Twenty years ago, I was a rare gay teen at Pride. Now, I’m not even sure I count as queer.
By Ben Kawaller
June 24, 2023
https://www.thefp.com/p/boring-old-gay-man-meets-lgbtqia-at-pride#
My first Pride parade was around the year 2000, when I was 15. My parents and I marched with PFLAG—Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays—a now quaint-sounding organization my folks joined after I came out, to help my mother accept the idea that her son would die of AIDS.
I was hoping, of course, that I would meet some boy at the parade. Sadly, no such person materialized, and the only member of the family to turn any heads at this thing was my bearded, hirsute father, who, if that’s your type, is an absolute knockout.
Things have changed a great deal since those Clinton–Bush years.

Earlier this month I strolled around the L.A. Pride parade in Hollywood. There I met a gay eleven-year-old boy who had to contend not with being routinely bullied, but with the fact that the two other gay boys in his class were dating each other and not him (and who’s to say which is worse, really?). I met a whole slew of gay-looking girls who identified as everything from queer to lesbian to trans, and who very politely tolerated my interrogations on everything from their pronouns to their chest-bindings. I met a ten-year-old who told me she was nonbinary and pansexual. Or rather, they were nonbinary and pansexual.

I felt approximately 90. It’s not like the various identities comprising “LGBTQ+” are totally new to me, but at the end of the day I’m just a boring old G who came of age at a time when most of these labels had yet to be invented. Walking around Pride, I wondered if these new letters are a reflection of immutable characteristics—remember born this way?—or rather, a new way of categorizing oneself based on aesthetics—a kind of performance.

Whereas I don’t think of homosexuality as a performance. Sure, it’s a showstopper when I practice it, but it has nothing to do with my hair color or my clothes.

I had this thought, while talking to a 25-year-old lesbian who was still “figuring out” her gender identity: there’s a tribe out there that plays a game, an optional way of thinking about oneself, called “gender,” and the opt-in nature of this game is reflected in the tribe’s own language. For instance, GLSEN—once the Gay, Lesbian & Straight Education Network, now just a thing called GLSEN—proclaims that “Everyone gets to decide their gender identity for themselves and this designation can also change over time.” Can anyone imagine such a thing being said about sexual orientation? It must also come as a surprise to people with gender dysphoria that their internal sense of gender is a choice.

I wonder what our fellow citizens think of all of this. Most Americans supported gay rights when it meant equal rights. In 2015, the year gay marriage was legalized across the country, 57 percent said they were in favor of it, and last year, 71 percent of Americans said they believed same-sex relationships were morally acceptable. But now there’s a backlash to gay rights, and I wonder if it’s rooted in Americans’ sense that something more than “love is love” is going on here. A recent Gallup poll shows a seven-point overall drop in Americans’ belief that same-sex relationships are morally acceptable—it’s down to 64 percent. The drop is larger among Republicans (56 percent to 41 percent), but holds for Democrats too: we were at 85 percent support last year; now we’re at 79 percent.

Is this so surprising? If the gay activism I grew up with was about securing equal rights, LGBTQ+ activism looks more like a cultural project aimed at reforming our ideas about gender and sexuality. It also doesn’t seem to be able to help itself from looking absurd: according to Google, we’re now a community that can be described as LGBTQQIP2SAA. Hell, that makes mewant to cancel gay marriage.

All of which is to say, I have become a crabby gay picking apart the reality that people ten or twenty years younger than me take for granted. And I wonder, if I were growing up now, if any of these letters would speak to me. When I was 15, I dyed my hair and wore lip gloss and flared jeans. When I was younger than that, I’d stroll around in my mother’s nightgown. I still enjoy the womanly feeling I get when I put on a dress; I am as able as the next homo to tap into my femininity. Does that make me “genderqueer”? According to the rules of this game, it does if I want it to. But do I? Of course not: I’m nearly 40.

But once I was a teenager who ached and pined and wrote awful poetry and sometimes wore makeup and wanted very badly to be a different, better version of himself. I wonder what place that kid would find for himself if he lived in this new world. I’d like to think he could happily conceive of himself as a gay boy. . . but who can say? At the very least, I’d hope he’d have a better shot at finding a boyfriend at Pride.

