ADVERTISEMENT

commitment

Its pretty easy to envision what an Iowa line-up will look like 2-3 years from now

Ellingson 6'4
Fleming 6'5
Moss 6'6
Williams 6'6
Hutton 6'6
Wagner 6'7
Baer 6'7
Uhl 6'8
Pemsl 6'9(?)
Rakocevic(?) or TBD 6'9-6'10

.....gone is the big physical Center (7'1 Woodbury) and the smaller PG (6'2 Gesell & Clemmons). In its place you have 8-9 players ranging from 6'5 to 6'9 most of whom can play multiple positions, big wingspans, quicker, tall players with range who can also handle the ball. 3 guards & 2 forwards or vice-versa.
 
Intriguing.

People are skeptical about the class because every major recruiting service in the country has it down around 10-11 in the conference. That means a lot of scouts have to way wrong for this to be a top third of conference class. But that's just one handful of data.

On the other hand, five seasons in McCaffery has demonstrated an ability to develop talent (Gatens, May, Marble (All BT) and White (All BT) and spot unknowns (White) and turn them into really good players. Olaseni certainly developed into an impact player for a 12-6 Big Ten team. Every season has improved on the season before.

So the Iowa has a good class theory, while unlikely isn't just a crazy proposition either. A 6'6" point guard, if the Williams kid develops into a good point guard, is a hell of an offensive and defensive weapon. The extra six inches on his wingspan takes up a lot of space out in a McCaffery zone.

Got to take the best big available to us. Iowa cannot win consistently in the Big Ten without a big center presence.
 
Originally posted by The Sleeping Dog:
Intriguing.

People are skeptical about the class because every major recruiting service in the country has it down around 10-11 in the conference. That means a lot of scouts have to way wrong for this to be a top third of conference class. But that's just one handful of data.

On the other hand, five seasons in McCaffery has demonstrated an ability to develop talent (Gatens, May, Marble (All BT) and White (All BT) and spot unknowns (White) and turn them into really good players. Olaseni certainly developed into an impact player for a 12-6 Big Ten team. Every season has improved on the season before.

So the Iowa has a good class theory, while unlikely isn't just a crazy proposition either. A 6'6" point guard, if the Williams kid develops into a good point guard, is a hell of an offensive and defensive weapon. The extra six inches on his wingspan takes up a lot of space out in a McCaffery zone.

Got to take the best big available to us. Iowa cannot win consistently in the Big Ten without a big center presence.





Good post. However it doesn't take scouts to be "way wrong" for Iowa to have recruited a far better class than shows in the rankings.

Three teams, Michigan State, Illinois and Ohio State have by far the most top 100 players. I won't even try to argue that on paper they have us beat.

Next is teams like Wisconsin, Minnesota and Nebraska, that can brag about a couple of top 100 or close to top 100 recruits.

Here is where I think one needs to pause. Too many times these barely top 100 types end up no better than the average 3 star. We are truly entering guesswork territory. However, I'm willing to say they MIGHT have a better year than Iowa? We don't know.

Then we get into the Penn State's, Northwestern's, teams that may have ONE guy who barely made the 4* list. At this point common sense has to kick in and seriously...it's complete guesswork now!

TIME and again we've seen these ultra high recruiting classes get jumbled up and the outcome is the Indiana's, Illinois, Ohio States, of this season that compared to their "stars", they are huge fails!

The truth is, Iowa could have anywhere from as low as tenth to as high as the fourth best recruiting class, and that is still just playing the odds.

So, as demonstrated, the difference between a fourth ranked team and a tenth ranked team as far as recruiting goes is moderate to negligible.

Nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by nu2u:

Its pretty easy to envision what an Iowa line-up will look like 2-3 years from now

Ellingson 6'4
Fleming 6'5
Moss 6'6
Williams 6'6
Hutton 6'6
Wagner 6'7
Baer 6'7
Uhl 6'8
Pemsl 6'9(?)
Rakocevic(?) or TBD 6'9-6'10

.....gone is the big physical Center (7'1 Woodbury) and the smaller PG (6'2 Gesell & Clemmons). In its place you have 8-9 players ranging from 6'5 to 6'9 most of whom can play multiple positions, big wingspans, quicker, tall players with range who can also handle the ball. 3 guards & 2 forwards or vice-versa.
Click to expand...
"gone is the big physical Center (7'1 Woodbury) and the smaller PG (6'2 Gesell & Clemmons)."

