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DOS resignation...

Aardvark86

HR Heisman
Jan 23, 2018
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So I see some 38 year old state department chick made a big public to-do about her resignation from DOS over Gaza policy.

Upon further review...
1. It is generally very bad form for a DOS person to do this, as most DOS people actually understand that their job is to implement the policy of the president. There are plenty of internal nonpublic channels by which they may register dissent, but once the policy is set, you implement it or you go away. But you don't throw a pity party.
2. In case you were wondering our "DOS Official" is a one-year foreign service officer in the "Office of Near Eastern Affairs in the Department of State’s Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor". In other words, waaaaaaayyyy down the food chain. Dr. Google suggests that prior to that, our newly-minted PhD seems to have spent her life in quasi academia, analyzing (apparently not very well) the implications of combating violent extremism and encouraging religious tolerance with a whole four (!) years living in the middle east.
3. This is what happens when the rubber of academic peace studies graduates meet the road of the middle east. In short, bald tires.
4. I cannot help but be reminded of a very good law school friend who spent his first year after law school working for the (Bill) Clinton campaign. He really and truly thought and expected that he'd get a major policy appointment - probably requiring Senate confirmation - out of his gig, and was genuinely disappointed to become assistant deputy undersecretary for briefcase carrying to the deputy administrator.
 
Good way to weed out the Hamas supporters.
so my buddy just started at usaid in a senior economic role for ukraine reconstruction, as a sort of retirement gig for himself, having done this for the better part of 30 years under government contracts (including running kosovo recon). the first hilarious thing is that they actually gave him an office, which no one else has, not out of prestige, and not even to prevent him from talking to people (which there would be good reason for), but so that all of the completely inexperienced people aren't constantly bothering him when it comes time for him to make ginormous contract award recommendations. so when he got on board he put a few internal posts out to the group, to the effect that economics in redevelopment work just like economics in other matters - water doesn't run uphill, special bells and whistles do have costs, lesbian economics are just like cis economics, incentives do predict behavior, etc. A few people immediately jumped all over these 'newbie' posts poo-poohing them, given their year of experience after getting their international relations degree. Then they looked up his career. And now his office is keeping them away.
 
A long time ago I was in FL politics and had an interest in moving to DC. I’m so glad I didn’t. The people there seem so hung up on titles, roles and are generally gossipy and self-important. It’s like one big circle jerk.
 
Does thinking that these guys are garbage and are making new terrorists make me a Hamas supporter?


Did you notice the kid was wearing a Pro-Hamas shirt? It’s wartime, wearing paraphernalia of the other side is likely to get you shot. The kid is older than some of the suicide bombers. Hamas makes heavy use of suicide bombers that are 14 and 15 and they tried to use two girls aged 11 and 12 who had ieds but were unable to trigger it.
 
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Did you notice the kid was wearing a Pro-Hamas shirt? It’s wartime, wearing paraphernalia of the other side is likely to get you shot. The kid is older than some of the suicide bombers. Hamas makes heavy use of suicide bombers that are 14 and 15 and they tried to use two girls aged 11 and 12 who had ieds but were unable to trigger it.
I am aware that he was wearing a shirt with a gun on it and that israeli media claims that means that he supports hamas.
The kid was not carrying a weapon or a bomb.
Nothing you said defends their actions any more than claiming that hama members took refuge in mosques defends blowing them up afterwards.
 
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I am aware that he was wearing a shirt with a gun on it and that israeli media claims that means that he supports hamas.
The kid was not carrying a weapon or a bomb.
Nothing you said defends their actions any more than claiming that hama members took refuge in mosques defends blowing them up afterwards.

Sure it does. The kid is of bomb threat age and wearing a shirt that’s essentially a big Eff You to the other side. He didn’t get shot. He didn’t get decapitated like Hamas did to several Jewish babies. He was ordered to show he didn’t have a bomb and then the offending shirt was confiscated and destroyed. In a war zone.

I‘m pretty far from being a Magat and I don’t claim to have any combat or warzone experience myself, but if THAT is a terrible example of the “oppressors” color me underwhelmed.
 
