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Congrats to I-State...

I believe that is the whole point. The highly rated guys that Iowa gets in state are vastly overrated and don't developed into much. Iowa got a good transfer in Uthoff, but their 4 year players haven't lived up to billing. You certainly reinforced my point.

You can view it that way or you can view my comments the way I meant them. Which is that 'star' rankings in high school are not the end all when it comes to a players future. But evidently the way your psyche works is to ignore reasoned conversation and rather attempt to have the 'your team sucks' argument.

Also, on your Uthoff comment, I personally know that he wanted to back out of his Wisconsin commitment while he was still in high school (the first year of Fran's tenure) but decided to honor it and ultimately transferred after one year. So while he was technically a transfer, any benefit from attending Wisconsin was negligible. So you can continue with this narrative, but the facts are not on your side. Each of the last four years Iowa has had a 1st team All-Big Ten player (Marble, White, Uthoff, and Jok) as well as two 6th man of the year honorees (Baer and Olesani). If there is anything else I can do to reinforce more of your 'points' please let me know.
 
Don't know about Woody. But I think people realized this year what he meant to the team.
Jok, I don't know, first team all Big Ten? He came in a three star. You think that's overrated?
Pemsl, Kriener, do you mind if the jury is still out?
Bohannon, All Big Ten freshman team?

We beat you guys.

I think, come this time next year, Viagra won't even reinforce your point.
Jok was going to ISU until a coaching screw up laid him in the Hawkeyes lap. And before you question me on this, I know the coach that screwed up and Jok was in the bag. It worked out Good for Iowa.
 
Jok was going to ISU until a coaching screw up laid him in the Hawkeyes lap. And before you question me on this, I know the coach that screwed up and Jok was in the bag. It worked out Good for Iowa.

Stay on subject. You were trying to claim Iowa players that have come from instate are overrated?
 
Is 'getting ready to get his 5th star?" Had to laugh when I read that. You do understand that the rankings, stars, etc etc about recruits really mean nothing? Adam Woodbury was a top 50 player overall, 98 composite ranking, 4/5 star recruit who was named the MVP at the 2011 NBA Players Association's Top 100 basketball camp, that camp included many players who have since been drafted highly in the NBA. I'll let you judge the accuracy of those recruiting numbers.

But anyway, I have watched Wigginton play in person, and he is a great player and the leading scorer on Oak Hill. Without a doubt a top recruit. That doesn't' guarantee he will have a great NCAA career, but it would be surprising if he didn't contribute for the Clones. While it's easy to talk crap and say 'those level of guards' don't play in Iowa City. They traditionally haven't came to Ames out of high school either. Monte Morris was a recruit who was offered by no blue chip schools and was comparatively ranked lower than Wigginton. I would bet most Clone fans are glad he turned out the way he did. So let's not pretend like ISU is some legendary guard recruiting powerhouse here. The Clones landed a top guard in Wigginton, but like every other recruit the jury will be out until he gets on campus and plays a few seasons. Don't even get me started on the Ball brothers who are in high school...

As far as playing against the best, all of the D1 players play vs. one another in AAU ball. Even the players you paint as 'scrubs' from Iowa play in those. Bottom line is that if you are good, you are good. The cream will rise to the top as you move up the ranks of competition.

oh no! Not the stars don't matter crap.
Morris was a 4 star Top 100 player.
 
All I care about is that Iowa gets good players no matter where they come from. I do hope that Isaiah Moss becomes a star and helps Iowa start reeling in more Chicago area talent. The Illini are down, DePaul is history, Notre Dame stinks, why can't Iowa focus there and poach Chicago ballers like we've done in the past?

What? Notre Dame stinks?
 
oh no! Not the stars don't matter crap.
Morris was a 4 star Top 100 player.

You can call it crap all you want, but ultimately the stars don't matter. Are the star rankings always wrong? No. Are they always right? No. Either you can play or you can't. I'm not making that argument from an "Iowa vs. Iowa State" standpoint. So remove that line of thinking from this conversation.

I'm sure that many places had Morris as a 4 star top 100, while others didn't. In hindsight, the places that had him outside the top 100 were wrong. This only further bolsters my argument that the rankings are a crapshoot at best. Morris was a 3 star and outside the top 100 according to 247sports.