 
The Trans stuff is going to bone the gays, and not in a good way. I can’t imagine an outcry over rainbow merch 10 years ago.
Best to leave it to the actual doctors, counselors, and patients. But, it inflames the stupid, so the GQP is going to bone away versus running on real issues that affect people.
 
Best to leave it to the actual doctors, counselors, and patients. But, it inflames the stupid, so the GQP is going to bone away versus running on real issues that affect people.
Democrats insist on dying on the worst hills in the debate. The sports stuff, birthing person, and treatment of children are easy wins and allow transphobic people a reasonable starting position, which emboldens them.

Somehow it’s no longer a career killer to openly call trans people ‘mentally-I’ll’
 
This is kind of how we feel, lol... Let everyone fight for their own thing.

Twenty years ago, I was a rare gay teen at Pride. Now, I’m not even sure I count as queer.
By Ben Kawaller
June 24, 2023
https://www.thefp.com/p/boring-old-gay-man-meets-lgbtqia-at-pride#
My first Pride parade was around the year 2000, when I was 15. My parents and I marched with PFLAG—Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays—a now quaint-sounding organization my folks joined after I came out, to help my mother accept the idea that her son would die of AIDS.
I was hoping, of course, that I would meet some boy at the parade. Sadly, no such person materialized, and the only member of the family to turn any heads at this thing was my bearded, hirsute father, who, if that’s your type, is an absolute knockout.
Things have changed a great deal since those Clinton–Bush years.

Earlier this month I strolled around the L.A. Pride parade in Hollywood. There I met a gay eleven-year-old boy who had to contend not with being routinely bullied, but with the fact that the two other gay boys in his class were dating each other and not him (and who’s to say which is worse, really?). I met a whole slew of gay-looking girls who identified as everything from queer to lesbian to trans, and who very politely tolerated my interrogations on everything from their pronouns to their chest-bindings. I met a ten-year-old who told me she was nonbinary and pansexual. Or rather, they were nonbinary and pansexual.

I felt approximately 90. It’s not like the various identities comprising “LGBTQ+” are totally new to me, but at the end of the day I’m just a boring old G who came of age at a time when most of these labels had yet to be invented. Walking around Pride, I wondered if these new letters are a reflection of immutable characteristics—remember born this way?—or rather, a new way of categorizing oneself based on aesthetics—a kind of performance.

Whereas I don’t think of homosexuality as a performance. Sure, it’s a showstopper when I practice it, but it has nothing to do with my hair color or my clothes.

I had this thought, while talking to a 25-year-old lesbian who was still “figuring out” her gender identity: there’s a tribe out there that plays a game, an optional way of thinking about oneself, called “gender,” and the opt-in nature of this game is reflected in the tribe’s own language. For instance, GLSEN—once the Gay, Lesbian & Straight Education Network, now just a thing called GLSEN—proclaims that “Everyone gets to decide their gender identity for themselves and this designation can also change over time.” Can anyone imagine such a thing being said about sexual orientation? It must also come as a surprise to people with gender dysphoria that their internal sense of gender is a choice.

I wonder what our fellow citizens think of all of this. Most Americans supported gay rights when it meant equal rights. In 2015, the year gay marriage was legalized across the country, 57 percent said they were in favor of it, and last year, 71 percent of Americans said they believed same-sex relationships were morally acceptable. But now there’s a backlash to gay rights, and I wonder if it’s rooted in Americans’ sense that something more than “love is love” is going on here. A recent Gallup poll shows a seven-point overall drop in Americans’ belief that same-sex relationships are morally acceptable—it’s down to 64 percent. The drop is larger among Republicans (56 percent to 41 percent), but holds for Democrats too: we were at 85 percent support last year; now we’re at 79 percent.

