Clark vs Pistol Stats Normalized

[General Tso]

I'll start with saying that I believe Clark and Pistol's stats should not be compared and should be celebrated individually. That said, I get the media likes to find things to stoke and break. And I get tired of the same old asterisks getting thrown out to discredit Clark's record. So, some quick fun math can show Clark would have beaten Pistol's record by even more (even without the three point line):
- even with playing one less year, Pistol took 573 more shots and 262 more free throws than Clark!! I've heard the shots per game mentioned, but total shots should be compared to total points scored.
- If you apply Clark's FG% to Pistol's total field goal attempts and counted every make as a 2 pointer, Clark would have scored 2947 points from field goals.
- if you apply Clark's free throw percentage to Pistol's free attempts, Clark would have scored 986 points from free throws
- added together, Clark would currently have 3933 total points if she attempted as many shots and free throws as Pistol at her current make percentages and only counted all field goals as 2, removing the 3 pointer benefit. That's 248 more points than she has now!
- another interesting thing to think about is Clark's FG% is 270 basis points higher than Pistol's WITH likely a higher mix of 3 point distance shots. Clark's 2 point %ge is 56%!!! If you apply that percentage to Pistol's shot attempts, she would have 4491 points. That's not completely fair because I'm sure Pistol attempted some long shots too.

TL;DR - shutup with the Pistol only played three years crap. He took more shots at a lower percentage than Clark, period. If Clark took as many shots as he did, she would have smashed his record several games ago, even without the three pointer benefit.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Different genders, different eras, different rules, different ball, different competition.

Almost every time a sports record is broken there are folks trying to compare the players. What's wrong with that? It really doesn't diminish the accomplishment of one to say the other one was "tougher" to achieve for some reason.

It's just sports talk. It's what people do.

🤷‍♂️

 

[TheGuy9]

I'll start with saying that I believe Clark and Pistol's stats should not be compared and should be celebrated individually. That said, I get the media likes to find things to stoke and break. And I get tired of the same old asterisks getting thrown out to discredit Clark's record. So, some quick fun math can show Clark would have beaten Pistol's record by even more (even without the three point line):
- even with playing one less year, Pistol took 573 more shots and 262 more free throws than Clark!! I've heard the shots per game mentioned, but total shots should be compared to total points scored.
- If you apply Clark's FG% to Pistol's total field goal attempts and counted every make as a 2 pointer, Clark would have scored 2947 points from field goals.
- if you apply Clark's free throw percentage to Pistol's free attempts, Clark would have scored 986 points from free throws
- added together, Clark would currently have 3933 total points if she attempted as many shots and free throws as Pistol at her current make percentages and only counted all field goals as 2, removing the 3 pointer benefit. That's 248 more points than she has now!
- another interesting thing to think about is Clark's FG% is 270 basis points higher than Pistol's WITH likely a higher mix of 3 point distance shots. Clark's 2 point %ge is 56%!!! If you apply that percentage to Pistol's shot attempts, she would have 4491 points. That's not completely fair because I'm sure Pistol attempted some long shots too.

TL;DR - shutup with the Pistol only played three years crap. He took more shots at a lower percentage than Clark, period. If Clark took as many shots as he did, she would have smashed his record several games ago, even without the three pointer benefit.

Dumbest thing I have ever read. To begin with you left out THE variable that changes everything you tried to do. The women play with a smaller ball. When the decision was made by the NCAA to go to the smaller ball it was done so specifically to allow females better control of the ball, and to allow them to be able to shoot with more accuracy from greater distances. You also neglected to factor in caliber of play and player. As for your last comment, it's just petty. Afterall, In order to improve their skills the women practice against a bunch of male players who were avertage high school p[layers, but provide a challenge to the NUMBER 2 women's team in the country. But hey. Nice try.

