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Demand for electric pickup trucks . . .

Well I know you are never wrong...but I could show you odometers that belie your statement here. LOLOLOL. I have got one guy that drives 60+ miles ONE way just to get to the shop...not counting the miles he then drives in the day while at work. LOLOLOL. Not every day, but definitely common...we have 1-3 vehicles traveling AT LEAST 200+ miles in a day.

But please, do your thing and tell me how I am wrong and you are right.

I think that everyone would agree that it’s not for every application right now. However, it would work for a lot of applications. My cousin owns an auto parts store in Cedar Rapids. I’ll bet his delivery lady runs 50-75 miles in a day running parts, at least. Probably double that. This would be perfect For that. It has secured storage and can run all day. Plug it in for the night.
 
How much for a new battery(ies)? Tires...are these unlimited wear too? Brakes, suspension parts, etc? I get that an EV may be quite different than a CE in terms of maintenance and wear...but not for a minute do I believe that it is going to be no cost for an EV.
Brakes have a lot less wear on EV's because of regenerative braking. Almost twice the life.
 
They would get pushback from consumers, which is what the Ridgeline got with their more aerodynamic front end 5 years ago. But I’d be interested to see what they could do for range if they designed a truck that didn’t have that big flat front end that effectively makes it a brick on wheels in terms of aerodynamics. Since there is no big engine, could they make a more aerodynamic front that gives them 30-50 more miles of range?

As a society we need to start pushing the boundaries of what “looks cool” if we also want the functionality of higher range.
 
I was wanting to go this route but I went a different direction because of the availability. I want to wait 2-3 years and then buy the Silverado.

I have two coworkers that bought Tesla’s. They love the cars but hate the frustrations of charging them. They both live in high rise condos in Downtown Miami. Their condos only have 5 charging stations. They said it’s basically impossible to find an open charging station.
 
Most people don’t appreciate that Tesla and others could easily increase the range of their vehicles simply by making larger packs. Like Lucid for example, more range, largest packs. Tesla chooses not to because doing so would be an inefficient use of cells. Most human beings do not need to flipping drive 400+ miles without a bathroom or water/food break. It just isn’t needed in 95%+ of cases.

Battery technology is still improving. Tesla is innovating battery cell technology and is about to release the improved battery cells in their vehicles this year. One of the significant improvements will be increase battery cell design / electricity flow that improve charging time (lowers it.)

Then this happened, so there is hope that these concerns will be fully addressed as the technology improves. This one is for you @The Tradition


“Our Next Energy (ONE) successfully drove a Tesla Model S 752 miles (1,210km) on a single charge last month.

The Tesla Model S had one of the company’s retrofitted Gemini battery holding twice the energy of the standard battery, but fit within the same space.

Based in Michigan, ONE aims to make safer and more sustainable batteries. The test with the Tesla Model S was a proof of concept for the two-year-old company.

ONE intends to put the Gemini battery into production after 2023.”
 
Well I know you are never wrong...but I could show you odometers that belie your statement here. LOLOLOL. I have got one guy that drives 60+ miles ONE way just to get to the shop...not counting the miles he then drives in the day while at work. LOLOLOL. Not every day, but definitely common...we have 1-3 vehicles traveling AT LEAST 200+ miles in a day.

But please, do your thing and tell me how I am wrong and you are right.
Maybe electric is not for you at this time. That doesn’t stop it from being the sweet spot for plenty of other users. Maybe you take a good look at how you’re utilizing trucks. Any tweaking that would make monetary sense for part of the fleet?
We use multiple trucks, but they are not all the same.
We will be going with a Lightning for service work and waiting on electric for other uses.
Cheap as heck to run, easy on maintenance, what is not to like? The prices are already nearly equal once the current offerings hit the market in numbers.
 
GM talking about a 400 mile electric truck.

I would be all over that. I hope our main vehicle lasts another 18-24 months so we can get one.

Chrysler wants to be all electric by 2028.
 