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Sure it does. The kid is of bomb threat age and wearing a shirt that’s essentially a big Eff You to the other side. He didn’t get shot. He didn’t get decapitated like Hamas did to several Jewish babies. He was ordered to show he didn’t have a bomb and then the offending shirt was confiscated and destroyed. In a war zone.

I‘m pretty far from being a Magat and I don’t claim to have any combat or warzone experience myself, but if THAT is a terrible example of the “oppressors” color me underwhelmed.
A child was struck in the head and his clothes torn because the soldiers with the guns didn't like his shirt.
That's what you're defending. Just to be clear.
 
And btw I am aware that Hamas claims the decapitated babies is a false flag, but I trust this guy’s word over the terrorists.


Kfar Aza, Israel:
A senior Israeli army officer said Friday that he had found the body of a decapitated baby in one of the kibbutz communities attacked by Hamas on October 7.

Colonel Golan Vach, head of the military search and rescue service, told AFP he saw the body of a mother protecting a baby while searching debris at the Beeri kibbutz three days after the attacks.

"When I pulled it over I saw a decapitated baby. I took it up with my hands and I carried it, and I put it in the body bag. I personally did it," he said while on a media tour of another kibbutz organised by the military.

Isreal has said 1,400 people were killed and at least 229 taken hostage when Hamas militants attacked kibbutz commmunities, towns and military bases in southern Israel.

It has said many of the dead were women and children, killed in shocking ways, but it has given no figures.

Hamas has denied that its fighters killed infants during the cross-border raids.

The Hamas health ministry said Friday that 3,038 children were among 7,326 people killed in Israeli air raids on Gaza since October 7, in the buildup to a widely expected ground invasion. Israel and the United States have said they doubt the Hamas tolls.

Allegations that children were beheaded first emerged in Israeli media reports and were at first supported by Israeli officials, though spokesmen later said it could not be confirmed.

US President Joe Biden also mentioned the beheading of babies but his office later clarified that he had not seen any images.

No verified photographs or video footage of beheaded babies have emerged since the attacks.

Speaking on a tour of the Kfar Aza kibbutz, a community of 700 devastated in the attacks, the Israeli colonel told reporters he had been asked since making his gruesome discovery why there were no images.

"People ask me how come you did not take a picture. I said: 'I'm sorry, I have children. I have limitations. I have limits. I do not take a picture of a decapitated baby," Vach said.
 
A child was struck in the head and his clothes torn because the soldiers with the guns didn't like his shirt.
That's what you're defending. Just to be clear.

Yep. In war. A potential combatant wearing (because Hamas has used over 2,000 children under the age of 16) terrorist supporting clothing got a lighter slap than any American mom doled out in the 50s when he was noncompliant with the order to show he had no weapon. Just to be clear.

You don’t want children to be treated as potential soldiers? Ask Hamas to stop using child-soldiers and children as suicide weapons.

8fc3eebb840eec8e70950fba50984f99.jpeg


00ec23792e909e55ff981f9697651c3f.jpeg


8521f5a9ddbf8642f2dac9647be64c0f.jpeg
 
Yep. In war. A potential combatant wearing (because Hamas has used over 2,000 children under the age of 16) terrorist supporting clothing got a lighter slap than any American mom doled out in the 50s when he was noncompliant with the order to show he had no weapon. Just to be clear.

You don’t want children to be treated as potential soldiers? Ask Hamas to stop using child-soldiers and children as suicide weapons.

8fc3eebb840eec8e70950fba50984f99.jpeg


00ec23792e909e55ff981f9697651c3f.jpeg


8521f5a9ddbf8642f2dac9647be64c0f.jpeg
Oh, ask Hamas to stop using people.
The old, the other side is bad so we have to allow our soldiers to be garbage excuse.
 
And btw I am aware that Hamas claims the decapitated babies is a false flag, but I trust this guy’s word over the terrorists.


Kfar Aza, Israel:
A senior Israeli army officer said Friday that he had found the body of a decapitated baby in one of the kibbutz communities attacked by Hamas on October 7.