 

[goodbyebobby]

Dumbest thing I have ever read. To begin with you left out THE variable that changes everything you tried to do. The women play with a smaller ball. When the decision was made by the NCAA to go to the smaller ball it was done so specifically to allow females better control of the ball, and to allow them to be able to shoot with more accuracy from greater distances. You also neglected to factor in caliber of play and player. As for your last comment, it's just petty. Afterall, In order to improve their skills the women practice against a bunch of male players who were avertage high school p[layers, but provide a challenge to the NUMBER 2 women's team in the country. But hey. Nice try.

Absolutely spot on.

There is no comparing men and women in sports, and there's nothing wrong with that either.

 

[nelly02]

Not to mention you can't say she is going to shoot the same percentage if she starts chucking at double the rate she currently is. Defenses would adjust and to get that many shots up she would have to start taking tougher shots and her percentage would go down.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Weird direction the replies to the OP chose to take.....lol.

 

[Doodads and Hoohah]

I think Liestikow had a good article about this a few weeks ago.

 

[kceasthawk]

Dumbest thing I have ever read. To begin with you left out THE variable that changes everything you tried to do. The women play with a smaller ball. When the decision was made by the NCAA to go to the smaller ball it was done so specifically to allow females better control of the ball, and to allow them to be able to shoot with more accuracy from greater distances. You also neglected to factor in caliber of play and player. As for your last comment, it's just petty. Afterall, In order to improve their skills the women practice against a bunch of male players who were avertage high school p[layers, but provide a challenge to the NUMBER 2 women's team in the country. But hey. Nice try.

I'm shocked , SHOCKED I tell you that you would post something which seems like shade directed at Clark. You talk SO much about the small balls thing, It REALLY has me wondering what your hang up is about "small balls". Oh, okay.....

 

[Hawksfor3]

It's what the media does. Invite controversy and then step back and watch the views.

 

[BrotherHawkeye]

Weird direction the replies to the OP chose to take.....lol.

Fear of emasculation.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

I'll start with saying that I believe Clark and Pistol's stats should not be compared and should be celebrated individually. That said, I get the media likes to find things to stoke and break. And I get tired of the same old asterisks getting thrown out to discredit Clark's record. So, some quick fun math can show Clark would have beaten Pistol's record by even more (even without the three point line):
- even with playing one less year, Pistol took 573 more shots and 262 more free throws than Clark!! I've heard the shots per game mentioned, but total shots should be compared to total points scored.
- If you apply Clark's FG% to Pistol's total field goal attempts and counted every make as a 2 pointer, Clark would have scored 2947 points from field goals.
- if you apply Clark's free throw percentage to Pistol's free attempts, Clark would have scored 986 points from free throws
- added together, Clark would currently have 3933 total points if she attempted as many shots and free throws as Pistol at her current make percentages and only counted all field goals as 2, removing the 3 pointer benefit. That's 248 more points than she has now!
- another interesting thing to think about is Clark's FG% is 270 basis points higher than Pistol's WITH likely a higher mix of 3 point distance shots. Clark's 2 point %ge is 56%!!! If you apply that percentage to Pistol's shot attempts, she would have 4491 points. That's not completely fair because I'm sure Pistol attempted some long shots too.

TL;DR - shutup with the Pistol only played three years crap. He took more shots at a lower percentage than Clark, period. If Clark took as many shots as he did, she would have smashed his record several games ago, even without the three pointer benefit.

Lots of stupid here. Not the least of which is you imply getting to the free throw line is not “earned” they are free. I don’t want to take ANYTHING away from CC but do you really think she would shoot the same % with the larger ball?

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Lots of stupid here. Not the least of which is you imply getting to the free throw line is not “earned” they are free. I don’t want to take ANYTHING away from CC but do you really think she would shoot the same % with the larger ball?

Who cares?

 

[General Tso]

Not to mention you can't say she is going to shoot the same percentage if she starts chucking at double the rate she currently is. Defenses would adjust and to get that many shots up she would have to start taking tougher shots and her percentage would go down.

