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Fed finds 75% of $800 billion Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) didn't reach workers.

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Phenomenally Frantastic

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Dec 31, 2014
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Fed finds 75% of $800 billion Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) didn't reach workers. More than 90% of the PPP loans were forgiven, going to the ultra-wealthy. A known scam as it was happening under the Trump admin. All while unemployment was abruptly cut.



Blue collar conservatives voted this grifter into office to fleece the American taxpayer (that’s you)

What was the first red flag….hmmm

 
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Phenomenally Frantastic said:
Fed finds 75% of $800 billion Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) didn't reach workers. More than 90% of the PPP loans were forgiven, going to the ultra-wealthy. A known scam as it was happening under the Trump admin. All while unemployment was abruptly cut.

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Blue collar conservatives voted this grifter into office to fleece the American taxpayer (that’s you)

What was the first red flag….hmmm

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I agree with the Tweet. I knew he would grift as soon as Trump said that.
 
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Oh and Pepsi…

PPP "Biggest Fraud in a Generation"

Many who participated in what prosecutors are calling the largest fraud in U.S. history — the theft of hundreds of billions of dollars in taxpayer money intended to help those harmed by the coronavirus pandemic — couldn’t resist purchasing luxury automobiles. Also mansions, private jet flights...
iowa.forums.rivals.com iowa.forums.rivals.com
 
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The 3 stimulus payments were a bunch of bull crap too. I know so many who lost not a dime due to COVID getting the free government money for no reason at all. It was like no effort was made how to funnel the money to people and businesses truly in need. They did not get enough, many had a hard time and a bunch of small business like restaurants went under.

To be clear, I blame both parties on it. Just a low effort attempt at throwing money to try to help economy and stuff pockets of friends.
 
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Wow. Brandon dropped the ball here. Never would have happened under trump. It’s like testing, if you test, you get more cases. Better off not testing and not looking for the fraud.

/s
 
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BanjoSaysWoof said:
Wow. Brandon dropped the ball here. Never would have happened under trump. It’s like testing, if you test, you get more cases. Better off not testing and not looking for the fraud.

/s
Click to expand...
8aa94f809d420d4930aa2276aa8c7df5.jpg
 
noleclone2 said:
The 3 stimulus payments were a bunch of bull crap too. I know so many who lost not a dime due to COVID getting the free government money for no reason at all. It was like no effort was made how to funnel the money to people and businesses truly in need. They did not get enough, many had a hard time and a bunch of small business like restaurants went under.

To be clear, I blame both parties on it. Just a low effort attempt at throwing money to try to help economy and stuff pockets of friends.
Click to expand...
Afghanistan fraud…Iraq fraud…ppp fraud….unemployment fraud

Government oversight of spending sucks….
 
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Let's be clear about what happened here.

The PPP was designed so that businesses would maintain their payroll throughout the pandemic. The money went to the business as a loan - it was never intended to go to the workers - it just help make sure they got to keep their jobs. If the business was able to maintain their payroll, the "loan" was forgiven.

So, that was what was intended.

What happened is that "lots" of businesses (many, most? IDK) would have been able to manage through the pandemic without the PPP loan. They met the qualifications for forgiveness. Then the government made it tax-free.

So, "lots" of businesses got a tax-free windfall. It ended up in the owners or managements pocket. Maybe they decided to use the money to buy a Ferrari.

NONE of that is fraud. It was a poorly designed knee-jerk shotgun approach to the pandemic.

Now, if the business lied about maintaining their payroll, then THAT is fraud. And no one can know the amount of it without conducting a lot of audits.
 
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I know of a local business, dog daycare and boarding, which closed its doors early in the pandemic. Since people were staying home, they weren’t traveling or working many of the dogs stayed home, so they didn’t have enough business to keep open. All the workers were laid off. Then they got the PPP money and we’re able to reopen at half the capacity they had before, but at least those folks had a job.

Point is, for many it did what it was supposed to do
 
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Hawk_4shur said:
Let's be clear about what happened here.

The PPP was designed so that businesses would maintain their payroll throughout the pandemic. The money went to the business as a loan - it was never intended to go to the workers - it just help make sure they got to keep their jobs. If the business was able to maintain their payroll, the "loan" was forgiven.

So, that was what was intended.

What happened is that "lots" of businesses (many, most? IDK) would have been able to manage through the pandemic without the PPP loan. They met the qualifications for forgiveness. Then the government made it tax-free.

So, "lots" of businesses got a tax-free windfall. It ended up in the owners or managements pocket. Maybe they decided to use the money to buy a Ferrari.

NONE of that is fraud. It was a poorly designed knee-jerk shotgun approach to the pandemic.

Now, if the business lied about maintaining their payroll, then THAT is fraud. And no one can know the amount of it without conducting a lot of audits.
Click to expand...
Well said. The program was free money for businesses that were not impacted by stay at home...i.e. lawyers, accountants, financial advisors, etc., etc., etc. My biggest issue with R's and conservatives is their willingness to put their hands out for any free money they can get from the taxpayers. They complain about every entitlement received by others, but justify taking them any chance they get. Every small business owner I know took the money whether they suffered revenue declines during Covid or not.

There are no more Jimmy Braddock's ?
 
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Phenomenally Frantastic said:
How do American conservatives feel about Trump and his friends stealing from conservatives? Do they even care?
Click to expand...
The bill passed the Senate by voice vote on April 21, 2020. The bill passed the House of Representatives by a vote of 388–5 on April 23. The five House "no" votes were four right-wing Republicans (Thomas Massie, Andy Biggs, Ken Buck, and Jody Hice) and one left-wing Democrat (Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez).
 