If this is true then it might make sense to draft more 7 footers and small, quick guards. Iowa is never going to outrecruit the Mich, OSU, MSU for the 6'5 to 6'9 guys. So, you go the other way, get the best players at those sizes and you are a matchup nightmare for them because they aren't used to playing teams with a good 7 footer or a really good small PG.

It's kind of the same philosophy Billy Beane uses in baseball. When every other team is zigging, he's zagging and vice versa. When everyone was trying to acquire power hitters, he was looking for high OBP guys. Last year he loaded up his team with hitters who like the ball down in the zone because pitchers are throwing more and more sinkers (along with pitching down in the zone). It's also the same thing Theo has done with the Cubs in the past few drafts. When everyone else was drafting high OBP or big power arms, Theo was loading up on big power bats because he realizes that's the rarest commodity in MLB. You want to be ahead of the curve, especially if you are a small market/budget team, or in the case of Iowa, a team who doesn't have the recruiting base of Mich, Ohio, Indiana, Ill.
 
I don't know maybe Iowa is going against the grain by loading up their roster with tall skinny players with freakish wingspans who can dribble with skill and shoot 3s..
 
Welcome Christian!!!

If Fran has been watching for a long time and thinks Christian will be a good addition, I am very happy to have him. Nice to have flexibility in the backcourt with a lot of length. I suspect he will be getting a LOT of time in practice at PG, and maybe could be a redshirt candidate.

Hawks almost certainly are locked into a big guy with the final ride. The kid mentioned in the thread sounds interesting. Not having a "true PG" coming back after next year could make recruiting a stud PG easier in the next class.
 
Go look at the types of players that Northwestern and Nebraska have coming in the next few years. They are going to be getting much better and both coaches are getting serious results on the recruiting front. You will always have MSU, Wisky, OSU, Michigan, Maryland, Illinois, Indiana, and Purdue with built-in advantages due to location and they will continue to get great players. Now Northwestern and Nebraska are joining the party. I like our class but it's just not on par with these other schools. We are all Polar Bears battling for that same chunk of ice and it's starting to melt. Which schools are going to be left standing? You can try to rationalize it by calling those of us that have our doubts idiots or traitors, etc. but just look at football. Our recruiting results have been in the bottom half of the league for several years and look at the product on the field now. Seems like a pretty obvious correlation to me. I like Fran and every single Iowa fan should be appreciative of 3 20 win seasons in a row and back to back NCAA tournament appearances. He has done a hell of a job. I like the guys in this class and they want to be Hawkeyes but I for one was just hoping to land some big fish. It just doesn't look like Fran has it in him for whatever reason. I just hope we don't start to slide over the next few years.

This post was edited on 3/16 11:49 PM by Hawks2405
 
Originally posted by nu2u:

Its pretty easy to envision what an Iowa line-up will look like 2-3 years from now

Ellingson 6'4
Fleming 6'5
Moss 6'6
Williams 6'6
Hutton 6'6
Wagner 6'7
Baer 6'7
Uhl 6'8
Pemsl 6'9(?)
Rakocevic(?) or TBD 6'9-6'10

.....gone is the big physical Center (7'1 Woodbury) and the smaller PG (6'2 Gesell & Clemmons). In its place you have 8-9 players ranging from 6'5 to 6'9 most of whom can play multiple positions, big wingspans, quicker, tall players with range who can also handle the ball. 3 guards & 2 forwards or vice-versa.
Click to expand...
You forgot Connor McCaffery who'll be 6'4" or taller when he arrives in 2017.
 
Originally posted by Hawks2405:
Go look at the types of players that Northwestern and Nebraska have coming in the next few years. They are going to be improving dramatically........
Click to expand...
That's a pretty big leap of faith you made there. Nebraska is getting a couple of very good players in Morrow and Watson IMO but the rest of their '15&'16 recruits and every one of NW's future recruits don't appear to be difference makers (again, IMO). I am fully cognizant of my bias, but I would not honestly trade any of Iowa's recruits for any Nebraska or NW recruit, except for Ed Morrow.
 
