Fran will be ok if...

[Auger]

I still believe in Fran and think he is our guy. Two things stood out to me last night. Fran stinks at late game management when its a 1-2 possession game (this many of us already know), and two Fran stinks at player personnel management. I don't even need to talk about the 1st one. Player personnel management on the other hand hasnt been discussed much.

Fran sinks or swims with his main lineup, he doesnt really invest much in deeper bench guys during the season and there typically isnt much progression from his main rotational guys as the season progresses. He is much to stubborn to make lineup changes when things start to become unglued. If you look at a lot of great coaches in the league they know how to tweak their lineups throughout the season and can even develope deep bench guys to have big roles late in the season. Much a reason why MSU is peaking again late. With Fran if Plan A starts to fall apart there isnt a Plan B ready, it has to be created on the spot. I would say all of our starters and even Uhl and Baer have all degressed as of late (Baer not so much). Wagner is the only player getting minutes that has been progressing but he has still been out of thhe regular roation so much this year that the team doesnt always know how to get him involved in offense. Williams last night showed he likely deserved to have some investment in games at about 5-6 mins a game during the B1G season. Instead we are sitting here once again having a last minute collapse while our Plan A players degress and there is no Plan B to help rescue or breath new life into the team.

Fran needs to look at how he manages his player personnel during the season.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

While I agree with your statement, what are his assistants doing? I mean we have like 4 guys over there besides Fran. Why won't 1 of them step up and say lets try this. Is Fran just in that much control he won't change anything?

I would say also Fran needs to find some "Speed". The current line-up and looking at next years team they are going to need some speed. The lanky tall players are great, but just look at what Yogi did last night. He was able to penetrate the zone, and he single handily destroyed our press every time. Speed helps in this game.

 

[PRPcoach]

Honestly, the fact that Ellingson got the minutes early in the season that Williams probably deserved is a red flag to me.
I'm not at practice, but while I really like Fran overall, some of his personnel decisions over the years have been baffling to me.

 

[Auger]

I told a friend last night you can't blame Fran for going with his core guys last night in the final 3 mins but you can blame him for HAVING to go with them. Fran doesnt manage or invest much of anything to any other options/players all season. Thats why late in the year when finishing close games out becomes a problem it becomes our death when we only have one option.

 

[Chicityhawkfan]

I've been a huge supporter of Fran, but the last 3 minutes of last nights game were pretty hard to watch. Having said that, the 2 plays he drew up to try and tie the game were things of beauty. Players have to knock down wide open shots, and the plays Fran drew up gave them that chance.

 

[ICWestfan]

While I agree with your statement, what are his assistants doing? I mean we have like 4 guys over there besides Fran. Why won't 1 of them step up and say lets try this. Is Fran just in that much control he won't change anything?

I would say also Fran needs to find some "Speed". The current line-up and looking at next years team they are going to need some speed. The lanky tall players are great, but just look at what Yogi did last night. He was able to penetrate the zone, and he single handily destroyed our press every time. Speed helps in this game.

You do realize that YF is considered one of the elite PGs in the country, right? It's not like he torches Iowa exclusively.

As far as player management goes, this is an extremely young team outside of the starters who have done nothing to merit diminished roles. The only quibble I would have is that Fran seems to be infatuated with kids like Ellingson who really haven't contributed to the team as far as floor time goes. I also think Fran gets freaked out by young players like CW making mistakes. Fran is a lot like Ferentz in that regard.

 

[bravehawks1]

I told a friend last night you can't blame Fran for going with his core guys last night in the final 3 mins but you can blame him for HAVING to go with them. Fran doesnt manage or invest much of anything to any other options/players all season. Thats why late in the year when finishing close games out becomes a problem it becomes our death when we only have one option.

Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did think the IU defense on the last play was terrible. You don't guard the middle of the lane in that situation, you guard the three point line which can tie the game so the fact that Jok was able to get a reasonable shot was nice of him.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

You do realize that YF is considered one of the elite PGs in the country, right? It's not like he torches Iowa exclusively.

As far as player management goes, this is an extremely young team outside of the starters who have done nothing to merit diminished roles. The only quibble I would have is that Fran seems to be infatuated with kids like Ellingson who really haven't contributed to the team as far as floor time goes. I also think Fran gets freaked out by young players like CW making mistakes. Fran is a lot like Ferentz in that regard.

Yeah, but your telling me there are no other PG's out there that are quick like him? I am sorry watching iowa's offense last night was disgusting. They stood around and their movement was very slow. I always thought it the oppositions defense that made it hard for our guys to get open. NOPE, we are just slow. Iowa's spacing on offense was horrible and the fact that Jok is our player who can get open is sad. I mean put Iowas offense next to IU's. Indiana's guys were moving and they were very quick in their cuts and movement away from the ball. That's why they get open shots and we don't. Their movement is a whole lot better than ours.

 

[bravehawks1]

You do realize that YF is considered one of the elite PGs in the country, right? It's not like he torches Iowa exclusively.

As far as player management goes, this is an extremely young team outside of the starters who have done nothing to merit diminished roles. The only quibble I would have is that Fran seems to be infatuated with kids like Ellingson who really haven't contributed to the team as far as floor time goes. I also think Fran gets freaked out by young players like CW making mistakes. Fran is a lot like Ferentz in that regard.

