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"Chinese fire drill" - racist, right?

NDallasRuss

HR Legend
Dec 5, 2002
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I was at a conference and the speaker was referencing when they were young and stopped in the road in whatever rural town it was and did a "Chinese fire drill". I was kind of take aback that they would use that phrase.

It's kinda racist to still call it that, isn't it? At the least it seems pretty insensitive.
 
I was at a conference and the speaker was referencing when they were young and stopped in the road in whatever rural town it was and did a "Chinese fire drill". I was kind of take aback that they would use that phrase.

It's kinda racist to still call it that, isn't it? At the least it seems pretty insensitive.
Doesnt seem right, but is there even another name for it? I have only known it as Chinese fire drill.
 
Know your audience. I tell my school kids this all the time.

Just because it is OK to say something to your friends (or in this case when he was younger and back in his hometown) doesn't mean it is OK to say it anywhere, and as you grow up you'll learn why I mean by that.

I'd say, at a "conference"...this guy didn't know his audience.
 
Doesnt seem right, but is there even another name for it? I have only known it as Chinese fire drill.
I was thinking that too.

When used as a metaphor for running around trying to fix something that's gotten screwed up, I get that are other things I can call that. But when used literally for the thing where everyone gets out of the car, runs around it, and then gets back in, I don't think there's another name for it.
 
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Know your audience. I tell my school kids this all the time.

Just because it is OK to say something to your friends (or in this case when he was younger and back in his hometown) doesn't mean it is OK to say it anywhere, and as you grow up you'll learn why I mean by that.

I'd say, at a "conference"...this guy didn't know his audience.
That’s awful advice bud. Someone can record your ass anywhere now. In 4K
 
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Pffft. That’s a reach.
No, not really.

Starting around World War I, the descriptor "Chinese" began to be frequently added to phrases to describe situations that were confusing, incomprehensible and messy.

These included a "Chinese ace," which referred to an incompetent pilot; "Chinese national anthem," to describe an explosion; and "Chinese landing," which was used by pilots to refer to bumpy, dangerous touchdowns because the aircraft had "one wing low" (a cringeworthy joke about what Asian languages sound like that should sound a bit familiar). Interestingly, Chinese landing and the one wing low pun were both so entrenched in military lingo that they were included in the 1944 edition of The Official Guide To The Army Air Forces.

Note how all of the above phrases refer to things that are negative and inferior in some way. It's also important to remember that anti-Asian sentiments had existed in the United States for decades before World War I and that the United States government did everything it could to keep Chinese and other Asian immigrants off American shores. In fact, the Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional Usage traces the first pejorative use of "Chinese" to around 1880.

The 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act prohibited Chinese laborers like the ones who built the Transcontinental Railroad from immigrating to the United States for 10 years, and several other laws that followed were aimed at preventing Chinese people from entering the country. By 1924, these laws had extended to all Asians (a rule that was upheld until the passage of the 1965 Immigration Act).

After the two world wars, "Chinese" continued to be used as a descriptor to indicate things that were hasty, cheap or amateur. The late New York Times columnist William Safire noted in his book I Stand Corrected that in the 1940s and '50s "Chinese home runs" referred to home runs that were either high pop-ups or ones that exited the park just along the foul line. And schoolchildren used to play "Chinese whispers" instead of the game Telephone because the messages would quickly become garbled and lost along the way.

The phrase "Chinese fire drill" became popular once again with the military during the Vietnam War. In fact, several books written by former soldiers after the war used the phrase in their titles or descriptions of combat. In his 1967 book The New Legions, which was sharply critical of the war, Donald Duncan quotes a fellow soldier as saying, "It must have looked like a Chinese Fire Drill back on the river as the shooting started." A veteran quoted in Craig Howes' Voices of the Vietnam POWs also used the phrase while describing a particularly chaotic battle in August 1964. And the mystery writer Michael Wolfe titled his 1986 thriller about Vietnam-era POWs The Chinese Fire Drill.

