Fran and Redshirts

[Auger]

We are starting to see Fran RS more of his FR as he continues to build his program. I have always thought he should take the Wisconsin approach and RS most of them so they are in his system for 5 years. I think it will pay out in the end. I almost wish Fran would have gambled earlier in his career and RS guys like Gabe, Clemmons and even Uhl but who knew right. (Maybe Clemmons would have transfered) Having some of those types of players as 5th year SR's sometimes is the difference between a team that makes the NCAA tourny and a team that goes to the Sweet 16 and beyond. Clemmons next year running the point would keep the momentum going in Frans program much like having Gabe this year could make this team a legit National Champion Contender even though they kind of already are somewhat.

That said I think now that Fran is RS more guys and may continue that trend I think it will add longevity to Iowa being a top 5 team in the B1G and a top 25 team in the NCAA. I think Iowa can replace Wisconsin in the B1G in what Wisconsin has done in the Bo Ryan era.

 

[myteamcanbeatupyourteam]

I get the redshirting Gabe comment and have even thought it myself. I'm not totally certain Gabe would have improved as much as he did by redshirting though. Nothing like actual game experience.

 

[wneff]

Bo Ryan is the only coach I know of that it did it successfully over time. My concern is that it may backfire with recruiting IF recruits are not told before they commit that red-shirting is a realistic possibility. Most 17-year olds are more concerned with next week than five years from now.

 

[revkev73]

Some players don't need to redshirt...those are the HS players we want more of...

 

[HawkAttackDial911]

I think redshirting Clemmons was a no go because we had only Marble and Gesell (another Freshman) who could run the point.

 

[Auger]

Bo Ryan is the only coach I know of that it did it successfully over time. My concern is that it may backfire with recruiting IF recruits are not told before they commit that red-shirting is a realistic possibility. Most 17-year olds are more concerned with next week than five years from now.

Why Bo had success with it though is because he was good at finding those good HS players that only had a couple D1 offers and turning them into great 4th and 5th year players. A lot of those types of players don't have much of a problem RS. Also the highly rated FR (top 150) he recruited often played as FR. I think you have to have a good balance of both. Guys like Williams and Wagner need the expereince this year because they are going to need to be ready for 20 + mins a game next year. Guys like Moss and Hutton won't be needed that much next year but could be really solid to great as 3rd, 4th and 5th year guys, but that 4th and 5th year will be key for a team like Iowa to have longevity.

 

[Auger]

Some players don't need to redshirt...those are the HS players we want more of...

We want more of them but to think Iowa is going to start landing 2-4 guys per class every year that are top 100 guys isnt realistic. Since it isnt realistic Iowa needs to find some guys that can play just as well as some of the top players on the top teams in the country as 4th and 5th year players.

 

[revkev73]

Concur 100% Auger...

Having the stability of some guys, the core, who can and are willing to stay for a few years, college kids...mixed in with the one or two NBA type talents...who are also team players is a nice goal, and winning goal for the non-Dukes, KYs of the world.

 

[DanL53]

Coach McCaffery assesses every player, every situation, as best as he can every year. This year we happened to have fourteen players counting Baer but not the other walkons. Fran knew he couldn't play all fourteen and approached Moss first, who accepted the idea of a redshirt. Later Hutton also accepted the idea of a redshirt.

As long as a player isn't going to see many minutes, and is outside that eleven or twelve player bench? As long as that player agrees? McCaffery is likely to redshirt. But I wouldn't say it's policy.

 

[revkev73]

Chemistry, and team cohesiveness are always at risk when there is an "NBA Talent" on the ship...but having a guy who can beat someone off the dribble consistently is a great asset to have...elite. I am sure Fran works on it every day...

 

[BGHAWK]

I think it's entirely possible for Iowa to start landing at least 2 top 100 players every year. Maybe not 2-4, but maybe 2. Success breeds success.

 

[revkev73]

If Kansas can do it...Iowa can do it...

 

[SDHawkDoc]

Iowa's not going to be kentucky or duke. That is, they won't have a bunch of one and dones circulating through the program.
If they could just occasionally land one of those guys, to go with a core of players that progress through the program and actually get their degrees, that would be a nice mix.

 

[icantfindausernamethatisntused]

It's not like Fran hasn't redshirted players before. Both Ingram and Meyer eventually transferred. I think Bo was smart to redshirt Uthoff (and we were forced to do so too because of transfer rules) as the college game can often be more difficult for players used to playing the 4 or 5 position.

