Fear mongering

[Gimmered]

Your questions above make the assumption that we cannot quickly scale up production to meet overseas demand. As of the end of 2024, capacity utilization of all us auto plants in production was around 65%, meaning many plants are running way below full tilt.

Has the cost of labor gone down?
Have the burden and benefits of that labor gone down?

I already addressed the labor question by pointing out we could still sell our vehicles in markets where workers get paid similarly. Not China of course.

Tell me this, (and I have asked this before at other times), if it is so impossible for US automakers to even think about selling our cars in other world markets, then why in the world do these other countries even have any tariffs at all on our autos? That is just a shot at us for apparently no reason at all.

Well?

You are asking questions that someone who has never stepped one foot into a factory would ask. The 8-10 year labor crisis that we have been facing is only part of the problem with immediately ramping up production. For a manufacturer to ramp up production, his supplier would have needed to ramp up production, and their supplier. To manufacture, you need raw materials to work with. You need trained workers, you need logistics. This doesn't turn on a dime, and it certainly doesn't turn on a temporary market. It also doesn't turn when your raw materials face a tariff.

Samsung faces a tariff if they import to the US. Samsung faces a tariff on components if they set up manufacturing in the US. Samsung however faces no tariffs if they ship components to Mexico and build in their factory there nor do they face a tariff if they ship into the US on products made in Mexico. Where do you think Samsung is going to increase their production? Who is winning biggly here?

 

[Hawkman34]

Why have tariffs at all?

Are you advocating for zero tariffs for imports into the US?

Sure...as long as we get the same treatment on our exports to other countries.

 

[Hawkman34]

Why does the US have tariffs on countries it does little to no business with? If these are profitable markets why haven't the US auto makers invested more in foreign manufacturing plants to avoid tariffs? I know that most countries (US included) have used tariffs in some way to generate funds or block countries from hurting their local producers. And, I would be thrilled with a zero for zero tariff agreement. Then, if there are things that we can't make cheaper (like much of the stuff from China) then we will be buying......but that still affords us the opportunity to make inroads. You asked why US auto companies haven't built plants to avoid the tariffs. I was already told in this thread (indirectly) that we could not even do that here to make it worth it. So, that is your answer.

Your question highlights your lack of knowledge beyond a few seach headlines.

Do you think there would be investment costs for auto manufacturers to significantly increase demand? What factors do you think go into a decision like that? Do you see any risks? Any obstacles? These are great questions, and I admit that they are hard for me to answer. I only know that I have seen headlines from US automakers complaining about European counties making it hard to sell their cars. I think you also pointed out the issues with regulations (safety and emissions standards) they have to deal with (and have done a bad job of doing), as well as brand preferance that are also obsticals.

 

[DFSNOLE]

Nothing needs to change. What makes you think the way we manufacture here in the US would make it impossible to sell our cars in many other markets?

You brought up cars today. You have talked about bringing manufacturing back to the US since the beginning of this thread. Now that, maybe, you realize it's not going to happen, you've pivoted to cars.

Admit it. Your position is bullshit. Unless you're willing to accept massive inflation, it's not going to happen. Maybe it's about time to admit Trump is also FOS.

 

[Hawkman34]

You are asking questions that someone who has never stepped one foot into a factory would ask. The 8-10 year labor crisis that we have been facing is only part of the problem with immediately ramping up production. For a manufacturer to ramp up production, his supplier would have needed to ramp up production, and their supplier. To manufacture, you need raw materials to work with. You need trained workers, you need logistics. This doesn't turn on a dime, and it certainly doesn't turn on a temporary market. It also doesn't turn when your raw materials face a tariff. I have never said they could turn on production is a week. That was never the point. It was suggested to me that we would need to build new plants, and that is not true. US automakers have lines not operating right now, that could operate. China seems to be able to take a US idea, steal it and turn around and sell it back to us cheaper...and they do it fast. You don't think we could bring back trained workers who used to do that work or train new ones?

Samsung faces a tariff if they import to the US. Samsung faces a tariff on components if they set up manufacturing in the US. Samsung however faces no tariffs if they ship components to Mexico and build in their factory there nor do they face a tariff if they ship into the US on products made in Mexico. Where do you think Samsung is going to increase their production? Who is winning biggly here? You are preaching to the choir about Samsung and Mexico. Chian does the same thing. And guess what Trump just talked about stopping that no one else would talk about. So, I am hopeful that this can be addressed too.

