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Derrick Willies is tearing it up at Texas juco

Why, why, why do people that don't want to read about it keep opening up AND POSTING in the threads they don't like? JFC let it go.

If you can't understand why people do this, then you will never understand the totality of the subject at all. THAT is why it's done.

It's 2015, maybe some posters should try to live in it a bit more. Willies putting up numbers at a TX touch football juco league has as much to do with the 2015 Hawks as the Pope's visit.

Everything we have heard about this year's team is that there seems to be an awful lot more of team unity across the board. They got each other's backs, everybody rowing in unison. Please explain why having a talented guy who quit on all the returning players advances this year's increased team unity - which appears to be a leading factor in Iowa playing as well by comparison over last year?

If I were a player on this team, would I want Willies on it after him leaving? Not in any fashion whatsoever. I couldn't trust him.
 
I don't know all the facts surrounding his departure and opportunity to return.

Even though it is speculation there appears to be some consensus, or at least a commonly offered reason, as to why he left, that is:

Willies left the team because of lack of playing time

For the sake of argument, let's stipulate that this was indeed the reason Derrick Willies departed, Now let's establish some facts:

1. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was a freshman.

2. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies had played in 5 of the 7 games in which he was eligible.

3. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was playing behind Kevonte Martin-Manley. At this time, KMM was a senior member of the team and one of the leading receivers in Iowa football history.

4. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was playing behind Tevuan Smith. At this time, TS was a junior member of the team with 10 starts and action in 29 games.

5. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was playing behind Demond Powell. At this time, DP was a senior member of the team with action in 20 games.

6. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was also playing behind Jacob Hillyey, a junior and Matt VandeBerg, a sophomore.

7. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was playing ahead of several other players on the team including, but not limited to, Riley McCarron, Derrick Mitchell, and Andre Harris.

If you agree with the above facts, I would argue that

a. The coaches were giving Derrick Willies playing opportunities by virtue of the fact that he had played in 5 of the first 7 games of his college career. Further, that an argument that Derrick Willies was not given playing time is misleading if not false.

b. Kevonte Martin-Manley had earned and deserved to play ahead of Derrick Willies.

c. Tevuan Smith had earned and deserved to play ahead of Derrick Willies.

d. Damond Powell had demonstrated sufficient ability, talent, and skills to earn playing time. Further, that Powell's additional game experience warranted playing time ahead of Derrick Willies,

At this point, an argument can be made I suppose that Derrick Willies deserved playing time ahead of Jacob Hillyer and Matt VandeBerg - even though both players had more game experience.

Assuming for the sake of argument that, based on a "talent" argument, Willies did deserve playing time ahead of Hillyer and VandeBerg, my question is this: why not continue to fight and earn it instead of quitting before the last 5 games have been played?

Why not?
Hundreds of talented college freshman players were in the exact same situation as Derrick Willes, some without the benefit of any playing time at all.

Freshman players do not have the right to demand playing time halfway through their first season, You earn it. If Willies shows up at Texas Tech with a "play-me-or-else" attitude, I would expect the same result.

Several of his classmates, including Derrick Mitchell -also a talented football player- had zero games played at the time Willies walked away. Mitchell didn't quit. You could name at least two dozen other players who believed they should play -but handn't -yet they did not quit. Let's call it what it is:

Derrick Willies is not a victim. He is a quitter.
 
I don't think you understand the difference between fact and opinion. And who are your sources saying he was a cancer on the team? That's news to me.
The players and coaches that I hung out with at Buffalo Wild Wings at several of the recruiting tailgaters......not to mention the fact he quit in the middle of the season......look I am a coach, I have to deal with these tough situations all the time. Coaches really really want talent, however; we need discipline, trust, and accountability. You must take care of the needs before you get to the wants.
 
I don't know all the facts surrounding his departure and opportunity to return.