Aside from the occasional reference to the car prank, the phrase "Chinese fire drill" has mostly faded from everyday use today. Perhaps it is time to rename the 1960s-era prank? Suggestions are welcome in the comments.

 
Pffft. That’s a reach.
Is it? It's not literally how the Chinese or anyone else practice a fire drill. It was originally used to describe a situation where a translational misunderstanding led to an actual drill going awry.
 
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a-school-conducts-a-fire-drill-on-the-national-fire-day-to-improve-the-ability-to-deal-with-fires-in-suzhou-city-east-chinas-jiangsu-province-9-nov-2DGFE3P.jpg
 
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Know your audience. I tell my school kids this all the time.

Just because it is OK to say something to your friends (or in this case when he was younger and back in his hometown) doesn't mean it is OK to say it anywhere, and as you grow up you'll learn why I mean by that.

I'd say, at a "conference"...this guy didn't know his audience.
That's what I thought. I didn't think it's somehow the greatest transgression ever, someone should be fired, etc. I just thought it was a weird and awkward and kinda racist (albeit rather low on the master list of potentially racist things to say) thing to throw out in a speech with a bunch of finance people, that did include Asians.
 
“Mexican Food” is on the clock.

it’s why the Washington Redskins needed to holdout. That was the finger in the dike
 
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No, not really.

Starting around World War I, the descriptor "Chinese" began to be frequently added to phrases to describe situations that were confusing, incomprehensible and messy.

These included a "Chinese ace," which referred to an incompetent pilot; "Chinese national anthem," to describe an explosion; and "Chinese landing," which was used by pilots to refer to bumpy, dangerous touchdowns because the aircraft had "one wing low" (a cringeworthy joke about what Asian languages sound like that should sound a bit familiar). Interestingly, Chinese landing and the one wing low pun were both so entrenched in military lingo that they were included in the 1944 edition of The Official Guide To The Army Air Forces.

Note how all of the above phrases refer to things that are negative and inferior in some way. It's also important to remember that anti-Asian sentiments had existed in the United States for decades before World War I and that the United States government did everything it could to keep Chinese and other Asian immigrants off American shores. In fact, the Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional Usage traces the first pejorative use of "Chinese" to around 1880.

The 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act prohibited Chinese laborers like the ones who built the Transcontinental Railroad from immigrating to the United States for 10 years, and several other laws that followed were aimed at preventing Chinese people from entering the country. By 1924, these laws had extended to all Asians (a rule that was upheld until the passage of the 1965 Immigration Act).

After the two world wars, "Chinese" continued to be used as a descriptor to indicate things that were hasty, cheap or amateur. The late New York Times columnist William Safire noted in his book I Stand Corrected that in the 1940s and '50s "Chinese home runs" referred to home runs that were either high pop-ups or ones that exited the park just along the foul line. And schoolchildren used to play "Chinese whispers" instead of the game Telephone because the messages would quickly become garbled and lost along the way.

The phrase "Chinese fire drill" became popular once again with the military during the Vietnam War. In fact, several books written by former soldiers after the war used the phrase in their titles or descriptions of combat. In his 1967 book The New Legions, which was sharply critical of the war, Donald Duncan quotes a fellow soldier as saying, "It must have looked like a Chinese Fire Drill back on the river as the shooting started." A veteran quoted in Craig Howes' Voices of the VietnamPOWs also used the phrase while describing a particularly chaotic battle in August 1964. And the mystery writer Michael Wolfe titled his 1986 thriller about Vietnam-era POWs The Chinese Fire Drill.


Aside from the occasional reference to the car prank, the phrase "Chinese fire drill" has mostly faded from everyday use today. Perhaps it is time to rename the 1960s-era prank? Suggestions are welcome in the comments.

"Vehicular musical chairs"

There we go.

