David himself said the recruitting of WR has picked up and he personally knows Iowa has some talent. David is saying he doesnt need a race ready motor he just wants to see something that fires on all the cylinders it has.
David Bell hits nail on the head describing his own recruitment at Iowa.
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Actually a very astute and telling comment from a teen.
Iowa is not going to be a pass happy, run and shoot O that routinely puts 40+ points on the board. But, they can absolutely show improvement from the overall abysmal performance, at the WR position in particular.
That's how I took his comment.
Iowa is not going to be a pass happy, run and shoot O that routinely puts 40+ points on the board. But, they can absolutely show improvement from the overall abysmal performance, at the WR position in particular.
That's how I took his comment.
True, but a lot of those 4 and 5 star kids don't pan out and the ones that do are the kids who listen and let their position coaches help them develop. We have had quite a few 3 star kids get drafted( Denzel Ward) and those guys are some of my favorites, so to me stars don't really matter.
Chicken & egg. Iowa could be better at passing if it had highly talented WR's. Highly talented WR's are not interested in Iowa because they aren't good at passing the ball.
If I were a 4 star WR that was leaving his home state, there are a bunch of programs that would look better than Iowa.
If I were a 4 star WR that was leaving his home state, there are a bunch of programs that would look better than Iowa.
No offense, but this is the most Ohio State thing ever. And I know you mean well.
I don’t pay attention to stars, we even have 3 stars get drafted.
Stars dont matter when you are loaded with 4 and 5 stars. To put this into perspective you just used a 3 star as a feel good story. It's like when the people who have more money than they know what to do talk about money not mattering. OSU develops talent like most teams in the country Iowa has to polish a little harder most of the time.
It's not about changing it's about performing what they are asking. Think about how much different we would be talking about this offense if Stanley's completion percentage was 65 compared to 58%. (I think 58 is what he ended at)
Edit: I will say I thought our ratio was closer to 50/50 than the 58% run another poster provided. I would attribute this to not alot of confidence in the passing game early in the season. I think we will be closer to 52/48 this year.
Edit: I will say I thought our ratio was closer to 50/50 than the 58% run another poster provided. I would attribute this to not alot of confidence in the passing game early in the season. I think we will be closer to 52/48 this year.
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My Facts:
- Myer is a slick salesman. He will state what the recruit wants to hear more than what the reality is...such as Ferentz (just my perception, no known fact).
- OSU has a "reputation" of success which helps in recruiting. Myer has done well. Proof is in their record.
- Most 4/5 star players think they can come in an start/contribute on day 1.
- OSU has more 4/5 star recruits who are easier to plug into the depth chart than developmental players at Iowa
- Iowa's recruiting has improved significantly the last 3 classes
- For a good passing game, you need a good OL, QB, and WR's. Iowa has not always had all 3 of them on a given year. We tend to have a decent offense every 2-3 years, then a developmental year. Hopefully with new coaches and better talent, we can minimize this.
- I believe Iowa is one or 2 recruiting classes away from being consistent in having depth to plug in from year to year.
- With this consistency, our passing game will be more consistent to Bell's liking.
- Last year, Iowa did open up there offense somewhat, went on 4th down much more, and ran some trick plays on special teams. With more depth and strength, I think Brian will install more of these plays.
- I believe our future is looking up. I am not one of those "glass is half empty" hawkeye fans who have commented above.
I do think its interesting that a lot of people, including U Meyer evidently think he invented recruiting at OSU or in the BIG. I've been watching BIG football since the late 60's and it seems to me that OSU and Michigan have always recruited well, at least for the most part. I think any good coach could recruit for OSU, (Yes even KF). As for how well Meyer's done at OSU, its all relative to expectations, don't you think? What do you suppose are the OSU's fan bases expectations for the Buckeyes?
Since the inception of the BIG championship game in 2011, (7 games) here's the break down of combatents.
Wisconsin 5 games, MSU 3 games, OSU 3 games, Iowa 1 game, PSU 1 game, Nebraska 1 game. My way of looking at that is that Wisconsin and MSU have exceeded expectations. I don't know that I could say that about OSU. Maybe thats just me though..
Still a fun sidenote that Michigan has yet to play for the title.......
I moreso meant do we think that era would be enough for him to consider that we are passing the ball?