Originally posted by Hawks2405:
Go look at the types of players that Northwestern and Nebraska have coming in the next few years. They are going to be getting much better and both coaches are getting serious results on the recruiting front. You will always have MSU, Wisky, OSU, Michigan, Maryland, Illinois, Indiana, and Purdue with built-in advantages due to location and they will continue to get great players. Now Northwestern and Nebraska are joining the party. I like our class but it's just not on par with these other schools. We are all Polar Bears battling for that same chunk of ice and it's starting to melt. Which schools are going to be left standing? You can try to rationalize it by calling those of us that have our doubts idiots or traitors, etc. but just look at football. Our recruiting results have been in the bottom half of the league for several years and look at the product on the field now. Seems like a pretty obvious correlation to me. I like Fran and every single Iowa fan should be appreciative of 3 20 win seasons in a row and back to back NCAA tournament appearances. He has done a hell of a job. I like the guys in this class and they want to be Hawkeyes but I for one was just hoping to land some big fish. It just doesn't look like Fran has it in him for whatever reason. I just hope we don't start to slide over the next few years.

This post was edited on 3/16 11:49 PM by Hawks2405
Click to expand...
I know it's just your opinion so I'm not trying to pick on you. But how many times do teams like Ohio State, Indiana, Illinois have to fail with their supposed better recruiting before you MIGHT rethink your reliance on some guys who go watch AAU games and guess how good a kid will be in a couple years?

Think about the BEST players at Iowa since Fran has been here. Marble, White, Uthoff (3 star barely in the top 150) Why not have a little faith that Fran, that 20 wins in three seasons coach, knows what he is doing on the recruiting front.

You might just have that big fish you want and don't know it.

I respect that you have your way of seeing things, just trying to offer some points to consider.

First and foremost....this aint football.
 
I would take Victor Law and Macintosh in a second. Fran wanted and offered Macintosh, Lindsey, and Ash which we lost all of them to NW. Fact.
 
Originally posted by Hawks2405:
I would take Victor Law and Macintosh in a second. Fran wanted and offered Macintosh, Lindsey, and Ash which we lost all of them to NW. Fact.
Click to expand...
Fair enough but your challenge was to "take a look at the recruits coming in the next few years". I may have misinterpreted what you meant to say. MacIntosh, I agree. Law, Lindsey and Ash - again wouldn't trade them for any of Iowa's '15 guard recruits.

Your argument (as I understand it) is that through superior recruiting, NW and NE is catching up and will soon possibly pass Iowa's standing in the conference the next few years. I don't think there is clear and convincing evidence of that. Time will tell.
 
Originally posted by Hawks2405:
I would take Victor Law and Macintosh in a second. Fran wanted and offered Macintosh, Lindsey, and Ash which we lost all of them to NW. Fact.
Click to expand...
We don't get to have all the players. Other schools get some as well.

Hutton...Wisconsin wanted him
Moss...Iowa State
Fleming...several, Nebraska being one
Wagner....Minnesota.

Even Williams was just recently offered by St. Louis, and Minnesota and Illinois were sniffing around.

See, I can bring up guys that others schools wanted.
wink.r191677.gif


By the way, Bryant McIntosh? List of misses. Auburn, Cincinnati, Clemson, Creighton, Indiana State, Iowa, Memphis, Missouri, Oregon State, Purdue, Rhode Island, West Virginia. So what makes Iowa so special that we don't get to have a miss along with all these other schools?

I could show similar lists for the others you mentioned. Ash? I think it might have been that Hutton committed before he did and their schools, De La Salle and St. Joes are rivals. Not sure.
 
Originally posted by combes:

I like him. Not a great shooter, but he handles it well for a 6-6 kid. Good athlete. Good defender. My only reservation is that he plays at a low level of basketball in Illinois. His team was in the state championship game (2A) and they lost a close game. He had about 10 points. There are 4 classes in Illinois. That said, if you watched the game, you can see the ability that he has.

I know that Minnesota was there to see him and talk around the arena was that Illinois was showing some late interest. However, Illinois already signed two wings and are in desperate need of a point guard in the class. I don't think Williams can be a point guard although he handles the ball well. He gets sloppy with it (like a lot of high school kids), but that can be cleaned up. He gets into the lane really well with his ballhandling skills. That is the best part of his game. I think Iowa got a good talent.



This post was edited on 3/16 12:41 PM by combes




This post was edited on 3/16 12:42 PM by combes
Click to expand...
This is the key...we desperately need Moss/Williams to be able to handle the point ala Marble. With Sapp and MG graduating in 16 we'll need these two to fill the void.