Is this so surprising? If the gay activism I grew up with was about securing equal rights, LGBTQ+ activism looks more like a cultural project aimed at reforming our ideas about gender and sexuality. It also doesn’t seem to be able to help itself from looking absurd: according to Google, we’re now a community that can be described as LGBTQQIP2SAA. Hell, that makes mewant to cancel gay marriage.

All of which is to say, I have become a crabby gay picking apart the reality that people ten or twenty years younger than me take for granted. And I wonder, if I were growing up now, if any of these letters would speak to me. When I was 15, I dyed my hair and wore lip gloss and flared jeans. When I was younger than that, I’d stroll around in my mother’s nightgown. I still enjoy the womanly feeling I get when I put on a dress; I am as able as the next homo to tap into my femininity. Does that make me “genderqueer”? According to the rules of this game, it does if I want it to. But do I? Of course not: I’m nearly 40.

But once I was a teenager who ached and pined and wrote awful poetry and sometimes wore makeup and wanted very badly to be a different, better version of himself. I wonder what place that kid would find for himself if he lived in this new world. I’d like to think he could happily conceive of himself as a gay boy. . . but who can say? At the very least, I’d hope he’d have a better shot at finding a boyfriend at Pride.

I have always thought that the older gay people would be coming out against all this wildness in that culture. A lot of the gay people that have been accepted in society now are probably more conservative as they get older so I assume what they saw as their thing being turned into what it is now changes their views somewhat on the “cause” as the article explained.
 
Democrats insist on dying on the worst hills in the debate. The sports stuff, birthing person, and treatment of children are easy wins and allow transphobic people a reasonable starting position, which emboldens them.

Somehow it’s no longer a career killer to openly call trans people ‘mentally-I’ll’
It’s certainly interesting to see some of the people who opened the door wanting to close it behind themselves because the new things aren’t for them.
 
Democrats insist on dying on the worst hills in the debate. The sports stuff, birthing person, and treatment of children are easy wins and allow transphobic people a reasonable starting position, which emboldens them.

Somehow it’s no longer a career killer to openly call trans people ‘mentally-I’ll’
I agree. And I'd add the images of the parades that have been out the last couple days. It doesn't help your cause with middle America to have pics of naked people in front of children.

Obviously most guys are decent people like anyone else but those on the fence of acceptance won't like that kind of stuff.
 
It’s certainly interesting to see some of the people who opened the door wanting to close it behind themselves because the new things aren’t for them.
I was kinda surprised to see when the Lesbian vs Trans rift came to light and when Canada's PM caught heat from the community for using the 2SLGBTQQIA+ acronym.
 
It’s certainly interesting to see some of the people who opened the door wanting to close it behind themselves because the new things aren’t for them.

I strongly disagree. The point is that gay rights is important and rational, and the tide had turned culturally. Gender identity is not rational, flies in the face of progressive ideology that says gender roles are outdated artificial social constructs that should be ignored, and by lumping it in with the gay rights movement it is damaging that movement.

Guys like the OP fought long and hard to establish equality, and now the gender movement is damaging his hard earned rights.

Liberals today are abandoning long established principles, and sneering at those of us who want to stick to those principles.
 
This is kind of how we feel, lol... Let everyone fight for their own thing.

Twenty years ago, I was a rare gay teen at Pride. Now, I’m not even sure I count as queer.
By Ben Kawaller
June 24, 2023
https://www.thefp.com/p/boring-old-gay-man-meets-lgbtqia-at-pride#
My first Pride parade was around the year 2000, when I was 15. My parents and I marched with PFLAG—Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays—a now quaint-sounding organization my folks joined after I came out, to help my mother accept the idea that her son would die of AIDS.
I was hoping, of course, that I would meet some boy at the parade. Sadly, no such person materialized, and the only member of the family to turn any heads at this thing was my bearded, hirsute father, who, if that’s your type, is an absolute knockout.
Things have changed a great deal since those Clinton–Bush years.

