Conversation of the Future?

[Eternal Return]

I'll start this off provocatively.

How much name/image/likeness money would Garza have made over the past year after winning all of those awards at the end of last season? Im guessing millions.

How much money has Bohannon lost by not having those financial rights while he's been a Hawkeye? Tens of thousands? Over a hundred thousand? More than that even? Just think if players could charge for their own YouTube channels?

Its not necessarily a fun subject to discuss, but it's gonna be the future for college basketball players. And, overall, I think it's good news for college basketball players AND college basketball fans for a number of reasons.

For one thing, there's money to be made as a local/state/regional celebrity so guys who are really good but not NBA caliber can find lucrative business opportunities by being a key player on a team with a lot of fans with money to spend. That could encourage players to stop transferring as much because one-year deals are just not as attractive from a marketing perspective. Long-term stars -- in the case of college players that's four or five years -- are better investments than one-year stars. Bohannon was a fan favorite as freshman and has been popular ever since.

But the biggest benefit for fans may be that it should cut down on the number of one-and-dones as well as dissuading guys like Joe W from going pro early. The rush to go pro is made less attractive if one is receiving significant income from name/likeness/image while in college. Garza, especially, may have made more money as a Hawkeye than he ever will in the NBA.

For the past year, he would have had national commercial appeal which means millions. If other players in Garza's position who are projected as late-first or second round NBA draft prospects are allowed to make money while in college they may choose to stay four years because it's a sound financial decision.

Guys like Zion and Ja Morant are still going to go pro as soon as they are eligible, but guys like Garza, Joe W, Tyler Cook, and similar guys from other colleges could make more as college stars than they'd make professionally between the ages of 18-22. We'll all appreciate this if a guy like Keegan Murray looks like he's ready to go pro next year or after his junior year but isn't a sure-fire bet for the first round so he sticks around for four years and maybe even into grad school to get his degree while making good money from his name/likeness/image.

I'm sure there will be a number of anticipated and unforeseen consequences that won't be so positive, but it's gonna happen eventually so may as well look at how this could be beneficial for all involved, from players to universities to fans.

 

[JerseyCityHawki]

Good post but holy longgggg

 

[HawkLogic]

The NCAA encouraged the NBA to drop the rule of 1 year of college before drafting and there is a league in development for top HS kids. The quality of the NCAA tourney product is down a little, but the competitive landscape is evening out and I think we see that in this year's NCAA results. The Blue Bloods are running on lower tier top talent (top 50 in nation instead of NBA lottery picks) and than still getting them for only 1 year if they do well...so I think that model might be going away...not good for CoachK and Calipari.

I don't mind allowing these young athletes to profit from name/images, but it has to be done in way to keep a
fair/level competitive field. Otherwise, the Biggest population Market universities/richest booster Universities...like the OSU will end up dominating...a new set of Blue Bloods for universities based in population centers. Iowa is more a niche/local market, still profitable but not mega profitable potential like Wisconsin, Ohio St, Indiana. Also you have schools like Oregon backed by Billionaire money, so money buys talent.

 

[markfromj]

Will destroy team concept.

 

[AwkHawk]

As was mentioned, this just makes the problem worse of some schools paying for top talent. We’ve scratched the surface of how much this already happens illegally.

Now imagine it when it can be done in broad daylight where Kansas can say “sign with us an this booster will ‘hire’ you to advertise for his business and pay you $2 million dollars”

College kids do really dumb stuff (we’ve all been there) and when you give them $2 million there is a lot more dumb stuff they will do. I certainly wouldn’t want to be a coach of a bunch of 18 year olds with millions of dollars.

 

[hooper56]

I suppose firms will pop up to help athletes profit off their name/image for a % of the profits. I don’t like where this is headed.

 

[IllQChawk]

Drugs and hookers would run rampant...

 

[Pepperman]

I suppose firms will pop up to help athletes profit off their name/image for a % of the profits. I don’t like where this is headed.

I think the fact that most of us don’t like where it is headed should cause the NCAA to pause. A free education and getting to play on TV while being a local celebrity should be enough for these kids. Otherwise, quit and see how many are desperate to have your place.

