Carl Sagan on the Existence of God
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
- Start date
And you lost me there ……
Not sure where you’re going with that .
you are also correct that I gain my knowledge of God through his inspired word.
I can also reason on what I observe about creation and the benefits of living by the Bible’s counsel. If you choose to make up your own rules on how you think God exists that’s your prerogative. I don’t try to go beyond the things written .
That’s a human mistake . It creates confusion on the true identity of God.
just like believing that God is some kind of mysterious trinity! No where did Christ claim to be equal to God. In fact he admitted the Father was greater Then himself.
John 14:28-You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am.”
This statement by Christ himself proves he acknowledges that he knew God was greater than himself. This destroys any concept of the Trinity belief, of course which you know is the belief that all three figures in the god head or co equal in power, none being greater than the other
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I'm not sure how you ran out of bread-crumbs with that post.
What makes ANYTHING a "He" in our vernacular?
Maybe because I actually believe what the Bible teaches about Him? your human ideas on who his identity is not reliable. You are an imperfect human like me which is why I do not lean on my own understanding !
Proverbs 3:5,-“Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, And do not rely on your own understanding. 6 In all your ways take notice of him, And he will make your paths straight.”
We have no right as humans to make up our own idea who we think God is. He has made his identity clear in his written word. To go beyond that is simply human philosophy.
Why does God need a penis? Make no mistake, the God of Abraham has a penis!
Are you able to detach yourself from the liturgy to realize that you have literally created a super-HUMAN parental male figure? It's patriarchal. It's all about masculinity. If you don't think that your image of God is a MAN, then I challenge you to start referring to God as She, Her, Hers, etc.. Your mental image of God will morph into a human female. You have no other choice. We THINK in language.
Maybe Strumming was inspired by God, and the Iron Age scriveners were the ones who just made stuff up.
What about what God said in Jewel Tree:Fiddy "It's not hard to understand, just follow this simple plan: Follow your heart, your intuition, it will lead you in the right direction"
We're ALL "making it up" as we go along. That is the most abundantly-OBVIOUS truth about the entire concept!
The ancient Abrahamic "He"-God has been shown to be obsolete and archaic in many aspects of contemporary human understanding. Whenever humans can't explain something... then, t's "God's Will." Well, shit! EVERYTHING has ALWAYS been "God's will!" Even what we CAN explain through our practices of science and knowledge... that is ALL "God's Will" playing-itself-out.
I've just become very disillusioned with this male king-version of God that religious people always refer to. It has this ancient liturgy of Kingdoms and how we're all beneath "Him" and so forth. Of course, then you here how God's creation is all perfect. Well, if it's perfect, then what's the problem? Maybe "perfection" is misunderstood. God, to me, is sort of an amalgam of all that is considered "Life."
If Christians end up in hell because Islam is the real truth, they will have horrendous regrets.
Not worth it just to be a Christian.
Muslims believe Christians and Jews are "people of the book" and can be saved. "Allah" just means God in Arabic.
The Big 3 monotheistic religions all teach atheists are going to Hell.
So, being an atheist is clearly a bad choice. The worst.
When you end up in the outer darkness, ask Jesus to save you. He will.
Good luck, friend.
Every practicing Jew I've ever known, and talked with about it, has no concept of "Hell." There's no Underworld where the Horned Man/Reptile/Goat Satan is presiding with imps and demons with pitchforks while poor "souls" burn in pits of fire. That's just imagery created by humans over a thousand(s) years ago. It helps the church keep their people in control.
Jews believe atheists won't get to the world to come, so they believe in a form of Hell.
Jesus taught about Hell dozens of times 2,000 years ago.
Did Jesus Say There is a Hell?
For many people today, the concept of hell is outdated, a relic of the past that has served its purpose and can be safely done away with. But for those who are interested in what Jesus taught, hell cannot be so easily dismissed. In fact, no other biblical figure speaks about hell more often than...
www.christianity.com
Why are you shouting? Are you one of those hell and brimstone preachers?
Let's have a link fight!Jews believe atheists won't get to the world to come, so they believe in a form of Hell.
Jesus taught about Hell dozens of times 2,000 years ago.
Did Jesus Say There is a Hell?
For many people today, the concept of hell is outdated, a relic of the past that has served its purpose and can be safely done away with. But for those who are interested in what Jesus taught, hell cannot be so easily dismissed. In fact, no other biblical figure speaks about hell more often than...www.christianity.com
The Evolving Judeo-Christian Concept of "Hell" from the Ancient World to Today - Brewminate: A Bold Blend of News and Ideas
The abyss of hell. Sandro Botticelli The meaning of hell might have changed over the centuries, but for devout
brewminate.com
Let's have a link fight!
The Evolving Judeo-Christian Concept of "Hell" from the Ancient World to Today - Brewminate: A Bold Blend of News and Ideas
The abyss of hell. Sandro Botticelli The meaning of hell might have changed over the centuries, but for devoutbrewminate.com
Jesus said this. Ask Him to save you if/when you get there.
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
As a Christian, I must admit I have a respect for true atheists for it takes a tremendous amount of belief that all of this is some accident and there is no intelligent design or belief in anything greater than this world. This takes guts and determination to live a life that has no meaning. A belief in no belief. Whoa boy that takes courage!
The agnostics on the other hand, are the ultimate wishy-washy confused nomads of all spiritual life. They admit they believe in something greater but they:
a) Cannot make up their mind what that is
and/or
b) Spend their lifetime acknowledging there is likely something greater but then spend little to no time seeking that answer. In fact, agnostics spend more time denying other peoples’ beliefs than seeking an answer for their own.
