Fans are partly to blame...

[Bulldogs1974]

And they won't acknowledge it. Fans take zero accountability.

I'm really starting to think that this board is bad for Iowa sports. I hear stuff in public almost verbatim from this board all the time.

And it's not like people are going out of their way to come on here and praise and promote these Hawkeyes and their coaches. But rest assured the board catches all of the venters and complainers

there's stupid and then there's this.
Fans taking accountability??? WTF they didn't riot and tear down carver.
You obviously are a social misfit that can't comprehend what a fan message board is for and about. Get over it.
If any player comes here to stroke their ego, f them. They are making more money than virtually everyone on the is board. For you to constantly whine about how they are spoken about is childish. GROW UP.

 

[bobchawk]

How is that an uncomfortable truth? The team wasn't fun to watch, so people didn't. An uncomfortable truth would be selling out for a sub par performance game in and game out and expecting anything to change.

agree here--case in point--the year both the men and women played in Des MOines, the men,s game was decent but was just a ho hum win against a team they should beat--
The women,s in contrast you could sense the excitement everytime the Iowa women had the ball, the anticipation noise level would go up and there was a noticeable difference in the crowd between the 2 games--
The men,s game had like 2 wow moments but the women,s was virtually every other time down the court--and not just when CC had the ball,
Fran had a noticeable disconnect with the student body--the women sell out but not because like 4,000 students show up--they reserve some 4,000 tix for students for men,s games and like 200 would show up. Tells me something is off there.
Alford gave us the blueprint in how to remedy this--BM will remedy this--
Too bad Dix and Sandfort did not want to be part of the answer, but instead chose to run away because they could--2 sides to every coin right?

 

[amahawk]

Interesting quote

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Fan fatigue with the program was real. It was time for a change.

 

[jdv77]

Something can be both necessary and problematic at the same time. It was probably necessary for fans to react as they did in order to bring a change in the head coach. The lack of fan support was a factor in showing that the status quo was not OK. But the lack of fan support was also problematic when trying to keep the players that McCollum wanted to retain.

I think that McCollum's point is just an acknowledgement of reality, and a subtle encouragement to Hawkeye fans that things need to change with respect to the fan support of the program going forward.

 

[BrunoMars420]

there's stupid and then there's this.
Fans taking accountability??? WTF they didn't riot and tear down carver.
You obviously are a social misfit that can't comprehend what a fan message board is for and about. Get over it.
If any player comes here to stroke their ego, f them. They are making more money than virtually everyone on the is board. For you to constantly whine about how they are spoken about is childish. GROW UP.

Eyesofhawk are what give us Iowa fans a bad name!

 

[bobchawk]

The fanbase absolutely quit on the team, except for taking the time to bitch about them.

again you do not know who these people are that are behind these monikers--so saying all of them are fans, but your point stands, that when you have a beer and talk Iowa bball there is a lot of bitching--
Like 2 of my biggest are how can we be in year 15-16 of the same staff and still not know how to defend a pick and roll at the 3 point line?
fundamental bball defense play and it was never addressed in 15 years.
When was the last time you saw an Iowa player take a charge--thye let teams get to the rim way more than any team should even in practice--
but to be honest even those 2 bitch points do not keep me from going to the games hence I agree with the not showing point--

 

[BrotherHawkeye]

I 110% agree with everything you said, but the starting out on a bad foot part. I don't think he blamed "us" as much as pointed out that it can't be fun to play in front of a bunch of chairs. No, that's not on us and is a bit of a "chicken and the egg", but as someone said; win or at least be entertaining, and there will be more people.

Interesting. I interpreted his comment that Ben was starting out on a bad foot as not that the fans were bad, but as pointing out the lack of fan support that has been building starts him out behind, and that there is work to do to bring them back. But I can see what you're saying. I don't think McCollum is capping on the fans, but it's true. Fans weren't coming, and it wasn't getting better. It's just another task on his plate that he needs to address.

 

[bojihawk44]

Good for the fans, that's how it should work. Thankfully we have an AD that wasn't blind to it.

As for the players who left, that's totally their right. I wish them well, but won't be rooting for them.

 

[jberesford]

Lol. Ya it's the fans fault this team lost almost all of its road games and got absolutely murdered in most of them.