 

[Hawkman34]

You brought up cars today. You have talked about bringing manufacturing back to the US since the beginning of this thread. Now that, maybe, you realize it's not going to happen, you've pivoted to cars.

Admit it. Your position is bullshit. Unless you're willing to accept massive inflation, it's not going to happen. Maybe it's about time to admit Trump is also FOS.

Tariffs affects both domestic production (bringing back manufacturing) and exports of our manufactured goods to other countries. I brought up cars because I have heard about Detriot being pissed about how other countries deal with our cars. Be upset with Detroit if you want, but I have not pivoted on anything. Again, if we have massive inflation because of this, he and the Rep will be crushed. How many times do I have to make this statement. In lue of me being able to change his direction on this issue, I have chosen to have some hope and faith this works.

But in the end, it is this simple, your bind hate for ANYTHING Trump clouds all of your statements and won't let you even consider that he might be doing some good in even a few areas. Bill Maher and Gretchen Whitmer have already made strides on this.........and you can't.

 

[Gimmered]

Dude, really, learn how to quote and reply.

China has been pumping out engineers 10-1 over the US, they don't need our Ideas. They have built clean modern factories and can put out outstanding products.

 

[RileyHawk]

I know that most countries (US included) have used tariffs in some way to generate funds or block countries from hurting their local producers. And, I would be thrilled with a zero for zero tariff agreement. Then, if there are things that we can't make cheaper (like much of the stuff from China) then we will be buying......but that still affords us the opportunity to make inroads. You asked why US auto companies haven't built plants to avoid the tariffs. I was already told in this thread (indirectly) that we could not even do that here to make it worth it. So, that is your answer.

These are great questions, and I admit that they are hard for me to answer. I only know that I have seen headlines from US automakers complaining about European counties making it hard to sell their cars. I think you also pointed out the issues with regulations (safety and emissions standards) they have to deal with (and have done a bad job of doing), as well as brand preferance that are also obsticals.


Well - you answered your own question. Take some time to think about it and read beyond the headlines right wing propaganda and you won't look so foolish.

 

[RileyHawk]

Tariffs affects both domestic production (bringing back manufacturing) and exports of our manufactured goods to other countries. I brought up cars because I have heard about Detriot being pissed about how other countries deal with our cars. Be upset with Detroit if you want, but I have not pivoted on anything. Again, if we have massive inflation because of this, he and the Rep will be crushed. How many times do I have to make this statement. In lue of me being able to change his direction on this issue, I have chosen to have some hope and faith this works.

But in the end, it is this simple, your bind hate for ANYTHING Trump clouds all of your statements and won't let you even consider that he might be doing some good in even a few areas. Bill Maher and Gretchen Whitmer have already made strides on this.........and you can't.

Why are you defending Trump when you advocate for 0 tariffs and Trump loves tariffs?

You inability to see byond your nose is striking.

 

[DFSNOLE]

Tariffs affects both domestic production (bringing back manufacturing) and exports of our manufactured goods to other countries. I brought up cars because I have heard about Detriot being pissed about how other countries deal with our cars. Be upset with Detroit if you want, but I have not pivoted on anything. Again, if we have massive inflation because of this, he and the Rep will be crushed. How many times do I have to make this statement. In lue of me being able to change his direction on this issue, I have chosen to have some hope and faith this works.

But in the end, it is this simple, your bind hate for ANYTHING Trump clouds all of your statements and won't let you even consider that he might be doing some good in even a few areas. Bill Maher and Gretchen Whitmer have already made strides on this.........and you can't.

Wrong. You cannot or will not admit raising tariffs will not miraculously bring manufacturing back to the US. Your level of Trump Defense Syndrome prevents you from saying the obvious. In this thread, you have pivoted from waiting for the tariffs to work even if it causes a 30% drop in the markets to shipping some of the manufacturing from China to India to automobiles.
As soon as you admit you're in a cult and are wrong, the sooner you will see the light. Keep dancing Fred Astaire.

 

[Gimmered]

Tariffs affects both domestic production

Exactly, raising prices of our raw material will make it much more expensive.

(bringing back manufacturing)

Wrong. No one is investing in US manufacturing because of the unstable business environment and tariffs on raw materials.

and exports of our manufactured goods to other countries.

Correct, much more expensive to produce along with retallitory tariffs

Again, if we have massive inflation because of this, he and the Rep will be crushed.

Inflation is a given. there is no way around it. Every part of the process just got more expensive.

 

[Hawkman34]

Dude, really, learn how to quote and reply.

China has been pumping out engineers 10-1 over the US, they don't need our Ideas. They have built clean modern factories and can put out outstanding products.

