- Hawks are banged up. I don't blame TNT for sitting them. A bit surprised by how many people here are upset by that.
- We didn't wrestle badly. Aside from Kem, things went as expected.
- A healthy Spencer Lee and the Hawks threepeat as B1G champs, even with all the other injuries.
- I've never been a fan of the conservative, no-first-period-shot styles of several of our guys, and this tourney was frustrating in the same way the rest of the season has been frustrating. A few of our guys, I could've gone out for coffee and come back with 1 minute left and told you exactly what the score would be. That's not exciting wrestling. Gable always talked about putting on a show. Our show's a bit dull at several weights. I put that on the coaches--this is your product.
- Hoping for the best at NCAAs. Not looking great at this point, but it ain't over.
- Come back soon, Spencer Lee.
Final B1G thoughts?
- Thread starter TarpHawk
- Start date
I think those that are upset including me are more frustrated with the current image of the program. This tournament didn't do Iowa any favors. In 2 weeks we will all just hope everyone is healthy.
When I take my Iowa hat off as a big wrestling fan I don't like the MFF's. It's a bad look for a sport that is really struggling to expand and gain footholds in new territory.
Wrestling is a sport for the diehards and isn't making things appealing to the casual fans.
Stalling your ass off and taking next to no shots is also a big problem for wrestling right now. The B1G's had a lot of bad boring matches at the top level.
When I take my Iowa hat off as a big wrestling fan I don't like the MFF's. It's a bad look for a sport that is really struggling to expand and gain footholds in new territory.
Wrestling is a sport for the diehards and isn't making things appealing to the casual fans.
Stalling your ass off and taking next to no shots is also a big problem for wrestling right now. The B1G's had a lot of bad boring matches at the top level.
Agree with everything you said. I’ll add one bullet
• Get a new strength training coach. I get injuries happen, but not at this rate. Since the new coach got there in I think August you have Ayala with shoulder, Eierman with a hand and now knee, Murin with elbow or shoulder, Kemerer with shoulder, Brands with shoulder, Warner tweaked knee first tournament of year, and now Cass tweaked his knee. I’m sure there are others.
I haven’t enjoyed the product on the mat this year as a whole. I think schematically folkstyle is broken in college. But thank you to every wrestler that toes the line for the Iowa Hawkeyes. I can’t imagine the grind it takes to wrestle D1, let alone with some of the injuries we’ve witnessed this year. This senior class was special for Iowa, and lets hope they all accomplish their dreams in two weeks.
I agree with this. I have family that are PT's and a good friend that spent 20 years in Sports Medicine. Every one of them said Iowa's injuries draw many questions about their training. In sports you need to strengthen to the max the muscles and joints that are most impacted in your sport to prevent injury. There seems to be something off with Iowa. This many injuries to a team brings serious questions in any sport even if it is just bad luck.
With JE, Im surprised he hasnt been injured alot more. He flies around like Gumby in his matches, thats his style.
I agree. But I think it adds more to my point about a new ST coach. He has always wrestled with rubber knees and been fine. JE hasn’t changed, so what has? The ST coach.
Guys are hurt/injured, it’s wrestling it happens. However it’s also a theme for the Brands brothers. Can they really be doing something much different than the Penn states and Michigans?
Iowa might want to look into the scheduling smarter. Month prior to big tens they wrestled both okie state and Nebraska. Same time frame Penn state wrestled Rider.
Iowa might want to look into the scheduling smarter. Month prior to big tens they wrestled both okie state and Nebraska. Same time frame Penn state wrestled Rider.
I’ll give you okie state. But Iowa can’t control when they wrestle the conference meets.
It's fair to review and assess, but my guess is a huge portion is just random bad luck. Wrestling is a tough sport. Spencer had knee problems before Iowa, Desanto, Murin, Young, Warner, and Cass have had few injuries after several years of grind, Kem and Bull have had a mix but I think more good times than bad, and so on. And as somebody said, amazing Eierman hasn't had more injuries. Look at NFL teams - one year few problems, next year alot. There may be some smoke here, but I'm not seeing a fire. Certainly worth some careful review though.
I was just discussing this with my son earlier. I have noticed during football games Iowa players seem to have less injuries than their opponents. I believe superior strength and conditioning is the reason why.
This has been talked about several times before. I have chimed in on it a few times already. EVERYTHING I have seen with their strength training(which is very limited as it is hard to find) is off! I am not 100% sure what in GODS name their strength program even is??? Maybe those closer to the program can find more?
This is not only an IOWA problem. Most college programs I have seen are not very good. A lot of times they are run by a former football player who happens to be a big dude. This does NOT qualify him in itself as a strength coach.
They have a new facility coming. It will be very interesting to me to see what, if anything, as far as state of the art training stuff is brought in?
Lastly, I would love to know if they are doing any tests for over-training?