Colonel Golan Vach, head of the military search and rescue service, told AFP he saw the body of a mother protecting a baby while searching debris at the Beeri kibbutz three days after the attacks.

"When I pulled it over I saw a decapitated baby. I took it up with my hands and I carried it, and I put it in the body bag. I personally did it," he said while on a media tour of another kibbutz organised by the military.

Isreal has said 1,400 people were killed and at least 229 taken hostage when Hamas militants attacked kibbutz commmunities, towns and military bases in southern Israel.

It has said many of the dead were women and children, killed in shocking ways, but it has given no figures.

Hamas has denied that its fighters killed infants during the cross-border raids.

The Hamas health ministry said Friday that 3,038 children were among 7,326 people killed in Israeli air raids on Gaza since October 7, in the buildup to a widely expected ground invasion. Israel and the United States have said they doubt the Hamas tolls.

Allegations that children were beheaded first emerged in Israeli media reports and were at first supported by Israeli officials, though spokesmen later said it could not be confirmed.

US President Joe Biden also mentioned the beheading of babies but his office later clarified that he had not seen any images.

No verified photographs or video footage of beheaded babies have emerged since the attacks.

Speaking on a tour of the Kfar Aza kibbutz, a community of 700 devastated in the attacks, the Israeli colonel told reporters he had been asked since making his gruesome discovery why there were no images.

"People ask me how come you did not take a picture. I said: 'I'm sorry, I have children. I have limitations. I have limits. I do not take a picture of a decapitated baby," Vach said.
Ok?
So Hamas being garbage means you can abuse kids.
Well done counselor.
 
A child was struck in the head and his clothes torn because the soldiers with the guns didn't like his shirt.
That's what you're defending. Just to be clear.

So you’re going to risk your life and your buddy’s life just because you dont want to get cross with children?

As I said, Hamas literally recruits and trains kids his age. Watch this video and be horrified.

 
So you’re going to risk your life and your buddy’s life just because you dont want to get cross with children?

As I said, Hamas literally recruits and trains kids his age. Watch this video and be horrified.

1. Those kids are much older
2. Your view is deranged. People like you always ask why there are terrorists and then defend the shit that makes more terrorists.
 
Ok?
So Hamas being garbage means you can abuse kids.
Well done counselor.

Notice anything similar between the kid in question and the kids in the video?

Oh that’s right, both are wearing pro Hamas shirts.

Considering he wasn’t shot on sight in a warzone for that shows pretty amazing levels of courage and human decency on the part of the Isreali soldiers.

I just said I have no warzone experience but I’m fairly certain if I was in warzone where childsoldiers and child suicide bombers were a common occurrence that I would have a REALLY itchy trigger finger and zero patience for anything other than immediate compliance when it came to my safety and the safety of my friends. I’m amazed the Isreali soldiers were as calm and professional as they were.
 
1. Those kids are much older
2. Your view is deranged. People like you always ask why there are terrorists and then defend the shit that makes more terrorists.
its wierd to me because i thought pretty much everyone was on board with the thought that what the us did in iraq post 9/11 was bad and actually made the situation way worse

those same people don't seem to apply any of those lessons to this situation

i guess it's just different enough that "kill everyone and destroy cities until you defeat the insurgency" sounds good this time
 
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Notice anything similar between the kid in question and the kids in the video?

Oh that’s right, both are wearing pro Hamas shirts.

Considering he wasn’t shot on sight in a warzone for that shows pretty amazing levels of courage and human decency on the part of the Isreali soldiers.

I just said I have no warzone experience but I’m fairly certain if I was in warzone where childsoldiers and child suicide bombers were a common occurrence that I would have a REALLY itchy trigger finger and zero patience for anything other than immediate compliance when it came to my safety and the safety of my friends. I’m amazed the Isreali soldiers were as calm and professional as they were.

JFC, the kid is like 8 and the first thing he did (due to conditioning) is lift his shirt to show he had nothing on him. Soldiers still proceeded to hit and humiliate him.

US soldiers got in trouble for humiliating ADULT COMBATANTS in Abu Ghraib but apparently you'd have been ok if they did it to kids on the street - because you never know.
 
