True.....but I thought message boards like this one were kinda for this sort of thing. You know, expressing opinions and such?
Dayton's Obi Toppin named AP Player of the Year
- Thread starter Blair Sanderson
- Start date
Well there you have it. One game. A game which Garza played 25 minutes and was in foul trouble a majority of the contest. A game where Garza played with stitches in his lip from an injury less than 24 hours prior.
wow now that’s a killer schedule
Great job of cherry picking. So Garza plays 11 or 12 games against top 25 teams an averages 26 pts and 11 rebounds, and your guy plays ONE game.Here is stats we can compare
If I'm not mistaken Garza was in early foul trouble in that game though do continue your ridiculous narative.....
The outcome was not unexpected. Somehow, fairly or unfairly, an individual’s success is tied to his team’s success. Dayton was going to be a 1 seed, Iowa a 6. Yes, I know and understand the strength of completion argument. I would have cited for Luka because of that factor.
But, remember, sportswriters are lazy and stupid so they look at thing like the AP poll or tournament seed to make their decisions. How many do you think actually watched more than 1 or 2 Iowa or Dayton games?
But, remember, sportswriters are lazy and stupid so they look at thing like the AP poll or tournament seed to make their decisions. How many do you think actually watched more than 1 or 2 Iowa or Dayton games?
Perhaps but would the team win as many games. Youhave no basis for your opinion
How about scheduling us in a home and home over 2 years and we cn see who the better team is on the court. I do not know which is and neither do you.
How the hell is Dayton so highly ranked? Looking at the schedule, their highest quality win was probably against the Richmond Spiders. 29-2 sounds impressive, but there could be 20 other teams that could have done about as well against their powerful schedule. Luka got robbed.
If you had Garza & only won 29 games with that schedule, your coach would be on the hot seat.
Lol, your magical year is over bud... We have played twice in recent memory. No one cares.
Look, Dayton would have done very well in a better league this year. They had the very real possibility of make the Final 4 and beyond, all taken away. It sucks, it also sucks that the leading scorer in the Big10 over the last 30 years, posting stats against Daniel Oturu, Tillman, Lamar Stevens, Jalen Smith (All Pro level players), Matt Harms, Jon Teske, Jackson Davis, Reuvers… That's 8 pro level guys Garza played against multiple times each throughout the year.
Who did Obi play against?
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Obi may not have played against “anyone” but everyone in the A10 played against the AP Player of the year
Both guys had awesome seasons. Either guy would have been a great choice. Both Iowa, and Dayton are considered below the likes of basketball royalty Duke, Kansas, North Carolina. In this time of selfishness being shown by masses of people hoarding t.p etc.. I will hand out props, and praise to both programs.
Iowa, and Dayton both had great seasons. Both are great college towns. Have great fans, and both guys are class acts with great futures. Congrats Obi!!!
Iowa, and Dayton both had great seasons. Both are great college towns. Have great fans, and both guys are class acts with great futures. Congrats Obi!!!
I would love a home and home with Dayton. What do your incoming recruits look like and what's the outlook for the team next year with Toppin gone?
What is amazing is a group of journalists get to hide their vote. The very people who demand transparency get to be cowards.
Dayton is/was good, quite good. They were #4 in KenPom. Their schedule was terrible, but they generally thrashed those bad teams by big margins. KenPom adjusts numbers for schedule strength, so it is a way to help gauge how good teams are. Now, would Dayton live up to its high seed it would have gotten in the NCAA tournament? Maybe. We won't ever know. Reasonable people can think it's possible Dayton wouldn't play to its seed with consecutive games against good teams, rather than once a month.
I figured Toppin would win. He was very good, his team won a ton of games and his game is easily translatable to highlight packages. He dunks a lot, but he's also a good player aside from that. Personally, Garza did more given everything he was dealing with, but reasonable people can disagree.
The argument that Garza couldn't have been that good because Iowa lost 11 games. We will never know if Topin and Garza switched teams how that would go. It's interesting speculation. I am 100% certain that Iowa doesn't go 29-2 with Topin instead of Garza or that Iowa wins the Big 10 with Topin. The Iowa team wasn't all that good outside of Garza, it makes what he did all that more amazing.
I knew Luka was in trouble when he wasn't even a unanimous AP 1st Team All-American. Seriously, how do you not vote for him? Those that didn't should lose their right to vote.
Agree. The point I made was that maybe half of the B1G and another dozen teams would have also had a very impressive record against Dayton's pathetic schedule.
If you count this year, the Flyers would have made it to the NCAA tournament 5 of the last 7 years, with two years transitioning from Archie Miller to Anthony Grant. There are a lot of programs around the country who would take that type of success.
The Flyer program is on an upward trajectory, and next year we should be a very good team with one of the finest backcourts in the college game.
The last time the Flyers played Iowa, down in Orlando a few years back, I thought your fans were very respectful of the Dayton program. That year, Iowa was ranked number one for some time, but on that night, the Flyers were a little better.
I know some of you don’t want to be compared to Dayton in any way, but actually, both fan bases are very passionate and both programs do things the right way. Be happy. You have an excellent basketball program with an outstanding player. So do the Dayton Flyers.
Iowa will not play a Dayton in a home and home series. Not going to happen.
I think most of the time our fanbases would really get along, we both just so happen to have two of the (or the two) best players this year who we both want honored as much as possible.
UD has a lot of tradition in basketball and a very respected fanbase. I think anyone who is a fan of college basketball knows that. Like I said, a home and home with you guys would be really fun, and your arena is obviously renown as one of the best atmospheres.
