CP Defending SLee
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Dan Gable was considered the best by many and he only won two. I think @Inthecircle ‘s point was that goat talk is very much opinion based. It seems you have yours.
Agreed. However, I’d list Gable, Dave Schultz, John Smith and Jordan Burroughs before any Four time NCAA champ. In my opinion GOAT has to include International competition before and after college.
This. Don’t kill me but a healthy SL techs randy Lewis. I said it. Come at me lol
Barely top 20 even at Iowa all time?! I want what you are drinking man. Come on. Meant to quote MAGAman, not you Inthecircle.
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I've inferred from this guy's recent posts in a variety of threads that he is incoherent and likely living in a nursing home and should have parental controls on his internet access.
Yojiro Uetake Obata seems to get lost in these discussions as well.
Undefeated 3x National Champion in college, he also won an Olympic Golf Medal after his sophomore year.
Not sure how anyone can exclude him from the top tier in any all time college list.
He’s talked about a lot on here. Please someone pull the race card….. bc we had the Williams bros… and Montell…and Edwin cooper. Take that.
You have made a few good points in your previous points, but now Your argument has no more validity. To not acknowledge how good he is considering the fact that he could never train fully is just stupid or naïve.
Granted we do take in consideration that he has never been healthy and other wrestlers have been hurt also. Spencer will be back and healthy in do time, when he smokes all the guys you believe to be on the same level as him or better than him, then we can restart this conversation.
Been reading this forum for years, and just wanted to talk wrestling. That being said, I think it's crazy to think a healthy Spencer is not in the GOAT conversation. Unfortunately, wrestling is not about what ifs. I don't mean that as a knock at all on the talent, just the way it is. I thought Chance would be in that conversation coming out of high school. Same with maybe even Ashnault. Both of those didn't pan out, but didn't receive nearly the scrutiny. Iowa is going to always have more eyes on its program.
I have watched a lot of these guys wrestle since they were little kids. Spencer is one of the greatest I've ever seen. Clearly Tom saw the same thing. I've never heard him call anyone the GOAT before Spencer. And he has seen quite a few wrestlers in his time lol.
I'm not an Iowa fan, nor am I an Iowa hater. I'm a biased Pennsylvania wrestling fan admittedly. I do believe Spencer would have gotten the same scrutiny at most schools he would have gone to. Iowa is just going to be worse in my opinion. Not just because so many people hate the program, but also because the program and coaches are kinda known for their success in the lighter weights. Just my opinion.
Sorry for the long post. I'm new here and just love to talk wrestling.
I have watched a lot of these guys wrestle since they were little kids. Spencer is one of the greatest I've ever seen. Clearly Tom saw the same thing. I've never heard him call anyone the GOAT before Spencer. And he has seen quite a few wrestlers in his time lol.
I'm not an Iowa fan, nor am I an Iowa hater. I'm a biased Pennsylvania wrestling fan admittedly. I do believe Spencer would have gotten the same scrutiny at most schools he would have gone to. Iowa is just going to be worse in my opinion. Not just because so many people hate the program, but also because the program and coaches are kinda known for their success in the lighter weights. Just my opinion.
Sorry for the long post. I'm new here and just love to talk wrestling.
Most if not all wrestlers go into season snd nationals banged up. Both less and worse than SL. My take is SL looks amazing till he doesnt then the excuses fly. Flu, mono, this knee, that knee, mentally….etc. between coaches, SL and his dad i cant keep up with the excuses. At US open he looked amazing until he had to face suriano. Then incapable of competing. Those 12 iowa wrestlers i listed ahead of him would need to be dead not to compete or finish a tourney. From the savana friday round robin to US open.
Also for someone to say tech Ramdy L or anyone on that list is crazy. SL would not get 10 pt lead on any of them to coast in 2nd 3rd petiod when gas tank is empty. Everyone on list had 30 min gas tanks. Most scored in bunches 3rd period…ie. brands’, ironside, juergens….on and on.
Also most those guys could move up a weight class and at times did. SL wouldnt of placed higher than 4th at 133 on any of his runs. This year he may not made podium. Barely did at 125.
Do you think three ACL tears are an excuse? An excuse for what? For only winning three NCAA titles and two Hodge trophies? Are you an idiot or just a troll?
Remind us again of your credentials for making these kinds of pronouncements. I'm sure that we'll all be impressed.
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Suriano won the natty at 133 in 2019. The same Suriano that SL beat the previous year to win the title at 125.