Attendance at home is due to a not very good team playing mostly 300+ level teams. And as someone above me said I don't McCollum was blaming the fans at all. I read it as him pointing out an element that needs to improve and doing so is part of HIS job.

 

[jasonrann]

Yep 15 years of the same story doesn’t warrant a 16th.

This.

I'm tired of hearing the fans quit on the team. I absolutely love basketball and love the Hawks and I quit watching this season, started to slip last season. Watching the same issues year after year just became ridiculous for me. Substandard guards, no defense, lack of effort/hustle/rebounding year after year after year. All the fans, hope and encouragement in the world was not going to move the dial. Everyone but Koch left the team. It's pretty clear who the quitters are.

 

[HawkLogic]

This board is gross but it’s nothing compared to actual social media. Message boards are not a thing for the younger generation by and large. Other than Reddit.

And Hawkeye fans can be bad but they’re nothing compared to some fan bases.

Fans quit on the team because sports is an entertainment product and the show wasn’t entertaining anymore.

The only ones blaming the posters on this board for driving off Hawkeye players are some of the same guys on this board that tho Fran was a Big10 coach of the year material for 0.500 ball.

I would also say there are also economic principles involved for poor attendance.. When no one wants the product, you have to lower prices. The AD bears part of the blame. Certainly Fran wasn't charismatic and wasn't good at marketing the program and the program was stale.

The fact that many of the Hawks were soft/head cases and not competitive this year didn't help. Women's basketball and wrestling are also quite competitive for eyeball time.

Iowa fans should be jealous of the crowds that Nebraska and Creighton are able to put in the seats.

That BTT game versus Illini was emblematic of Fran ball--men vs boys and Illini weren't even that good.

 

[Cardsnhawks]

The only ones blaming the posters on this board for driving off Hawkeye players are some of the same guys on this board that tho Fran was a Big10 coach of the year material for 0.500 ball.

I would also say there are also economic principles involved for poor attendance.. When no one wants the product, you have to lower prices. The AD bears part of the blame. Certainly Fran wasn't charismatic and wasn't good at marketing the program and the program was stale.

The fact that many of the Hawks were soft/head cases and not competitive this year didn't help. Women's basketball and wrestling are also quite competitive for eyeball time.

Iowa fans should be jealous of the crowds that Nebraska and Creighton are able to put in the seats.

That BTT game versus Illini was emblematic of Fran ball--men vs boys and Illini weren't even that good.

Agreed. Universities, coaches, and athletes: listen carefully to me. You wanted the smoke of being professional sports, now you need to act like them. Acting like them does not include begging your fans on the street corners for their change to pay the players millions of dollars or blaming them for not finding value in your product. It means successfully running your business so you can pay them your dang selves. GTFOH with these stupid collectives. No fan should donate a dime of their hard earned money to these things. And don't let the slimy people who run or the agents who get a huge cut from them try and guilt you into it. This is not how real businesses behave. "Iowa won't be able to compete without you giving your money [to spoiled athletes]!" Oh, I'm sorry ... yeah, no I'm not. I don't care. If you are relying on ME for that last couple hundy of the 6 and 7 digit deals to pay your employees who have no contractual obligations nor performance incentives, then your business model is trash a**.

 

[hawk224]

Hard to blame anyone for leaving. The coaches they knew and the other players they were friends and teammates with are gone. Players’ ties to a university largely consist in the relationships they have with the people there, not in being loyal to the Hawkeye brand. When all those people are gone, and you can get paid life changing money to move on, it would be tough to say no

 

[Titanhawk2]

Interesting quote

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Can't disagree at all, not if you ever read these boards

 

[AmericaNeedsMe]

Agreed. Universities, coaches, and athletes: listen carefully to me. You wanted the smoke of being professional sports, now you need to act like them. Acting like them does not include begging your fans on the street corners for their change to pay the players millions of dollars or blaming them for not finding value in your product. It means successfully running your business so you can pay them your dang selves. GTFOH with these stupid collectives. No fan should donate a dime of their hard earned money to these things. And don't let the slimy people who run or the agents who get a huge cut from them try and guilt you into it. This is not how real businesses behave. "Iowa won't be able to compete without you giving your money [to spoiled athletes]!" Oh, I'm sorry ... yeah, no I'm not. I don't care. If you are relying on ME for that last couple hundy of the 6 and 7 digit deals to pay your employees who have no contractual obligations nor performance incentives, then your business model is trash a**.