Earlier this month I strolled around the L.A. Pride parade in Hollywood. There I met a gay eleven-year-old boy who had to contend not with being routinely bullied, but with the fact that the two other gay boys in his class were dating each other and not him (and who’s to say which is worse, really?). I met a whole slew of gay-looking girls who identified as everything from queer to lesbian to trans, and who very politely tolerated my interrogations on everything from their pronouns to their chest-bindings. I met a ten-year-old who told me she was nonbinary and pansexual. Or rather, they were nonbinary and pansexual.

I felt approximately 90. It’s not like the various identities comprising “LGBTQ+” are totally new to me, but at the end of the day I’m just a boring old G who came of age at a time when most of these labels had yet to be invented. Walking around Pride, I wondered if these new letters are a reflection of immutable characteristics—remember born this way?—or rather, a new way of categorizing oneself based on aesthetics—a kind of performance.

Whereas I don’t think of homosexuality as a performance. Sure, it’s a showstopper when I practice it, but it has nothing to do with my hair color or my clothes.

I had this thought, while talking to a 25-year-old lesbian who was still “figuring out” her gender identity: there’s a tribe out there that plays a game, an optional way of thinking about oneself, called “gender,” and the opt-in nature of this game is reflected in the tribe’s own language. For instance, GLSEN—once the Gay, Lesbian & Straight Education Network, now just a thing called GLSEN—proclaims that “Everyone gets to decide their gender identity for themselves and this designation can also change over time.” Can anyone imagine such a thing being said about sexual orientation? It must also come as a surprise to people with gender dysphoria that their internal sense of gender is a choice.

I wonder what our fellow citizens think of all of this. Most Americans supported gay rights when it meant equal rights. In 2015, the year gay marriage was legalized across the country, 57 percent said they were in favor of it, and last year, 71 percent of Americans said they believed same-sex relationships were morally acceptable. But now there’s a backlash to gay rights, and I wonder if it’s rooted in Americans’ sense that something more than “love is love” is going on here. A recent Gallup poll shows a seven-point overall drop in Americans’ belief that same-sex relationships are morally acceptable—it’s down to 64 percent. The drop is larger among Republicans (56 percent to 41 percent), but holds for Democrats too: we were at 85 percent support last year; now we’re at 79 percent.

Is this so surprising? If the gay activism I grew up with was about securing equal rights, LGBTQ+ activism looks more like a cultural project aimed at reforming our ideas about gender and sexuality. It also doesn’t seem to be able to help itself from looking absurd: according to Google, we’re now a community that can be described as LGBTQQIP2SAA. Hell, that makes mewant to cancel gay marriage.

All of which is to say, I have become a crabby gay picking apart the reality that people ten or twenty years younger than me take for granted. And I wonder, if I were growing up now, if any of these letters would speak to me. When I was 15, I dyed my hair and wore lip gloss and flared jeans. When I was younger than that, I’d stroll around in my mother’s nightgown. I still enjoy the womanly feeling I get when I put on a dress; I am as able as the next homo to tap into my femininity. Does that make me “genderqueer”? According to the rules of this game, it does if I want it to. But do I? Of course not: I’m nearly 40.

But once I was a teenager who ached and pined and wrote awful poetry and sometimes wore makeup and wanted very badly to be a different, better version of himself. I wonder what place that kid would find for himself if he lived in this new world. I’d like to think he could happily conceive of himself as a gay boy. . . but who can say? At the very least, I’d hope he’d have a better shot at finding a boyfriend at Pride.

Interesting article, thanks for sharing.

I think this stems from the idea that you are whoever and whatever you say you are and that can change at any time.

Heck, I heard the term transmaxxing from 2 patients in the past week. That is crazy stuff and is contrary to those who say trust the doctors. These people intentionally fool the doctors.

At some point, I the the lgbtq community is going to have to decide what they deem acceptable vs what is too extreme. Do you think this would be good?
 
IMHO

This is not limited to one group in the country as a whole. It is the generation of people and their way of expressing themselves. Whether it is the "alphabet" community, MeToo, Book banning or any other community you can think of it is basically a version of the 60's all over again. It is the societal pendulum swinging the other way as young react how their parents acted and how they perceive society reacts to them. Not saying it is wrong or right for the different groups to act this way only that its not limited to one group.
 