I didn't realize only the defenses could adjust - huh, learn something new every day.

 

[General Tso]

Weird direction the replies to the OP chose to take.....lol.

Agreed - a few dumbshits taking a fun 'what if' math exercise a bit too seriously

 

[BGHAWK]

Dumbest thing I have ever read. To begin with you left out THE variable that changes everything you tried to do. The women play with a smaller ball. When the decision was made by the NCAA to go to the smaller ball it was done so specifically to allow females better control of the ball, and to allow them to be able to shoot with more accuracy from greater distances. You also neglected to factor in caliber of play and player. As for your last comment, it's just petty. Afterall, In order to improve their skills the women practice against a bunch of male players who were avertage high school p[layers, but provide a challenge to the NUMBER 2 women's team in the country. But hey. Nice try.

lol

 

[BGHAWK]

Blah blah blah bitch bitch bitch

 

[nck24]

I'll start with saying that I believe Clark and Pistol's stats should not be compared and should be celebrated individually. That said, I get the media likes to find things to stoke and break. And I get tired of the same old asterisks getting thrown out to discredit Clark's record. So, some quick fun math can show Clark would have beaten Pistol's record by even more (even without the three point line):
- even with playing one less year, Pistol took 573 more shots and 262 more free throws than Clark!! I've heard the shots per game mentioned, but total shots should be compared to total points scored.
- If you apply Clark's FG% to Pistol's total field goal attempts and counted every make as a 2 pointer, Clark would have scored 2947 points from field goals.
- if you apply Clark's free throw percentage to Pistol's free attempts, Clark would have scored 986 points from free throws
- added together, Clark would currently have 3933 total points if she attempted as many shots and free throws as Pistol at her current make percentages and only counted all field goals as 2, removing the 3 pointer benefit. That's 248 more points than she has now!
- another interesting thing to think about is Clark's FG% is 270 basis points higher than Pistol's WITH likely a higher mix of 3 point distance shots. Clark's 2 point %ge is 56%!!! If you apply that percentage to Pistol's shot attempts, she would have 4491 points. That's not completely fair because I'm sure Pistol attempted some long shots too.

TL;DR - shutup with the Pistol only played three years crap. He took more shots at a lower percentage than Clark, period. If Clark took as many shots as he did, she would have smashed his record several games ago, even without the three pointer benefit.

Pete scored a lot of points playing men's basketball years ago. Good for him. I remember buying Pistol Pete Keds shoes when I was a kid. Can't remember a game watching him play.

Caitlin scored even more points playing women's basketball. Good for her. Everyone has seen her play. The marketing machine makes more money by putting her record against his.

The end

 

[Mountain Man Hawk]

I hesitate to post this because I’m almost afraid of some of the replies I might get but how much do we think Pistol’s numbers are impacted by the lack of black players in the SEC at that time?

I’m a huge fan of his, but most of the highlights I see from his LSU days are him playing against 5 skinny white kids.

 

[nck24]

I hesitate to post this because I’m almost afraid of some of the replies I might get but how much do we think Pistol’s numbers are impacted by the lack of black players in the SEC at that time?

I’m a huge fan of his, but most of the highlights I see from his LSU days are him playing against 5 skinny white kids.

Every great one plays within the circumstances of their times. They don't control who their opponent is. They just go out and play.

 

[Mountain Man Hawk]

Here are some Pistol highlights. He really was incredible and surely would have been incredible in any era. But I think it’s reasonable to debate if defenses would have been better if the South wasn’t so segregated during his LSU days.

 

[Mountain Man Hawk]

Every great one plays within the circumstances of their times. They don't control who their opponent is. They just go out and play.

Totally agree with that. It’s all always apples to oranges with these debates. I see people making similar arguments about Babe Ruth (didn’t have to face Satchel Paige, etc) but nobody doubts Babe would have been great regardless of the competition.