Even though it is speculation there appears to be some consensus, or at least a commonly offered reason, as to why he left, that is:

Willies left the team because of lack of playing time

For the sake of argument, let's stipulate that this was indeed the reason Derrick Willies departed, Now let's establish some facts:

1. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was a freshman.

2. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies had played in 5 of the 7 games in which he was eligible.

3. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was playing behind Kevonte Martin-Manley. At this time, KMM was a senior member of the team and one of the leading receivers in Iowa football history.

4. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was playing behind Tevuan Smith. At this time, TS was a junior member of the team with 10 starts and action in 29 games.

5. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was playing behind Demond Powell. At this time, DP was a senior member of the team with action in 20 games.

6. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was also playing behind Jacob Hillyey, a junior and Matt VandeBerg, a sophomore.

7. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was playing ahead of several other players on the team including, but not limited to, Riley McCarron, Derrick Mitchell, and Andre Harris.

If you agree with the above facts, I would argue that

a. The coaches were giving Derrick Willies playing opportunities by virtue of the fact that he had played in 5 of the first 7 games of his college career. Further, that an argument that Derrick Willies was not given playing time is misleading if not false.

b. Kevonte Martin-Manley had earned and deserved to play ahead of Derrick Willies.

c. Tevuan Smith had earned and deserved to play ahead of Derrick Willies.

d. Damond Powell had demonstrated sufficient ability, talent, and skills to earn playing time. Further, that Powell's additional game experience warranted playing time ahead of Derrick Willies,

At this point, an argument can be made I suppose that Derrick Willies deserved playing time ahead of Jacob Hillyer and Matt VandeBerg - even though both players had more game experience.

Assuming for the sake of argument that, based on a "talent" argument, Willies did deserve playing time ahead of Hillyer and VandeBerg, my question is this: why not continue to fight and earn it instead of quitting before the last 5 games have been played?

Why not?
Hundreds of talented college freshman players were in the exact same situation as Derrick Willes, some without the benefit of any playing time at all.

Freshman players do not have the right to demand playing time halfway through their first season, You earn it. If Willies shows up at Texas Tech with a "play-me-or-else" attitude, I would expect the same result.

Several of his classmates, including Derrick Mitchell -also a talented football player- had zero games played at the time Willies walked away. Mitchell didn't quit. You could name at least two dozen other players who believed they should play -but handn't -yet they did not quit. Let's call it what it is:

Derrick Willies is not a victim. He is a quitter.
^^^^^This, is very well put
 
I don't see what t he obsession with him is. Get over it people. He is gone. If he ever amounts to anything more than an ok Division 1 receiver I will be shocked. Unless he has changed his attitude.
 
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Maybe this year is different and Kirk really has changed but there are so many examples during his tenure where he played one guy over what appeared to be a more talented player or at least that was the fans' perceptions. Willies absolutely lit up the defense in last year's Spring Game. I realize it was basically a scrimmage but he showed some serious potential. He makes a game winning touchdown catch against Ball State and then you never see the kid again and he quits on the team. We were pretty average last year so why was the kid not getting any playing time? They put LeShun Daniels in against UNI and he makes a great touchdown run that Weisman would have never made and then you never see the kid again and he gets hurt a few weeks later. Kirk should have played Willies early on last year and maybe we would have never gotten to the point where he walked away from the program. However, if you are outperforming guys in practice, which may have been the case, and you aren't getting any playing time then you might want to leave as well. It doesn't matter anymore but man it would have been nice to have Willies this year with Beathard.
 
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I assume that all of you guys that didn't want Willies back because he quit on his team have a big problem with Welsh being back on the team and starting at guard.
 
Maybe this year is different and Kirk really has changed but there are so many examples during his tenure where he played one guy over what appeared to be a more talented player or at least that was the fans' perceptions. Willies absolutely lit up the defense in last year's Spring Game. I realize it was basically a scrimmage but he showed some serious potential. He makes a game winning touchdown catch against Ball State and then you never see the kid again and he quits on the team. We were pretty average last year so why was the kid not getting any playing time? They put LeShun Daniels in against UNI and he makes a great touchdown run that Weisman would have never made and then you never see the kid again and he gets hurt a few weeks later. Kirk should have played Willies early on last year and maybe we would have never gotten to the point where he walked away from the program. However, if you are outperforming guys in practice, which may have been the case, and you aren't getting any playing time then you might want to leave as well. It doesn't matter anymore but man it would have been nice to have Willies this year with Beathard.