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I strongly disagree. The point is that gay rights is important and rational, and the tide had turned culturally. Gender identity is not rational, flies in the face of progressive ideology that says gender roles are outdated artificial social constructs that should be ignored, and by lumping it in with the gay rights movement it is damaging that movement.

Guys like the OP fought long and hard to establish equality, and now the gender movement is damaging his hard earned rights.

Liberals today are abandoning long established principles, and sneering at those of us who want to stick to those principles.
Oh, you strongly disagree? Well I double dog disagree!

And man, this must be the first time in history that "Liberals today are abandoning long established principles, and sneering at those of us who want to stick to those principles." Ususally liberals are so conservative.
 
I recently went to a pride/drag show thing. It was a pretty chill environment, but reminded me a bit of the time I went to the My Little Pony convention. I personally find it a bit esoteric.
 
Oh, you strongly disagree? Well I double dog disagree!

And man, this must be the first time in history that "Liberals today are abandoning long established principles, and sneering at those of us who want to stick to those principles." Ususally liberals are so conservative.
I think liberals need to be realists about what’s happening. Conservatives are using the trans stuff to get elected, and then reducing rights for less controversial groups. You’ve got to get elected to do anything.
 
I think liberals need to be realists about what’s happening. Conservatives are using the trans stuff to get elected, and then reducing rights for less controversial groups. You’ve got to get elected to do anything.
In both parties, those who shout the loudest, who are the most extreme, have outsized influence. The left got pulled in too deep, too quick, on trans/gender issues and put themselves in a weaker position overall because of it.
 
This is kind of how we feel, lol... Let everyone fight for their own thing.

Twenty years ago, I was a rare gay teen at Pride. Now, I’m not even sure I count as queer.
By Ben Kawaller
June 24, 2023
https://www.thefp.com/p/boring-old-gay-man-meets-lgbtqia-at-pride#
My first Pride parade was around the year 2000, when I was 15. My parents and I marched with PFLAG—Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays—a now quaint-sounding organization my folks joined after I came out, to help my mother accept the idea that her son would die of AIDS.
I was hoping, of course, that I would meet some boy at the parade. Sadly, no such person materialized, and the only member of the family to turn any heads at this thing was my bearded, hirsute father, who, if that’s your type, is an absolute knockout.
Things have changed a great deal since those Clinton–Bush years.

Earlier this month I strolled around the L.A. Pride parade in Hollywood. There I met a gay eleven-year-old boy who had to contend not with being routinely bullied, but with the fact that the two other gay boys in his class were dating each other and not him (and who’s to say which is worse, really?). I met a whole slew of gay-looking girls who identified as everything from queer to lesbian to trans, and who very politely tolerated my interrogations on everything from their pronouns to their chest-bindings. I met a ten-year-old who told me she was nonbinary and pansexual. Or rather, they were nonbinary and pansexual.

I felt approximately 90. It’s not like the various identities comprising “LGBTQ+” are totally new to me, but at the end of the day I’m just a boring old G who came of age at a time when most of these labels had yet to be invented. Walking around Pride, I wondered if these new letters are a reflection of immutable characteristics—remember born this way?—or rather, a new way of categorizing oneself based on aesthetics—a kind of performance.

Whereas I don’t think of homosexuality as a performance. Sure, it’s a showstopper when I practice it, but it has nothing to do with my hair color or my clothes.

I had this thought, while talking to a 25-year-old lesbian who was still “figuring out” her gender identity: there’s a tribe out there that plays a game, an optional way of thinking about oneself, called “gender,” and the opt-in nature of this game is reflected in the tribe’s own language. For instance, GLSEN—once the Gay, Lesbian & Straight Education Network, now just a thing called GLSEN—proclaims that “Everyone gets to decide their gender identity for themselves and this designation can also change over time.” Can anyone imagine such a thing being said about sexual orientation? It must also come as a surprise to people with gender dysphoria that their internal sense of gender is a choice.