Dude, do your own research and understand what the rest of the world has already called out. The Chinese send more students to the US to learn, twice as many as they send to any other country, but ya...they don't need our knowledge.

Great original products? Look at the stuff TEMU sells to US customers. Fake Iphones? Really. BTW, their sales were projected to reach 60 billion by the end of last year.

I guess it is clear you are a Chinese supporter and protector.....

 

[Hawkman34]

I know that most countries (US included) have used tariffs in some way to generate funds or block countries from hurting their local producers. And, I would be thrilled with a zero for zero tariff agreement. Then, if there are things that we can't make cheaper (like much of the stuff from China) then we will be buying......but that still affords us the opportunity to make inroads. You asked why US auto companies haven't built plants to avoid the tariffs. I was already told in this thread (indirectly) that we could not even do that here to make it worth it. So, that is your answer.

These are great questions, and I admit that they are hard for me to answer. I only know that I have seen headlines from US automakers complaining about European counties making it hard to sell their cars. I think you also pointed out the issues with regulations (safety and emissions standards) they have to deal with (and have done a bad job of doing), as well as brand preferance that are also obsticals.


Well - you answered your own question. Take some time to think about it and read beyond the headlines right wing propaganda and you won't look so foolish.

No, I pointed out that I understand why many countries use tariffs. That doesn't mean some have not abused them with regard to the US......which they have. And, are you saying that Whittmer and the UAW have not come out in support of Trump on the Traiff issue with regard to bringing more production back to the US? You need to quit watching your leftist media and burying your head so that you see ALL the news. You know you could learn from Bill Maher and Whittmer.

 

[DFSNOLE]

I guess it is clear you are a Chinese supporter and protector.....

It's also been made clear in this thread that you're willing to have people lose 30% of their portfolio and deal with massive inflation in hopes your guy gets a win.

All of that despite every economic mind says what he's doing is bound for failure.

 

[Hawkman34]

It's also been made clear in this thread that you're willing to have people lose 30% of their portfolio and deal with massive inflation in hopes your guy gets a win.

All of that despite every economic mind says what he's doing is bound for failure.

So, you do admit that you are a Chinese supporter. Good to know.

And, I am sure that when Biden caused inflation to hit 9% by printing money that wasn't there (and claiming inflation was transitory to boot), you were cheering him on.

And, where are you getting your 30% number. This downturn is significant. I have never said otherwise. I have also said that I do understand why some older people are very worried and upset. I know you and many others who agree with you on here are part of that group. But, compared to other downturns in the last 25 years, this is not as bad (yet). But, it WILL come back. BTW, here are the numbers

• October 15, 2008 (Financial Crisis): The S&P 500 fell 9.03%, and the Dow dropped 7.87% (733 points), amid panic over the deepening global financial crisis and Lehman Brothers’ collapse.
• December 1, 2008 (Financial Crisis): The S&P 500 declined 8.93%, and the Dow fell 7.7% (679.95 points), as markets reacted to worsening economic data and recession fears.
• September 29, 2008 (Financial Crisis): The Dow fell 6.98% (777.68 points), and the S&P 500 dropped 8.81%, after Congress rejected a proposed bank bailout bill.
• March 16, 2020 (COVID-19 Crash): The S&P 500 plummeted 11.98%, and the Dow fell 12.93% (2,997 points), the largest single-day point drop for both at the time, driven by pandemic fears.
• March 12, 2020 (COVID-19 Crash): The S&P 500 dropped 9.51%, and the Dow fell 9.99% (2,352 points), as COVID-19 uncertainty intensified.
• April 4, 2025 (Tariff-Induced Sell-Off): The S&P 500 fell nearly 6% (322 points), and the Dow dropped 5.5% (2,231 points), triggered by fears of a trade war from Trump’s tariff announcements.
• April 3, 2025 (Tariff-Induced Sell-Off): The S&P 500 declined 4.8%, and the Dow fell 4% (1,700 points), the worst single-day loss since June 2020, due to tariff concerns.

 

[RileyHawk]

No, I pointed out that I understand why many countries use tariffs. That doesn't mean some have not abused them with regard to the US......which they have. And, are you saying that Whittmer and the UAW have not come out in support of Trump on the Traiff issue with regard to bringing more production back to the US? You need to quit watching your leftist media and burying your head so that you see ALL the news. You know you could learn from Bill Maher and Whittmer.