They need to look at EVERYTHING they are doing!!! Scheduling certainly is a factor. Yearly, they are going to have one of the toughest schedules in Wrestling. Comes with the territory, but it could help to make some tweaks here and there. Many early season matches for example against lesser opponents maybe could be split squad. Having 1/2 the starts going a match, with back ups getting the rest. Have very limited stuff till after the new year, might help?
Practices, rest, prehab, conditioning, strength training, nutrition..... everything has to be looked at.
This is F A R beyond random at this point! I can not name even one of our top guys going back ten or more years who hasn't been banged up!?!?!? Yes injuries are part of the sport, but we are dealing with what seems like 3-4X more then any other program.
i think TnT really need to reevaluate some of their training methods. We’ve struggled with injury a lot this year and a lot of that has to do with it being an old team of mostly 5th and 6th year guys.
But that’s not a write off. It’s just an intensification of a trend of hawkeyes wearing down over their 5 years here. some of its luck but i think something needs to change.
But that’s not a write off. It’s just an intensification of a trend of hawkeyes wearing down over their 5 years here. some of its luck but i think something needs to change.
As much as I want it, there's nothing that can be done to make these guys healthy in 11 days.
This is the part I will always disagree with. It's not like the 6th year+ plus guys in the HWC are just doomed for injury because of their age.
Let's think about the average age of an Olympic medalist. They're older than our wrestlers.
This isn't about age. Is true freshman Ayala just too old and that's why his shoulder is gone? Was Kem just too old when tore his labrum over 3 years ago? Is Cass just too old and that's why he MFF'd? Was Spencer just too old by the time he blew his ACL his senior year in high school, or when he blew the first one in college 3 years ago?
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It absolutely better be something that TNT are looking into and reviewing following the season.
Might find that it's mostly bad luck, but it's impossible to ignore the volume of injuries.
Whatever edge you can legally/morally gain in keeping guys healthy and at peak performance is worth it.
Might find that it's mostly bad luck, but it's impossible to ignore the volume of injuries.
Whatever edge you can legally/morally gain in keeping guys healthy and at peak performance is worth it.
My final thoughts? It's the most bizarre year I've ever watched in college wrestling in over 40 years.
If you would have told me we would have had one B1G champ last summer and finish 3rd I would have been incredulous.
If you would have told me last October that we would have a whopping 10 significant injuries that decimated our chances of a title I would have sat in the corner sucking my thumb.
If you would have told me we would have had one B1G champ last summer and finish 3rd I would have been incredulous.
If you would have told me last October that we would have a whopping 10 significant injuries that decimated our chances of a title I would have sat in the corner sucking my thumb.
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You must be new to Iowa football then or you completely forgot a stretch where we had a demon who feasted on Iowa RBs.
Injuries happen. Could be training, could be bad luck, could be be that AIRBHG has switched to wrestlers.
I don't know what it is but it sucks for the wrestlers first foremost to a lesser extent fans.
I think we need to be honest here and admit it’s a little bit of both. Both some bad luck and tainted water(training).
Seems like Iowa guys are always banged up and completely broken by the time they’re seniors. There’s been numerous examples of great Iowa wrestlers over the last decade who have literally limped to the podium by their senior year.
We’re not talking about old men here either. We’re talking about 23-24 year old young men coming into the prime of their adult lives. You should be at your healthiest and best by the time your a senior, not run down where you’re relying on grit and toughness to get by.
Now I truly don’t know what it’s like to grind through 5 years of collegiate wrestling. There are probably many here that have. Who really knows what the answer is to these health issues, but it needs to be looked at long and hard.
You can’t just sit here and say “well that’s wrestling” when there’s been so many guys constantly banged up and injured.
My two cents.
Seems like Iowa guys are always banged up and completely broken by the time they’re seniors. There’s been numerous examples of great Iowa wrestlers over the last decade who have literally limped to the podium by their senior year.
We’re not talking about old men here either. We’re talking about 23-24 year old young men coming into the prime of their adult lives. You should be at your healthiest and best by the time your a senior, not run down where you’re relying on grit and toughness to get by.
Now I truly don’t know what it’s like to grind through 5 years of collegiate wrestling. There are probably many here that have. Who really knows what the answer is to these health issues, but it needs to be looked at long and hard.
You can’t just sit here and say “well that’s wrestling” when there’s been so many guys constantly banged up and injured.
My two cents.
1. Agree unless TnT are the ones injuring wrestlers (please don't take that literally trolls)
2. Some of our guys wrestled poorly, specifically our 84 and 97. Abe beat Braunagel and then proceeded to crap the bed while Braun steamed his way to 3rd
place. Warner's weekend could have been scripted. Disappointing for sure. Wrestle to win!
3. A healthy Kem and we win. A healthy Lee and Kem and we dust the field.
4. Totally agree! To many periods of inactivity and wasting time. Very boring and very predictable.
5. Amazing we were in the running for a ship this weekend given our health. It's going to take a tremendous amount of guts and luck to repeat a top 3 finish in 2 weeks but if anyone can do it it's this group.