1. he lit it up against back ups.
2. Your post is wrong because he played after Ball State.
3. As for why he wasn't getting more playing time, there were probably good reasons.I saw him make mistakes in the games he was in so that could have been happening in practice as well. Also, was he blocking, was he consistent? There is more to being a receiver than just running fast.
4. You are assuming he was outperforming guys in practice. I think that is a bad assumption.
 
Maybe this year is different and Kirk really has changed but there are so many examples during his tenure where he played one guy over what appeared to be a more talented player or at least that was the fans' perceptions. Willies absolutely lit up the defense in last year's Spring Game. I realize it was basically a scrimmage but he showed some serious potential. He makes a game winning touchdown catch against Ball State and then you never see the kid again and he quits on the team. We were pretty average last year so why was the kid not getting any playing time? They put LeShun Daniels in against UNI and he makes a great touchdown run that Weisman would have never made and then you never see the kid again and he gets hurt a few weeks later. Kirk should have played Willies early on last year and maybe we would have never gotten to the point where he walked away from the program. However, if you are outperforming guys in practice, which may have been the case, and you aren't getting any playing time then you might want to leave as well. It doesn't matter anymore but man it would have been nice to have Willies this year with Beathard.

Take this argument and apply it to any other aspect of life.

At work. Joe is receiving more assignments and more responsibility than me. I'm new here but I believe I'm more talented and I've shown that I have great potential even though Joe has been here longer and Joe has more actual experience in the assignments he is getting.

At school
. My teacher has chosen 4 students ahead of me to represent our school in the debate tournament next week. The members of the team that he chose may be upper classmen and might have more tournament experience but I truly believe that I am a better debater and should have been chosen, During our mock debate last week, everyone on the team agreed that I made a great argument in support of the question.

The same situation can be easily applied to other areas of life. That is, a circumstance where a person of authority is making a decision which is adverse to your immediate desires and inconsistent with your short-term goals.

How does one react to these circumstances? The answer to that reveals character.
 
I assume that all of you guys that didn't want Willies back because he quit on his team have a big problem with Welsh being back on the team and starting at guard.

Please enlighten us all on all of the commonalities and differences between the two scenarios.
 
I assume that all of you guys that didn't want Willies back because he quit on his team have a big problem with Welsh being back on the team and starting at guard.

1. Sean Welsh didn't quit in the middle of the season
2. Sean Welsh did not actually quit, he took a leave.
3. We don't know why he left for certain but it was not over a lack of playing time
4. We do not know how or if the coaching staff were communicating with him while he was absent, if he was given permission to leave or step away for awhile, if there were any conditions to this or to his return.
5. When he rejoined the team he did not announce it on twitter prior to actually speaking with the coaches.

But other than this, their situations are exactly the same.
 
false equivalent.

The Welsh - Willies comparison by shoot_the_three is indeed a false comparison

Sean Welsh was granted an authorized leave of absence from team functions after the season concluded.

Derrick Willies voluntarily quit the team during the middle of the season.

Players on leave of absence do not surrender membership or privileges of the team but are merely excused from participating in team activities during the term of leave.

Players who voluntarily leave the team without permission (i.e. quit) forfeit all privileges of team membership at the time of departure and those benefits are not restored unless, and until, the team leader decides to do so.
 
1. Sean Welsh didn't quit in the middle of the season
2. Sean Welsh did not actually quit, he took a leave.
3. We don't know why he left for certain but it was not over a lack of playing time
4. We do not know how or if the coaching staff were communicating with him while he was absent, if he was given permission to leave or step away for awhile, if there were any conditions to this or to his return.
5. When he rejoined the team he did not announce it on twitter prior to actually speaking with the coaches.

