Has anyone heard how he is progressing? I thought him and Ellingson would be splitting minutes but Ellingson has taken all of them. I would like to see Fleming a little bit just to get someone new in there that teams don't have a lot of film on. I know he may not be ready, but is it that much of a risk to give him some of Ellingson's minutes?
Fleming
- Thread starter hawkeye_fan321
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Ellingson and him need to transfer, I'm sorry but being blunt here. 1 scholly for Baer and another for possibly a JUCO PG.
My eye balls were not even close to impressed in games early on, looked pretty rough, very poor handling of ball.
Fleming had quite a few people impressed last summer or even before. I was one of them. But he obviously hasn't earned minutes away from Ellingson. IMO Andrew tried to do a little too much early on, stunk on defense, and wasn't getting the idea of what FIVE guys are going to do together on the court. Later, he seemed to have settled down and was playing safe, but still struggling.
I'm not going to give up on him, or any Hawkeye. Fleming will either earn minutes down the road, or be a bench player, or transfer. We'll see.
I'm not going to give up on him, or any Hawkeye. Fleming will either earn minutes down the road, or be a bench player, or transfer. We'll see.
Wow, Fleming's only a true freshman. At least give him another year before throwing him under the bus. Not many college players will impress the fan base their freshman year.
I am just being blunt as of now I'm not seeing it. I want Baer to be schollied without some movement it won't happen. He could barely dribble early on in season, just was eye opening.
Pretty solid assessment IMO. I have said this before, Some kids the light goes on right away, Some not so quick, I have no idea how Fleming will progress, I just really do believe it's far too soon to give up on the kid.
Cool I hear ya, we just have a scholly issue. Baer is stinking it up as of late but needs to be in scholly and we need guard experience.
I was also impressed with him before the season and am hoping he sticks wit Iowa and battles for minutes next year. Is there anyone with inside information on how he and Ellingson compare in practice/why Fleming isn't getting some of those minutes.
What did he show in a game? I was high on him last year but concerning now.
Patience. I'm sure Baer isn't getting upset over it. He will get a scholly at some point. Hell, I'd pay my own way if I could be on the team and get the playing time he gets.
We have a ton of dudes next year, young dudes, agree. And studs locked in for 2017/2018, finish strong Hawks!
This. Only because Baer proven he can play at this level and Iowa desperately needs a PG next year. Use two scholarships on guys who are proven to contribute NOW rather than HOPE Ellingson and Fleming give you something 2-3 years from now.
I know, I know. He has looked AWFUL, White team Tom Davis awful, I know not much to base on but I am not seeing it. I trust Fran and the process just discussing on a message board.
Let's see ... Peter Jok was a wasted scholly at one point too. Woodbury was a bust. 
The Hawks aren't going to win with Freshman. They will have some bumps next year with a lot of sophs. It doesn't bother me that we have freshman not getting minutes. It allows them to watch and learn, get their feet under them in the classroom, etc.
Fran is not perfect, but so far one of his strengths has been getting players that improve and stick with the program. Let's see how they develop.
The Hawks aren't going to win with Freshman. They will have some bumps next year with a lot of sophs. It doesn't bother me that we have freshman not getting minutes. It allows them to watch and learn, get their feet under them in the classroom, etc.
Fran is not perfect, but so far one of his strengths has been getting players that improve and stick with the program. Let's see how they develop.
Who are these studs you speak of? cook maybe, but I am not seeing Iowa showing up on lists of top 100 kids. If you look at Fran's last couple of recruiting classes, there is not much. Uhl and Ellingson are showing lots of weakness and Ellingson is clearly not B1G material. Our current Freshman are still under big debate as two had to redshirt from a numbers game, two cant find any playing time and Wagner appears to have significant upside, I don't see Fran as developing big men.