Which is why you answered your own question of why have tariffs. You're objecting to "abuse" by other countries while supporting the utter destruction Trump has put in place. At the least that's incongruent but in reality it's simply hypocritical.

Gretchen Whitmer is not supportive of Trump's tariff - that is a lie.

In February 2025, Governor Whitmer issued a strong statement opposing Trump's proposed 25% tariffs on imported goods. She emphasized that such tariffs would raise costs on essential items like groceries, home heating, and automobiles, adversely affecting Michigan residents. She described these tariffs as a "middle-class tax hike" that could harm the state's auto industry and jeopardize over a million jobs .

Again, your lack of critical thinking is mind boggling. That coupled with your propensity to spew falsehoods is one of the reasons you can't be taken seriously in anything.

 

[RileyHawk]

So, you do admit that you are a Chinese supporter. Good to know.

And, I am sure that when Biden caused inflation to hit 9% by printing money that wasn't there (and claiming inflation was transitory to boot), you were cheering him on.

And, where are you getting your 30% number. This downturn is significant. I have never said otherwise. I have also said that I do understand why some older people are very worried and upset. I know you and many others who agree with you on here are part of that group. But, compared to other downturns in the last 25 years, this is not as bad (yet). But, it WILL come back. BTW, here are the numbers

• October 15, 2008 (Financial Crisis): The S&P 500 fell 9.03%, and the Dow dropped 7.87% (733 points), amid panic over the deepening global financial crisis and Lehman Brothers’ collapse.
• December 1, 2008 (Financial Crisis): The S&P 500 declined 8.93%, and the Dow fell 7.7% (679.95 points), as markets reacted to worsening economic data and recession fears.
• September 29, 2008 (Financial Crisis): The Dow fell 6.98% (777.68 points), and the S&P 500 dropped 8.81%, after Congress rejected a proposed bank bailout bill.
• March 16, 2020 (COVID-19 Crash): The S&P 500 plummeted 11.98%, and the Dow fell 12.93% (2,997 points), the largest single-day point drop for both at the time, driven by pandemic fears.
• March 12, 2020 (COVID-19 Crash): The S&P 500 dropped 9.51%, and the Dow fell 9.99% (2,352 points), as COVID-19 uncertainty intensified.
• April 4, 2025 (Tariff-Induced Sell-Off): The S&P 500 fell nearly 6% (322 points), and the Dow dropped 5.5% (2,231 points), triggered by fears of a trade war from Trump’s tariff announcements.
• April 3, 2025 (Tariff-Induced Sell-Off): The S&P 500 declined 4.8%, and the Dow fell 4% (1,700 points), the worst single-day loss since June 2020, due to tariff concerns.

This downturn is not over.

Are you advocating stimulus again?

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

In this threads, soy boy dems suck China man's cock..... much LoL, more at 5.

 

[DFSNOLE]

So, you do admit that you are a Chinese supporter. Good to know.

And, I am sure that when Biden caused inflation to hit 9% by printing money that wasn't there (and claiming inflation was transitory to boot), you were cheering him on.

And, where are you getting your 30% number. This downturn is significant. I have never said otherwise. I have also said that I do understand why some older people are very worried and upset. I know you and many others who agree with you on here are part of that group. But, compared to other downturns in the last 25 years, this is not as bad (yet). But, it WILL come back. BTW, here are the numbers

• October 15, 2008 (Financial Crisis): The S&P 500 fell 9.03%, and the Dow dropped 7.87% (733 points), amid panic over the deepening global financial crisis and Lehman Brothers’ collapse.
• December 1, 2008 (Financial Crisis): The S&P 500 declined 8.93%, and the Dow fell 7.7% (679.95 points), as markets reacted to worsening economic data and recession fears.
• September 29, 2008 (Financial Crisis): The Dow fell 6.98% (777.68 points), and the S&P 500 dropped 8.81%, after Congress rejected a proposed bank bailout bill.
• March 16, 2020 (COVID-19 Crash): The S&P 500 plummeted 11.98%, and the Dow fell 12.93% (2,997 points), the largest single-day point drop for both at the time, driven by pandemic fears.
• March 12, 2020 (COVID-19 Crash): The S&P 500 dropped 9.51%, and the Dow fell 9.99% (2,352 points), as COVID-19 uncertainty intensified.
• April 4, 2025 (Tariff-Induced Sell-Off): The S&P 500 fell nearly 6% (322 points), and the Dow dropped 5.5% (2,231 points), triggered by fears of a trade war from Trump’s tariff announcements.
• April 3, 2025 (Tariff-Induced Sell-Off): The S&P 500 declined 4.8%, and the Dow fell 4% (1,700 points), the worst single-day loss since June 2020, due to tariff concerns.