Doesn't really roll off the tongue though.
 
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No, not really.

Starting around World War I, the descriptor "Chinese" began to be frequently added to phrases to describe situations that were confusing, incomprehensible and messy.

These included a "Chinese ace," which referred to an incompetent pilot; "Chinese national anthem," to describe an explosion; and "Chinese landing," which was used by pilots to refer to bumpy, dangerous touchdowns because the aircraft had "one wing low" (a cringeworthy joke about what Asian languages sound like that should sound a bit familiar). Interestingly, Chinese landing and the one wing low pun were both so entrenched in military lingo that they were included in the 1944 edition of The Official Guide To The Army Air Forces.

Note how all of the above phrases refer to things that are negative and inferior in some way. It's also important to remember that anti-Asian sentiments had existed in the United States for decades before World War I and that the United States government did everything it could to keep Chinese and other Asian immigrants off American shores. In fact, the Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional Usage traces the first pejorative use of "Chinese" to around 1880.

The 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act prohibited Chinese laborers like the ones who built the Transcontinental Railroad from immigrating to the United States for 10 years, and several other laws that followed were aimed at preventing Chinese people from entering the country. By 1924, these laws had extended to all Asians (a rule that was upheld until the passage of the 1965 Immigration Act).

After the two world wars, "Chinese" continued to be used as a descriptor to indicate things that were hasty, cheap or amateur. The late New York Times columnist William Safire noted in his book I Stand Corrected that in the 1940s and '50s "Chinese home runs" referred to home runs that were either high pop-ups or ones that exited the park just along the foul line. And schoolchildren used to play "Chinese whispers" instead of the game Telephone because the messages would quickly become garbled and lost along the way.

The phrase "Chinese fire drill" became popular once again with the military during the Vietnam War. In fact, several books written by former soldiers after the war used the phrase in their titles or descriptions of combat. In his 1967 book The New Legions, which was sharply critical of the war, Donald Duncan quotes a fellow soldier as saying, "It must have looked like a Chinese Fire Drill back on the river as the shooting started." A veteran quoted in Craig Howes' Voices of the VietnamPOWs also used the phrase while describing a particularly chaotic battle in August 1964. And the mystery writer Michael Wolfe titled his 1986 thriller about Vietnam-era POWs The Chinese Fire Drill.


Aside from the occasional reference to the car prank, the phrase "Chinese fire drill" has mostly faded from everyday use today. Perhaps it is time to rename the 1960s-era prank? Suggestions are welcome in the comments.

Meh whatever. Don’t see it as a race thing. More about a country. A country, mind you, that’s on a mission to destroy our influence worldwide. Let’s not soften ourselves up to avoid offending them.
 
“Mexican Food” is on the clock.

it’s why the Washington Redskins needed to holdout. That was the finger in the dike
Can you articulate what negative connotation people are exemplifying when they refer to something as "Mexican food?"

Because the NPR article very clearly explains the issue with the various incarnations of "Chinese ________":

After the two world wars, "Chinese" continued to be used as a descriptor to indicate things that were hasty, cheap or amateur. The late New York Times columnist William Safire noted in his book I Stand Corrected that in the 1940s and '50s "Chinese home runs" referred to home runs that were either high pop-ups or ones that exited the park just along the foul line. And schoolchildren used to play "Chinese whispers" instead of the game Telephone because the messages would quickly become garbled and lost along the way.
 
That's what I thought. I didn't think it's somehow the greatest transgression ever, someone should be fired, etc. I just thought it was a weird and awkward and kinda racist (albeit rather low on the master list of potentially racist things to say) thing to throw out in a speech with a bunch of finance people, that did include Asians.

Yeah, it isn't the worst thing I've ever heard either...but one has to understand that they can say something that they consider completely unoffending - with absolutely no ill will whatsoever intended - may actually offend someone (in the context of being around what I would describe as "complete strangers" if that makes sense).