From what we hear from recruits who are interviewed, they say Urban is very up front with them, he always tells them to look around at other schools before they pull the trigger for the Buckeyes and if he thinks they need to improve in certain areas then he doesn't offer them a scholarship just because Alabama or Clemson has offered them. I'll admit, I didn't like the Urban Meyer that was at Florida either, but since he's been at Ohio State, he has changed some of his ways and he seems like a pretty straight shooter. The kids are for the most part staying out of trouble and the program is one of the best in the country, Sure there are going to be people who don't like him or OSU fans in general, but the guy is a winner and I wouldn't trade him for any other coach in America, not even Nick Satan....
As long we win games, I don't care if they're no stars. Yes, we maybe a little spoiled by the 4 and 5 stars, but I have seen a lot of 5 stars not live up to the hype, so it really doesn't matter what they're ranked in high school...
Not to rag on you Buck, but that seem a little disengenuos from a fan of the team who leads the conference, and most all of college football EVERY year in recruiting ranking. I can't imagine the shit storm in Columbus if OSU started having classes ranked where Iowa is every year.
The problem is if you compare Iowa to both Indiana & Purdue last season, Iowa was the least balanced offense of the three. We ran the ball nearly 58% of the offensive snaps, Purdue was at ~48% and Indiana was at ~47%
Iowa was the imbalanced offense of those three.
kceasthawk,
Wisconsin benefited from a lousy OSU team in 2011 who went 6-7 and the next year (Urban's first year) we went 12-0, but could not participate in the post season, so I think that's why Wisconsin looks like they've done more, but the two times we have faced them in the BIG Championship game have been OSU victories. Penn State and Mich State are in the East which is a very tough division. No one cares about TTUN, they suck and I don't care if they ever make it to the BIG Championship game..lol
Nothing personal, but I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest Urban Meyer hasn't changed as much as your perspective has once he landed in Columbus. Funny how that works.
Honestly, I'm not a Buckeye hater and always pull for them in bowls or when playing nonconference opponents like Oklahoma. Urban Meyer still rubs me the wrong way. And I wish he had stayed in the SEC. If it helps, I think Harbarf is worse.
My biggest beef with UM is his smug belief that he's the reason he's had great recruiting at tOSU. The recruiting classes there were top notch before him and they will be after him. You don't recruit at tOSU, you select. To stand there and preach that the rest of the B10 needs to up their recruiting game is like a trust fund baby driving a Porsche telling average income folks driving sedans that they need to improve their driving skills.
This may have been covered elsewhere in the thread, but Iowa will make room for Bell regardless of when he wants to commit. He is likely the top overall target on Iowa’s entire recruiting board. They aren’t going to turn him away because they got a commit from one or two other receivers, no matter how small of a class this is projected to be.
KCNot to rag on you Buck, but that seem a little disengenuos from a fan of the team who leads the conference, and most all of college football EVERY year in recruiting ranking. I can't imagine the shit storm in Columbus if OSU started having classes ranked where Iowa is every year.
Of course Columbus would explode if that were to happen, but I judge it by what they do on the field. If we sign the number 1 class in the country, so what, we don't get a trophy for it and if those kids don't live up to those lofty rankings, then what good is it.
Last year when we came to Kinnick...how did all those 4 and 5 star kids do ( to be fair that debacle was squarely on Urban's head) but how many times has Ohio State walked into Kinnick and left with a victory? Quite a few, but on that day we were out coached and out played, that's why I don't get too high or too low about where we finish in recruiting.
The Hawks do need to improve the offense through the passing game. We need more drives to end in scores and that is done by moving the sticks more consistently. There is a great opportunity to do this next season with improved receiver play. While I understand the chicken or the egg argument, the opportunity to make a quantum leap as it were exists for the 2018 season. Benefits can be reaped all around. Our offense can be much more potent with even marginal improvements, of which the receiving corp must play a prominent role. As Bell pointed out in his own case, it would also improve our recruiting at a position of great need. And of course more winning should accompany improved offense.
Winning is the bottom line. Not only does Bell want to see more passing but he also wants to win. Excitement in winning is also a factor for a big play receiver. I hope we can do just enough of this in 2018 to win him over and convince him of the great opportunity here. Indeed he will need to prove himself if he plays here.