B is the worst. For if you are to admit you think there is something greater but do little to nothing about it with the precious time you have on Earth, is a complete and utter logical farce. If there is something greater then it is the ultimate game-changer and that should change the way you approach your life as well as others’ lives. Afterlife, rebirth, reincarnation, miracles, defeating death, etc…. they all change the game.
Therefore, if you are agnostic but put little time and effort into seeking that something is truly greater than this mortal world, are you really agnostic? Maybe just horribly lazy? If you take no action then you may as well declare yourself an atheist and abandon all hope in anything spiritual.
The world is full of these types of people. They will decry your faith as foolish but they will do nothing about their own beliefs. Yet, they will still believe that there may be something greater and a cause for this universe. They need to shit or get off the pot!
So agnostics know and feel something deep in their hearts that there is more, but they waste their lifetime seeking and committing to what that game-changer is. What a pity! They should spend every single waking hour asking themselves why they have that feeling in their gut that there is more. Some do, but they try to make up their own answer. What a fools errand. We all are imperfect and screw up but does it makes sense that we are each entitled to have the right answer for spirituality? No, this makes no sense. We can’t all be right. No one likes to be wrong though.
Oh and what about the deists? Deists are just indecisive and non-commital. They step up to the spiritual buffet of life and get overwhelmed with decisions. At least they go a full step further than the agnostics and know what’s being served.
The agnostics on the other hand, are the ultimate wishy-washy confused nomads of all spiritual life. They admit they believe in something greater but they:
a) Cannot make up their mind what that is
and/or
b) Spend their lifetime acknowledging there is likely something greater but then spend little to no time seeking that answer. In fact, agnostics spend more time denying other peoples’ beliefs than seeking an answer for their own.
B is the worst. For if you are to admit you think there is something greater but do little to nothing about it with the precious time you have on Earth, is a complete and utter logical farce. If there is something greater then it is the ultimate game-changer and that should change the way you approach your life as well as others’ lives. Afterlife, rebirth, reincarnation, miracles, defeating death, etc…. they all change the game.
Therefore, if you are agnostic but put little time and effort into seeking that something is truly greater than this mortal world, are you really agnostic? Maybe just horribly lazy? If you take no action then you may as well declare yourself an atheist and abandon all hope in anything spiritual.
The world is full of these types of people. They will decry your faith as foolish but they will do nothing about their own beliefs. Yet, they will still believe that there may be something greater and a cause for this universe. They need to shit or get off the pot!
So agnostics know and feel something deep in their hearts that there is more, but they waste their lifetime seeking and committing to what that game-changer is. What a pity! They should spend every single waking hour asking themselves why they have that feeling in their gut that there is more. Some do, but they try to make up their own answer. What a fools errand. We all are imperfect and screw up but does it makes sense that we are each entitled to have the right answer for spirituality? No, this makes no sense. We can’t all be right. No one likes to be wrong though.
Oh and what about the deists? Deists are just indecisive and non-commital. They step up to the spiritual buffet of life and get overwhelmed with decisions. At least they go a full step further than the agnostics and know what’s being served.
Well you’ve gone and lost me again . I sure as heck don’t know if you’re making a point here but you sure look like you’re trying hard to make one . You’re not presenting any real evidence or logistical thought , just a bunch of dribble ….
LOL
Posting - without comment - a video of Sagan making sense "smacks of uncertainty, insecurity, and doubt."
Hard to make this sort of thing up.
I had a former friend who was super religious. We got into a discusion regarding god.
i asked him that if someone who was basically a career criminal, maybe some rapes and murders, accepted god on his death bed if god would admit him into heaven. He replied in the affirmative.
i followed up with if an atheist was lived what could be a christianlike life - helped poor people, fed the hungry etc - if he would get into heaven. He replied in the negative.
i responded that i think i’d prefer the company in hell better and wished him well rubbing elbows in heaven with those who were generally bad people, but found it convenient to find god as they were dying.
It's too bad your friend didn't believe in Purgatory. That would be a nice place for both of those examples. 🙂
Right, and the IRS doesn't force you to pay taxes. You go where you choose; home or prison.
The Bible says that faith without works is dead .
James 2:14-Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? 15 If any brothers or sisters are lacking clothing and enough food for the day, 16 yet one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what benefit is it? 17 So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead
also verse 26-Indeed, just as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
Thankfully we’re not the judge and only God can look into a persons heart and judge him . But the Bible clearly says faith without action is useless
and the atheist , well why would he care about heaven? They don’t believe in any sort of higher power . So called heaven would not exist for them .
i never said he would care. Just trying to point out the extreme narcissism of such a god that would punish a good person that lived a more christlike existence then many people who believe because the atheist didnt stroke his/her ego while living
It's really simple man. Do you think God is a male?
And when you talk about evidence? That's the most lacking thing in this entire discussion from religious people. Your entire belief system, everything you're talking about, is lacking any evidence at all. It's entirely faith-based
There is no evidence that Hell exists.
Choosing to believe in Hell is like choosing to believe in Santa's toy factory. Which most grownups don't have any problem rejecting.
So the Bible doesn’t count in your arguement ? Exactly WTH are you basing your pointless babble on? Absolutely nothing but your own whacked out mind?
Let’s be clear again . The Bible does not teach that God punishes people in hell! In fact it doesn’t teach hellfire at all !
James 1:13,14-When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone.”
The teaching of hellfire is a satanic lie and does not represent who God is !
1John 4:8 says God IS LOVE! He doesn’t show love or have love . He IS LOVE. To think aGod of love would punish people eternally in hell is ludicrous.
when the Bible speaks of hell it is simply nothing more than mankind’s common grave.
Lol ok there slick . Pretty sure you just got owned . You haven’t presented one shred of anything related to evidence to back up your whacked out theories .
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