Ellingson and Baer look to be good contributors after redshirting as well, but Ellingson did so because of injury and Baer was a walk-on.

Unless you have an abnormally large class, it is not common to redshirt players in basketball. There are many freshmen each year that are fully capable of contributing right away.

 

[DenverTurtle]

I think redshirting Clemmons was a no go because we had only Marble and Gesell (another Freshman) who could run the point.

I agree. Plus, even though Gessel was more highly touted, nobody knew that Gessel would for sure be the better PG and player than Clemmons.

 

[2432Hawk]

Gabe was never redshirting. He was 76 years old when he graduated... ok, only 23 but his choice was NOT to redshirt.

 

[RocknRollface]

I think redshirting Clemmons was a no go because we had only Marble and Gesell (another Freshman) who could run the point.

Clemmons started at least half the games as a freshman. He was not an option to redshirt.

Gabe absolutely should have red shirted. His first year accomplished next to nothing.

 

[hawknut]

If coach doesn't think you will play much, why not redshirt? Especially as a big man. You will still be doing scout team, etc, just like the 12th man not red shirting. You get a full extra year verses some mop up minutes.

 

[lovedwatchingLester]

I was not in favor of red shirting, however I've come around. I know Ellingson did so because of injury and Baer was a walk on, both benefited greatly it appears. I'm pretty sure both Moss and Hutton could have played this year spot minutes and learned while playing but I expect big contributions from them over the next few years due to being in the system, gaining strength and confidence knowing in practice they are competing with the B1G's best every day . I have a feeling that often in those practices they are winning individual battles which will bode well next year and for Hutton, Moss, and the Hawks for the next 4 years. Ahh what a difference from the Lick years. Things fir Fran seemed to work out very well.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

We are starting to see Fran RS more of his FR as he continues to build his program. I have always thought he should take the Wisconsin approach and RS most of them so they are in his system for 5 years. I think it will pay out in the end. I almost wish Fran would have gambled earlier in his career and RS guys like Gabe, Clemmons and even Uhl but who knew right. (Maybe Clemmons would have transfered) Having some of those types of players as 5th year SR's sometimes is the difference between a team that makes the NCAA tourny and a team that goes to the Sweet 16 and beyond. Clemmons next year running the point would keep the momentum going in Frans program much like having Gabe this year could make this team a legit National Champion Contender even though they kind of already are somewhat.

That said I think now that Fran is RS more guys and may continue that trend I think it will add longevity to Iowa being a top 5 team in the B1G and a top 25 team in the NCAA. I think Iowa can replace Wisconsin in the B1G in what Wisconsin has done in the Bo Ryan era.

There is only benefit in redshirting, realistically. There is not one player that wouldn't be better with an extra year. As most basketball players physically peak at the ages of 25-27. Mentally you could probably add a few years. Each player/person is very much different. Some peak much sooner than others, some much later. And some players simply are not worth redshirting and having around another year.

That said, Having Gabe this year would have been outstanding! And Clemmons next would have been huge! Such is hindsight. Not to mention talking a young man into it... Maturity both physically and mentally takes time. But try telling that to an 18 year old...


In the future, it may be easier for Iowa. When meeting with a freshman to discuss them redshirting, and trying to sell that redshirt year, Fran simply needs to say - Jarrod Uthoff.

/meeting

 

[Titanhawk2]

I was not in favor of red shirting, however I've come around. I know Ellingson did so because of injury and Baer was a walk on, both benefited greatly it appears. I'm pretty sure both Moss and Hutton could have played this year spot minutes and learned while playing but I expect big contributions from them over the next few years due to being in the system, gaining strength and confidence knowing in practice they are competing with the B1G's best every day . I have a feeling that often in those practices they are winning individual battles which will bode well next year and for Hutton, Moss, and the Hawks for the next 4 years. Ahh what a difference from the Lick years. Things fir Fran seemed to work out very well.

Yes they would have taken minutes away (or seconds) from Williams and Flemming. Just face, there's no room to play 11-13 guys

 

[bigfische]

If coach doesn't think you will play much, why not redshirt? Especially as a big man. You will still be doing scout team, etc, just like the 12th man not red shirting. You get a full extra year verses some mop up minutes.

I said this on another thread, but if you redshirt a guy, you lose out on possibly bringing a better guy in 4 years later. Keeping a guy around for a 5th year clogs up a scholarship an extra year that could go to a better player.

