Derrick Willies is tearing it up at Texas juco

[J_Heater]

You need to quit trying to make your point by saying "they missed their calling as coaches." You've used it multiple times and it's lame. People will have opinions that are different than yours, argue without saying crap like that.

I was trying to make my point by asking them questions and they dodged the question over and over. They just keep reverting back to Willies should have been playing more but that really don't answer the question how they would have handled it and where they draw the line. Every opinion they have is centered around one thing. Kirk Ferentz is wrong.

But thanks for telling me whats lame. I feel like such a square.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I was trying to make my point by asking them questions and they dodged the question over and over. They just keep reverting back to Willies should have been playing more but that really don't answer the question how they would have handled it and where they draw the line. Every opinion they have is centered around one thing. Kirk Ferentz is wrong.

But thanks for telling me whats lame. I feel like such a square.

They start with that assumption, then go looking for ways to justify it. The depths to which they'll dig are astounding. nu2u pretty much nailed it above.

 

[shoot_the_three]

milehigh you aren't the only one on the board that has coached. if you are going to be thin skinned, don't be surprised if i call you on it. most coaches that i know aren't so thin skinned. and i guess we have a different opinion on what being a prick is. that we don't both think KF is the right guy for the iowa job shouldn't result in name calling.

 

[shoot_the_three]

and on that note i am done with this thread, you're welcome. one day i hope to be as enlightened as some of you.

 

[OmahaHawkFan]

Quitting is quitting is it not?

Didn't he have family issues? There is a difference between quitting on the team because your a whiny kid who isn't getting the ball enough and leaving the team for personal reasons.

 

[OmahaHawkFan]

and on that note i am done with this thread, you're welcome. one day i hope to be as enlightened as some of you.

I love when people get their comments shot down then take their ball and go home.

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

and on that note i am done with this thread, you're welcome. one day i hope to be as enlightened as some of you.

Bye Felicia

 

[bagdropper]

Thin skin...that's funny. Your skin's so thin you'd tan on a flight to the North Pole in winter.

 

[nu2u]

and on that note i am done with this thread, you're welcome. one day i hope to be as enlightened as some of you.

To those who questioned your claims, you labeled "hypocrites".

If you decide to make that charge, the least you can do is stand up and defend your position. That fact that you haven't (and can't) explains your reason for leaving. No need to act like some kind of victim.

 

[pocha444444]

I was trying to make my point by asking them questions and they dodged the question over and over. They just keep reverting back to Willies should have been playing more but that really don't answer the question how they would have handled it and where they draw the line. Every opinion they have is centered around one thing. Kirk Ferentz is wrong.

But thanks for telling me whats lame. I feel like such a square.

Well I answered your question about how to address the team. I received no response on that one of course even though you claimed I hadn't answered that question as well. I don't have all day to be playing hypotheticals with you and answering various questions. You always try and make the argument about something else instead of the topic at hand. Then your post usually involves something about the other people thinking they're coaches and that everyone that disagrees with you thinks "Ferentz sucks". You need to stop arguing like a child and you will get better responses.

The whole argument was, should he be brought back after quitting the team or should he not. I say he should have, you obviously think he shouldn't have. Nobody knows the terms set out by Ferentz for him to come back. I think he should have done whatever he could to get him back barring any unreasonable demands from Willies or other issues that we don't know about. It comes down to me valuing having good players and winning more than "doing it the right way" and you have the opposite outlook. It's a difference in opinion, deal with it.

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

Well I answered your question about how to address the team. I received no response on that one of course even though you claimed I hadn't answered that question as well. I don't have all day to be playing hypotheticals with you and answering various questions. You always try and make the argument about something else instead of the topic at hand. Then your post usually involves something about the other people thinking they're coaches and that everyone that disagrees with you thinks "Ferentz sucks". You need to stop arguing like a child and you will get better responses.