Is so high, Ford has doubled production:

Ford Shares Hit Two-Decade High on Raised Plans for F-150 Electric Pickup​

Auto maker says it is doubling its production goal, now targeting 150,000 a year, amid high demand for the model​



im-461477

Ford has said the F-150 Lightning will have a starting price of $39,974 before potential tax credits.​

Matt Grossman Follow

Updated Jan. 4, 2022 4:24 pm ET



Ford Motor Co. F 0.99% doubled its goal for manufacturing the new electric version of the F-150 pickup truck, the auto maker said Tuesday, sending its stock price to levels not seen in more than two decades.

Ford said it now aims to produce 150,000 a year, citing high demand for the model. About 200,000 reservations have been placed for the opportunity to order one of the trucks, the company has said. The first group of reservation holders will be able to place orders for the electric F-150 beginning Thursday, Ford said.
Shares of Ford rose nearly 12% Tuesday to $24.31, its highest close since 2001. The stock, which has nearly tripled over the past 52 weeks, was the best performer in the S&P 500.
The company has said the F-150 Lightning will have a starting price of $39,974 before potential tax credits. Production of the electric pickup is expected to begin this spring.


The F-150 truck is Ford’s top-selling vehicle and one of its most profitable. Ford plans to report its 2021 sales results on Wednesday.
Other auto makers reported their sales figures Tuesday, and Toyota Motor Corp. overtook General Motors Co. as the U.S.’s top-selling car company by annual sales.
The electric F-150 is among several electric-pickup models expected to come out this year. The pickup-truck category looms as an important area of contention as auto makers race to develop electric vehicles, prodded by tightening environmental regulations and Tesla Inc.’s rapid rise.

Rivian Automotive Inc., a startup based in Irvine, Calif., that has seen its valuation soar since its IPO in November, until recently has had the market to itself with its fully electric pickup truck, the R1T, which went on sale in the fall. General Motors Co. last month began deliveries of its GMC Hummer pickup.
On Wednesday, GM is scheduled to reveal an electric version of its Chevrolet Silverado, its top-selling vehicle in North America, during a virtual keynote address by Chief Executive Mary Barra at CES, a big consumer-electronics convention.

The model is expected to compete with the F-150 Lightning when it goes on sale, scheduled for 2023.

I went on an stock-buying spree April-Oct 2020 and picked up some of this stuff. It's aging nicely.
 
Well I know you are never wrong...but I could show you odometers that belie your statement here. LOLOLOL. I have got one guy that drives 60+ miles ONE way just to get to the shop...not counting the miles he then drives in the day while at work. LOLOLOL. Not every day, but definitely common...we have 1-3 vehicles traveling AT LEAST 200+ miles in a day.

But please, do your thing and tell me how I am wrong and you are right.

Ooooh...you KNOW ONE GUY!!!

Fantastic. But the majority of those types of fleet vehicles don't put on many daily miles.
 
I think that everyone would agree that it’s not for every application right now. However, it would work for a lot of applications. My cousin owns an auto parts store in Cedar Rapids. I’ll bet his delivery lady runs 50-75 miles in a day running parts, at least. Probably double that. This would be perfect For that. It has secured storage and can run all day. Plug it in for the night.
I agree with this ^^. Watching the flotilla of Amazon vans trekking through town every day I could almost see them producing their own delivery vehicle that would be electric. They would seem like a perfect application.
 
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How much for a new battery(ies)? Tires...are these unlimited wear too?
Good Lord

You're buying tires regardless of what your vehicle's power source is.
And you're going to replace your lead-acid starter battery LONG before the Li-ion batteries for an electric vehicle.
 
Maybe electric is not for you at this time. That doesn’t stop it from being the sweet spot for plenty of other users. Maybe you take a good look at how you’re utilizing trucks. Any tweaking that would make monetary sense for part of the fleet?
We use multiple trucks, but they are not all the same.
We will be going with a Lightning for service work and waiting on electric for other uses.
Cheap as heck to run, easy on maintenance, what is not to like? The prices are already nearly equal once the current offerings hit the market in numbers.
Agree. ^^ Electric probably doesn't fit the needs of my business any time soon, but for some applications, you bet, I could definitely see it.

I still don't think anyone has answered the question how much a new battery(ies) would cost and when in the life of the vehicle that expense would likely manifest. If they are cheaper to operate day to day but then have a whopper of a cost to replace/repair the battery say every 100K miles, or whatever, I would sure like to have a sense of that and factor that into the cost of operating one.
 