On that note...I'd expect to see one or both worked in for some early playing time next year at the point during the "patsy" stages of the schedule. If one or both works out....I like the length on the perimeter with the 1-3 spots going forward. If they can't cut it...we might be in some trouble. We could always land a transfer/class of 17 point guard but I really hope one of these two can handle the position.

On a positive note....if they work out....we'll be a match up nightmare for teams.

This post was edited on 3/17 2:15 AM by binsfeldcyhawk2
This post was edited on 3/17 2:17 AM by binsfeldcyhawk2
 
I know nothing of this particular recruit, but as several have noted I'm puzzled when looked at in the context of the other commits.
Seeing the struggles of a small team, like indy this year in the B1G, gives me concern about where the presence in the lane both on offense and defense will come.
I hope Wagner isn't done growing and hits the weights hard this summer.
 
I like the recruits Fran is bringing in. You have to remember, Fran's style is not to have one guy who goes for 25 ppg a night. Fran is just adding pieces to the puzzle. Guys who can rotate in, move the ball ... create shots ... play defense. I really do like how this recruiting class is shaping up. And honestly, I would prefer to have guys like the ones we have coming in versus any 1 and doners. I think what will continue to make Iowa successful is we have guys who actually play in the system for four years.

I think Fran realized he needed to step it up a notch with the level of athletes he needs to be competitive in the Big 10. I just really like what he is bringing in ... And these are guys who can also play defense ... I think many fans will be surprised at how good these incoming recruits can be.

Fran's style is to bring in guys who work well together ... This is going to be a fun group to watch ... I have been critical of Fran in the past ... As I have Lisa Bluder ... But you see what Bluder is doing on the recruiting front for the women's team. I think Fran recognized he needs better athletes to complete in the Big 10. And I think this next class is the beginning of something special.

I don't get real caught up in # of stars a bball recruit has behind his name ... Look at UNI...Gonzaga...Butler (a few years ago)... VCU...Wichita State... There are many, many good basketball players out there. What makes UNI so successful is they truly play as a team. Individually, not the most talented guys in the world. But they work well together ...

Anything is possible in March Madness ... Anything is possible with this incoming class.
 
Originally posted by binsfeldcyhawk2:
Originally posted by combes:

I like him.  Not a great shooter, but he handles it well for a 6-6 kid.  Good athlete.  Good defender.  My only reservation is that he plays at a low level of basketball in Illinois.  His team was in the state championship game (2A) and they lost a close game.  He had about 10 points.  There are 4 classes in Illinois.  That said, if you watched the game, you can see the ability that he has.

I know that Minnesota was there to see him and talk around the arena was that Illinois was showing some late interest.  However, Illinois already signed two wings and are in desperate need of a point guard in the class.  I don't think Williams can be a point guard although he handles the ball well.  He gets sloppy with it (like a lot of high school kids), but that can be cleaned up.  He gets into the lane really well with his ballhandling skills.  That is the best part of his game.  I think Iowa got a good talent.



This post was edited on 3/16 12:41 PM by combes




This post was edited on 3/16 12:42 PM by combes
Click to expand...
This is the key...we desperately need  Moss/Williams to be able to handle the point ala Marble.  With Sapp and MG graduating in 16 we'll need these two to fill the void.

 On that note...I'd expect to see one or both worked in for some early playing time next year at the point during the "patsy" stages of the schedule.  If one or both works out....I like the length on the perimeter with the 1-3 spots going forward.  If they can't cut it...we might be in some trouble.  We could always land a transfer/class of 17 point guard but I really hope one of these two can handle the position.

 On a positive note....if they work out....we'll be a match up nightmare for teams.

This post was edited on 3/17 2:15 AM by binsfeldcyhawk2
This post was edited on 3/17 2:17 AM by binsfeldcyhawk2
Click to expand...
I think we will see Fleming play the point long before Moss does. Just my 2cents. While I really like Williams and his potential I do see what folks are worried about with the lack of bigs. For next year I'm thinking that Fran is hoping the addition of Wager/Hutton will help on the boards and defensively. I like Baer but I'm hoping that we aren't going to relying on him to be some kind of force down low anytime soon. I see what posters have previously said about Indiana getting killed down low and you would hope we don't end up in a situation where we are that desperate against teams with good bigs ala Purdue.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by jaffarosenfels:

I think we will see Fleming play the point long before Moss does. Just my 2cents. While I really like Williams and his potential I do see what folks are worried about with the lack of bigs. For next year I'm thinking that Fran is hoping the addition of Wager/Hutton will help on the boards and defensively. I like Baer but I'm hoping that we aren't going to relying on him to be some kind of force down low anytime soon. I see what posters have previously said about Indiana getting killed down low and you would hope we don't end up in a situation where we are that desperate against teams with good bigs ala Purdue.