The whole argument was, should he be brought back after quitting the team or should he not. I say he should have, you obviously think he shouldn't have. Nobody knows the terms set out by Ferentz for him to come back. I think he should have done whatever he could to get him back barring any unreasonable demands from Willies or other issues that we don't know about. It comes down to me valuing having good players and winning more than "doing it the right way" and you have the opposite outlook. It's a difference in opinion, deal with it.

So you think that treating players differently based on their talent level will lead to more wins? I think the poster (not trying to speak for them) was stating that it is probably a good thing that you are not a coach, because it is obvious you would not be a very good one. In fact, all of the "good" coaching I have had the pleasure in talking to actually handle thing completely opposite of the way you would handle this situation. Most successful coaches will have higher expectations for their most talented players as opposed to lowering the expectations

 

[pocha444444]

If you can't understand why people do this, then you will never understand the totality of the subject at all. THAT is why it's done.

It's 2015, maybe some posters should try to live in it a bit more. Willies putting up numbers at a TX touch football juco league has as much to do with the 2015 Hawks as the Pope's visit.

Everything we have heard about this year's team is that there seems to be an awful lot more of team unity across the board. They got each other's backs, everybody rowing in unison. Please explain why having a talented guy who quit on all the returning players advances this year's increased team unity - which appears to be a leading factor in Iowa playing as well by comparison over last year?

If I were a player on this team, would I want Willies on it after him leaving? Not in any fashion whatsoever. I couldn't trust him.

I'm loving this season so far and was going crazy after the last game. Does that mean I can't talk about Iowa players from the past on an Iowa message board? People that get upset over threads like this make no sense. If you don't like it, don't get involved. Simple

Also, sports writers love people like yourself. Always searching for some intangible reason for the success of a certain team. Winning comes down to players, coaches, and their schemes. I think it's great that the team seems closer this year, but the first three wins had very little to do with team unity and a lot to do with CJ Beathard being the quarterback.

 

[theIowaHawk]

KF played the less talented guy at qB and Beathard was going to transfer if he didn't get named the starting job.

You realize you are calling multiple people liars with this right? Including CJ's dad.

 

[David1979]

Well I answered your question about how to address the team. I received no response on that one of course even though you claimed I hadn't answered that question as well. I don't have all day to be playing hypotheticals with you and answering various questions. You always try and make the argument about something else instead of the topic at hand. Then your post usually involves something about the other people thinking they're coaches and that everyone that disagrees with you thinks "Ferentz sucks". You need to stop arguing like a child and you will get better responses.

The whole argument was, should he be brought back after quitting the team or should he not. I say he should have, you obviously think he shouldn't have. Nobody knows the terms set out by Ferentz for him to come back. I think he should have done whatever he could to get him back barring any unreasonable demands from Willies or other issues that we don't know about. It comes down to me valuing having good players and winning more than "doing it the right way" and you have the opposite outlook. It's a difference in opinion, deal with it.

So if Ferentz made reasonable demands for him to be back and he didn't accept it then you agree with him?

 

[pocha444444]

So if Ferentz made reasonable demands for him to be back and he didn't accept it then you agree with him?

It's hard to say without knowing the full story, but I would do almost anything in my power to make sure he came back without sending a bad message to the team.

 

[mvhomerj]

Just getting this back to the top, gonna beat any Rudock thread!

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

It's hard to say without knowing the full story, but I would do almost anything in my power to make sure he came back without sending a bad message to the team.

So what you're saying is that virtually anything other than the most trivial demand is unreasonable?

So, for example, what if he said that Willies needed to sit out the first few games back to get back into shape and have a reasonable amount of practice to get back in sync, apologize to the rest of the team for bailing on them and that he'd then be back into consideration for playing time based on performance and effort in practice, but no guarantees?

I ask because I think this is probably the absolute bare minimum I'd consider as a coach under the circumstances for these reasons:
1) He'd be rusty and, perhaps, out of shape
2) The team really deserves an apology...he walked out on them during the heat of battle.
3) Playing time is based on performance and effort anyway.
4) Nobody is guaranteed playing time.