 

[BBHawk]

I said this on another thread, but if you redshirt a guy, you lose out on possibly bringing a better guy in 4 years later. Keeping a guy around for a 5th year clogs up a scholarship an extra year that could go to a better player.

This could happen regardless. You also might have a kid that is all-world as a senior with a red shirt year, or one who plays one less year behind an upperclassman and thus gets more floor experience when he gets the chance to play. It all balances out. I prefer giving the kid an extra year to acclimate when it is needed. If the kid is ready (like a Tyler Cook), let him play. If he is not, give him the opportunity to grow and catch up.

 

[HawkLogic]

Gabe was never redshirting. He was 76 years old when he graduated... ok, only 23 but his choice was NOT to redshirt.

I thought he said something along the lines that he wouldn't have minded a RS and staying longer at Iowa because he wanted to prep more to represent Britain in Olympics. He only played a few minutes his Freshman year...that was year Fran should have RS'ed him given he didn't play him.

That said, I don't know the inside story, so if he didn't want to RS, it worked out. He is playing for money now and still has upside to develop his game.

 

[bigfische]

This could happen regardless. You also might have a kid that is all-world as a senior with a red shirt year, or one who plays one less year behind an upperclassman and thus gets more floor experience when he gets the chance to play. It all balances out. I prefer giving the kid an extra year to acclimate when it is needed. If the kid is ready (like a Tyler Cook), let him play. If he is not, give him the opportunity to grow and catch up.

I agree that it's not easy to see the future with these kids 4/5 years ahead of time, but I think we saw the more game ready player redshirted this year with Hutton and the less needed/skilled player allowed to not red shirt in Fleming. May have been more of a future team need type of move than skill based, but the logic remains the same.

 

[theIowaHawk]

I also think some of you forget ignore that there are two parties to the decision and I hope coach is listening to his players as well as advising.

Look at the Uthoff situation in Wisconsin.

 

[theIowaHawk]

#3 and thinking what could have been...

 

[BGHAWK]

Yes they would have taken minutes away (or seconds) from Williams and Flemming. Just face, there's no room to play 11-13 guys

And yet there are those who want Fran's two sons to walk on so we can have 15 players instead of 13 and have 5 instead of 3 that don't get playing time.

 

[BBHawk]

I agree that it's not easy to see the future with these kids 4/5 years ahead of time, but I think we saw the more game ready player redshirted this year with Hutton and the less needed/skilled player allowed to not red shirt in Fleming. May have been more of a future team need type of move than skill based, but the logic remains the same.

That is your opinion. I think that McC disagreed given what actually happened. And I would trust his judgement over yours.

 

[bigfische]

That is your opinion. I think that McC disagreed given what actually happened. And I would trust his judgement over yours.

Uh, yeah...that's why I said, "I think". And disagreed with what even? What actually happened? Not sure why you took offense to anything there but you seem grumpy. Hope your day turns around for you.

 

[BBHawk]

I agree that it's not easy to see the future with these kids 4/5 years ahead of time, but I think we saw the more game ready player redshirted this year with Hutton and the less needed/skilled player allowed to not red shirt in Fleming. May have been more of a future team need type of move than skill based, but the logic remains the same.

That is your opinion. I think that McC disagreed given what actually happened. And I would trust his judgement over yours.

Uh, yeah...that's why I said, "I think". And disagreed with what even? What actually happened? Not sure why you took offense to anything there but you seem grumpy. Hope your day turns around for you.

Not grumpy. just trying to follow your logic and not seeing it. We have no idea whether Hutton or Moss was more "game ready" than Fleming. I was just pointing out that McC and staff would have a much better idea, and they went with Fleming.

 

[bigfische]

Not grumpy. just trying to follow your logic and not seeing it. We have no idea whether Hutton or Moss was more "game ready" than Fleming. I was just pointing out that McC and staff would have a much better idea, and they went with Fleming.

Not grumpy. just trying to follow your logic and not seeing it. We have no idea whether Hutton or Moss was more "game ready" than Fleming. I was just pointing out that McC and staff would have a much better idea, and they went with Fleming.

I'm aware we don't know who was more game ready. That's why I said "I think". I think you are implying that I'm saying Fran made a bad choice or something? I'm legit confused why you think it is some sort of an argument point that Fran would know more than me.

Did you forget I said in my first post that you don't necessarily red shirt the "worst" guy?