Next years class has Cook and the a bunch of guys from Iowa and it not like we took these guys away from Msu, Kansas, Kentucky, etc. Heck, Ferentz doesn't get many of the studs but he is against the Alabama on some and he can develop players, think Clark, Sanders,greenway and a bunch of OL. Fran needs to step it up in recruiting and on the bench. Being better than Lick has passed as these are all his kids now
No question Fleming and Ellingson have struggled, we can all see that, but Peter Jok was awful as a Freshman too. Give them time and it will all sort out. We are going to have Fleming, Ellingson, Moss, Williams, Hutton & Bohannon all fight ing for guard minutes next year. Some will sink and some will rise, we just don't know who.
Tyler Ulis will disagree. Fran was on him and if it hadn't been a late push by Kentucky he would be at Iowa. Fran put in a lot effort on him and lost. Fran was relentless to get Woody and Gessell here.
He was also watching the Swaninigan kid from PU last year. Fran spots the talent and works to get it, but you have to be a "blue" blood to get them. Lets face it, Iowa has not screamed a top team in recent year (outside of the past 3 years). The blue bloods have tons of success and are teams where these kids can come in and play right away.
Look at the Dukes, Kentuckys, Kansas's and other top programs. They don't rebuild, they re-load with 3 or 4 of the top kids in the nation. Jesus look at Indiana they have had a top 30 class in the past 5 years and look at their results. Their max potential is the sweet 16 every year. But they have the "tradition" and thats why they get the players they get.
Could playing at Oak Hill actually have hurt him, and created some bad habits? Seems to me he doesn't really want to play defense (in all fairness most freshman don't), and all he wants to do is launch shots or drive to the hoop every time he touches the ball. I think he would steal Ellington's minutes if he played a little harder on defense and realized his role on offense.
And then when they do improve, we can complain that they should have played more as Freshmen, and that the coaches don't play the best players.
I guess Uthoff fell into Fran's lap, but I would say Uhl has potential, Aaron white before was a great find, Jok was a home run after incubation period.
I think Fran has had pretty good eye on recruiting trail but is not a good closer. I do think the recent class has potential. Wagner has a lot of potential. CW should have played more. Moss should have played, given we have zero guard bench right now.
My problem with Ogelsby, Ellingson, Flemming type players is they lack the athleticism and all around guard skills (handles, dribble drive) to compete. I think lack of athleticism contributes to the yips these guys show in not being able to shoot the 3ball at college level...even though they take open shots, they are afraid of athletes blocking their shots.
How many times does this have to be debunked? Ulis said he would have went to Sparty.
Your posting just doesn't cut it. I don 't think you'll ever cut it. You're just using space. Maybe you should transfer to the Grandview board.
D1 is brutal.
Fleming was named Tennessee Player of the Year his junior year. Also, two-time All-State player and three times named to the All-Tournament team after leading his team to 3 consecutive state titles. He was also named the Tourney MVP. Fleming was then invited to play for the prestigious Oak Hill Academy his senior season.
Besides Iowa, Fleming held scholarship offers from Memphis, Auburn, Florida, Nebraska, UNLV and others.
Can we dispense with this ridiculous idea that he cannot dribble a basketball or, by way of implication, that he is now a bust?
Fleming joined a senior dominated Iowa team. Playing behind Clemmons and Jok meant that it was going to be a tough task to get minutes as a freshman from the onset. To say he has played sparingly is an understatement. And now, suddenly, because he didn't set the world on fire after a few minutes of late game action he needs to transfer?
Yes, Fleming has deficiencies. If you followed his interviews last summer you would know that he has admitted that he needs to work to improve parts of his game - especially defense and ball handling.
Personally, I think Oak Hill may have stunted his non-shooting skill development a bit even though he gained some great experience playing for a nationally ranked team. If you are invited to Oak Hill you accept, period. Looking forward to seeing him on the court next year.
Besides Iowa, Fleming held scholarship offers from Memphis, Auburn, Florida, Nebraska, UNLV and others.
Can we dispense with this ridiculous idea that he cannot dribble a basketball or, by way of implication, that he is now a bust?