Posted from Rivals Mobile
Click to expand...
I haven't seen to much of Fleming other than shooting a bunch of three's....didn't see a whole lot of driving to the hoop so I assume he's more of a Oglesby/Gatens type....either way we need someone to play PG and if he can do it great.
 
Originally posted by slipHawk:
Looked like good enough handles to play PG to me. 6' 6" PGs are fun.
Click to expand...
And I think his handle and decision making only improves as he gets more time away from class 2A ball. There will be a learning curve but he seems to have a pretty steady demeanor. There are several things he does well now that will help him greatly. He seems to see the floor really well when double teamed. His pull up game is there. His 3 ball stroke looks solid. Defensively he will at times look for possible ways to get in passing lanes which you know Fran appreciates. I just think Fran saw a kid that fits his style really well so he couldn't pass on him. I guess time will tell. Can't complain having a guy who could possibly play point guard who can also catch lobs and flush it. Certain things you can't teach.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by binsfeldcyhawk2:
Originally posted by jaffarosenfels:

I think we will see Fleming play the point long before Moss does. Just my 2cents. While I really like Williams and his potential I do see what folks are worried about with the lack of bigs. For next year I'm thinking that Fran is hoping the addition of Wager/Hutton will help on the boards and defensively. I like Baer but I'm hoping that we aren't going to relying on him to be some kind of force down low anytime soon. I see what posters have previously said about Indiana getting killed down low and you would hope we don't end up in a situation where we are that desperate against teams with good bigs ala Purdue.

Posted from Rivals Mobile
Click to expand...
I haven't seen to much of Fleming other than shooting a bunch of three's....didn't see a whole lot of driving to the hoop so I assume he's more of a Oglesby/Gatens type....either way we need someone to play PG and if he can do it great.
Click to expand...
I hear ya. There is a ton of footage out there on him and while he does shoot the ball really well he seems to have a really solid handle and could get us into an offense pretty easily. There is plenty of film on him going to the basket and also making good decisions with the ball i.e get assists. He's a pretty nifty passer actually. Now Fran is always looking for his point guards to push the ball and he doesn't seem to have the foot speed to be that type of guy consistently. Overall foot speed is something he probably look to improve on no matter his position.
 
St Teresa knocks off defending state champion Central Catholic 56-35. Christian Williams with 26pts

Yep, looks like a good one.
 
I just watched some of his videos. I see what Fran likes in this kid. In his videos he shot 100% from the field, 100% from the line, and 100% from 3pt. I think I counted about 50pts that he scored while not allowing the opposing teams to even get a shot off against him. Impressive. However I did watch some videos from some of the recruits our competition have signed and they also have guys that shoot 100% from the field and steal and block everything that comes through them. Should be interesting how that plays out in the B1G.
 
Originally posted by Auger:
I just watched some of his videos. I see what Fran likes in this kid. In his videos he shot 100% from the field, 100% from the line, and 100% from 3pt. I think I counted about 50pts that he scored while not allowing the opposing teams to even get a shot off against him. Impressive. However I did watch some videos from some of the recruits our competition have signed and they also have guys that shoot 100% from the field and steal and block everything that comes through them. Should be interesting how that plays out in the B1G.
Click to expand...
Lotta game film on hudl that someone linked. It's not just highlights. Plenty of mistakes and such to be seen. Fundamentals and athleticism are evident.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A

Final Women's Top 25 Polls (4/8)

Replies
0
Views
734
Iowa Basketball
Alum-Ni
A
A

Big Ten Women's Scores, Final Standings & Tournament Schedule (4/6)

Replies
14
Views
4K
Iowa Basketball
Alum-Ni
A
Franisdaman

*****Official B1G Baseball Tournament Thread*****

Replies
113
Views
5K
Hawkeye Sports Catch All
WestIAHawk
WestIAHawk
A

Big Ten Men's Scores, Standings & Tournament Schedule (4/6)

Replies
9
Views
4K
Iowa Basketball
Alum-Ni
A
A

MBB Top 25 Polls & NET (3/4)

Replies
0
Views
200
Iowa Basketball
Alum-Ni
A
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back