 

[AwkHawk]

I think the fact that most of us don’t like where it is headed should cause the NCAA to pause. A free education and getting to play on TV while being a local celebrity should be enough for these kids. Otherwise, quit and see how many are desperate to have your place.

Yes, if the player’s likeness is worth so much then why don’t they just quit and go make that money.

Most of these kid’s likeness value comes solely from them playing on the team. The ones that have likeness value without the team go pro.

I don’t understand why a free college education (which clearly they don’t understand the value of and never will because they don’t have to watch chunks of their paycheck go into the void each month) and free food, best facilities, tutoring, etc. and likely a great job right out of college isn’t enough.

 

[StormHawk42]

There’s always going to be pros and cons to the argument. But at the end of the day, I think about someone like Caitlin Clark or Spencer Lee who will never be as marketable as they are right now (unless Lee wins the Olympics). Is there a reason Clark shouldn’t be able to host a basketball camp or Lee can’t do a commercial? Doesn’t really make any sense when you think about it on those levels.

I never buy the slippery slope argument.

 

[hknation]

"......Never buy the slippery slope argument."

The only cliche that will prevail after this future conversation plays out is the hind sight argument. One side of the argument will get to say, "see, I told you so."

 

[Eternal Return]

People who think the money will spoil the kids are apparently unfamiliar with the young ones making bank with ridiculous things like reaction videos on YouTube. We live in America, a capitalist country, and everyone is arguing against making money. The reason most people go to college is to gain the skills necessary to make money in any given field. No one seems to worry about the guys going pro early and earning a lot of money.

To the guy who said why not quit and make money, it's obvious that playing the game is how they're making money. The universities themselves can sign their own players to licensing agreements where they get a percentage of the apparel and other merch with their NIL on it.

And the hooker and blow idea -- yeah, that's never been a problem for college athletes undr the current system, right? And who says universities will need to provide 12 scholarships after players can make money? Maybe they'll just sign guys to licensing rights agreements and it'll add up to more than the scholarship was worth while freeing up more scholarships for other sports that aren't financially so lucrative.

And it's not just male athletes. What about Caitlin Clark? You can't tell me that her merch wouldn't fly off the shelves in sporting goods stores across Iowa. Why shouldn't she and other female athletes benefit, too? There's more to be gained from this than lost. It's gonna be difficult for people used to the way things were, but the Internet, YouTube, and social media have changed everything in all fields.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

Drugs and hookers would run rampant...

ah....the NBA of the 70s

 

[Eternal Return]

Yes, if the player’s likeness is worth so much then why don’t they just quit and go make that money.

Most of these kid’s likeness value comes solely from them playing on the team. The ones that have likeness value without the team go pro.

I don’t understand why a free college education (which clearly they don’t understand the value of and never will because they don’t have to watch chunks of their paycheck go into the void each month) and free food, best facilities, tutoring, etc. and likely a great job right out of college isn’t enough.

It's not enough because specialists in basketball and other college sports aren't being allowed to make the money they could if they were allowed to participate in the free market. If I go to Iowa for a degree in finance, I'm not prevented from securities trading if I'm on scholarship. I don't see any reason why students playing sports should be limited in this way.

 

[AwkHawk]

It's not enough because specialists in basketball and other college sports aren't being allowed to make the money they could if they were allowed to participate in the free market. If I go to Iowa for a degree in finance, I'm not prevented from securities trading if I'm on scholarship. I don't see any reason why students playing sports should be limited in this way.

I get your point and see that side of it but they are allowed to go make money playing basketball/using their skills if they want, they just can’t participate in the NCAA.

They could certainly choose to hosts camps and go to school to get their degree. They just can’t play on the team.

They wouldn’t play if they weren’t getting something out of it. If someone did a job that pays $70,000/year and an employer was offering $10,000/year, no one would do it. If it really wasn’t worth it to these players they just wouldn’t do it.

 

[LeroyHawk]

It would be worth $0.00, because he would have gone somewhere else where he could "earn" more money than he could at Iowa!

 

[MAXIMUSHAWKEYE]

I'll start this off provocatively.

How much name/image/likeness money would Garza have made over the past year after winning all of those awards at the end of last season? Im guessing millions.

How much money has Bohannon lost by not having those financial rights while he's been a Hawkeye? Tens of thousands? Over a hundred thousand? More than that even? Just think if players could charge for their own YouTube channels?