Fleming joined a senior dominated Iowa team. Playing behind Clemmons and Jok meant that it was going to be a tough task to get minutes as a freshman from the onset. To say he has played sparingly is an understatement. And now, suddenly, because he didn't set the world on fire after a few minutes of late game action he needs to transfer?
Yes, Fleming has deficiencies. If you followed his interviews last summer you would know that he has admitted that he needs to work to improve parts of his game - especially defense and ball handling.
Personally, I think Oak Hill may have stunted his non-shooting skill development a bit even though he gained some great experience playing for a nationally ranked team. If you are invited to Oak Hill you accept, period. Looking forward to seeing him on the court next year.
An outsiders perspective, Mad Fran does an excellent job of finding the over looked talent. His problem is the same as many coaches with this trait, getting them to sign with you after they blow up. Ullis was going to MSU, he stated it, Jok was a top 15 recruit as a sophomore, then blew out a knee, and everyone backed off. ISU stopped recruiting him after contact in a dead period, so Jok really fell into to Iowa's lap. He may have gone there anyway, it sure did not hurt that Horner was his high school coach.
Everyone of the scholarship players looks great on film, most were the best player on their team and the only put the highlights on the film that you and I look at. Its just hard to look at film and say the kid is a stud, unless he truly is a top 50 player.
Everyone of the scholarship players looks great on film, most were the best player on their team and the only put the highlights on the film that you and I look at. Its just hard to look at film and say the kid is a stud, unless he truly is a top 50 player.
I am not giving up on Fleming right now. Yes, his defensive awareness seems to be poor and underdeveloped but if he can get some confidence back in his shooting stroke, he has a chance to shine and really become a major contributor. However, Ellingson is a different story. He seems to be disengaging from fight even before he hits the floor. No scrappiness to chase down loose balls, defensive lapses and not looking for his shot, force me to question his value to this program. As bad that Bawinkle kid that Lickliter brought in from WV.
I may be in the minority here but I cannot give a scholarship to Baer just yet. Baer has the heart of Eric May, the hustle of Ryan Bowen but the athletic ceiling of Zach McCabe. Baer will never or should never be a STARTER at Iowa with this talent level.He is not Jess Settles or Doug McDermott athletic scholarship level. Baer is going to be a career "sixth man" who has some good moments and is a crowd pleaser. Baer may have a couple of 15+ point games that will thrill the Iowa fans but he will never be the top scorer unless he develops into a 3 point threat that can open a can of whoop @$$ on any given night.
The jury is still out if CW can become a PG at the college level after playing SG in HS ( at the lower tier level of ILHS BB). If CW cannot sucessfully transition, then Iowa needs another PG to go with Bohannon become JB is smaller than MG and he will get exposed quickly in the B1G.
I may be in the minority here but I cannot give a scholarship to Baer just yet. Baer has the heart of Eric May, the hustle of Ryan Bowen but the athletic ceiling of Zach McCabe. Baer will never or should never be a STARTER at Iowa with this talent level.He is not Jess Settles or Doug McDermott athletic scholarship level. Baer is going to be a career "sixth man" who has some good moments and is a crowd pleaser. Baer may have a couple of 15+ point games that will thrill the Iowa fans but he will never be the top scorer unless he develops into a 3 point threat that can open a can of whoop @$$ on any given night.
The jury is still out if CW can become a PG at the college level after playing SG in HS ( at the lower tier level of ILHS BB). If CW cannot sucessfully transition, then Iowa needs another PG to go with Bohannon become JB is smaller than MG and he will get exposed quickly in the B1G.
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I think this is the problem sometimes with us as fans when it comes to PTL in basketball and the Spring Game in football. Often times (espcially with PTL) we become overly impressed with players because they tore it up against sub par opponents in PTL and overly impressed with one performance in the Spring Game. In football it is tough because we see very limited exposure and sometimes we forget the Spring Game is about 1% of the total picture. Just my 2 cents because I have not be impressed at all with Fleming's ability thus far. Not saying he should lose his scholarship by all means but he has a long ways to go IMO
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