A couple of things. I am completely happy with Fran, but when you have to play or start 3 or 4 freshmen, then you missed on some recruiting targets and/or maybe a couple players didn't work out how you would have liked. Bucky O'connor, Lute Olson and Ralph Miller lead the list for me, and as much as I liked Sharm Schuerman as a player and as a color guy, he wouldn't rank in the top 10 of Iowa coaches for me.
Fran Climbing the ladder of Best Iowa Coach ever?
- Thread starter Franisdaman
- Start date
I attended an Iowa gathering in Columbus the next night after the JVille game & before the ND game...a few of the players showed up (pretty sure they really didn't want to)...this single event determined 'my philosophy' when it comes to Iowa BB. If the fans thought they were "crushed" ...not even close to what the players were going thru.
I also can attest (thru one of the players) Ralph wanted the ND game pretty bad...it was sort of a different Ralph...there was some feeling amongst some of the guys...that Ralph was indeed coaching his last game with them but also at Iowa.
I've always felt that the Jacksonville loss had as much to do with Ralph moving on than anything.
Now he sits in a talent-laden recruitng bed where he can be as picky as he wants.
Better than Bucky O'Connor, Ralph Miller, Lute Olsen??? Not even close yet.
Yep, not ready to put Fran ahead of these guys yet, or even Davis necessarily - but the jury is still out. He's doing a good job and I think it's possible we haven't seen the best yet. Fran's certainly better than Alford and Raveling IMO.
Someone said this earlier, but let's talk again in a few more years. It's usually really tough to to evaluate these types of things in the middle of a coach's tenure.. When Fran's time is done, we'll have a pretty good idea where he's at.
I think he's basically gotten us back to at least the Tom Davis level (7 seed, second round loss territory), with a few flashes of being better. Davis didn't usually get us to Top 5-10 at any point of the season once he was coaching all his own talent. Fran peaked at #10 a few years ago during Marble's senior year, and #3 at one point last year. I know, I know - that's not where we finished, but point being that I think we've seen the potential at times and I believe Fran's ceiling is higher than Davis, even if he hasn't proven it yet.
Fran needs to get us to the Sweet 16 or beyond a couple times, win a Big Ten title (regular season), etc. before I think he's legitimately in the discussion. Just my 2 cents. If he keeps doing what he's been doing, he'll essentially be Tom Davis Part Deux. That's not the worst thing in the world, though, IMO.
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The Jacksonville game was the first Hawk basketball game I ever watched that I remember. 24" B&W TV in my family's living room.
Artis Gilmore is what I remember most about it other than the back and forth late. Still one of the best centers I've ever seen. I remember watching him in the ABA when they had a TV contract, the finals game against UCLA his junior year...monster strong player.
Artis Gilmore is what I remember most about it other than the back and forth late. Still one of the best centers I've ever seen. I remember watching him in the ABA when they had a TV contract, the finals game against UCLA his junior year...monster strong player.
- Lute Olson was 167-91 at Iowa
Final 4 appearance
Sweet 16 appearance
- Tom Davis was 269-140 at Iowa
Elite 8 appearance
2 Sweet 16 appearances
- George Raveling was 55-38 at Iowa
- Steve Alford was 152-106 at Iowa
2nd round appearance
- Todd Lickliter was 38-57 at Iowa
2 Final 4 appearances
1 National title
- Fran McCaffery is 136-99 at Iowa
2nd round appearance
2nd round appearance
On a serious note, in my lifetime, I give the nod to Dr. Tom for being the best coach ...
Just watched the end of the North Dakota game. After the debacle of Lick and dick moves of Awfulrad we needed someone with the attitude of Fran. He takes no shit from anyone and we needed that attitude on the Hawks. It is the only way to survive in the BIG and Power Five conferences.
Love Fran, but he's got some work to do. Like a BIG championship and at least an elite 8 if not a final four, before he's in that conversation. It's great having four straight first team players, but that number is a little skewed for me. For most of those years, the Hawks were too reliant on one player to score, and put up numbers. It helped them to make all conference teams, but I think is one reason we struggled when teams figured out a way later in the year to slow that guy down. This new crop of players seems more diverse, and talented as a GROUP, so I think we'll get away from needing one guy to carry the load. Should help going forward.First off, if he had failed to rise Iowa from the crater Lick left, we might be the "Rutgers of the Big 10."