Its not necessarily a fun subject to discuss, but it's gonna be the future for college basketball players. And, overall, I think it's good news for college basketball players AND college basketball fans for a number of reasons.

For one thing, there's money to be made as a local/state/regional celebrity so guys who are really good but not NBA caliber can find lucrative business opportunities by being a key player on a team with a lot of fans with money to spend. That could encourage players to stop transferring as much because one-year deals are just not as attractive from a marketing perspective. Long-term stars -- in the case of college players that's four or five years -- are better investments than one-year stars. Bohannon was a fan favorite as freshman and has been popular ever since.

But the biggest benefit for fans may be that it should cut down on the number of one-and-dones as well as dissuading guys like Joe W from going pro early. The rush to go pro is made less attractive if one is receiving significant income from name/likeness/image while in college. Garza, especially, may have made more money as a Hawkeye than he ever will in the NBA.

For the past year, he would have had national commercial appeal which means millions. If other players in Garza's position who are projected as late-first or second round NBA draft prospects are allowed to make money while in college they may choose to stay four years because it's a sound financial decision.

Guys like Zion and Ja Morant are still going to go pro as soon as they are eligible, but guys like Garza, Joe W, Tyler Cook, and similar guys from other colleges could make more as college stars than they'd make professionally between the ages of 18-22. We'll all appreciate this if a guy like Keegan Murray looks like he's ready to go pro next year or after his junior year but isn't a sure-fire bet for the first round so he sticks around for four years and maybe even into grad school to get his degree while making good money from his name/likeness/image.

I'm sure there will be a number of anticipated and unforeseen consequences that won't be so positive, but it's gonna happen eventually so may as well look at how this could be beneficial for all involved, from players to universities to fans.

Paying college players for their likeness. this is only going to help the big time programs even more. That have huge markets like the Michigan's the Ohio state's. The rich will just keep getting richer.

 

[anon_b29nm7v7dwp6r]

Pay the kids...let them make money if they are profitable....the fact that the kid could be making hundreds of thousands via a YouTube channel BEFORE college but have to give it up to play sports is mind boggling....

I don’t agree with JBo’s takes on much, but his position isn’t wrong on this.

 

[jberesford]

Just have zero restrictions on going pro. If you are good enough at what you do then go get paid for it. Bohannon's marketability is worth nothing without the Iowa fan base. He needed a theatre for his antics and the U of I provided it. He needed the opportunity to sell himself and his brand. Think anyone in the world would care about his Twitter if not for that?

Sure he could have achieved that elsewhere, just insert a different colleges name. College basketball made him, not the other way around. It would have been just fine without him.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I don't think Garza, or any other player, would make "millions" selling their likeness, although I'm sure he could have made thousands.

My concern is the preservation of college sports.

Allowing players to make money on their likenesses is just another blow to competitive balance. Regulating it would be extremely difficult - for example if a Ford dealer wants to pay $50,000 to be able to put Garza's picture on a poster, not because it's a smart businesses decision, but because the owner is a big Hawk fan and wants Garza to stay for another year. But, the dealer then deicides to pay JBo $25,000 for his likeness - now we have players competing with each other.

High school kids would be making business decisions when selecting a college. Existing players could enter the portal and see what kinds of offers flow in.

They say that the colleges make millions of dollars on their likenesses - really? How many athletic programs make a profit? Sure, coaches make a ton of money, but the rest of the revenue is spent back on the athletic programs - trying to make them better.

Every organization has to have boundaries to maintain the integrity of the organization. This is one of those boundaries, I don't think it's unfair at all.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Pay the kids...let them make money if they are profitable....the fact that the kid could be making hundreds of thousands via a YouTube channel BEFORE college but have to give it up to play sports is mind boggling....

Actually, I don't think it is

Say you are an independent consultant - you make money on clever and informative videos. You run ads to attract new clients. You write or speak for a fee.

Now, you are considering joining a consulting firm. You think that the prospects for improved income are increased being part of a bigger organization. More exposure, more resources, better benefits.

But now, the videos, articles, speaking engagements - all the revenue flows into the firm, and the firm controls the content. You now have to stay within the boundaries of your new organization. You can no longer have your own clients, they are property of the firm.