Ooooh...you KNOW ONE GUY!!!

Fantastic. But the majority of those types of fleet vehicles don't put on many daily miles.
You freak...I gave you ONE example, without thinking more than 4 seconds about it. I know MANY scenarios where the EV technology would not seem feasible as it exists now. I also know MANY scenarios that it would likely be a real game changer.

Is this an act for you to continue to distort every post? Because if it isn't...seek help.
 
I know MANY scenarios where the EV technology would not seem feasible as it exists now.

I know a lot of scenarios like this, too.

But the example of a contractor with fleet vehicles is not typically one of them. It's what lots of those orders are going for, because the low maintenance costs and acceptable range performance is a HUGE win for many small business owners.
 
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Agree. ^^ Electric probably doesn't fit the needs of my business any time soon, but for some applications, you bet, I could definitely see it.

I still don't think anyone has answered the question how much a new battery(ies) would cost and when in the life of the vehicle that expense would likely manifest. If they are cheaper to operate day to day but then have a whopper of a cost to replace/repair the battery say every 100K miles, or whatever, I would sure like to have a sense of that and factor that into the cost of operating one.
I run a Honda Civic Hybrid on a daily commute round trip of 60 miles. No load like your work trucks, for sure. The big battery aged out last year after 210K miles. It cost me me just north of 2K to replace and the dealer allocated $900 to buy the used battery.
They couldn’t believe how many miles the battery lasted. The service writer told me that approx. 90K miles was the typical life span for the battery.
The Civic typically gets me 42-44 clean and quiet MPG and is designated as a PZEV.
 
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I know a lot of scenarios like this, too.

But the example of a contractor with fleet vehicles is not typically one of them. It's what lots of those orders are going for, because the low maintenance costs and acceptable range performance is a HUGE win for many small business owners.
Ford has stated that a big target is fleets like the power company, state and municipalities, etc… I would speculate that most meter reader type uses fit right in the Lightning’s wheel house.
The fact that the truck looks and is fitted out nearly identical to today’s gas powered F150 makes for an easy transition for current users.
 
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Ford has stated that a big target is fleets like the power company, state and municipalities, etc… I would speculate that most meter reader type uses fit right in the Lightning’s wheel house.
The fact that the truck looks and is fitted out nearly identical to today’s gas powered F150 makes for an easy transition for current users.

Yes....but Old_Wresting_Fart "Knows One Guy", so that means that Ford's entire marketing/sales team is WRONG!!!!
 
Ford claims that the F-150 Lightning will offer up to 300 miles of range with the Extended Range battery and 230 miles on the Standard Range pack. Additionally, a post on the F-150 Gen 14 forum found that a stakeholder's livestream allegedly stated that certain Platinum model trucks would offer 280 miles of range.


I'm super skeptical of the range on these new vehicles. I own a Tesla and let me tell you, Telsa is so far ahead of the curve. They've developed the driving software, super chargers, partnering with tire companies, etc. They have a ton more battery experience than most of these companies. The E-F150 is not aerodynamic at all. For example, my tesla doesn't include a spare tire to reduce weight and improve range. I suspect many of these will be over reaching promises.
 
Well I know you are never wrong...but I could show you odometers that belie your statement here. LOLOLOL. I have got one guy that drives 60+ miles ONE way just to get to the shop...not counting the miles he then drives in the day while at work. LOLOLOL. Not every day, but definitely common...we have 1-3 vehicles traveling AT LEAST 200+ miles in a day.

But please, do your thing and tell me how I am wrong and you are right.
Sounds like that one guy should find a place to live closer to work or even better find a job closer to home. What a waste of time and money.
 
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I run a Honda Civic Hybrid on a daily commute round trip of 60 miles. No load like your work trucks, for sure. The big battery aged out last year after 210K miles. It cost me me just north of 2K to replace and the dealer allocated $900 to buy the used battery.
They couldn’t believe how many miles the battery lasted. The service writer told me that approx. 90K miles was the typical life span for the battery.
The Civic typically gets me 42-44 clean and quiet MPG and is designated as a PZEV.
Hmmm...I did not know that. That is actually good news to my ears. Maybe I have a nervous twitch from replacing the batteries in so many tools over the years and the cost of those is almost like buying the tool all over again. Great utility and productivity to be sure over corded, but the ol' tool budget runs quite a bit higher these days too.