Now, consider this. The last time Iowa had a coach who coached 4 straight first team All Big 10 honorees was in the 1940's. That points to being good at evaluating high school talent AND then developing that talent while those kids are at Iowa, correct? And isn't that what makes a coach a great coach?
This and as far as I am or was concerned, he was the only Jacksonville player out there.
This thread is stupid I'm done reading. Ripping on Davis or Fran stfu. If any coach should get ripped on it's that alfraud, he was a dick and way underachieved.
was raveling really around long enough to know if he could recruit to iowa year after year after year ?
Marble Horton and Anthony Pendleton were McDonald's All Americans recruited to Iowa by Raveling. That's 3 elite recruits (maybe more- memory is fuzzy) in 3 years as coach. I'd be happy with one McD AA every 4 years these days.
Fran NCAA= Davidson and Temple
SA NCAA= Creighton in 2001
2 is more than one. Fran in 7 and SA in 8 years. Fact
Yep. I forgot that Fran had two wins. If he makes the tourney this year or has another upper division or better season next year I'd move him up on the list.
The problem is that right now Fran hasn't had that transcendent season like 2006 was. If that shot doesn't go in by NW State we would have a much different feeling about that year. So Fran is currently going for volume of decent seasons without a great season. He had us in the top 10 last year, but SA did that in 2001 and 2006. None of those seasons turned out the way we wanted.
If you forget about results and just look at coaching ability I'd take Fran's coaching over SA and Sharm any day of the week. Plus Fran dug us out of a significantly bigger hole than any other coach.
Ask yourself this, if you could pick any of our coaches to put in charge of the 1987 team with all of that talent, who would you pick? Right now there's probably four people I'd pick before Fran. Bucky, Ralph, Lute, and Dr. Tom.
Fran has taken the program from a laughing stock and has stopped the bleeding from transfers of our best players each season.
The numbers are great, but everyone begins with a different baseline. I think he's done a solid job much like Dr. Tom and he certainly didn't have equal footing at the start.
I still think his best teams lie ahead and I look forward to the ride.
The numbers are great, but everyone begins with a different baseline. I think he's done a solid job much like Dr. Tom and he certainly didn't have equal footing at the start.
I still think his best teams lie ahead and I look forward to the ride.
I forgot about that.
I remember Morgan and Burroughs too, I believe Burroughs got the game winner. I remember the shadow score and clock at the bottom of the screen. Simple graphics common with the era.
I remember how skinny all the players were.
Gilmore wasn't a wide body...lean and ripped. He was physically dominant but still very raw offensively. I remember him playing the next year against Jim McDaniels of Western Kentucky and seeing how much bigger McDaniels looked next to Gilmore.
Gilmore was not a polished offensive player, but he knew what he was good at and turned in useful offense by doing the dirty work type things.
I became a Kentucky Colonels fan after he signed in the ABA. It was one of the few pro teams I could pick up on AM radio in Iowa from 840AM WHAS out of Louisville, one of the easiest clear channel AM stations to receive in Iowa. Once John Brown took the money and ran folding the team in the merger...I've never had a favorite pro team since, but I root for the Spurs mostly and all the old ABA teams left.
The most successful franchise in the league got sold down the river and their fans screwed.
I forgot about that.
I remember Morgan and Burroughs too, I believe Burroughs got the game winner. I remember the shadow score and clock at the bottom of the screen. Simple graphics common with the era.
I remember how skinny all the players were.
Gilmore wasn't a wide body...lean and ripped. He was physically dominant but still very raw offensively. I remember him playing the next year against Jim McDaniels of Western Kentucky and seeing how much bigger McDaniels looked next to Gilmore.
Gilmore was not a polished offensive player, but he knew what he was good at and turned in useful offense by doing the dirty work type things.
I became a Kentucky Colonels fan after he signed in the ABA. It was one of the few pro teams I could pick up on AM radio in Iowa from 840AM WHAS out of Louisville, one of the easiest clear channel AM stations to receive in Iowa. Once John Brown took the money and ran folding the team in the merger...I've never had a favorite pro team since, but I root for the Spurs mostly and all the old ABA teams left.