Similarly with Pistol Pete, I’m sure he still would have been amazing. He might not have shot 40 times a game in any other era and he might have faced better defenses if not for segregation. I’m not taking anything away from him, just offering up for discussion that there are counter-points when people say he could have averaged over 50 a game with modern rules (3pt line and shot clock).

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Totally agree with that. It’s all always apples to oranges with these debates. I see people making similar arguments about Babe Ruth (didn’t have to face Satchel Paige, etc) but nobody doubts Babe would have been great regardless of the competition.

Similarly with Pistol Pete, I’m sure he still would have been amazing. He might not have shot 40 times a game in any other era and he might have faced better defenses if not for segregation. I’m not taking anything away from him, just offering up for discussion that there are counter-points when people say he could have averaged over 50 a game with modern rules (3pt line and shot clock).

I think his pro game is more a reflection of how he would've been, which is still absolutely elite and one of the greatest.

He really was similar to Caitlin because he was the guy at LSU, similar to Clark with Iowa, even though we as Iowa fans recognize and appreciate the supporting cast around her.

 

[SunzOutGunzOut]

Cool video about both. Apologies if this is posted elsewhere

 

[Mountain Man Hawk]

Cool video about both. Apologies if this is posted elsewhere

View embedded media

That’s amazing. A bunch of Pistol highlights and then for each there is a nearly identical play from Caitlin that matches. This one deserves its own thread really.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

Pete scored a lot of points playing men's basketball years ago. Good for him. I remember buying Pistol Pete Keds shoes when I was a kid. Can't remember a game watching him play.

Caitlin scored even more points playing women's basketball. Good for her. Everyone has seen her play. The marketing machine makes more money by putting her record against his.

The end

Apparently YOU care.

 

[BirdistheWord]

I hesitate to post this because I’m almost afraid of some of the replies I might get but how much do we think Pistol’s numbers are impacted by the lack of black players in the SEC at that time?

I’m a huge fan of his, but most of the highlights I see from his LSU days are him playing against 5 skinny white kids.

But Clark is 27 and in her 6th year

 

[GunnerHawk]

I'll start with saying that I believe Clark and Pistol's stats should not be compared and should be celebrated individually. That said, I get the media likes to find things to stoke and break. And I get tired of the same old asterisks getting thrown out to discredit Clark's record. So, some quick fun math can show Clark would have beaten Pistol's record by even more (even without the three point line):
- even with playing one less year, Pistol took 573 more shots and 262 more free throws than Clark!! I've heard the shots per game mentioned, but total shots should be compared to total points scored.
- If you apply Clark's FG% to Pistol's total field goal attempts and counted every make as a 2 pointer, Clark would have scored 2947 points from field goals.
- if you apply Clark's free throw percentage to Pistol's free attempts, Clark would have scored 986 points from free throws
- added together, Clark would currently have 3933 total points if she attempted as many shots and free throws as Pistol at her current make percentages and only counted all field goals as 2, removing the 3 pointer benefit. That's 248 more points than she has now!
- another interesting thing to think about is Clark's FG% is 270 basis points higher than Pistol's WITH likely a higher mix of 3 point distance shots. Clark's 2 point %ge is 56%!!! If you apply that percentage to Pistol's shot attempts, she would have 4491 points. That's not completely fair because I'm sure Pistol attempted some long shots too.

TL;DR - shutup with the Pistol only played three years crap. He took more shots at a lower percentage than Clark, period. If Clark took as many shots as he did, she would have smashed his record several games ago, even without the three pointer benefit.

Great analytics but at the end of the day.

Caitin (Ponytail Pete) is Great and Pistol Pete was great. I agree, why compare, both were great in there day.

 

[hawkedoff]

Pistol Pete would have been her biggest fan. Weird to see dudes using him as a way to tear her down when he would have absolutely loved her game. Current All Star NBA players love her game but we have dudes and black lesbians that just can't get over their bitterness.