Depending on the amount of the battery replacement cost...if I had to change them out every 90K miles I would be changing them out a lot.
 
Sounds like that one guy should find a place to live closer to work or even better find a job closer to home. What a waste of time and money.
I'll be sure to share your thoughts with him...I am sure he will very intrigued by your thoughts. You appear not to be aware of this, but once a tradesman achieves the rank that he is driving a company paid for, and fueled, vehicle...they tend to move further away from the shop.

I know MANY contractors that have this exact same experience. If you are the contractor(me)...it is one of the things that you accept with the territory, as it is no simple matter to replace the skill, training and experience of a quality worker...and they know it too.

Take it FWIW, but over half of my staff that are driving work trucks/vans drive at least 30 miles'ish, one way, to the shop and/or job site every day. Again, that is very common in certain trades.
 
Yes....but Old_Wresting_Fart "Knows One Guy", so that means that Ford's entire marketing/sales team is WRONG!!!!
Joe's "whom cannot read" Place again takes a comment out of context and cannot let go of it. I know way more than one guy in this category...I just simply gave you ONE example and you then distorted it. You are pathetic.

I have in no way said that the whole Ford marketing program is flawed...only that EV's as described here in this thread will not be the answer to all scenarios.
 
Hmmm...I did not know that. That is actually good news to my ears. Maybe I have a nervous twitch from replacing the batteries in so many tools over the years and the cost of those is almost like buying the tool all over again. Great utility and productivity to be sure over corded, but the ol' tool budget runs quite a bit higher these days too.

Depending on the amount of the battery replacement cost...if I had to change them out every 90K miles I would be changing them out a lot.
This is not an EV battery I posted about. I have no clue about their lifespan or replacement cost.
 
This is not an EV battery I posted about. I have no clue about their lifespan or replacement cost.
OK, my bad. I thought the reference to the "Honda Civic Hybrid" was an EV, or at least one with a battery.

So...can anyone say what it might cost to replace batteries in a true EV?
 
They would get pushback from consumers, which is what the Ridgeline got with their more aerodynamic front end 5 years ago. But I’d be interested to see what they could do for range if they designed a truck that didn’t have that big flat front end that effectively makes it a brick on wheels in terms of aerodynamics. Since there is no big engine, could they make a more aerodynamic front that gives them 30-50 more miles of range?
Surely we have an aerodynamics expert who can set us straight, but in what I’ve read in racing the biggest issue is the maximum cross section and reducing base drag.

I think a pointier nose would help, but I wonder how it would compare to the trade offs.
e.g. Imagine a Dodge truck with an F-16 nose on it. Might be hard to put in the garage.
 

There are lots of great options that will be on the roads in the next few years. I have been putting off purchasing a vehicle the last few years as I have my eyes on a Rivian.
 
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Surely we have an aerodynamics expert who can set us straight, but in what I’ve read in racing the biggest issue is the maximum cross section and reducing base drag.

I think a pointier nose would help, but I wonder how it would compare to the trade offs.
e.g. Imagine a Dodge truck with an F-16 nose on it. Might be hard to put in the garage.
I’m not even talking about a super aerodynamic front end like a race car. Just maybe something that isn’t a 30” tall flat wall trying to blast through the wind. You could take some of the lower section and angle it up, which also gives you a better approach angle. Then take the top section and angle it down which gives you better visibility in front of the vehicle. Not manly looking, but it is little things like that that give you an extra 20 miles of range.

ford-f150-lightning-2022-studio-75.jpg

The Ridgeline I referenced moved away from the aerodynamic front end on their original 2nd Gen (on the right below) to a slightly beefier and less aerodynamic front end on the redesigned 2nd Gen (on the left below) a year ago because people said they weren’t buying it over the fact it looks like a Pilot from the front.
2021-honda-ridgeline-vs-2020-honda-ridgeline.jpg
 
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The other thing that I’ve been saying about electric vehicles for years is that the government and our society is going about it all wrong. We should try to get it so that every two car garage has at least one electric car in it. But not worry right now about getting every car switched over. You sell it that you have the ICE car for your long road trips and one spouse. You have the electric car for the other spouse to drive to work, get groceries, etc. Then you avoid having to put in these massive charging networks all over the place and keep the gas stations. Just fewer gas stations since there should be a 30% or more reduction of ICE cars.