So, you evaluate the options and make a choice. If you make the wrong choice, you are free to consider your options again.

Players get to choose what to do, and they most often go to college because it is the best deal.

 

[tippet1]

If this ever gets passed, I would think there would be a minimum and maximum on how much a player could make. There are way too many variables with all of this.

 

[twindman]

I think something like a limit of $1000 a quarter and half goes to the other scholarship students on their team. This helps everyone, and still lets a kid make pretty good spending money.

 

[SB_SB]

Just have zero restrictions on going pro. If you are good enough at what you do then go get paid for it. Bohannon's marketability is worth nothing without the Iowa fan base. He needed a theatre for his antics and the U of I provided it. He needed the opportunity to sell himself and his brand. Think anyone in the world would care about his Twitter if not for that?

Sure he could have achieved that elsewhere, just insert a different colleges name. College basketball made him, not the other way around. It would have been just fine without him.

This is exactly correct and JBo is proving it. He's on record as saying he would come back if the rule passes. If he's so marketable, then why does he need to come back? He needs the team and the university in order to make his money. He's admitted he'll be in it for the money, so will he base his play on how much he thinks he can make off it, like shooting more or from farther out? This makes me wonder, was he always playing as hard as possible since he wasn't getting paid?

 

[hawkquiz]

I"m not comfortable at all with JBo's I'll come back if the bill passes quote. He could obviously get out in the real job market and make a heck of a lot more than off of his likeness. What is Iowa says, thanks but no thanks. How much can he make on his "likeness" if he transfers somewhere else? Not near as marketable as he would be here.
Actually he could make alot more money with the likeness thing if it passes, to start a company to basically "agent" his services to new college athletes for a percentage of there income. He's obviously a smart guy, started alot of this up, and got all the way to an Emmert meeting this week.

 

[retrodent]

Put the money in a pension ira - tax it high if withdrawn before 60???

 

[Eternal Return]

Paying college players for their likeness. this is only going to help the big time programs even more. That have huge markets like the Michigan's the Ohio state's. The rich will just keep getting richer.

Maybe. Or maybe students playing for schools like Loyola Chicago and Houston and Georgetown and other "small" schools in major cities will benefit. Or maybe states like Iowa, Nebraska, New Mexico, and other states without major pro sports teams will be more lucrative for college players compared to UCLA, Northwestern, Minnesota, Washington, who are in major sports team markets.

Or it could prove to solidify "national media" schools like Duke, UNC, Michigan, Ohio State, Kansas, etc., in which case nothing changes for fans or schools, but the students get to cash in on their own name and image on basketball jerseys, shoes, sports cards, etc. Other than tradition being ended, I don't see any problems with this. The U.S. is a capitalist country designed to get people circulating as many dollars between entities as possible as fast as possible. Allowing players to benefit from that system is the most American thing that could be done.

 

[anon_b29nm7v7dwp6r]

Actually, I don't think it is

Say you are an independent consultant - you make money on clever and informative videos. You run ads to attract new clients. You write or speak for a fee.

Now, you are considering joining a consulting firm. You think that the prospects for improved income are increased being part of a bigger organization. More exposure, more resources, better benefits.

But now, the videos, articles, speaking engagements - all the revenue flows into the firm, and the firm controls the content. You now have to stay within the boundaries of your new organization. You can no longer have your own clients, they are property of the firm.

So, you evaluate the options and make a choice. If you make the wrong choice, you are free to consider your options again.

Players get to choose what to do, and they most often go to college because it is the best deal.

And you don’t get it at all...what the current rules are like are if you were a GREAT consultant...but your true passion was smoking meat....and you had a nice business going on non working weekends where you would teach folks how to perfectly smoke food via YouTube videos....then your employer shuts it down because they claim it may not be your meat smoking prowess getting you all those views...it may be the fact you work for them....even though you have been smoking meat and posting videos 5 years before you walked through their doors...

read up on it: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/08/chl...college-athlete-to-monetize-her-likeness.html

 

[anon_b29nm7v7dwp6r]

Maybe. Or maybe students playing for schools like Loyola Chicago and Houston and Georgetown and other "small" schools in major cities will benefit. Or maybe states like Iowa, Nebraska, New Mexico, and other states without major pro sports teams will be more lucrative for college players compared to UCLA, Northwestern, Minnesota, Washington, who are in major sports team markets.