Though I can't see the staff taking much motivation from what a recruit says, It may behoove the program to heed what Bell has said and accept the challenge to better the passing game. I know they already realize the need to get better, but the time is now and Bell can be a reason to do so now.
Winning is the bottom line. Not only does Bell want to see more passing but he also wants to win. Excitement in winning is also a factor for a big play receiver. I hope we can do just enough of this in 2018 to win him over and convince him of the great opportunity here. Indeed he will need to prove himself if he plays here.
Though I can't see the staff taking much motivation from what a recruit says, It may behoove the program to heed what Bell has said and accept the challenge to better the passing game. I know they already realize the need to get better, but the time is now and Bell can be a reason to do so now.
And good for you being level headed about it, but honestly its really easy to make that narrative, when you clearly don't have the problem your talking about. You can say that you don't care about how many stars your recruits have, but that would probably not be your stance, (or anyone else's in Buckeye land), if you had to scratch and develop your way to be competetive like some of the other teams, (like Iowa) do every year.
The "we're just lil ole Iowa" brainwashing is almost as harmful to the program as Barta.
Sorry, but I don't agree with your point at all. I'm not "little old Iowa" it at all. Its pretty simple. Take a look at the last 50 years of recruiting. Which 5 or 6 schools get most of the 4 and 5 star players? Not Iowa. Give what ever reasons you want. Its a historical FACT. Simply going "All Fleck" and saying were going to be Alabama in a couple of years isn't going to make it a reality. Nothing I say on this board will have an effect in either direction on recruiting, anymore then people simply saying we should be able to get the same recruits as OSU is going to make it happen.
Some raw data from which to attempt to infer trends. I focused on recent data and then data from the tail-end of O'Keefe's time as OC. The O'Keefe data is important because it gives us a better "flavor" of Brian's O. Also, it doesn't hurt, because O'Keefe's also the guy who's coaching our QBs.
2017: (B. Ferentz first year OC, first year SO QB)
3rd down percentage = 33.44%
Redzone TD percentage = 65.3% (49 attempts)
Passing yards = 2473 yards (190.23 ypg)
Total yards = 4283 (329.5 ypg)
Passing TDs = 27
2016: (G. Davis OC, veteran SR QB)
3rd down percentage = 32.37%
Redzone TD percentage = 65.9% (41 attempts)
Passing yards = 1991 yards (153.15 ypg)
Total yards = 4225 (325 ypg)
Passing TDs = 17
2015: (G. Davis OC, experienced JR QB)
3rd down percentage = 41.67%
Redzone TD percentage = 64.8% (54 attempts)
Passing yards = 2862 yards (204.43 ypg)
Total yards = 5406 (386.1 ypg)
Passing TDs = 17
2011: (K. O'Keefe OC, experienced JR QB)
3rd down percentage = 39.76%
Redzone TD percentage = 63.3% (49 attempts)
Passing yards = 3052 yards (234.77 ypg)
Total yards = 4842 (372.5 ypg)
Passing TDs = 25
2010: (K. O'Keefe OC, veteran SR QB)
3rd down percentage = 46.20%
Redzone TD percentage = 63.3% (49 attempts)
Passing yards = 3049 yards (234.54 ypg)
Total yards = 4978 (382.9 ypg)
Passing TDs = 26
2009: (K. O'Keefe OC, experienced JR QB)
3rd down percentage = 38.25%
Redzone TD percentage = 52.6% (38 attempts)
Passing yards = 2887 yards (222.08 ypg)
Total yards = 4372 (336.3 ypg)
Passing TDs = 19
2008: (K. O'Keefe OC, first year SO QB)
3rd down percentage = 40.88%
Redzone TD percentage = 56.1% (57 attempts)
Passing yards = 2362 yards (181.69 ypg)
Total yards = 4815 (370.4 ypg)
Passing TDs = 16
Preliminary observations:
- Iowa's recent 3rd down percentage is low compared to historical trends. This suggests that we're likely to see this number trend upward. I'd estimate that we could see a number that ends up in the ball-park of 40%ish.
- My original expectation, before perusing the data, was that our TD percentage would be on the lower end in 2017. Somewhat surprisingly, our TD percentage actually was decent as measured relative to historical precedent. I suppose that is how we managed to win 8 games with a new OC and with a new QB.