I'm pro American consumer. You have no concern for the loss of buying power these tariffs will cause on lower and middle class families.
Biden caused 9% inflation? How about Biden kept it at 9% which was lower than most every other industrialized nation.

You should pay more attention to what you post. These quotes are from pages 10-11 in this thread.

Again. How much is too much? Give me a number.

Why won't you give me a number? 15%? 20%? 30%?

I don't want a time-line. Give me a number that you're willing to risk yours and everyone else's retirement on.

Ahhh....I thought you were looking for a time line this whole time. Well, I would say 30% as I truly believe the in the short term it could do that. We saw a 38% drop during the pandemic. The thing is that I think it will come back even stronger when this all shakes out. My company is in the R/E industry, and the lending and housing market has been in shambles for 4 years. These moves could end up helping the housing community if the Fed lowers the rates. Some predictions that I heard yesterday are the we could land in the 5%-6% range in the end, and that is the sweet spot for a healthy housing market.

 

[Gimmered]

Dude, do your own research and understand what the rest of the world has already called out. The Chinese send more students to the US to learn, twice as many as they send to any other country, but ya...they don't need our knowledge.

Great original products? Look at the stuff TEMU sells to US customers. Fake Iphones? Really. BTW, their sales were projected to reach 60 billion by the end of last year.

I guess it is clear you are a Chinese supporter and protector.....

The Global Distribution of STEM Graduates: Which Countries Lead the Way? | Center for Security and Emerging Technology

Discover how the global landscape of STEM graduates is shifting, potentially reshaping the future of innovation and education worldwide. This blog post analyzes recent education data from the countries with the most graduates in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM) fields...

cset.georgetown.edu

Who said anything about knowledge?

Of course they produce knock offs. We all know that. They produce knock offs of their own products too. But look at BYD and what is coming off their assembly lines. These are the best EVs in the world and China doesn't want them ion the US because they know we will try to reverse engineer them. Look at what they have done with their high speed train system. While we we spending a trillion dollars rearranging rocks in Afghanistan they were connecting every city.

You don't need to be a Chinese protector to understand that they have surpassed the US as the world leader. You just need to step away from the Red Wave memes.

 

[Gimmered]

And, I am sure that when Biden caused inflation to hit 9% by printing money that wasn't there (and claiming inflation was transitory to boot), you were cheering him on.

This is effin laughable when 2/3rds of the stimulus checks had Trumps signature on them. Coupled by his tax cuts as he spent like a drunken sailor. Now your just being a clown.

 

[RileyHawk]

This is effin laughable when 2/3rds of the stimulus checks had Trumps signature on them. Coupled by his tax cuts as he spent like a drunken sailor. Now your just being a clown.

Undoubtedly this will be spun to something that aligns with right wing ideology.

 

[prlyles]

Nothing needs to change. What makes you think the way we manufacture here in the US would make it impossible to sell our cars in many other markets?

Because of the cost? Damn man....

 

[Gimmered]

Undoubtedly this will be spun to something that aligns with right wing ideology.

The guy has a great point as far as selling counterfeit Iphones. But looking deeper into that. How badly is it hurting Apple? Are they about to collapse? Is there no other avenues to fix this? Right now we have millions of small manufactures and businesses that are! Tens of millions of Americans are about to lose their jobs so we can protect large tech, and oh BTW, the company we are trying to protect just got a special exemption from the same tariff that about to close millions of businesses.

That is just some short sighted bullshit MAGA thinking there. I'm sure there will be some way for him to rationalize this too, just like the Canadian quotas that have never been reached, ever.

 

[Hawkman34]

Dude, really, learn how to quote and reply.

China has been pumping out engineers 10-1 over the US, they don't need our Ideas. They have built clean modern factories and can put out outstanding products.

Goodness, I have been gone a while and thought maybe I would have some replies, but it is clear now that you, Nole and Riley never leave this site. WTH??