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I'm surprised your fanbase is so concerned about Iowa kids. Seemed to me all you did was complain about Woody and MG for 4 years. Suspect it will be that way for this years freshman class when they don't get it done over the next 3 years as well. Keep "doing it the right way" Fran. And by the way, there is no ground work being laid for bigger in state recruits. Thats done by winning, getting in the dance and advancing - something Iowa isn't doing. Those recruits will be watching the clones this week!
 
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I'm surprised your fanbase is so concerned about Iowa kids. Seemed to me all you did was complain about Woody and MG for 4 years. Suspect it will be that way for this years freshman class when they don't get it done over the next 3 years as well. Keep "doing it the right way" Fran. And by the way, there is no ground work being laid for bigger in state recruits. Thats done by winning, getting in the dance and advancing - something Iowa isn't doing. Those recruits will be watching the clones this week!

I don't think there is a "right way" and I'm certainly not saying ISU does things the wrong way (call Fred first was not right though, and you know he was bringing in some bad kids, but whatever I can't change your mind).

I think this class of freshman Iowa has will be great. Not next year - they'll disappoint most here, in fact, with being a bubble team again, but in 2018-2019 they will be a very tough group. I'm thinking we will be top 3-4 in the B1G and poised to make a run in the NCAA that year.
 
You can call it crap all you want, but ultimately the stars don't matter. Are the star rankings always wrong? No. Are they always right? No. Either you can play or you can't. I'm not making that argument from an "Iowa vs. Iowa State" standpoint. So remove that line of thinking from this conversation.

I'm sure that many places had Morris as a 4 star top 100, while others didn't. In hindsight, the places that had him outside the top 100 were wrong. This only further bolsters my argument that the rankings are a crapshoot at best. Morris was a 3 star and outside the top 100 according to 247sports.

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He was a composite 4 star and top 100. So it bolsters my argument. And he was ranked 115 and was one point away from a four star in their non-composite rating. So not exactly a scrub recruit.

They aren't a crapshoot. You are totally wrong. Track teams that win the most games and what players they get. Are there outliers? Yes of course. But basketball ratings are far superior to football ratings because it is far easier to project them in college and beyond.
 
I'm surprised your fanbase is so concerned about Iowa kids. Seemed to me all you did was complain about Woody and MG for 4 years. Suspect it will be that way for this years freshman class when they don't get it done over the next 3 years as well. Keep "doing it the right way" Fran. And by the way, there is no ground work being laid for bigger in state recruits. Thats done by winning, getting in the dance and advancing - something Iowa isn't doing. Those recruits will be watching the clones this week!
I am in no way a Clone fan but you have some very legitimate points.
 
...The team from Ames that is headed to the NCAA tournament without ONE player from the state of Iowa on its roster. Well done.

Oh, and BTW, that's the same I-State team that lost convincingly to the IOWA Hawkeyes, 78-64, even though the Hawkeyes have SEVEN IOWA players on their 15-man roster, most of whom play significant minutes. One made the Big Ten all-freshman first team, and one was the BIG's sixth man of the year.

FWIW.
What post season tourney is Omaha playing in? You know, the team that beat the Iowa team that has SEVEN IOWA players on their 15 man roster?
 
What post season tourney is Omaha playing in? You know, the team that beat the Iowa team that has SEVEN IOWA players on their 15 man roster?

You seem halfway reasonable, so I'm going to double your "like" count to 2. How does one have 8,078 posts with only 1 like man?
 
You seem halfway reasonable, so I'm going to double your "like" count to 2. How does one have 8,078 posts with only 1 like man?

Another way of putting it, why did hundreds of readers NOT find the guy reasonable enough to earn a like? Over 8,000 times!
 
Yeah! Who needs guys like Gannon, Waite, Hanson on a final four team!

We'd have been way better off without Horner, Brunner, Haluska, Oliver, Street, Settles..........all the way back to Murray Weir and even before then!

You are right, GirlyDance, in fact we oughta get everybody from as far away from Iowa as possible. Bangladesh maybe!
Reading is not your strong suit. Nowhere did i say not to take Iowa players. But in the long hall i think we fill to many spots with local guys. the thing i was addressing was the feel good aspect of the post. it means jack squat to me where a player comes from. I don't feel any different if we win with Iowa player or we lose with out of staters. I also believe are best [players have been out of state players.
 