This year likely won't finish like we hoped when they all committed to coming back but there's still goals that can be reached.
Go Hawks!
Let’s not forget the style of wrestling. Joints on knees and ankles are especially at risk. You can also count on being kicked in the face.
The refs this weekend absolutely swallowed their whistles on stalling and we’re frequently out of position to call Potential Dangerous.
if wrestlers pull against joints to create Potentially Dangerous it needs to be penalized.
To those who think it would give officials to much authority, then what’s the solution.
The refs this weekend absolutely swallowed their whistles on stalling and we’re frequently out of position to call Potential Dangerous.
if wrestlers pull against joints to create Potentially Dangerous it needs to be penalized.
To those who think it would give officials to much authority, then what’s the solution.
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Unpopular opinion, but I think the only way to help improve the awkward positions on joints and ankles is to switch to a more freestyle approach, but that’s not happening. Jordan Burroughs even tweeted over the weekend about his fear for injury during every scramble because of folkstyle. Also unpopular opinion, but I wouldn’t blame Spencer Lee one bit if he was done with folkstyle.
Hasn't Iowa always added "even with a broken leg!" While the team's running around like meatheads?
You wouldn’t believe the amount of time and money penn state puts into nutrition and monitoring their wrestlers bodies. I’m sure Iowa spends a pretty penny but according to a family member I despise (but who would also know after all the money he donates and access he has) penn state has a few experts on the payroll and take it very seriously. Every meal, amount of sleep, physical monitors while training, oxygen/oxygen deprivation cutting edge shite with the finest “treigning labs” and Carl’s magic witch doctor (who Gilman had heal old emotional wounds that in turn healed his ankle…). You can’t make this stuff up. Carl will send you to miss Cleo in the middle of the woods or some garage shelling out “nuts” and steroids just to give you an edge. Any edge. And then say “at the end of the day, you have to remember it’s just wrestling guys.” Yeah, ok. That guy is truly insane. And you have psu fans talking about Terry’s stare…FFS.
It's more this . S&C will only do so much, in a sport like wrestling where strength and flexibility both matter and joints get put in compromising positions it'll happen.
One thing that came to mind for me while following the tournament to completion is Iowa qualified 10 wrestlers for NCAAS. PSU and Michigan only qualified 9. Edsel DNP for PSU and Storr finished 8th with their being only 7 qualifiers at the weight. I still think Iowa can get 8-9 guys on the podium. Hopefully guys can get healthy in a week and a half
So all I keep hearing about is all the guys that have been banged up limping to the podium, but what about all the guys that have made it through these terrible training methods without any issues? (There's been plenty over the last decade who have been just fine).
To me I think it boils down to how many more matches kids are wrestling before they even get to college, and the evolution of scrambling.
That being said, it's definitely worth the coaches looking into their training methods and seeing if there's some tweaks they could/should make, which obviously they do every off-season and you're a fool if you think otherwise.
I agree they seem to be wrestling way more matched before college. A lot of kids are training year around from a young age. The amount of college matches has plummeted from where it used to be.
You know, this is the sort of thing you just don't say until the season is over.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
This. In folkstyle once an opponent is in deep on the legs, wrestlers roll and grab one of their opponent's legs to create a scramble and make it a 50-50 position. That position is terrible for joints and ligaments. Some guys are incredible in that position (Lee, Eireman, etc.), but they're playing with fire every single time risking serious injury.
Spencer Lee isn't bypassing Folkstyle when he has a chance to do something few ever accomplish, or the Team aspect of his participation.
I prefer Folkstyle by a wide margin, but agree that Freestyle would be easier on some joints due to the exposure risk. That said, guys get hurt wrestling Freestyle too, and I absolutely abhore the leg lace rolls that end a match in 10 seconds. That part is ridiculous.
Relative to Iowa injuries, I'm a firm believer that Iowa University has all the tools at it's disposal to limit the injury carnage, and yet guys still get injured. Tom and Terry Brands have been in this game a LONG time, I'm confident they're not risking their Wrestler's health by putting them through things that would inherently increase their odds of getting injured. They need all hands on deck and nobody knows that better than them.
Shit happens and you deal with it as best you can.
If you subtract Ayala's 5.5 and add 19 for Lee (Champ with no bonus, same as Marineli), Iowa ties for win. Spencer Lee was the difference in us losing this weekend. We knew that all along. You don't lose a multi time Hodge winner in a close team race and not fall off a bit.
People are going to have to wrestle ahead of seed in Detriot to win. No way around it. Penn State is going to have 4-5 finalists. Hawks will need everyone on their game, and to have their best tournament in years.
People are going to have to wrestle ahead of seed in Detriot to win. No way around it. Penn State is going to have 4-5 finalists. Hawks will need everyone on their game, and to have their best tournament in years.