Or it could prove to solidify "national media" schools like Duke, UNC, Michigan, Ohio State, Kansas, etc., in which case nothing changes for fans or schools, but the students get to cash in on their own name and image on basketball jerseys, shoes, sports cards, etc. Other than tradition being ended, I don't see any problems with this. The U.S. is a capitalist country designed to get people circulating as many dollars between entities as possible as fast as possible. Allowing players to benefit from that system is the most American thing that could be done.

Exactly, and I used to be against all this....but I’ve woken up. At the very least prohibiting these players from cashing in on their own popularity is anti American

 

[Eternal Return]

Exactly, and I used to be against all this....but I’ve woken up. At the very least prohibiting these players from cashing in on their own popularity is anti American

That's funny, I was against it, too, up to a few years ago. I think it just became too painfully obvious just how much these student athletes we're being exploited for billions of dollars every year while being restricted from making money on, say, YouTube for their skills even as their peers were making money in high school posting videos of themselves doing whatever they were good at.

I started to think how absurd it would be if Julliard prohibited it's students from making money by acting or playing a musical instrument. It's absurd to prohibit students from deriving an income for the very talents and skills they are going to school for. Imagine a student on scholarship not being able to get a paid internship after their first and second years of law school? When I looked at it like that I realized how punitive it is to students to forbid them from making money related to their field while on scholarship. The reason universities exist is to help people go further in their field and to contribute to the field by doing so. It's counterintuitive to think otherwise, but the propaganda has been there for decades even as the Internet opened up a whole new world of opportunities for people, especially young people who have grown up with its existence.

 

[chuck285]

I think something like a limit of $1000 a quarter and half goes to the other scholarship students on their team. This helps everyone, and still lets a kid make pretty good spending money.

Now this is funny. Russia would love this and China. You can only make so much and then you give the rest to the government or others on your team who you don't even like....I like the idea if you want to use your likeness then you shouldn't be able to play in tournaments. JMO

 

[Eternal Return]

Now this is funny. Russia would love this and China. You can only make so much and then you give the rest to the government or others on your team who you don't even like....I like the idea if you want to use your likeness then you shouldn't be able to play in tournaments. JMO

Not only that, but don't bet against guys on the bench. How many T-shirts, jerseys, baseball hats, etc., with Joe T's name and likeness could he have sold this year if the fans clamoring for him on this forum alone are representative of a decent-sized statewide niche market? Hell, even Austin Ash, who wasn't on scholarship, could have made some money on merch alone this year, let alone TV ads and the like. For good or bad, even the bench players are among the biggest statewide celebrities while they are on the roster.

Because the university IS providing a platform, the situation is more like the NBA or the NFL in terms of creating stars out of players. So is the Big Ten. So is the NCAA. It's just the players who aren't paid. In this case, let the players see what they can get on the open market for their NIL while they are on scholarship. It's the same in other fields so why not basketball?

And given that in today's world amateur and professional athletes have well-established paths to being marketed FOR FREE more by sites like these and ESPN, CBS, BTN, radio talk shows nationwide, and so on, the field of business opportunities is wide open for student athletes willing and able to market themselves.


It makes sense from an educational perspective for a student on a basketball scholarship to simultaneously attain a degree in marketing, communications, broadcasting, management, or any other field that helps enhance the abilities of sports celebrities to financially and/or entrepreneurially succeed in various fields or professions. It also enables students interested in less financially lucrative but societally important fields like social work, teaching, counseling, etc., to financially attain at least a middle-class income while doing that work.

It seems to me that there are a plethora of social and economic benefits for the players and many others in the statewide economy--which can mean more jobs overall, more income coming in-state, more student athletes graduating and staying in Iowa for business and professional opportunities that may not exist out-of-state in the long run.