Look, the U.S. maintains a strong edge in pioneering concepts that reshape industries, with lots of innovation ecosystems, cultural factors, and measurable outcomes. Here are key facts supporting this that I was able to find:

1. Patent Leadership: The U.S. leads globally in patent filings, with over 600,000 applications annually through the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, outpacing China’s ~400,000. Many are high-impact patents in fields like AI, biotech, and semiconductors, reflecting novel ideas that drive industry shifts.
2. Tech Giants and Startups: U.S. companies like Apple, Google, and Tesla consistently introduce transformative products—iPhone redefined mobile communication, Google’s search algorithms reshaped information access, and Tesla accelerated the electric vehicle revolution. The U.S. startup scene, centered in Silicon Valley, fosters disruptive ventures like SpaceX, which pioneered reusable rockets, cutting space launch costs dramatically.
3. Venture Capital Dominance: The U.S. attracts over $150 billion in venture capital yearly, nearly half the global total, fueling startups that redefine sectors. For example, OpenAI’s ChatGPT sparked an AI race, setting new benchmarks for natural language processing. This capital flow supports risk-taking and experimentation unmatched elsewhere.
4. Academic and Research Powerhouses: U.S. universities like MIT, Stanford, and Caltech produce cutting-edge research and talent. CRISPR gene-editing technology, co-developed at UC Berkeley, revolutionized biotech. The U.S. also hosts 70% of the world’s top 10 universities (per QS Rankings), nurturing ideas that spawn industries.
5. Cultural Edge: The U.S. entrepreneurial spirit, emphasizing individual initiative and failure tolerance, drives innovation. This contrasts with more risk-averse cultures. For instance, Amazon’s pivot from books to cloud computing (AWS) redefined tech infrastructure, now holding ~32% of the global cloud market.
6. Government and Private R&D: U.S. R&D spending exceeds $700 billion annually (~3% of GDP), with private firms like Pfizer (mRNA vaccines) and government programs like DARPA (internet’s origins) seeding breakthroughs. This dwarfs other nations’ investments, enabling long-term bets on concepts like quantum computing.

Yes, China excels in scaling and manufacturing, but the U.S. remains the crucible for ideas that disrupt and redefine—think 3D printing, blockchain, or autonomous driving. The interplay of open markets, diverse talent, and a culture celebrating bold bets keeps it ahead. We want to have some of the same manufacturing prowess they have...that we used to have. What is so wrong with that?

 

[Hawkman34]

Why are you defending Trump when you advocate for 0 tariffs and Trump loves tariffs?

You inability to see byond your nose is striking.

Trump has always said he would use Traiffs to change trade. He said it 30 years ago. If he can accompolish this using tariffs as his tool, then I love them too.

Just like your two friends on here, your blind hate for all things Trumps clouds every statement you make.

 

[Hawkman34]

Wrong. You cannot or will not admit raising tariffs will not miraculously bring manufacturing back to the US. Your level of Trump Defense Syndrome prevents you from saying the obvious. In this thread, you have pivoted from waiting for the tariffs to work even if it causes a 30% drop in the markets to shipping some of the manufacturing from China to India to automobiles.
As soon as you admit you're in a cult and are wrong, the sooner you will see the light. Keep dancing Fred Astaire.

Good grief, I have said MANY times this may not work. I have never said it would miraculously bring manufacturing." Please post where I EVER said it would. I have always said it was a goal to bring some back. What is the problem? Of course giving it time to work is normal, and some pain might happen as well. And sorry, but whatever we cannot get away from China and bring back here, I would love to spread around to other countries who are not our enemy. You lack of understanding about who China is, what they have done in the last 30 years to the rest of the world on trade and production (with the help of past US administrations), and what their goals are is astounding.

If you want to love on China and against Amercia, be my guest......but not me.

 

[RileyHawk]

Trump has always said he would use Traiffs to change trade. He said it 30 years ago. If he can accompolish this using tariffs as his tool, then I love them too.

Just like your two friends on here, your blind hate for all things Trumps clouds every statement you make.

But you are the one saying 0 tariffs are your preference. Your blind loyalty to this lying felon doesn't just cloud your judgement - it directs it.

 

[Hawkman34]

Which is why you answered your own question of why have tariffs. You're objecting to "abuse" by other countries while supporting the utter destruction Trump has put in place. At the least that's incongruent but in reality it's simply hypocritical.

Gretchen Whitmer is not supportive of Trump's tariff - that is a lie.

In February 2025, Governor Whitmer issued a strong statement opposing Trump's proposed 25% tariffs on imported goods. She emphasized that such tariffs would raise costs on essential items like groceries, home heating, and automobiles, adversely affecting Michigan residents. She described these tariffs as a "middle-class tax hike" that could harm the state's auto industry and jeopardize over a million jobs .

Again, your lack of critical thinking is mind boggling. That coupled with your propensity to spew falsehoods is one of the reasons you can't be taken seriously in anything.