- Passing yardage for experienced JR and SR QBs under O'Keefe's tutelage (in the data above) was always over 200 yards per game. Given that Stanley already was around 190 yards per game as a true SO ... odds are that this trend under O'Keefe will continue.
- Recent trends suggest that under O'Keefe's tutelage, QB TD numbers trend up too. Thus, odds are that Stanley ends up knocking down some season TD passing records at Iowa in 2018.
Uh, if you’re talking about nothing more than winning, than yes you would trade Urb for Saban.
In a nanosecond.
You can say what you want, but me personally, I would rather have Urban, because he lives 6 miles from me and he's been a pretty good neighbor!
I don't know why, but I have an odd feeling he becomes a Hawkeye. Not often I have this feeling but I was right the only other two times I had this feeling (well 1 and 1/2 times out of 2). I called it on Cook in basketball super early and that one running back from TX that we don't speak of I called early (this was my 1/2 bc I was right but apparently a few former coaches screwed the pooch on this one)
Id take Urban over Saban simply because Saban just seems like a scum bag. There are a handful of coaches that just annoy the heck of me. Saban, Calipari, Fleck, Harbaugh all seem like scumbag car salesmen who lie their asses off, I feel that I might not be too far off base with my assessment of these 4You can say what you want, but me personally, I would rather have Urban, because he lives 6 miles from me and he's been a pretty good neighbor!
I'm a Bengals fan too, so I do understand some of your frustrations( I know NFL vs College) but I guess Ohio State fans have what people may call first world problems, but that doesn't mean we don't get frustrated. The bottom line is if David Bell doesn't pick Ohio State...we will be fine and if he doesn't pick Iowa, you guys will be just fine too, because you guys always find a recruit that fits your system and Kirk will make it work somehow.
I grew up in the Quad Cities in Iowa, so I know a few Bengal fans who share your pain. A few holdovers from the Kenny Anderson days, when he played at Augustana college before leading the Bengals to the Super Bowl. We need the Bucks and frankly Michigan or PSU to be good, for the prestige of the BIG, (other then any Saturday when they play Iowa of course). Besides it certainly helps Iowa's perception nationally when we have a game like last years. Unfortunately we didn't follow up the next two weeks, but water under the bridge.
I'd like nothing more then another shot at Urban and the boys next December in Indy, so good luck to your Bucks.
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GhostofHomer777.....
Always enjoy your posts and logic. Appreciate the stats and effort you put into the discussion!
Always enjoy your posts and logic. Appreciate the stats and effort you put into the discussion!
Another "surprise" that the above data supplies is that we, as Iowa fans, have a tendency to assume that our best offenses necessarily correlate to our best OLs. As a case in point where that clearly was NOT the case ... the 2009 season. When Dace was healthy, he was playing like an All-Big 10 contributor. That OL also featured Bryan Bulaga at LT. We also had a young Riley Reiff cutting his teeth at OG (and at OT when Bulaga was out). That 2009 OL was both exceedingly experienced ... and it also haa ton of talent. I won't necessarily say that the '09 OL underperformed ... because there was also a lot of adversity it faced. Specifically, Calloway, Bulaga, and Vandervelde each had preseason injuries heading into the season .... thus, the group was a little nicked up before they even got out of the gates.
In addition, to having pretty impressive personnel on the OL ... we were seemingly pretty well stocked at WR too. We returned experienced guys in DJK, Stross, and Sandeman. Furthermore, McNutt was emerging and Keenan Davis was a promising FROSH (who was a bit of a prodigy out of CR Wash).
Stanzi showed moxy towards the end of the '08 season. Although he was a bit of a game-manager in '08 because of Shonn Greene's strong presence ... we wouldn't have defeated PSU that season without Stanzi's arm. He as poised to take positive steps in '09 ... but little did he anticipate that between Greene's early departure to the NFL and Hampton's blown ACL ... the Iowa O was about to be forced to flow almost entirely through Stanzi. Hence, the advent of the Rick six .... he knew he had to make plays ... it's just that they weren't always for Iowa.
Despite having a great OL (at least on paper) ... having such young and inexperienced RBs really undermined the offensive balance that Iowa prefers. Between the turnovers and the mediocre running game - that likely explains why the Iowa O had so few red-zone visits.