Each student playing will have to navigate it like any other level of celebrity does, but in places like Iowa there are chances to make a lot more money than in markets with more sports celebrities with high profiles. I can only think of non-pro-team states where college bench players have fanbases large enough to actually profit significantly for their name and likeness. How many just here on this site would likely buy merch for themselves, their kids, birthday and Christmas presents, etc., with a shirt or hat or onesie with an Austin Ash or Joe T or "The Murrays" (think of the marketing opportunities for star twins???)? I think it would be substantial.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

And you don’t get it at all...what the current rules are like are if you were a GREAT consultant...but your true passion was smoking meat....and you had a nice business going on non working weekends where you would teach folks how to perfectly smoke food via YouTube videos....then your employer shuts it down because they claim it may not be your meat smoking prowess getting you all those views...it may be the fact you work for them....even though you have been smoking meat and posting videos 5 years before you walked through their doors...

read up on it: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/08/chl...college-athlete-to-monetize-her-likeness.html

I do get it. You said they were making money before they joined the team, correct? Well, they could have continued to do that and not enrolled in a school - try to make all the money they can if that's the route they wanted to go. But, once you join and organization, you need to abide by their rules - even the one's you don't like or think are unfair.

The accounting/consulting firm I worked for for 35 years did not allow partners or employees to earn outside income. So, we got to choose whether we wanted to make fabulous meat smoking videos or work for this firm, but you couldn't do both.

Was that fair? Yes, I think it was in this case. Is it common? Probably not - but I don't think it's mind boggling.

 

[twindman]

I think another big problem could be team dissension and jealousy. Suppose someone like Luka or JBo made so much extra cash they could by a new >$100,000 Corvette. Don't you suppose the others would have some issue since they work just as hard and are very good but not QUITE as good. Just sayin' - people are human and we can sometimes be envious and dislike the teammate. It could just ruin a tight knit team.

 

[anon_qczsdwtnv6esw]

A lot of you talk about how much Bohannon could make off his likeness. If he could make soooo much than there is nothing stopping him right now from making these large amounts of cash since he’s done with school. Having 30k followers on Instagram and Twitter really isn’t much. A podcast makes no money without large sponsors. A YouTube channel with 50 views is meaningless.
He wants to stay one more year to solely make money off the back of the school sport. He knows he can’t make the money without the help of the school because if he could he would!

 

[chuck285]

My question would be, who sets the price on a tee shirt and how much a player would get from each sale. And then how and who would collect these funds and get them to the proper athlete and then he would have to pay taxes on everything he collect. Would each student have to have an accountant? And could each athlete except these payouts or could he turn them down? I doubt the University's will furnish an accountant for these athletes to be sure everything is done properly? So is it worth $100 for 90% of the athletes to get what's coming to them... I think it's just better that they keep getting the McD bag of money they get now..
And what about the lawsuits from the women's association that they aren't getting the same amount as Garza?

 

[HawkRugged17]

I think another big problem could be team dissension and jealousy. Suppose someone like Luka or JBo made so much extra cash they could by a new >$100,000 Corvette. Don't you suppose the others would have some issue since they work just as hard and are very good but not QUITE as good. Just sayin' - people are human and we can sometimes be envious and dislike the teammate. It could just ruin a tight knit team.

Here was a response by JBo to a similar question/Tweet

 

[AwkHawk]

Here was a response by JBo to a similar question/Tweet

View embedded media

I don’t think it is necessarily a main issue to NIL, but JBo’s response doesn’t really make sense to me. A head coach is the boss of assistant coaches. Bosses often make more then employees. The HC is also in charge of the players/authority figure in a locker room.

Not the same as players on a team where some will make nothing and other could make millions. It’s even different than an NBA locker room where everyone is making huge amounts of money.

Additionally, playing time has always caused problems throughout history. It is why many players transfer—and there is no shortage of that this year. Not every bench player thinks they should be on the bench.

Am I misunderstanding what he is saying?

 

[SDHawkDoc]

While I agree there is some relevance with the employment analogies, it doesn't hold up in the end because these players aren't really employees. And I don't think the universities would want to classify them as employees and own the situation that would create.

 

[sbhawk64]

Do we pay student research assistants if their drug makes money down the road? What is the solution for women athletics who play a sport that makes no money. Other than a few schools who make money in girls basketball, female sport lose money. Only men basketball and football make money other than a few sport outliers ex Iowa wrestling, Southern baseball etc.

I guess if they do start paying them which will result to the end of that sport as we know it, I will bow out like I have in pro sports. Then I wont have to worry about it any longer, lol