If wealthy alums want to donate some of the millions they find in their couch cushions to stroke their egos, it's none of my beeswax. More power to them. Hell, I'll even say "thank you."

But shaming middle class people into shelling out money for athletes and their agents is fatally flawed both morally and as a business model.

Put a good product out there, and I'll buy tickets and merch. I'm not sending you cash to pay some kid's agent. You can f*ck right off with that nonsense.

 

[iahawkeyes17]

Interesting quote

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Talk about taking part of his quote out of context. It’s such a pathetic excuse to try and blame the fans.

Players want to be treated and paid like pros so be it. But just like nba when your team isn’t winning fans aren’t showing up. Even for teams like lakers post Kobe, bulls after MJ or Celtics in 90s. Down years proud franchises fans aren’t coming as much. Minus few blue bloods same goes for college ball.

Iowa fans will give their time and resources to watch teams like football, wrestling, women’s b-ball of late and men’s. But when team is bad or not fun watching we will still give our time to watch but not or $ to go pay and watch live. Watching efforts on road vs UCLA, USC, Wisc. Doesn’t inspire fans to get tix. As someone who went to Minn. game doesn’t make you want to spend another dime on going to see a game rest of the year. To those who do, god bless them. But it’s so weak to say fans part of the problem who don’t want to waste money on a garbage product. Want more fans winning cures all.

 

[djwoody]

There will be a lot more empty arenas in the future. All of the games are on TV where you don’t have to pay $30 for a stale hot dog and a beer on top of the ticket price. Iowa thinks “we’re the Hawkeyes” and that’s enough. It’s not. Go see a game at any other venue and Iowa falls short in every way from an entertainment and concessions standpoint.

Add to that the free agent nature of “college” sports now and there will be people who will quickly lose interest. While I have no problem with players getting paid, this Wild West process is not sustainable.

 

[Etalicus]

The fanbase absolutely quit on the team, except for taking the time to bitch about them.

Well let's be honest that all the team has been good for. Atleast they go some interest from the fans

 

[onionman1]

If "quitting on the team" means choosing not to spend time and money on a shitty product, then...yeah...many fans finally "quit" wasting time and money on a product that brought them nothing but frustration.

Fran walks away tens of millions of dollars richer. Players walk away hundreds of thousands of dollars richer. Fans walk away poorer but they're the bad guys. lol

Fan blaming is what happens when organizations lose the plot. I'm sad to see Mac start out on a bad foot.

Exactly.

it's a crock to blame this on the fans.

Iowa has great fans who appreciate good basketball. What they were getting, well.... wasn't. All this while watching the coach stand on the sideline with his hands in his pockets as if he didn't even care what was going on.

This all was status-quo the past few years, and fans got tired of it. If some players didn't want to be a part of the build-back and the regeneration of excitement, then they can go chase their $$. And that's what they decided to do, also very understandably.

 

[Rick Pigeons]

Anyone who believes with the “fans quit on the team concept” probably doesn’t have a family life, kids, a career, professional activities, adult responsibilities etc. and has probably not emotionally matured.

 

[83Hawk]

Anyone who believes with the “fans quit on the team concept” probably doesn’t have a family life, kids, a career, professional activities, adult responsibilities etc. and has probably not emotionally matured.

In the “old days”, before collegiate sports became the big money behemoth it is today, fans had loyalty to their teams and tended to stick with them thru thick and thin.

Times have changed. There is an ever increasing competition for people’s $$. The cost to attend even one game is becoming prohibitive for a family. Players are now getting paid…often insane amounts. And fans are expected to foot the bill. If that’s the case, the team darn well better perform well. Fans are not obligated to keep coughing up more and more and more money for a collegiate team, nor should they be obligated to show up to watch a product that underperforms out of “loyalty”. Players aren’t loyal anymore…why must the fans be?

It’s all a money grab now. And fans have a right to reject it.

 

[eyesofhawk]

So they left for a payday, just like I said. Thanks for proving my point.

Not how Ben characterized it

 

[CaboKP]

How is that an uncomfortable truth? The team wasn't fun to watch, so people didn't. An uncomfortable truth would be selling out for a sub par performance game in and game out and expecting anything to change.