1. Those kids are much older
2. Your view is deranged. People like you always ask why there are terrorists and then defend the shit that makes more terrorists.

SOME of those kids were much older. I already said they make the most frequent use of 14-16 yos because they’re smart enough to handle weapons reliably. But there’s a bunch of tweens and younger in the video that’s how I know you didn’t actually watch it.
 
JFC, the kid is like 8 and the first thing he did (due to conditioning) is lift his shirt to show he had nothing on him. Soldiers still proceeded to hit and humiliate him.

US soldiers got in trouble for humiliating ADULT COMBATANTS in Abu Ghraib but apparently you'd have been ok if they did it to kids on the street - because you never know.
that 10 year old kid should really think more about the political implications of the graphic on his left sleeve
 
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JFC, the kid is like 8 and the first thing he did (due to conditioning) is lift his shirt to show he had nothing on him. Soldiers still proceeded to hit and humiliate him.

US soldiers got in trouble for humiliating ADULT COMBATANTS in Abu Ghraib but apparently you'd have been ok if they did it to kids on the street - because you never know.

Yes because this isn’t ordinary times, it is active warfare at the moment. Time and place my man.
 
SOME of those kids were much older. I already said they make the most frequent use of 14-16 yos because they’re smart enough to handle weapons reliably. But there’s a bunch of tweens and younger in the video that’s how I know you didn’t actually watch it.
defend what you want but there are no 8 year olds in that video. And the kid in the store wasn't holding a weapon or wearing a hamas headband.
Your defense is disappointing.
 
JFC, the kid is like 8 and the first thing he did (due to conditioning) is lift his shirt to show he had nothing on him.
‘due to conditioning’?
This answer seems incomplete.
Why is he conditioned to raise his shirt?
Oh, that’s right, Hamas turns kids into bombs.

We should have a ceasefire and leave Hamas in power then, amirite?
 
its wierd to me because i thought pretty much everyone was on board with the thought that what the us did in iraq post 9/11 was bad and actually made the situation way worse

those same people don't seem to apply any of those lessons to this situation

i guess it's just different enough that "kill everyone and destroy cities until you defeat the insurgency" sounds good this time
What the US did to Iraq after 9/11 was bad because IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. Nor did it pose any real threat to us.

Bush/Cheney should be in prison - not for what happened to the Iraqis, but for how they maimed and destroyed 10s of thousands of Americans sent there and wasted trillions of dollars
 
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What the US did to Iraq after 9/11 was bad because IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. Nor did it pose any real threat to us.

Bush/Cheney should be in prison - not for what happened to the Iraqis, but for how they maimed and destroyed 10s of thousands of Americans sent there and wasted trillions of dollars
sure...not disagreeing at all

but in addition to all that...a traditional miltary occupation proved to be completely ineffective in dealing with an embedded terrorist/insurgency problem.

regardless of how justified the response/occupation is...it's just not an effective long-term solution to the problem
 
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‘due to conditioning’?
This answer seems incomplete.
Why is he conditioned to raise his shirt?
Oh, that’s right, Hamas turns kids into bombs.

We should have a ceasefire and leave Hamas in power then, amirite?
Ah, the board 'dove' is back defending the IDF.
 
And btw I am aware that Hamas claims the decapitated babies is a false flag, but I trust this guy’s word over the terrorists.


Kfar Aza, Israel:
A senior Israeli army officer said Friday that he had found the body of a decapitated baby in one of the kibbutz communities attacked by Hamas on October 7.

Colonel Golan Vach, head of the military search and rescue service, told AFP he saw the body of a mother protecting a baby while searching debris at the Beeri kibbutz three days after the attacks.

"When I pulled it over I saw a decapitated baby. I took it up with my hands and I carried it, and I put it in the body bag. I personally did it," he said while on a media tour of another kibbutz organised by the military.

Isreal has said 1,400 people were killed and at least 229 taken hostage when Hamas militants attacked kibbutz commmunities, towns and military bases in southern Israel.

It has said many of the dead were women and children, killed in shocking ways, but it has given no figures.