Under the circumstances, the only thing close to punishment there is the apology. Pretty forgiving terms easily satisfied. Would that be reasonable?

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

It's hard to say without knowing the full story, but I would do almost anything in my power to make sure he came back without sending a bad message to the team.

So without knowing the full story, how can you assume that KF did not do everything in his power without sending a bad message to the team? You do not know that, which is why this topic is completely garbage.....furthermore, if you want to talk about former players there are hundreds you could talk about who did not bail on their team in the middle of the season. The truth of the matter is those who are talking about these things are just pissed b/c they were hoping this years team would suck so they could come on here and say "I told you so", but that is not the case so you will bring up things such as WIllies transfer and all we are saying is that there are 85+ players on this team, this year busting their butts to make this a successful season and very enjoyable at that thus far.....

 

[MTHawkeyes43]

I am not one to look back or hold grudges against players that leave. These young men get 4 years to prove themselves on the field. If they are not good enough or not given a chance, for whatever reason, and feel that they must move on then more power to them. The Iowa offense would certainly be more dynamic with the physical talents that Willies has. I can imagine the frustration of watching Jake start and play over a better CJB and the fact that he was not getting the reps he felt he deserved, so Mr. Willies decided it was best for him to move to another program to further his development. I wish him the best and think what could have been.

 

[snotknockerhawk]

It's hard to say without knowing the full story, but I would do almost anything in my power to make sure he came back without sending a bad message to the team.

This one is simple. If you watched Derek play at all he was a good play maker but he couldn't block well yet. A lot of kids these days get impatient and don't want to pay their dues. Next man in!

 

[pocha444444]

So without knowing the full story, how can you assume that KF did not do everything in his power without sending a bad message to the team? You do not know that, which is why this topic is completely garbage.....furthermore, if you want to talk about former players there are hundreds you could talk about who did not bail on their team in the middle of the season. The truth of the matter is those who are talking about these things are just pissed b/c they were hoping this years team would suck so they could come on here and say "I told you so", but that is not the case so you will bring up things such as WIllies transfer and all we are saying is that there are 85+ players on this team, this year busting their butts to make this a successful season and very enjoyable at that thus far.....

I feel like I need to start every post by listing my hawkeye fan credentials for fear of being labeled a "Ferentz hater" or "someone who hoped this years team would suck." You are right that I don't know for sure, maybe Willies was being crazy, but Kirk likely didn't do everything he could have to get him back if he isn't back. The players would never have to know the terms of Willies coming back, as I said in a previous post, but just know that Kirk was handling it. Situations like this don't happen very often, giving Willies a 2nd chance would not have hurt Ferentz's reputation.

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

I am not one to look back or hold grudges against players that leave. These young men get 4 years to prove themselves on the field. If they are not good enough or not given a chance, for whatever reason, and feel that they must move on then more power to them. The Iowa offense would certainly be more dynamic with the physical talents that Willies has. I can imagine the frustration of watching Jake start and play over a better CJB and the fact that he was not getting the reps he felt he deserved, so Mr. Willies decided it was best for him to move to another program to further his development. I wish him the best and think what could have been.

Yet here you are looking back. I am not saying I blame him, hold grudges, or even do not want him succeed. What I am saying is he made a poor decision, bailed on his team and for that had consequences for his actions.......the problem with this entire situation is the way he handled things. First off, unless he was being physically or emotionally harmed there is no reason what so ever to quit the team midseason (speaks volumes of his true character at the time), second of all-when you tweet something before even talking to the coaches there is a disconnect there. I made a million mistakes when I was younger, however, many of those mistakes came with consequences and i grew from them. My hopes is that he does the same, because even the biggest KF haters cannot sit here and say that Willies did not make a mistake in this situation. Furthermore, it was very public that KF did give him an opportunity to get back into good standing with the team, Willies decided to move on......I think it is time for the rest of us to do the same

 

[pocha444444]

So what you're saying is that virtually anything other than the most trivial demand is unreasonable?