Agreed.
I am not sure I've missed watching any Iowa basketball games on TV or in person (unless I had a conflict) until this year. There were at least 7-8 games I didn't watch simply because I didn't care to even look up their schedule.

I've been a fan of watching every game since I was 5 years old (for 40 years). 40 year fans don't quit watching on a whim.

 

[TailgateTom]

Not how Ben characterized it

IT DOESN'T MATTER....FFS MAN.

You literally just supported my point with your previous post. Stop arguing just to argue.

 

[TritonHawkeye]

Like it or not apathy towards the team sealed Fran's fate. The moment of shift probably happened when the Hawks lost to Richmond, it just felt like a rinse/repeat and the product was never as good as that team. The next year the Hawks lose to Auburn, then missed the tournament the following two years. No one wanted to see Fran rebuild to just end up in the same spot of losing early in the tournament, ignoring the need for better guards and a blindness to playing defense. So the fans spoke, and by fans this includes students and boosters.

Losing Josh or Pryce doesn't matter to me as I think we are better off moving forward with Ben and am glad that the fans sent Beth a message that we were done with Fran and a bunch of players that couldn't move the needle.

Ben should be celebrating that the fans spoke with their wallets, it carved a path for him to take over the program.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

100% blame is on the AD department for allowing the same old stuff for 15 years.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Again, I think you are mischaracterizing what Mac said in order to get to your regular narrative.

Mac has repeatedly said that the team needs to earn fans back. Bennett has said the same thing. They’ve talked about how last year at Drake, the fans weren’t there at first, but eventually they earned them back.

Mac then invited fans to come along for the ride. Here’s the quote from the Leistikow interview:



Perhaps it’s semantics, but I think it’s a completely different nuance than what you are describing. He’s not “calling out fans” or blaming them in any way. He’s inviting them along to help build something together. It’s a nuance that we ought to be able to comprehend.

It’s been a while since we’ve had a MBB coach who took an inviting tone toward fans. For much of the past 15 years, the relationship has almost been adversarial. I think the change in approach can make a big difference in fan decisions.

Not sure where anybody has said Ben has "called out or blamed" fans. I certainly haven't said that.

He said that lack of attendance seemed to be part of the reasoning for Josh and Pryce leaving.

I've listened to the whole interview and Ben also talks about wanting "fans before results". That's not a characterization on my part. I can't relink the interview at the moment, but that was pretty much a direct quote.

You can call it an "invitation". To me, it seemed more like an expectation. This is what he wants and hopes to get done. Again, he also said the best fanbases show up no matter what, so I'm assuming he expects the best

 

[danny14]

It's an entertainment business when you have to pay to see the product. When you go to a movie or out for a pizza you don't say positive things if it's bad, and I doubt you would go back for 15 years to see if they're going to get better!

 

[eyesofhawk]

IT DOESN'T MATTER....FFS MAN.

You literally just supported my point with your previous post. Stop arguing just to argue.

Dude, Ben's quote is right here at the top of the thread for everyone to see. He clearly said he believes poor fan attendance was part of the reasoning for Josh and Pryce leaving.

Of course money was also part of that reasoning.

I'm not sure what there is to argue here

 

[eyesofhawk]

there's stupid and then there's this.
Fans taking accountability??? WTF they didn't riot and tear down carver.
You obviously are a social misfit that can't comprehend what a fan message board is for and about. Get over it.
If any player comes here to stroke their ego, f them. They are making more money than virtually everyone on the is board. For you to constantly whine about how they are spoken about is childish. GROW UP.

Not sure I've ever once discussed players reading this board.

So tell me, just what is a fan message board for?

 

[TailgateTom]

Dude, Ben's quote is right here at the top of the thread for everyone to see. He clearly said he believes poor fan attendance was part of the reasoning for Josh and Pryce leaving.

Of course money was also part of that reasoning.

I'm not sure what there is to argue here

Ben can say whatever he wants, but if the fans bugged them so much they would have been out the door and never looked back. Fact of the matter is they both took much larger pay days (good for them) but don't say it's because of the fans, because it wasn't. It's a BS cop out.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Ben can say whatever he wants, but if the fans bugged them so much they would have been out the door and never looked back. Fact of the matter is they both took much larger pay days (good for them) but don't say it's because of the fans, because it wasn't. It's a BS cop out.