I wonder what our fellow citizens think of all of this. Most Americans supported gay rights when it meant equal rights. In 2015, the year gay marriage was legalized across the country, 57 percent said they were in favor of it, and last year, 71 percent of Americans said they believed same-sex relationships were morally acceptable. But now there’s a backlash to gay rights, and I wonder if it’s rooted in Americans’ sense that something more than “love is love” is going on here. A recent Gallup poll shows a seven-point overall drop in Americans’ belief that same-sex relationships are morally acceptable—it’s down to 64 percent. The drop is larger among Republicans (56 percent to 41 percent), but holds for Democrats too: we were at 85 percent support last year; now we’re at 79 percent.

Is this so surprising? If the gay activism I grew up with was about securing equal rights, LGBTQ+ activism looks more like a cultural project aimed at reforming our ideas about gender and sexuality. It also doesn’t seem to be able to help itself from looking absurd: according to Google, we’re now a community that can be described as LGBTQQIP2SAA. Hell, that makes mewant to cancel gay marriage.

All of which is to say, I have become a crabby gay picking apart the reality that people ten or twenty years younger than me take for granted. And I wonder, if I were growing up now, if any of these letters would speak to me. When I was 15, I dyed my hair and wore lip gloss and flared jeans. When I was younger than that, I’d stroll around in my mother’s nightgown. I still enjoy the womanly feeling I get when I put on a dress; I am as able as the next homo to tap into my femininity. Does that make me “genderqueer”? According to the rules of this game, it does if I want it to. But do I? Of course not: I’m nearly 40.

But once I was a teenager who ached and pined and wrote awful poetry and sometimes wore makeup and wanted very badly to be a different, better version of himself. I wonder what place that kid would find for himself if he lived in this new world. I’d like to think he could happily conceive of himself as a gay boy. . . but who can say? At the very least, I’d hope he’d have a better shot at finding a boyfriend at Pride.

Surprised to see the lessening in the gallop poll of support for same sex relationships. Especially amongst dems. I think we need to remember that a good portion of America doesn't have a college degree and isn't an overly complex thinker.

So perhaps the current focus in the LGBTQ+ community on odd/questionable gender/trans stuff is potentially jeopardizing the most fundamental rights the movement had worked to achieve.

I certainly think there are some issues in reasoning and strategy pertaining to gender/trans end of things I don't agree with, but I wouldn't let that affect my thoughts of anybody's rights. It's a separate thing. Unfortunately a lot of people probably struggle to make this delineation.
 
In both parties, those who shout the loudest, who are the most extreme, have outsized influence. The left got pulled in too deep, too quick, on trans/gender issues and put themselves in a weaker position overall because of it.
Can you give an example of a politician on the left that got pulled too deep into trans/gender issues? Liberals aren't running on trans rights while people like DeSantis have built their entire campaign on taking them away.
 
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I think liberals need to be realists about what’s happening. Conservatives are using the trans stuff to get elected, and then reducing rights for less controversial groups. You’ve got to get elected to do anything.
I'm not sure I understand your point. We should let trans people be marginalize/criminalized because awful people will use it to appeal to other awful people?
That can't really be it, can it?
 
Respect to the OG gays.

The LGBTQIA2S+ community is getting a little crazy if you ask me.



giphy.gif
 
I'm not sure I understand your point. We should let trans people be marginalize/criminalized because awful people will use it to appeal to other awful people?
That can't really be it, can it?
I don’t want either of those things. The best way to prevent that from happening is to concede certain points to win elections.
 
Can you give an example of a politician on the left that got pulled too deep into trans/gender issues? Liberals aren't running on trans rights while people like DeSantis have built their entire campaign on taking them away.
I agree mainstream democratic politicians don't often speak as much or as directly about trans issues as do republicans.

When they do, it's to support. And they won't say anything that crosses their activist wing. They do have Rachel Levine, who supports all the status quo stuff -- that I think is debatable -- related to trans care.

The end result is people largely associating dems with supporting whatever it is LGBTQ is up to.
 
I agree mainstream democratic politicians don't often speak as much or as directly about trans issues as do republicans.