A massive amount of the population of this country could get by with having a household where one vehicle is ICE and the other is electric with only a 100-200 mile range. Cars with that lower range need fewer cells, so we can make more of them without having to mine more of the nasty materials for the batteries, and they should be cheaper to purchase.
 
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I just simply gave you ONE example
Yes

That's what I said.

Only you USED that "one example" to claim my point was incorrect. Which is complete nonsense.

Ford TARGETED the types of users I've described to you, and demand was SO HIGH, they've literally DOUBLED production targets.

So, no, your "one guy" won't buy one. Tens of thousands of other small business guys will, which was my point here. If your point was NOT to discredit that, then why even bring up the "one guy" who won't buy one?

I'm not distorting anything here. I've called out your nonsensical argument.
 
The other thing that I’ve been saying about electric vehicles for years is that the government and our society is going about it all wrong. We should try to get it so that every two car garage has at least one electric car in it. But not worry right now about getting every car switched over. You sell it that you have the ICE car for your long road trips and one spouse. You have the electric car for the other spouse to drive to work, get groceries, etc. Then you avoid having to put in these massive charging networks all over the place and keep the gas stations. Just fewer gas stations since there should be a 30% or more reduction of ICE cars.

A massive amount of the population of this country could get by with having a household where one vehicle is ICE and the other is electric with only a 100-200 mile range. Cars with that lower range need fewer cells, so we can make more of them without having to mine more of the nasty materials for the batteries, and they should be cheaper to purchase.
This would work for me. My wife is work from home now. The longest trip I’ve made in my car in the last two years was driving to New Orleans, and I’ll do that again next month. Family is 150 miles away, so no worry with current tech.
One thing that sticks in my mind was going out after midnight when millions of people were evacuating north from the east and west coasts of Florida from hurricane Irma. The lines of cars getting gas off the interstate, and bleeding into town trying to find gas stations, were overwhelming.
I can’t envision outside of in-road induction charging how that scenario would have looked if most people had EVs with current charging times. I’m imagining 10s of thousands of dead cars stuck on the road.
One of the lab staff in Jax that had evacuated to Pensacola during the storm told us it took 13 hours to drive back to Jax down I-10 the traffic was so heavy. Normally that would be a five hour drive.
 
I’m not even talking about a super aerodynamic front end like a race car. Just maybe something that isn’t a 30” tall flat wall trying to blast through the wind. You could take some of the lower section and angle it up, which also gives you a better approach angle. Then take the top section and angle it down which gives you better visibility in front of the vehicle. Not manly looking, but it is little things like that that give you an extra 20 miles of range.

ford-f150-lightning-2022-studio-75.jpg

The Ridgeline I referenced moved away from the aerodynamic front end on their original 2nd Gen (on the right below) to a slightly beefier and less aerodynamic front end on the redesigned 2nd Gen (on the left below) a year ago because people said they weren’t buying it over the fact it looks like a Pilot from the front.
2021-honda-ridgeline-vs-2020-honda-ridgeline.jpg
The presentation that Chevy gave yesterday highlighted that their new truck body has aerodynamic properties that shed air more around the sides of the truck and less over the top. This means that the truck has less downforce occurring due to aerodynamics, which directly effects the rolling friction of the vehicle according to Ff=mu(Fn). In reality, the airflow and aerodynamics of a vehicle have very little effect until you're at high speeds, higher than most highway speeds, even. Granted, in this application, you're working hard to squeeze every ounce of force out of the system, but the force of rolling friction has a much greater impact than air/body friction. If they really wanted to improve mileage, they'd design the body to generate lift, effectively creating a wing shape, that reduces rolling friction, but then some idiot would crash doing 125 and sue the shit out of them.
 
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