But other than this, their situations are exactly the same.

Just so I can keep up with you hypocrites.
1. So its not that you quit but when you quit?
2. Taking a leave is WAY different than quitting.
3. You should have stopped with we don't know why he left (quit) the team.
4. At least you are admitting that we don't know anything.
5. Oh yes this should make a difference to an adult (KF).
 
I assume that all of you guys that didn't want Willies back because he quit on his team have a big problem with Welsh being back on the team and starting at guard.
There is a huge difference between the two situation. Welsh did not quit the team for one, secondly it was not in the middle of the season, it was off season, he had to leave to take care of a family situation. And more importantly he never made his announcement over social media or made a spectacle out of it and did EARN back his starting spot and obviously did what was asked of him to get back into good standing with the team. If you do not see the difference in this situation then you are nothing short of an idiot
 
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It seems to me that it comes down to this: Posters on here want something to complain about and have an agenda or "ferentz fatigue". Since they have nothing to complain about yet this year they will constantly bring rehash the Rudock debate and/or WIllies because they simply need something to complain about. Why not try and just enjoy the players we do have on this team, because this team has been pretty impressive thus far.
 
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Maybe this year is different and Kirk really has changed but there are so many examples during his tenure where he played one guy over what appeared to be a more talented player or at least that was the fans' perceptions. Willies absolutely lit up the defense in last year's Spring Game. I realize it was basically a scrimmage but he showed some serious potential. He makes a game winning touchdown catch against Ball State and then you never see the kid again and he quits on the team. We were pretty average last year so why was the kid not getting any playing time? They put LeShun Daniels in against UNI and he makes a great touchdown run that Weisman would have never made and then you never see the kid again and he gets hurt a few weeks later. Kirk should have played Willies early on last year and maybe we would have never gotten to the point where he walked away from the program. However, if you are outperforming guys in practice, which may have been the case, and you aren't getting any playing time then you might want to leave as well. It doesn't matter anymore but man it would have been nice to have Willies this year with Beathard.

Willies was hurt.
 
I assume that all of you guys that didn't want Willies back because he quit on his team have a big problem with Welsh being back on the team and starting at guard.

Can you point to the poster who said they didn't want Willies back? Ferentz said he was welcome to rejoin the team. I think all the fans wanted him back. The only difference is that Ferentz, and some fans, feel he shouldn't just pick up where he left off. Come back, show hard work and dedicate yourself to working back into the starting lineup and we're good. You don't leave the team mid-season, say you want to come back on twitter and then play in the next game. That's all we're saying. I don't recall seeing anyone who said they didn't want him back.
 
Just so I can keep up with you hypocrites.
1. So its not that you quit but when you quit?
2. Taking a leave is WAY different than quitting.
3. You should have stopped with we don't know why he left (quit) the team.
4. At least you are admitting that we don't know anything.
5. Oh yes this should make a difference to an adult (KF).
Can you point to the poster who said they didn't want Willies back? Ferentz said he was welcome to rejoin the team. I think all the fans wanted him back. The only difference is that Ferentz, and some fans, feel he shouldn't just pick up where he left off. Come back, show hard work and dedicate yourself to working back into the starting lineup and we're good. You don't leave the team mid-season, say you want to come back on twitter and then play in the next game. That's all we're saying. I don't recall seeing anyone who said they didn't want him back.
Oh by all means I wish Willies would have manned up and handled the situation better, great talent, that is undeniable. However, he did not so I do not blame KF for doing what he did. I have also moved on from this like IDK 12 months ago. It turns out there was a reason MV played ahead of him, turns out he is not too shabby of a receiver. No big deal, just leading the big ten in receptions....
 
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Just so I can keep up with you hypocrites.
1. So its not that you quit but when you quit?
2. Taking a leave is WAY different than quitting.
3. You should have stopped with we don't know why he left (quit) the team.
4. At least you are admitting that we don't know anything.
5. Oh yes this should make a difference to an adult (KF).