Reading is not your strong suit. Nowhere did i say not to take Iowa players. But in the long hall i think we fill to many spots with local guys. the thing i was addressing was the feel good aspect of the post. it means jack squat to me where a player comes from. I don't feel any different if we win with Iowa player or we lose with out of staters. I also believe are best [players have been out of state players.

I believe you.
 
You can call it crap all you want, but ultimately the stars don't matter. Are the star rankings always wrong? No. Are they always right? No. Either you can play or you can't. I'm not making that argument from an "Iowa vs. Iowa State" standpoint. So remove that line of thinking from this conversation.

I'm sure that many places had Morris as a 4 star top 100, while others didn't. In hindsight, the places that had him outside the top 100 were wrong. This only further bolsters my argument that the rankings are a crapshoot at best. Morris was a 3 star and outside the top 100 according to 247sports.

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Morris was a 4 star on Rivals.
 
You said that you don't expect Fran to bring a bunch of players from Iowa, just because they grew up here. Well nobody said he should be doing that either. Which players from Iowa on the current or upcoming roster, do you think he shouldn't have recruited?
My point, which you didn't address is Fran has laid the groundwork to land the next top 50 recruits in the state, which many of his predessesors did not. Some posters say they don't care if we have Iowa players on the roster as long as we win. I say BULL! Had Fran not laid this groundwork, we'd be much less likely to land the next Paige. Barnes, Lafrents, Collison, Davis, or Weiskamp that comes along, and believe me those same people will be on here bitching because we can't keep top instate talent in Iowa.
For some reason if Iowa doesn't land a good Iowa kid or even doesn't recruit him, it's Iowa's fault but if ISU doesn't it's okay, and I'm not talking so much about Iowa fans but casual bball observers.
 
For some reason if Iowa doesn't land a good Iowa kid or even doesn't recruit him, it's Iowa's fault but if ISU doesn't it's okay, and I'm not talking so much about Iowa fans but casual bball observers.
Just further evidence thats its the HAWKEYE STATE!
 
Boy are they ripping The Mac family. Jesus. CyTwins has gone after the high school kids personally. Really bad. They have over 300 posts on the Mac kids which is more than their game tomorrow. I got 2 calls from the Cyclone gridiron to out Twins.
 
You seem halfway reasonable, so I'm going to double your "like" count to 2. How does one have 8,078 posts with only 1 like man?

To be fair, you have to know that Fairview rarely posts over here. He has over 5000 likes on the Iowa State site, where he is a regular contributor.
 
This only further bolsters my argument that the rankings are a crapshoot at best.
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Recruiting rankings are a crap-shoot? There's a direct correlation to wins based on team recruiting in both FB and Bball, as well as those taken in the draft.
 
Recruiting rankings are a crap-shoot? There's a direct correlation to wins based on team recruiting in both FB and Bball, as well as those taken in the draft.
It's a factor, but there are others, like who's doing the coaching, and what their teaching. I could argue that there are numerous schools who destroy Iowa every year in recruiting, and yet don't win more consistently or put more players in the NFL then Iowa does. The last decade teams like Texas, and USC come to mind, although I'm sure there are many since there are usually 50 schools above Iowa in recruiting.
 
For some reason if Iowa doesn't land a good Iowa kid or even doesn't recruit him, it's Iowa's fault but if ISU doesn't it's okay, and I'm not talking so much about Iowa fans but casual bball observers.
This won't sit well with a lot of posters here, but I think one reason for that is the relative success of the two programs in recent years. The cynic in me always has believed that if you're going to have a mediocre team, it better have in-state kids on it. If a team is winning, the home states of the major contributors isn't as important.

Another way to look at it -- only slightly less cynical -- is that people who are looking for reasons to be unhappy with a program and/or coach that isn't winning "enough," and not recruiting decent in-state kids is a good one.
 
This won't sit well with a lot of posters here, but I think one reason for that is the relative success of the two programs in recent years. The cynic in me always has believed that if you're going to have a mediocre team, it better have in-state kids on it. If a team is winning, the home states of the major contributors isn't as important.

Another way to look at it -- only slightly less cynical -- is that people who are looking for reasons to be unhappy with a program and/or coach that isn't winning "enough," and not recruiting decent in-state kids is a good one.
While there's some truth to that statement, I'm not convinced that ISU has been that much better, since Frans been here. Not just talking about this years win either. The last several years have been pretty good hard fought games, and believe that the BIG has been more competitive top to bottom then the Big12. Just my two cents.
 