The most successful franchise in the league got sold down the river and their fans screwed.
Gilmore's 5th foul was setup by Iowa...he ran a straight line from one end to the other..from offense to defense..from defense to offense..once he got a little over half court he would sometimes turn his head to visually pickup where the ball was (behind him).
An Iowa player (I'm trying to remember who...I think it was Calabria)...stepped in front of him...he ran over him...5th foul..
the height difference of the front lines was incredible...two 7 footers & a 6'10" as a 3rd...versus 6'8", 6'7" & 6'6"..
after Iowa demolished ND we stayed for the Kentucky/JVille game..we rooted for Jacksonville...the Kentucky fans sitting around us were confused considering JVille had beat us...(or so I thought)..
when JVille took the floor..we were clapping for them...a lady (decked out in blue/white) turned around and said " how can you be clapping for them nig****rs" ... so we just hollered the more...she & her fellows' were not very happy with us cow pokes from Iowa...especially when they lost.
Remember, Kentucky I think was one of the last SEC teams to integrate, I think it was a guy named Tom Payne, around 1971 - and if my memory is good, it didn't turn out well.
Adolph Rupp I believe retired shortly after. I want to say he once said a black player would never play for him at Kentucky, too.
Adolph Rupp I believe retired shortly after. I want to say he once said a black player would never play for him at Kentucky, too.
all true...I was 18 at the time.. was amazed the comments coming out of the mouths of grandmother aged women...it was hatred..front & center.
This sure got sideways fast. All the OP said was that he's climbing the ladder. And he certainly is. I think we all agree he's elevated the program and the future looks bright. Best situation we've been in following Iowa BB for a long time now.
What year did Gilmore join the Bulls?I forgot about that.
I remember Morgan and Burroughs too, I believe Burroughs got the game winner. I remember the shadow score and clock at the bottom of the screen. Simple graphics common with the era.
I remember how skinny all the players were.
Gilmore wasn't a wide body...lean and ripped. He was physically dominant but still very raw offensively. I remember him playing the next year against Jim McDaniels of Western Kentucky and seeing how much bigger McDaniels looked next to Gilmore.
Gilmore was not a polished offensive player, but he knew what he was good at and turned in useful offense by doing the dirty work type things.
I became a Kentucky Colonels fan after he signed in the ABA. It was one of the few pro teams I could pick up on AM radio in Iowa from 840AM WHAS out of Louisville, one of the easiest clear channel AM stations to receive in Iowa. Once John Brown took the money and ran folding the team in the merger...I've never had a favorite pro team since, but I root for the Spurs mostly and all the old ABA teams left.
The most successful franchise in the league got sold down the river and their fans screwed.
My Dad (rip) always said that losing Ralph Miller was the biggest mistake the Iowa athletic dept made. He never forgave Evy for that one. Felt it was all about Evy's ego.
So are we saying Forest Evashevski single-handedly kept both the football and basketball programs from attaining national prominence?
I think it's time for Fran to get a big time coaching deal in the $3 million to 3.5M range for 7 years and really lock him up for the long term. Guy is a hell of a coach and I'm extremely confident that if we do commit to him on that level he'll bring us to Elite 8's and Final Fours by the time he's done. He has the best eye for talent this side of Kirk Ferentz, his teams are all well coached (this season getting to the bubble was a freaking miracle for how young the team was and how much coaching these kids needed), and he's now starting to get the 4 stars you need to make deep tourney runs in March/April. He knows what he is doing and from here on out his success is going to pretty much be the product of how committed the school is/what our glass ceiling as a program is/how much luck we have in any given year.
Give Fran lifetime contract. 2 tourney wins is incredible feat for him. Easily will project to final fours with the talent that wants to come here. Sign him now before North Carolina calls him.
The best programs show their love in the tough times and before the results. Otherwise we will perpetually lose anyone any good when the bluebloods come crawling...
Iowa BasketballVerified account@IowaHoops 1h1 hour ago
Fran McCaffery and his staff are the first in program history to guide Iowa to 18-or-more wins in six straight seasons. #Hawkeyes
Fran McCaffery and his staff are the first in program history to guide Iowa to 18-or-more wins in six straight seasons. #Hawkeyes
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