So, for example, what if he said that Willies needed to sit out the first few games back to get back into shape and have a reasonable amount of practice to get back in sync, apologize to the rest of the team for bailing on them and that he'd then be back into consideration for playing time based on performance and effort in practice, but no guarantees?

I ask because I think this is probably the absolute bare minimum I'd consider as a coach under the circumstances for these reasons:
1) He'd be rusty and, perhaps, out of shape
2) The team really deserves an apology...he walked out on them during the heat of battle.
3) Playing time is based on performance and effort anyway.
4) Nobody is guaranteed playing time.

Under the circumstances, the only thing close to punishment there is the apology. Pretty forgiving terms easily satisfied. Would that be reasonable?

I don't understand how you came to your conclusion in your first sentence. That sounds reasonble. I would of probably explained to him that he let his team down and ask him how he though he should make that up to them. Get his opinion so that you can be on the same page and get him to do one extra thing so that he understand I still hold authority. I'd be more lax on player discipline than Mark Dantonio though so I'm guessing I don't see eye to eye with very many on this board. I'm a fan and want to see the best players on the field.

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

I feel like I need to start every post by listing my hawkeye fan credentials for fear of being labeled a "Ferentz hater" or "someone who hoped this years team would suck." You are right that I don't know for sure, maybe Willies was being crazy, but Kirk likely didn't do everything he could have to get him back if he isn't back. The players would never have to know the terms of Willies coming back, as I said in a previous post, but just know that Kirk was handling it. Situations like this don't happen very often, giving Willies a 2nd chance would not have hurt Ferentz's reputation.

Here is the problem with every one of your post...you constantly assume...you claim we do not know what happened, but then you also claim that "kirk likely didn't do everything he could have to get him back" how do you know that. You cannot frame something just to fit your narative......I do not know the full story, you do not know the full story....the only thing we do know is that a talented WR decided to quit midseason, was given an opportunity to come back, decided not to, and here we are sitting at 3-0 and you all want to talk about a player with less than 10 career receptions at the D1 level who had a very difficult time blocking downfield....all because of he had a good day at a spring practice.....it just baffles me

 

[Madman_1]

Oh so now it was an authorized leave of absence, not how it was reported earlier. I have no problem with Welsh or how the situation was handled, in situations like this I tend to give an 18 year old kid the benefit of the doubt. Not sure why Willies isn't given the same benefit of the doubt. Maybe he and his father should have gone to the papers and threatened to transfer before he left the team, that seemed to work out pretty well for Beathard. And yes coaches treat players differently, ask Jimmy Johnson, so KF letting Willies rejoin the team wouldn't have caused problems amongst the team. You don't think the rest of the team saw how talented Willies is?

I'm with ya, Shoot...

This is obviously Ferentz giving the fans a big F.U. He knows this is a good way to piss the fans off: unfairly forcing the best player we had off the team.

Man, Ferentz just can't let it go...

 

[pocha444444]

Here is the problem with every one of your post...you constantly assume...you claim we do not know what happened, but then you also claim that "kirk likely didn't do everything he could have to get him back" how do you know that. You cannot frame something just to fit your narative......I do not know the full story, you do not know the full story....the only thing we do know is that a talented WR decided to quit midseason, was given an opportunity to come back, decided not to, and here we are sitting at 3-0 and you all want to talk about a player with less than 10 career receptions at the D1 level who had a very difficult time blocking downfield....all because of he had a good day at a spring practice.....it just baffles me

What a dumb post. Of course none of us know the full story so obviously all we can do is assume. You assume people that don't agree with you also hate Ferentz. If we are to believe that Willies really wanted to come back (like he said he did), then how else would he not have come back if Kirk did everything he could? Yes, It's an assumption that Kirk didn't do everything he could, but it's a very strong one. Agree with it or not, Kirk could have lessened the requirements he initially set forth if he really wanted him back. I think what Willies did was wrong, but I also would have made sure he made it back. Although I also would have been playing him over Hillyer so this situation likely would have never occurred.