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Hawk_4shur said:
Let's be clear about what happened here.

The PPP was designed so that businesses would maintain their payroll throughout the pandemic. The money went to the business as a loan - it was never intended to go to the workers - it just help make sure they got to keep their jobs. If the business was able to maintain their payroll, the "loan" was forgiven.

So, that was what was intended.

What happened is that "lots" of businesses (many, most? IDK) would have been able to manage through the pandemic without the PPP loan. They met the qualifications for forgiveness. Then the government made it tax-free.

So, "lots" of businesses got a tax-free windfall. It ended up in the owners or managements pocket. Maybe they decided to use the money to buy a Ferrari.

NONE of that is fraud. It was a poorly designed knee-jerk shotgun approach to the pandemic.

Now, if the business lied about maintaining their payroll, then THAT is fraud. And no one can know the amount of it without conducting a lot of audits.
Click to expand...
It's almost like we should do pre pandemic planning to address what we would do in situations like this. How will we help and target those businesses and individuals in need?

Hmm ... planning ... being prepared ... NOT the American way.
 
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noleclone2 said:
The 3 stimulus payments were a bunch of bull crap too. I know so many who lost not a dime due to COVID getting the free government money for no reason at all. It was like no effort was made how to funnel the money to people and businesses truly in need. They did not get enough, many had a hard time and a bunch of small business like restaurants went under.

To be clear, I blame both parties on it. Just a low effort attempt at throwing money to try to help economy and stuff pockets of friends.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Frustrating to know it was going on but the train kept rolling. So many people took advantage and saddled future generations with loads of debt.
 
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srams21 said:
It's almost like we should do pre pandemic planning to address what we would do in situations like this. How will we help and target those businesses and individuals in need?

Hmm ... planning ... being prepared ... NOT the American way.
Click to expand...
We need a independent commission to take a deep dive into our response and come up with some non political recommendations.

I don’t trust any of our government agencies to do that without a heavy dose of covering their asses. And politics

Mistakes made across the spectrum and our response was WAY too politicized
 
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theiacowtipper said:
I know of a local business, dog daycare and boarding, which closed its doors early in the pandemic. Since people were staying home, they weren’t traveling or working many of the dogs stayed home, so they didn’t have enough business to keep open. All the workers were laid off. Then they got the PPP money and we’re able to reopen at half the capacity they had before, but at least those folks had a job.

Point is, for many it did what it was supposed to do
Click to expand...
It could have helped even more if Mnuchin hadn’t stolen so much of it for wealthy buddies.
 
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AreWeCross said:
Well said. The program was free money for businesses that were not impacted by stay at home...i.e. lawyers, accountants, financial advisors, etc., etc., etc. My biggest issue with R's and conservatives is their willingness to put their hands out for any free money they can get from the taxpayers. They complain about every entitlement received by others, but justify taking them any chance they get. Every small business owner I know took the money whether they suffered revenue declines during Covid or not.

There are no more Jimmy Braddock's ?
Click to expand...
LOL! You've clearly got a lot of "big issues". We can start with being certifiably insane and trickle down from there. Other than that everything you said is Spot On. LOL!
 
Hawk_4shur said:
Let's be clear about what happened here.

The PPP was designed so that businesses would maintain their payroll throughout the pandemic. The money went to the business as a loan - it was never intended to go to the workers - it just help make sure they got to keep their jobs. If the business was able to maintain their payroll, the "loan" was forgiven.

So, that was what was intended.

What happened is that "lots" of businesses (many, most? IDK) would have been able to manage through the pandemic without the PPP loan. They met the qualifications for forgiveness. Then the government made it tax-free.

So, "lots" of businesses got a tax-free windfall. It ended up in the owners or managements pocket. Maybe they decided to use the money to buy a Ferrari.

NONE of that is fraud. It was a poorly designed knee-jerk shotgun approach to the pandemic.

Now, if the business lied about maintaining their payroll, then THAT is fraud. And no one can know the amount of it without conducting a lot of audits.
Click to expand...

The government can easily see if payrolls went down by looking at payroll tax payments.
 
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23 so far said:
LOL! You've clearly got a lot of "big issues". We can start with being certifiably insane and trickle down from there. Other than that everything you said is Spot On. LOL!
Click to expand...
Defend your position. I am a conservative. Tell me what part of this makes me insane and how it suggests I have "big issues".
 
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The Tradition said:
No wonder we have inflation with all that government money sloshing around...
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The program was poorly conceived and executed. Congress and Trump panicked, felt they had to do something fast to save the economy from a recession. I'm sure many jobs were saved by the program, but I feel like it was mainly just a tremendous business windfall.
 
I knew of several small businesses that got funds but their employees chose to stay home and collect unemployment rather than work. The restaurant industry had a huge problem with this.

My ex wife had 5 employees for her company. I know she got funds but only 1 came back to work
 
Hawk_4shur said:
I'm not entirely sure how easy that would be. For one business, sure. For a million businesses? IDK.
Click to expand...

It wouldn't be complicated, since # of employees was on the application submitted by each business. It's a matter of hardware to process the query. Nobody is going to go business by business

Edit - here's the application. Every one of those fields is sitting in a database somewhere likely waiting for the dust to settle - https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/f... and Instructions -- 3508 (7.30.2021)-508.pdf
 
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