Trump is simply doing what other countries have done to us for years in a plan to change the scope of trade. You and your friends just want to keep things the same, and then when China decides to pull the plug on us, they will be able to destroy us. Do you even know what they heck they control, of what we buy? Do you?

Why do you think China is known as the "world's factory,". They control significant portions of global supply chains. 36% of ALL U.S. imports from China, over 70% can only be sourced there because they have the only means of production. Imagine what happens if China decides to pull the plug on:

• Lithium-ion Batteries: In 2023, 70% of U.S. lithium-ion battery imports ($13.1 billion) came from China, crucial for electronics, electric vehicles, and energy storage.
  https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-americas-top-imports-from-china/
• Rare Earth Elements (REEs): China dominates global production, providing about 72% of U.S. rare earth imports, essential for magnets in tech, defense systems, and electric motors (e.g., neodymium, dysprosium).

• Pharmaceuticals and Medical Supplies:
  • Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients (APIs): China supplies over 90% of U.S. antibiotics (e.g., penicillin) and 70% of acetaminophen, critical for healthcare.
    https://www.aei.org/op-eds/were-too...-too-many-critical-goods-especially-medicine/
  • Personal Protective Equipment (PPE): During crises like COVID-19, China was a primary source for masks and other PPE, highlighting dependency.

You make sero sense on much of what you say. And, you (like your party) never give any alternatives to fix this. You only complain. Again, blind Trump hate will not get you anywhere. I have zero problem voting for someone not named Trump...as long as they are not brian dead like your man Biden was.

 

[Hawkman34]

It's also been made clear in this thread that you're willing to have people lose 30% of their portfolio and deal with massive inflation in hopes your guy gets a win.

All of that despite every economic mind says what he's doing is bound for failure.

30% in the short term. You act as if the market will never come back...ever. That is rediculous. It's clear you don't invest. For the year, the Dow and Nasdaq have year-to-date declines of 4.6% and 11.3%. Hurting for sure.......but not something that can't be recovered. And no, not every economic mind says what he is doing is bound for failure.

 

[Hawkman34]

This downturn is not over.

Are you advocating stimulus again?

I know the downturn is not over. and no, I am not advocating for a stimulus.

 

[Hawkman34]

I'm pro American consumer. You have no concern for the loss of buying power these tariffs will cause on lower and middle class families.
Biden caused 9% inflation? How about Biden kept it at 9% which was lower than most every other industrialized nation.

You should pay more attention to what you post. These quotes are from pages 10-11 in this thread.

Well, unlike you, I am both pro American consumer and pro Amercian worker. And, where have I ever said that I have no concern for the loss of buying power for the middle class? You claim I make lots of statements that I never make.

Yes, Biden caused inflation.

January 2021 (the month Biden took office): Inflation stood at 1.4%
After his Inflation Reduction Act (You know, where they printed 3/4 of a Trillion dollars out of thin air) it went as high as 9%. And, then the whole time he and Yellen kept lying about inflation being transitory. Now, lest you think I am some Repulican hack, I know full well many Republicans supported that crap legislation.

And finally, you do realise that the whole time you had been asking me the same quetion over and over, I had been logged off. I mean, you know I do have a life. LOL.

 

[Hawkman34]

The Global Distribution of STEM Graduates: Which Countries Lead the Way? | Center for Security and Emerging Technology

Discover how the global landscape of STEM graduates is shifting, potentially reshaping the future of innovation and education worldwide. This blog post analyzes recent education data from the countries with the most graduates in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM) fields...

cset.georgetown.edu

Who said anything about knowledge?

Of course they produce knock offs. We all know that. They produce knock offs of their own products too. But look at BYD and what is coming off their assembly lines. These are the best EVs in the world and China doesn't want them ion the US because they know we will try to reverse engineer them. Look at what they have done with their high speed train system. While we we spending a trillion dollars rearranging rocks in Afghanistan they were connecting every city.

You don't need to be a Chinese protector to understand that they have surpassed the US as the world leader. You just need to step away from the Red Wave memes.

Why send so many students abroad if it isn't for knowledge?

The best EV's in the world? Dude, you would be a great promoter for Xi. Just for clairification, there is no absolute about anything with regard to China's EV's. And, lets be clear...your info on how great any of there things are woudl come from them.

Where Chinese EVs are leading:​

🔋 Battery Technology & Supply Chain​

• China dominates the battery supply chain — from mining materials to building batteries. Companies like CATL and BYD lead in innovation, particularly with lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries, which are cheaper, safer, and now more energy-dense than before.