  1. Welsh didn't quit
  2. Yes, taking an authorized leave is WAY, WAY different...absolutely, unequivocally different.
  3. Why he left is irrelevant if he worked it out with the staff ahead of time.
  4. Obviously we know that the staff was OK with him handling the situation the way he did.
  5. Big difference between going to the coach in a private meeting and saying "Hey coach, I made a mistake leaving the team, what can I do to get back on?" vs a tweet announcing your rejoining the team without having discussed it with the coaches.
I don't say this often, but damn you are stupid.
 
If you are going to let a guy quit and then just let him back on the team without any consequences, where do you draw the line.

Of course conditions should be in place for him to be welcome back to the team.

As i recall, there were conditions put in place upon his return and he didn't want to go along with them if i remember correctly
 
However, didn't Willies say the reason he left the team was because his father was si
Of course conditions should be in place for him to be welcome back to the team.

As i recall, there were conditions put in place upon his return and he didn't want to go along with them if i remember correctly

Well that's kind of what I was saying. These guys are saying KF should have taken him back because he was so talented and as 1 poster said "I like winning" when he ridiculed me for wanting to do it the right way. I was just curious as to where the line would be for these guys who obviously missed their calling as coaches.

So far all I have gotten back is he should have been playing more in the first place. So they are dodging the question so they can make sure I get their overall theme which is KF sucks.
 
However, didn't Willies say the reason he left the team was because his father was si


Well that's kind of what I was saying. These guys are saying KF should have taken him back because he was so talented and as 1 poster said "I like winning" when he ridiculed me for wanting to do it the right way. I was just curious as to where the line would be for these guys who obviously missed their calling as coaches.

So far all I have gotten back is he should have been playing more in the first place. So they are dodging the question so they can make sure I get their overall theme which is KF sucks.

When I originally replied, I was thinking "nobody was saying he shouldn't have consequences to coming back"...then i remembered that he did have conditions that were placed on his return. As I continued reading the thread, i would like to also know what the line is that other people think is acceptable.

i don't think you just just wash your hands of someone if they come back to you, but announcing his return on social media without even discussing it with the coaches, and then not wanting to comply with the requirements the coaching staff set forth for your return to the team and the playing field is completely on him.
 
It seems to me that it comes down to this: Posters on here want something to complain about and have an agenda or "ferentz fatigue". Since they have nothing to complain about yet this year they will constantly bring rehash the Rudock debate and/or WIllies because they simply need something to complain about. Why not try and just enjoy the players we do have on this team, because this team has been pretty impressive thus far.

Spoken like a true prodigy.

It's 2015. I'm more concerned with who is here than who isn't.

I take great joy in knowing this year's success (which I fully understand can unravel...insert another Winston Wolf quote - it can still go downhill badly and fast) is pissing off a substantial portion of this board. The predictions of doom and gloom pre-season were astounding to me - and 3-0, and especially the fashion the 3-0 consists of...must be stupefying to them.

First loss...this board will see an eruption built up drum-skin tight with pressure just pining to be released. I'm talking Mount Vesuvius in nature. The FAA will re-route air traffic away from Iowa for fear of ash bringing down planes. The pyroclastic flow will run over other Rivals sites.
 
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Oh so now it was an authorized leave of absence, not how it was reported earlier. I have no problem with Welsh or how the situation was handled, in situations like this I tend to give an 18 year old kid the benefit of the doubt. Not sure why Willies isn't given the same benefit of the doubt. Maybe he and his father should have gone to the papers and threatened to transfer before he left the team, that seemed to work out pretty well for Beathard. And yes coaches treat players differently, ask Jimmy Johnson, so KF letting Willies rejoin the team wouldn't have caused problems amongst the team. You don't think the rest of the team saw how talented Willies is?
 
And bagdropper I couldn't be happier that Iowa is 3-0. It doesn't mean that I need to be a KF jock sniffer though.
 