Also there have been several to tear acls and win or finish season(no WDs). They were either just better or msnaged properly through it. You pick?
Maga just made my ignorant Ignorance list…. name like that alone is irritating
Nolf
Yanni
Lewis
Oconor
Many more that dont constantly advertise it promote themselves on it and use it as excuse.
Btw a few like dake, gable(hwt), burroughs etc could win no matter what limb you take away….just tougher.
Oh and they can wrestle for 7 min and beyond.
Your criticism of the name explains alot to me on your level of knowledge. Makes sense. Sorry brother but if you need assistance with logic and common sense ill help you out anytime.
I’ve been reading your posts since you started your anti Spencer diatribes. I don’t believe you to be an Iowa fan and definitely not a SL fan. Going to have to put you on ignore. Your combative ignorant posts are a waste of everyone’s time.
maga is not a hawk fan. he’s a loser in his mom’s basement who is trying to get a rise out of people.
Joined April 29. Under 50 posts. He’s on ignore.
Notable athletes whose careers were cut short
The sports world was stunned by the recent retirement of quarterback Andrew Luck. The careers of many freakishly talented athletes have been sidetracked by injuries, leaving fans to wonder what might have been.
www.yardbarker.com
To be the GOAT staying healthy is part of package . It's why Barry Sanders or Jim Brown are talked about when that conversation happens, not Gale Sayers.
Same thing with a guy like Nolan Ryan vs say Sandy Koufax. There are scores of athletes that people ask what if they only stayed healthy when this conversation comes up.
Fan of both. Just have reality button. Unlike you and most on here.
agree. Its the durability of the athlete over ability most times.Notable athletes whose careers were cut short
The sports world was stunned by the recent retirement of quarterback Andrew Luck. The careers of many freakishly talented athletes have been sidetracked by injuries, leaving fans to wonder what might have been.
To be the GOAT staying healthy is part of package . It's why Barry Sanders or Jim Brown are talked about when that conversation happens, not Gale Sayers.
Same thing with a guy like Nolan Ryan vs say Sandy Koufax. There are scores of athletes that people ask what if they only stayed healthy when this conversation comes up.
Lewis had a knee injury last season but I never saw anything that said it was an ACL. He's coming back next year so whatever it was, it could not have been that serious. Yanni got injured in the tournament so he didn't have to wrestle very long with it and Nolf never needed surgery
By the way, how many of them ever won anything with no ACLs at all?
While we're at it, let's talk about that other lie you've been repeating. Get it straight: Lee never had any problems with conditioning in his first two seasons. Before his knees got totally ripped up he could do this:
And this:
And don't forget about this. By the way, he got the fall at 6:04.
If Spencer Lee had Daton Fix's knees, we wouldn't be having this conversation MAGAmoran. He'd have four titles, be on his way to the Olympics and you would just be under your rock, talking to yourself and doing whatever it is you do when you're not trolling here.
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This is only one way of looking at the issue of athletic greatness, In his Baseball Almanac, Bill James made a clear distinction betweee "career value" vs. "peak value". Career value makes sense if you are putting together something like a hall of fame. But, in some cases, a wrestler with a higher peak value could definitely defeat a wrestler with a higher career value if they were somehow able to compete at their very best.Notable athletes whose careers were cut short
The sports world was stunned by the recent retirement of quarterback Andrew Luck. The careers of many freakishly talented athletes have been sidetracked by injuries, leaving fans to wonder what might have been.
To be the GOAT staying healthy is part of package . It's why Barry Sanders or Jim Brown are talked about when that conversation happens, not Gale Sayers.
Same thing with a guy like Nolan Ryan vs say Sandy Koufax. There are scores of athletes that people ask what if they only stayed healthy when this conversation comes up.
To me, that is the true definition of greatness - not necessarily how much they won, but, heat to head, who would win. That's my opinion and others will disagree. That's ok. That's their opinion.
Agree, but when would you say was Spencer's peak? He had one undefeated, NCAA championship season in his career - 2021, when he went 12-0 beating Brandon Courtney in the finals. That's not a strong case compared to many others.
Personally, I think his peak was probably earlier, but in his first two NCAA championship seasons he lost 5 matches. Dominant when he won, but lost more than a bunch of guys did in their entire careers in those 2 years.
Now I will get lambasted on here by a vocal few, but those are facts.
Spencer Lee is an amazing talent and as nice a kid as you could ever find. That you seem to find joy in his failure speaks poorly of you, not him.