You can say whatever you want, but nobody cares.

Ben answered the question directly and honestly, as he has handled everything else. He wasn't giving his thoughts as much as presenting some of the reasoning Josh and Pryce gave for leaving.

He has no reason to make something like this up. I'm not sure why you are having trouble taking it at face value

 

[TailgateTom]

You can say whatever you want, but nobody cares.

Ben answered the question directly and honestly, as he has handled everything else. He wasn't giving his thoughts as much as presenting some of the reasoning Josh and Pryce gave for leaving.

He has no reason to make something like this up. I'm not sure why you are having trouble taking it at face value

Ben wants butts in the seats...why is that a difficult concept for you to understand? Do you believe everything a coach says? It's silly even entertain the thought that these guys were so distraught about fan attendance that when given the opportunity to bolt, they both had second and third thoughts. Logically the fans in fact, weren't that big of a deal, and they took their pay day vs staying for less. As mentioned, blaming the fans was the easy thing to do instead. We don't want guys who are more focused on the fans then their own performance, so it worked out for everyone in the end.

 

[Hawkaholic18]

Have an enjoyable/entertaining product and I'll go (see Iowa WBB). It was hard to watch them, even on tv... at home. I still go back to the Wisconsin player quote, "we like playing them (Iowa), because they don't play defense".

 

[eyesofhawk]

Ben wants butts in the seats...why is that a difficult concept for you to understand? Do you believe everything a coach says? It's silly even entertain the thought that these guys were so distraught about fan attendance that when given the opportunity to bolt, they both had second and third thoughts. Logically the fans in fact, weren't that big of a deal, and they took their pay day vs staying for less. As mentioned, blaming the fans was the easy thing to do instead. We don't want guys who are more focused on the fans then their own performance, so it worked out for everyone in the end.

Of course Ben wants butts in the seats. But he has no reason to put words into the mouths of former players to try to acquire those fans. He seems much more direct and respectful than to do that.

Nobody said the lack of attendance was THE reason those guys left. Of course they are going to analyze what Ben brings. And lack of fan attendance can remain part of their overall calculus. And evidently, it was a big enough part of their calculus to get mention from Ben

 

[Beattheohiostate]

Interesting quote

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That's hilarious. "The fans quit on the team." Maybe . . . and I'm just spitballin' here . . . maybe Fran and his team failed to attract fans. Maybe win more games. Maybe play Drake and UNI instead of the 350th and 360th-ranked teams in the entire damn country. Maybe make the NCAA tournament and, if you do, don't lose to Richmond. Maybe Fran could have made any effort at all to connect with students and the fan base at large.

The fans are NOT the problem. Check out the women's program. See wrestling. Football, despite its world's worst offense, still filled Kinnick Stadium. The evidence and the facts would suggest it was the fault of the men's basketball program, not the fans. Blaming the fans . . . that's quite a take.

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

I think anyone...ANYONE...would play in front of empty seats if you pay them enough money.
Money almost always wins.

 

[eyesofhawk]

That's hilarious. "The fans quit on the team." Maybe . . . and I'm just spitballin' here . . . maybe Fran and his team failed to attract fans. Maybe win more games. Maybe play Drake and UNI instead of the 350th and 360th-ranked teams in the entire damn country. Maybe make the NCAA tournament and, if you do, don't lose to Richmond. Maybe Fran could have made any effort at all to connect with students and the fan base at large.

The fans are NOT the problem. Check out the women's program. See wrestling. Football, despite its world's worst offense, still filled Kinnick Stadium. The evidence and the facts would suggest it was the fault of the men's basketball program, not the fans. Blaming the fans . . . that's quite a take.

I don't see where anyone has blamed the fans or said they were THE problem.

The guy said fans quit on the team. It's ok to acknowledge that fact

 

[eyesofhawk]

Eyesofhawk are what give us Iowa fans a bad name!

I'm becoming more and more convinced you are giving humans a bad name

 

[Bro D]

Disappointing statement considering Fran is 100% to blame. He effectively killed any sort of resemblance of the player-fan relationship. Add in underperforming teams with zero success in the NCAA tournament, and here we are. Luckily we have the best fans in the Big Ten and it shouldn't take much to restore the relationship.