I didn't see any of Dayton's games this year, but saw a lot of the Hawk games, so can't compare on personal observation. I have not seen a player that was harder to stop on offense all year than Garza. He combined more patience on post moves, with more tenacity on the boards to go with outstanding shooting be it from three or from mid-range. Sure it would have been nice to see him be able to put the ball on the floor when defenders came flying at him, but that just wasn't his game. Offensively he was outstanding. If there was a better offensive player this year, I didn't see them.
Defensively, he was not the liability he was in the past, but was at least solid. He cut down on the silly fouls that used to get him time on the bench, so was able to play significant minutes every night. Fran used the zone extensively which kept any potential defensive lateral movements to a minimum. He was aggressive on the boards and blocked shots without getting in constant foul trouble. It seemed Garza didn't take the first line of defense against opposing big much of the time as that fell to others on the team, but with Connor playing a lot of defensive 4, Garza still had lots of time against top opposing bigs and was not the easy player to pick on. I was impressed with his offensive growth, but maybe even more impressed by his ability to generally stay out of foul trouble and stay on the floor without just playing matador defense. The national debate always seems to mostly focus on the offensive stats.
Defensively, he was not the liability he was in the past, but was at least solid. He cut down on the silly fouls that used to get him time on the bench, so was able to play significant minutes every night. Fran used the zone extensively which kept any potential defensive lateral movements to a minimum. He was aggressive on the boards and blocked shots without getting in constant foul trouble. It seemed Garza didn't take the first line of defense against opposing big much of the time as that fell to others on the team, but with Connor playing a lot of defensive 4, Garza still had lots of time against top opposing bigs and was not the easy player to pick on. I was impressed with his offensive growth, but maybe even more impressed by his ability to generally stay out of foul trouble and stay on the floor without just playing matador defense. The national debate always seems to mostly focus on the offensive stats.
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Me neither but it is to the woke media. Pay attention. Everything is about race, class and being "woke".
Are you saying that Toppin doesn't deserve the award? I am a HUGE Iowa/Luka fan but they both had exceptional years. Luka will win it next year when he leads Iowa to an NCAA championship.
Saying Toppin didn't deserve it and was just voted in because of his race is racist.
Congratulations to Obi, even though I thought Luka deserved it more. Statistically it can’t even be argued especially considering the matchups and the level of competition each faced. Sad that a team record has that much influence on the vote, but so be it.
I would not be at all surprised if Luka wins this award next season. He’s gonna wreck a lot of team’s game plans.
I would not be at all surprised if Luka wins this award next season. He’s gonna wreck a lot of team’s game plans.
According to ESPN's BPI, Garza put up better numbers against the #5 SOS while Obi put up lesser numbers against the #102 SOS.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/view/overview/sort/sospastrank/page/3/dir/asc
No shot Obi is even in the conversation if they had to play the Marylands, Michigan States, Penn States, Illinois, and Michigans for almost half of their conference schedule.
Just think if Dayton had to play Ohio States, Purdues, Minnesotas, Indianas, Rutgers, & Wisconsins for their other half of their conference schedule.
Dayton would’ve been a bubble team playing that schedule.
What a joke.
But we are talking about members of the media voting... They do it badly, like everything else
But we are talking about members of the media voting... They do it badly, like everything else
All the same, I'd love to see your precious Flyers play a wood chipper of a 20 game big ten schedule. Michigan was #4, Penn State was #9 OSU was #2, MSU was #1, MD was #3 at one point. That's 8 games against teams that were top 10 at one point and Garza put up 20 in all 8 games.
But hey, obi scored 19 against Kansas. Garza put up 44 on the road at #4 Michigan. I think that was missing from your cheesy graphic earlier
Garza averaged more points and boards in the toughest conference in the nation. biggest crewjob since Andre Woolridge didn't get named big 10 POTY despite leading the conference in both points and assists per game.
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All the same, I'd love to see your precious Flyers play a wood chipper of a 20 game big ten schedule. Michigan was #4, Penn State was #9 OSU was #2, MSU was #1, MD was #3 at one point. That's 8 games against teams that were top 10 at one point and Garza put up 20 in all 8 games.
But hey, obi scored 19 against Kansas. Garza put up 44 on the road at #4 Michigan. I think that was missing from your cheesy graphic earlier
Haha...ROASTED!
We're not talking about Garza in the NBA. We're talking about the lame-ass mid major schedule Dayton plays. Keep ignoring it though.
Edit - apparently I can't quote the right person. That was meant for that roader tool.
Say what? He is definitely coming back based on what he and his father have said. Unfinished business.
All the same, I'd love to see your precious Flyers play a wood chipper of a 20 game big ten schedule. Michigan was #4, Penn State was #9 OSU was #2, MSU was #1, MD was #3 at one point. That's 8 games against teams that were top 10 at one point and Garza put up 20 in all 8 games.
But hey, obi scored 19 against Kansas. Garza put up 44 on the road at #4 Michigan. I think that was missing from your cheesy graphic earlier
Sucks to be Garza playing such a tough schedule and losing to a lowly school player like obi. I guess Garza will forever be known as the guy who lost to Obi
These 2 stats would be like me comparing my 9 hole score on a par 3 as compared to Tiger Woods 18 hole score with him playing Augusta.
I’d probably win (like Topin did) but everybody would know that I played a much easier course & half of the challenge than Tiger did.