 

[RocknRollface]

well then you don't paty attention to other teams.

I'm not sure you understood the type of problems I was alluding to.

Most teams don't seem to have problems identifying their most talented players and getting them playing time.

Especially when they are struggling to win against bad teams.

Rudock over Beathard is an obvious example.

I'm not killing KF on this since it seems he is taking a better approach now, just saying it's a shame they couldn't have figured this out before it got to that point.

 

[RocknRollface]

To date, according to at least one independent source, Iowa's schedule is better than 75% of the teams from the Power 5 conferences.

Where it ranks isn't the point.

 

[nu2u]

I'm with ya, Shoot...

This is obviously Ferentz giving the fans a big F.U. He knows this is a good way to piss the fans off: unfairly forcing the best player we had off the team.

Man, Ferentz just can't let it go...

LOL - how can you possibly engage in a conversation with someone like this who has the opinion that a freshman with something like 7 catches was the best player on the team ....... supposedly even better than a player on that team that caught more passes than any receiver in Iowa history.

It gets better. According to madman, Ferentz forced Willies off the team. Willies did not qquit, he was forced off by Ferentz. Are some people this divorced from reality?

I apologize if this was a sarcastic post. sometimes they are hard to catch.

 

[Madman_1]

LOL - how can you possibly engage in a conversation with someone like this who has the opinion that a freshman with something like 7 catches was the best player on the team ....... supposedly even better than a player on that team that caught more passes than any receiver in Iowa history.

I apologize if this was a sarcastic post. sometimes they are hard to catch.

Apology accepted.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

What a dumb post. Of course none of us know the full story so obviously all we can do is assume. You assume people that don't agree with you also hate Ferentz. If we are to believe that Willies really wanted to come back (like he said he did), then how else would he not have come back if Kirk did everything he could? Yes, It's an assumption that Kirk didn't do everything he could, but it's a very strong one. Agree with it or not, Kirk could have lessened the requirements he initially set forth if he really wanted him back. I think what Willies did was wrong, but I also would have made sure he made it back. Although I also would have been playing him over Hillyer so this situation likely would have never occurred.

So what if the requirements were exactly as you and I laid out and willies refused. Did Kirk do everything he could or should he have backed down?

 

[RocknRollface]

I don't know all the facts surrounding his departure and opportunity to return.

Even though it is speculation there appears to be some consensus, or at least a commonly offered reason, as to why he left, that is:

Willies left the team because of lack of playing time

For the sake of argument, let's stipulate that this was indeed the reason Derrick Willies departed, Now let's establish some facts:

1. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was a freshman.

2. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies had played in 5 of the 7 games in which he was eligible.

3. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was playing behind Kevonte Martin-Manley. At this time, KMM was a senior member of the team and one of the leading receivers in Iowa football history.

4. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was playing behind Tevuan Smith. At this time, TS was a junior member of the team with 10 starts and action in 29 games.

5. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was playing behind Demond Powell. At this time, DP was a senior member of the team with action in 20 games.

6. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was also playing behind Jacob Hillyey, a junior and Matt VandeBerg, a sophomore.

7. At the time of his departure, Derrick Willies was playing ahead of several other players on the team including, but not limited to, Riley McCarron, Derrick Mitchell, and Andre Harris.