Not sure why Willies isn't given the same benefit of the doubt.

He was. After quitting the team via twitter, Kirk mapped out a path to re-join the team. Willies didn't want to do that, and quit and went home, wherever that is this week.
 
People, did any of you look at the scores of the games? Who isn't doing well in those games? You don't even see scores like that in 8 man football or in Arena. Seriously! In three games there have been 479 points scored in total. Willies is one of a number of WR's from every single team apparently, that is doing well. His stats don't mean much since apparently every team sucks on defense.
 
People are exaggerating his talent. I would be surprised if he is anything more than an ok receiver at Tech.
 
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Oh so now it was an authorized leave of absence, not how it was reported earlier. I have no problem with Welsh or how the situation was handled, in situations like this I tend to give an 18 year old kid the benefit of the doubt. Not sure why Willies isn't given the same benefit of the doubt. Maybe he and his father should have gone to the papers and threatened to transfer before he left the team, that seemed to work out pretty well for Beathard. And yes coaches treat players differently, ask Jimmy Johnson, so KF letting Willies rejoin the team wouldn't have caused problems amongst the team. You don't think the rest of the team saw how talented Willies is?

Willies was allowed to rejoin the team...KF said so in a press conference. Willies just wasn't willing to do what was required of him to do so. This isn't rocket science. At this point your posts are so stupid and you are so blatantly ignoring the facts that I have to conclude you're just trolling. I wonder if people would pull this stupid act to keep a thread going if they were posting under their real name....
 
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2. Taking a leave is WAY different than quitting.

YES, most certainly IT IS.

Oh so now it was an authorized leave of absence, not how it was reported earlier. I have no problem with Welsh or how the situation was handled, in situations like this I tend to give an 18 year old kid the benefit of the doubt. Not sure why Willies isn't given the same benefit of the doubt. Maybe he and his father should have gone to the papers and threatened to transfer before ........ blah blah blah

Your responses have followed a negative progression from confused to naively mistaken to willfully ignorant.

The next step is complete idiot. I have no doubt you will take it.
 
It also doesn't mean you can be a pessimistic prick either, move on bro

Nice milehighhawkeye24, didn't realize you were so thin skinned. So Beathard and his family handled it better by going to the press? Willies said that he was open to a return but the feeling wasn't mutual. Automatically we side with KF on this? I understand that KF needs to have rules and that he can't let players walk over him.
 
However, didn't Willies say the reason he left the team was because his father was si


Well that's kind of what I was saying. These guys are saying KF should have taken him back because he was so talented and as 1 poster said "I like winning" when he ridiculed me for wanting to do it the right way. I was just curious as to where the line would be for these guys who obviously missed their calling as coaches.

So far all I have gotten back is he should have been playing more in the first place. So they are dodging the question so they can make sure I get their overall theme which is KF sucks.

You need to quit trying to make your point by saying "they missed their calling as coaches." You've used it multiple times and it's lame. People will have opinions that are different than yours, argue without saying crap like that.
 
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Nice milehighhawkeye24, didn't realize you were so thin skinned. So Beathard and his family handled it better by going to the press? Willies said that he was open to a return but the feeling wasn't mutual. Automatically we side with KF on this? I understand that KF needs to have rules and that he can't let players walk over him.
Not thick skinned, just call it like I see it......you do not like KF, we all get it. But because some of feel that KF should not be at fault for having expectations and accountability with his student-athletes does not make us "KF jock sniffers" Am I a KF supporter, you are damn right I am. I like the fact that he runs a clean by the book program, sticks with his beliefs, and is far more successful than any KF haters make him out to be. Being in the coaching profession I probably have a different vantage point on this topic and we may not agree on this topic. However, if you are going to act like a prick on here do not be surprised if somebody calls you out on it. When he decides to step down (sometime after the 2020 season) he will go down as the most successful or at least #2 passing legendary Hayden Fry and that is a fact
 
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