Hamas has denied that its fighters killed infants during the cross-border raids.

The Hamas health ministry said Friday that 3,038 children were among 7,326 people killed in Israeli air raids on Gaza since October 7, in the buildup to a widely expected ground invasion. Israel and the United States have said they doubt the Hamas tolls.

Allegations that children were beheaded first emerged in Israeli media reports and were at first supported by Israeli officials, though spokesmen later said it could not be confirmed.

US President Joe Biden also mentioned the beheading of babies but his office later clarified that he had not seen any images.

No verified photographs or video footage of beheaded babies have emerged since the attacks.

Speaking on a tour of the Kfar Aza kibbutz, a community of 700 devastated in the attacks, the Israeli colonel told reporters he had been asked since making his gruesome discovery why there were no images.

"People ask me how come you did not take a picture. I said: 'I'm sorry, I have children. I have limitations. I have limits. I do not take a picture of a decapitated baby," Vach said.
It is absolutely shocking to me that Israel, of all countries, with its institutional and engrained knowledge and experience with Holocaust denial and the value of the surviving documentation and films and photographs ordered by Eisenhower, made absolutely no attempt to record and document these thousands of killings and brutal tortures and mutilations uncovered by thousands of troops across dozens of sites.

What is up with that?
 
It is absolutely shocking to me that Israel, of all countries, with its institutional and engrained knowledge and experience with Holocaust denial and the value of the surviving documentation and films and photographs ordered by Eisenhower, made absolutely no attempt to record and document these thousands of killings and brutal tortures and mutilations uncovered by thousands of troops across dozens of sites.

What is up with that?
Their soldiers are documenting what they're doing in Gaza though. Apparently it's funny.

 
Ah, the board 'dove' is back defending the IDF.
I don't support the neocons dragging America into fruitless wars like you, that is correct.

Your explanation of why the child raised his shirt was incomplete.
Dare I say, misleading?

IDF is conditioned to ask kids to raise their shirts, but that isn't how you put it.
Let's us avoid that messy 'why', doesn't it?
 
A long time ago I was in FL politics and had an interest in moving to DC. I’m so glad I didn’t. The people there seem so hung up on titles, roles and are generally gossipy and self-important. It’s like one big circle jerk.
Why they sound sorta I don’t know…what’s that word..,
Elitist?
 
sure...not disagreeing at all

but in addition to all that...a traditional miltary occupation proved to be completely ineffective in dealing with an embedded terrorist/insurgency problem.

regardless of how justified the response/occupation is...it's just not an effective long-term solution to the problem
Iraq is 40m people spread over 170k square miles

Gaza is 2m in 140 Square miles.

Israel could have divided it up, filtered civilians from one section to another, then searched and removed hamas and be done with it months ago.

But Netanyahu has criminal fraud and bribery trials waiting at the end of the war, along with an election he is guaranteed to lose. So he's going to drag this out as long as possible.

Iraq was a failure of US policy - 1. Invading for nothing 2. Firing and dismissing entire police/military/governing party members

Gaza is by design. Netanyahu/conservatives WANT Gazan kids to become terrorists, they WANT permanent state of war. War/fear of Palestinians and terrorism is Netanyahu/ Israeli conservatives entire voter base.
 
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It is absolutely shocking to me that Israel, of all countries, with its institutional and engrained knowledge and experience with Holocaust denial and the value of the surviving documentation and films and photographs ordered by Eisenhower, made absolutely no attempt to record and document these thousands of killings and brutal tortures and mutilations uncovered by thousands of troops across dozens of sites.

What is up with that?
You missed the news:

October 17, 2023
TEL AVIV, Israel (AP) — A grisly montage of video and photographs of Hamas’s massacre of hundreds of civilians across southern Israel last week highlights the savagery of the attack and the ease with which the militant group appeared to operate inside Israel.
The footage that the Israeli military showed foreign correspondents Monday included a photo of a burnt baby. It showed gunmen shooting the dead bodies of civilians in cars, militants in the process of beheading a body with a hoe, burnt corpses thrown in a dumpster.
 
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