💰 Price​

• Chinese EVs are often way more affordable. For example, the BYD Seagull sells for under $12,000 in China — and it's a fully functional modern EV.
• Lower production costs, government subsidies, and vertically integrated manufacturing help keep prices low.

🚗 Rapid Innovation​

• Chinese companies iterate quickly. BYD, NIO, XPeng, and others push updates often, lead in vehicle-to-grid tech, and some offer battery swapping (NIO).

________________________________________________________________________________

🇺🇸 Where U.S. EVs are still still lead:​

🌎 Brand and Performance​

• Companies like Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid build EVs with top-tier range, performance, and design.
• Tesla still leads in software, charging infrastructure (Supercharger network), and autonomous driving tech.

🔌 Infrastructure​

• U.S. companies have a more robust and user-friendly charging network, at least domestically. Chinese EVs often depend on localized infrastructure that might not transfer well to global markets.

🛡️ Regulations & Safety​

• U.S. EVs go through stricter safety and environmental standards for international markets. Chinese EVs sometimes lag in crash test results outside China.

You need to step away from the CCP news media.

 

[Hawkman34]

This is effin laughable when 2/3rds of the stimulus checks had Trumps signature on them. Coupled by his tax cuts as he spent like a drunken sailor. Now your just being a clown.

That is a joke. Trump had NOTHING to do with the Inflation Reduction Act. That is when inflation was at it's worst.

Again: facts matter.

January 2021 (the month Biden took office): Inflation stood at 1.4%

After his Inflation Reduction Act (You know, where they printed 3/4 of a Trillion dollars out of thin air) it went as high as 9%. And, then the whole time he and Yellen kept lying about inflation being transitory. Now, lest you think I am some Repulican hack, I know full well many Republicans supported that crap legislation.

 

[Hawkman34]

Because of the cost? Damn man....

Good grief. Are you saying the Germans and Brits can produce cars to sell here, but we can produce cars to sell there? This is unreal.

 

[Hawkman34]

The guy has a great point as far as selling counterfeit Iphones. But looking deeper into that. How badly is it hurting Apple? Are they about to collapse? Is there no other avenues to fix this? Right now we have millions of small manufactures and businesses that are! Tens of millions of Americans are about to lose their jobs so we can protect large tech, and oh BTW, the company we are trying to protect just got a special exemption from the same tariff that about to close millions of businesses.

That is just some short sighted bullshit MAGA thinking there. I'm sure there will be some way for him to rationalize this too, just like the Canadian quotas that have never been reached, ever.

Lets try this a different way.

Trump is trying to do something about trade that you guys do not like. Tell me what you or the Dems would propose to fix ANY of this? What? Status quo? Really? You really want China to keep us at the point we are now where...if they wanted to, they could detroy us by shutting off all those goods that we have become reliant on them for? How long have you guys believed that China was some great American friend?

 

[RileyHawk]

Lets try this a different way.

Trump is trying to do something about trade that you guys do not like. Tell me what you or the Dems would propose to fix ANY of this? What? Status quo? Really? You really want China to keep us at the point we are now where...if they wanted to, they could detroy us by shutting off all those goods that we have become reliant on them for? How long have you guys believed that China was some great American friend?

YOU proposed zero tariffs.

Can't make this level of cognitive dissonance up.

 

[Hawkman34]

But you are the one saying 0 tariffs are your preference. Your blind loyalty to this lying felon doesn't just cloud your judgement - it directs it.

What do you not understand? Zero tariffs would be the ultimate goal. Fair trade across the board.

Again, your TDS will not let you see anything other then "Trump bad".

If Bill Clinton had been on the ticket this year, I would have not only voted for him, but would have campaigned for the man. He was probably the best President we have had in the last 40 years, and he sure as heck was not MAGA.

 

[Hawkman34]

YOU proposed zero tariffs.

Can't make this level of cognitive dissonance up.

Yes, what is wrong with Zero tariffs between every country? Put it into words instead of just repeating yourself.

I will check back tomorrow as I am going to watch a movie with the wife. Enjoy.

 

[RileyHawk]

What do you not understand? Zero tariffs would be the ultimate goal. Fair trade across the board.

Again, your TDS will not let you see anything other then "Trump bad".

If Bill Clinton had been on the ticket this year, I would have not only voted for him, but would have campaigned for the man. He was probably the best President we have had in the last 40 years, and he sure as heck was not MAGA.

And that "ultimate goal" is the exact opposite of Trump's goal yet you defend his actions.

You're too stupid to realize the incongruencies of your statements.