So...know your audience.
 
Not racist at all. People really need to quit looking for stuff to get upset over. I work with someone that says retard for sure weekly and usually multiple times per week. It used to be used all the time, you don't hear it so much anymore, but nothing people should get worked up over.
 
Not racist at all. People really need to quit looking for stuff to get upset over. I work with someone that says retard for sure weekly and usually multiple times per week. It used to be used all the time, you don't hear it so much anymore, but nothing people should get worked up over.
I love how easy it is for those not in the group being disparaged to say it's nothing to "get worked up over."
 
I was at a conference and the speaker was referencing when they were young and stopped in the road in whatever rural town it was and did a "Chinese fire drill". I was kind of take aback that they would use that phrase.

It's kinda racist to still call it that, isn't it? At the least it seems pretty insensitive.
Come on man!

No
 
I love how easy it is for those not in the group being disparaged to say it's nothing to "get worked up over."
Again, you pontificate when the definition has not been met. It’s no more racist than the cheering of Russians dying in Ukraine.
 
Again, you pontificate when the definition has not been met. It’s no more racist than the cheering of Russians dying in Ukraine.
Sure buddy.

I'm not pontificating at all, and in the scheme of things, calling something a "Chinese Fire Drill" is very low on the racist pole.

But it is textbook racism, period. Whether you care to admit it or not.
 
Not racist at all. People really need to quit looking for stuff to get upset over. I work with someone that says retard for sure weekly and usually multiple times per week. It used to be used all the time, you don't hear it so much anymore, but nothing people should get worked up over.
i'll be sure to tell my coworker who has an intellectually disabled brother to stop looking for stuff to get angry over. if you are actively using retard in '22 you suck and lack compassion/empathy.
 
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Sure buddy.

I'm not pontificating at all, and in the scheme of things, calling something a "Chinese Fire Drill" is very low on the racist pole.

But it is textbook racism, period. Whether you care to admit it or not.
Not racist. No Japanese fire drill because the Japanese don’t fit the mold. Same race, or no?? Racist or no? Where did you go to school?
 
I agree with the "know your audience" approach.

csb: While waiting in the parking lot at one of the dorms in Ames for my niece to go out to dinner with our family, we watched a car full of Asian students stop in the parking lot, several get out and change seats, close the car doors and drive off again. I turned to my wife and said I never thought I would see a real life Chinese fire drill, but I think we just witnessed one. She replied "no, just no" as she often does when I make a statement like this.

That is all I have to contribute to this discussion.
 
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Not racist. No Japanese fire drill because the Japanese don’t fit the mold. Same race, or no?? Racist or no? Where did you go to school?
Reading.
Is.
Fundamental:

Note how all of the above phrases refer to things that are negative and inferior in some way. It's also important to remember that anti-Asian sentiments had existed in the United States for decades before World War I
 
Reading.
Is.
Fundamental:

Note how all of the above phrases refer to things that are negative and inferior in some way. It's also important to remember that anti-Asian sentiments had existed in the United States for decades before World War I
That’s fantastic information. Every bit of it is irrelevant to the OPs question. Simple question, and you continue to try making a point where a point cannot be made. It is not racist to talk about a country. Never will be. Sorry
 
You have your three stock comments locked & loaded. Rinse & repeat. Never bring anything new to the table.
The truth cannot be controversial.

redskins was something that should have been changed. The bad part is the losers that hate life and only point of existing is find something to be outraged over would surely move on to the next thing.
 
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Other words or phrases commonly used that are considered racist. Some I knew, some surprised me.

Jipped or Gyped
Jerry rigged
Sold down the river
Shyster
Uppity
Grandfathered in
Master bedroom
Cakewalk
Sold down the river
Chink in the armor
Call a spade a spade
Black Sheep
Blacklist
Off the reservation
Spirit Animal
Hip hip hooray
Eenie meenie miney moe
Long time no see
No can do
 
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