If you agree with the above facts, I would argue that

a. The coaches were giving Derrick Willies playing opportunities by virtue of the fact that he had played in 5 of the first 7 games of his college career. Further, that an argument that Derrick Willies was not given playing time is misleading if not false.

b. Kevonte Martin-Manley had earned and deserved to play ahead of Derrick Willies.

c. Tevuan Smith had earned and deserved to play ahead of Derrick Willies.

d. Damond Powell had demonstrated sufficient ability, talent, and skills to earn playing time. Further, that Powell's additional game experience warranted playing time ahead of Derrick Willies,

At this point, an argument can be made I suppose that Derrick Willies deserved playing time ahead of Jacob Hillyer and Matt VandeBerg - even though both players had more game experience.

Assuming for the sake of argument that, based on a "talent" argument, Willies did deserve playing time ahead of Hillyer and VandeBerg, my question is this: why not continue to fight and earn it instead of quitting before the last 5 games have been played?

Why not? Hundreds of talented college freshman players were in the exact same situation as Derrick Willes, some without the benefit of any playing time at all.

Freshman players do not have the right to demand playing time halfway through their first season, You earn it. If Willies shows up at Texas Tech with a "play-me-or-else" attitude, I would expect the same result.

Several of his classmates, including Derrick Mitchell -also a talented football player- had zero games played at the time Willies walked away. Mitchell didn't quit. You could name at least two dozen other players who believed they should play -but handn't -yet they did not quit. Let's call it what it is:

Derrick Willies is not a victim. He is a quitter.

Honestly , I believe the QB situation has ALLOT to do with it as well.

DW and CJ were tight.

It's hard to tell someone to compete for PT when the most important position on the team was not being given to the best player.

 

[pocha444444]

So what if the requirements were exactly as you and I laid out and willies refused. Did Kirk do everything he could or should he have backed down?

I believe I already answered that in the post you quoted

 

[J_Heater]

I believe I already answered that in the post you quoted

You have answered a lot of hypothetical questions in this thread for a guy that don't have time to hash out hypotheticals. Maybe it was just mine. Now I feel bad.

Go Hawks.

 

[nu2u]

Honestly , I believe the QB situation has ALLOT to do with it as well.

DW and CJ were tight.

It's hard to tell someone to compete for PT when the most important position on the team was not being given to the best player.

Those are judgment calls made by the HC. Even if you (as a player) disagree with the depth chart, you continue to practice, improve, and get ready for your opportunity.

That's exactly what CJ Beathard did; his opportunity arrived.

Its not what Derrick Willies did - he chose to forego his opportunities and walk away from his commitment. He forfeited his opportunity. If a player is not motivated to compete for playing time that is his personal problem.

I don't know why some want to continue to portray Willies as a victim.

 

[QChawks]

I apologize for starting this thread about a former hawk succeeding.

My bad.

 

[RocknRollface]

People are exaggerating his talent. I would be surprised if he is anything more than an ok receiver at Tech.

Id be surprised if you are right.

 

[cw_hawk]

Some people are going to see what they want to see no matter what.

I wonder if Derrick Willies position coach had any input with respect to Willies return? Maybe a conversation such as this:

KF: Bobby, Derrick Willies wants to come back to the team. What are your thoughts?
BK: Coach, as you know, Derrick has great physical ability and has room for growth. I say, we welcome him back with a clean slate - meaning he starts from scratch.

Both KF & GD buy off on this.

 

[RocknRollface]

Those are judgment calls made by the HC. Even if you (as a player) disagree with the depth chart, you continue to practice, improve, and get ready for your opportunity.

That's exactly what CJ Beathard did; his opportunity arrived.

Its not what Derrick Willies did - he chose to forego his opportunities and walk away from his commitment. He forfeited his opportunity. If a player is not motivated to compete for playing time that is his personal problem.

I don't know why some want to continue to portray Willies as a victim.

KF knew Beathard wasn't sticking around to sit behind Rudock for another year though.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I believe I already answered that in the post you quoted

Not directly but I see what you're saying. We disagree on this then. I would not make exceptions for any player. It creates dissention in the ranks. That's management 101 and as a coach you're a manager.