This won't sit well with a lot of posters here, but I think one reason for that is the relative success of the two programs in recent years. The cynic in me always has believed that if you're going to have a mediocre team, it better have in-state kids on it. If a team is winning, the home states of the major contributors isn't as important.

Another way to look at it -- only slightly less cynical -- is that people who are looking for reasons to be unhappy with a program and/or coach that isn't winning "enough," and not recruiting decent in-state kids is a good one.

Interesting thoughts. My personal opinion is it is a false argument to say that anyone has ever complained that McCaffery doesn't take enough Iowa players. And the record proves it, imo. You know who Iowa recruited as well as I so I don't have to remind about the two years we took no Iowa kid on scholarship.

But something like 1 1/2 years ago McCaffery had two instate players commit at nearly the same time, Bohannon and Kriener. And that started the complaining about signing instate players.

That argument has been walked back some recently thanks to Bohannon's success and Kriener's potential. I haven't mentioned Pemsl as he committed early. But there were plenty of posts about how we needed to dump him due to his career ending injuries.

As to the argument that Iowa takes too many? LOL, yeah I'd take a Jok again. I'm glad Uthoff returned to Iowa. And I'm looking forward to the future with our young guys. What's left? Woody? People that know basketball a little know how valuable he was. Not many guys left and most holdovers from the previous coaches recruiting.

As to what Iowa State does. We've already seen an interest in Iowa high school kids from your current coach. Your previous coach had other ideas on where to locate players. Hey, it's personal preference. I do enjoy thinking about how we've got guys from Dubuque, Marion, Bettendorf, Spirit Lake...and more coming. I think it is pretty neat but can separate that pleasure from winning, which I don't care where the guys come from if they can win games and be good students.

So to conclude, I offer a different take. This board has predominantly three types of posters.

Iowa fans. Homers if you want to call us that. Kool-Aid drinkers, black and gold glasses wearers, optimists, whatever the current term. Usually posters who end up being questioned about their IQ or ability to see things with less than clouded vision. Oddly enough, posters who have ended up correct about what results were coming ab out nine times out of ten.

Complainers. And yes, they have a right to be critical as do all of us. But one would think that after awhile being constantly wrong would get tiring.

Iowa State fans. Amazingly they prowl the board and seem to believe this is the Iowa vs Iowa State board. And they've done a great job if their idea was to alienate fans who would see Iowa State as an alternative to root for when not playing the Hawkeyes. They've po'd posters like me, permanently. I'd pay Iowa Taxes, and I live out of state, to help finance a paving of the Iowa State Campus to turn it into a landfill. Understand, even if a Hawkeye fans FEELS like mentioning Iowa State such as the OP did in this thread, I no longer believe that even qualifies as an invite for the Mustard and Ketchup loving types to reply. No longer, Lone Clone, even you.

I guess the board is lucky, or not, if I had all the money to burn that I needed I'd make Kakert a rich man and buy this thing. I'd have full time agents moderating the board and if they sniffed a State fan the order would be to launch the hackers onto the them and destroy their lives!

But, I'm getting ahead of myself...I mean, I'm just kind of enjoying a little pipe dream (comments about what is in the pipe accepted).

Down with State. Go Hawkeyes. And keep getting the talented instate players no matter the complainers who's record of being correct is about 10% of the time. :)
 
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This won't sit well with a lot of posters here, but I think one reason for that is the relative success of the two programs in recent years. The cynic in me always has believed that if you're going to have a mediocre team, it better have in-state kids on it. If a team is winning, the home states of the major contributors isn't as important.

Another way to look at it -- only slightly less cynical -- is that people who are looking for reasons to be unhappy with a program and/or coach that isn't winning "enough," and not recruiting decent in-state kids is a good one.
This is not a recent thing, as also applies to football.
 
For those that ever follow Fanatic which I do about every other day for laughs CyTwins rips the Hawks and their recruits all the time. And lies and goes after recruits. I have been begged by gridiron Clones to out him to shut him up. His name is Brandon Grandgenette and he is from Carroll not Ankeny. And he has no job except to post against the Hawks on Fanatic and he has CyTwins plates. Look at his Twitter account and his recent picture and he definitely looks the douche he is.
 
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