When they do, it's to support. And they won't say anything that crosses their activist wing. They do have Rachel Levine, who supports all the status quo stuff -- that I think is debatable -- related to trans care.

The end result is people largely associating dems with supporting whatever it is LGBTQ is up to.
So basically since Democratic politicians aren't joining in on attacking trans rights they have been too deeply and quickly pulled into supporting trans people?

The left got pulled in too deep, too quick, on trans/gender issues and put themselves in a weaker position overall because of it.
 
I don’t want either of those things. The best way to prevent that from happening is to concede certain points to win elections.
Which of your personal freedoms are you willing to concede?
Which other marginalized groups should we concede rights in order to win?
Should we concede on abortion in order to keep women's heathcare?
 
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Which of your personal freedoms are you willing to concede?
Which other marginalized groups should we concede rights in order to win?
Should we concede on abortion in order to keep women's heathcare?
Waiting until 18 to transition and not allowing people who went through puberty as males to compete in women’s sports isn’t a big ask.

Play the game to win elections. Being self-righteous and out of power doesn’t help.
 
So basically since Democratic politicians aren't joining in on attacking trans rights they have been too deeply and quickly pulled into supporting trans people?

Depends how you see the issue.

While I don't agree with everything the Republicans are saying or doing, I do think there are some questionable viewpoints and demands from the trans movement.

I think the democrats would be stronger if they admitted as much.
 
Waiting until 18 to transition and not allowing people who went through puberty as males to compete in women’s sports isn’t a big ask.

Play the game to win elections. Being self-righteous and out of power doesn’t help.
I doubt those positions are even that rare amongst democrats. They just can't say it.

(somewhat like plenty of republicans biting their tongue when it comes to Trump)
 
Waiting until 18 to transition and not allowing people who went through puberty as males to compete in women’s sports isn’t a big ask.

Play the game to win elections. Being self-righteous and out of power doesn’t help.
Drinking from different water fountains and sitting in a different part of the bus isn't a big ask.
Play the game to win elections.
 
Depends how you see the issue.

While I don't agree with everything the Republicans are saying or doing, I do think there are some questionable viewpoints and demands from the trans movement.

I think the democrats would be stronger if they admitted as much.
What are the questionable viewpoints and demands from the trans movement that you see as harmful to anyone other than the trans individual?
 
I doubt those positions are even that rare amongst democrats. They just can't say it.

(somewhat like plenty of republicans biting their tongue when it comes to Trump)
Republicans know how to play the game. That’s why they’re winning. Republicans in competitive races don’t openly discuss six week abortion bans, but when the time comes they’ll vote for it.

If Trump wasn’t in the picture they might have 60 senators by now.
 
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What are the questionable viewpoints and demands from the trans movement that you see as harmful to anyone other than the trans individual?

Like others have mentioned...

1) Affirming care model and its boundaries. Are we properly, and cautiously enough, vetting kids before receiving hormones, drugs or surgery? What is age appropriate? Lots to debate in here. A half-dozen countries in Europe have restricted affirming care options because of these uncertainties. (there has been a marked rise in cases, and a change in demography, within a short period of time)

2) Trans athletes in sports.

3) Language surrounding gender.
 
Like others have mentioned...

1) Affirming care model and its boundaries. Are we properly, and cautiously enough, vetting kids before receiving hormones, drugs or surgery? What is age appropriate? Lots to debate in here. A half-dozen countries in Europe have restricted affirming care options because of these uncertainties. (there has been a marked rise in cases, and a change in demography, within a short period of time)

2) Trans athletes in sports.

3) Language surrounding gender.
1) How does someone receiving gender affirming care impact anyone other than the individual and their families? This is an issue that should be dealt with by the medical community not politicians trying to score points.

2) Most people agree with limits being set for trans athletes in sports, but IMO this issue has received more attention than it deserves for how infrequently it happens. I'm also concerned about the harm that will be done to girls that are accused of being trans because they look or act more masculine.

3) What language do you have a problem with cis, they/them, pronouns? How does this language harm society as a whole?
 
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