You are correct about Fran freaking out about mistakes, but I hope he saw last night that if you let things play out just a bit that the freshman can improve and add to the team. Since he was forced to play either Williams or Fleming due to foul trouble, he stayed with Williams longer. Granted, CW struggled to run the offense effectively but Mike and Sapp have that problem at times too, CW did some very good things both offensively and defensively last night. Will he do it next game, probably depends on whether he plays for 30 seconds or 3 minutes.

 

[wawasee]

I watch Iowa a lot when I have time. Fran is a very good coach. Going forward he needs to find a point guard that can control tempo like Yogi. Think about it. The Bob Cosey list has ten names on it. Three are from Indiana. The only team that offered Nic Moore was North Western. If and I mean if Fran can find that guy who can dish,drive and hit three he will look a lot smarter. Good luck in the Big Ten tourney. I like Iowa because they do it right. They don't make the news for paying players and all that nonsense...

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

I thought just the "mindset" that Christian showed last night was miles ahead of previous appearances. He came in simply with a look on his face that didn't have the deer-in-the-headlights look that he usually seemed to have. I would suppose the DITH look was in large part to knowing if he screwed up in even the slightest, he was done. Seeing him drive and defend and even rebound with some fire was great!

 

[DavenportHawk8]

Yup now I am sure we won't see him at all Saturday in Ann Arbor. Fran will have some reason not to play him.

 

[doughudd]

I still believe in Fran and think he is our guy. Two things stood out to me last night. Fran stinks at late game management when its a 1-2 possession game (this many of us already know), and two Fran stinks at player personnel management. I don't even need to talk about the 1st one. Player personnel management on the other hand hasnt been discussed much.

Fran sinks or swims with his main lineup, he doesnt really invest much in deeper bench guys during the season and there typically isnt much progression from his main rotational guys as the season progresses. He is much to stubborn to make lineup changes when things start to become unglued. If you look at a lot of great coaches in the league they know how to tweak their lineups throughout the season and can even develope deep bench guys to have big roles late in the season. Much a reason why MSU is peaking again late. With Fran if Plan A starts to fall apart there isnt a Plan B ready, it has to be created on the spot. I would say all of our starters and even Uhl and Baer have all degressed as of late (Baer not so much). Wagner is the only player getting minutes that has been progressing but he has still been out of thhe regular roation so much this year that the team doesnt always know how to get him involved in offense. Williams last night showed he likely deserved to have some investment in games at about 5-6 mins a game during the B1G season. Instead we are sitting here once again having a last minute collapse while our Plan A players degress and there is no Plan B to help rescue or breath new life into the team.

Fran needs to look at how he manages his player personnel during the season.

So if you don't want Mike and Sapp in the game at the end then who?

 

[Hawk_4shur]

All this Fran hating is a little much, but I guess someone has to take the heat from the last few weeks of performance.

Coaches have to make decisions in "real-time" - they don't get to watch what happens and then do it over differently. Fran has "his way", just like KF has "his way". You have to live with the strengths and apparent weaknesses until the next coach comes along.

Anyway, we win last night if Yogi didn't play like S. Curry. He was incredible.

 

[Auger]

So if you don't want Mike and Sapp in the game at the end then who?

Look a couple posts down from my OP and you will see I said you cant blame Fran for going with his core but you can blame hime for HAVING to go with them.

 

[cg8284]

Fran has done a great job getting the program out of the cellar. Now let's get some fresh blood in here since we have an actual face to the program and are making tournament appearances again. If we're sitting here in two years with all new players and it's the same late game meltdowns and the program has stalled then we will know it is Fran and not just the shortcomings of this roster.

 

[DanL53]

I am a Fran Defender. Let's get that out of the way for the 2% who didn't know it.

Now, Lately I've read how miserable our bench has been. I've also read posts questioning why our starters couldn't go for more minutes. Or why our bench was in at certain times of the game. And, I've read posts saying the reason Williams wasn't playing is he wasn't good enough.

Now I'm reading quite the opposite and it sounds to me like it is all 20/20 hindsight. 20/20 hindsight is nothing more than carping about something that went wrong! It presents no solutions.

So, a request. How about posting what is going to go wrong BEFORE the Michigan game? You folks see, the difference between what McCaffery is doing and you are doing is he makes decisions that effect the game, many of you make judgments about those decisions after seeing if they work or not.

So, I'll set up a new thread. Let's see that couch coach ability! Show everyone what you've got. Look for "What is going to go wrong at Michigan?"

 

[SJeagleEye]

Odd how much in common KF and Fran have and are in a lot of ways.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

Fran, please, recruit some quality guards. Everyone associated with college basketball understands that it's a guard oriented game, except you. Stop falling into the "length is all that matters" trap so many people fall into here. Recruit skills and talent. I don't care if the guy is 5'10" if he can shoot and/or blow by people off the dribble, then offer them a scholarship. People get so infatuated with length they forget you need to be able to shoot to score and handle the ball. Quickness is what breaks down a defense and opens up shots. Contrary to a few people here, rankings DO matter, so don't be afraid to go after some big name players (swing for the fences), just make sure you have fallback options.

Finally, turn over in-game coaching to any of your asst coaches. You are the worst in-game coach in the conference. Brutal. I thought Crean was the worst but somehow you've managed to even overcome him in this category.

 

[SJeagleEye]

I think Fran tries to control to much, his players tighten up. It's like he freaks out all game long, but then at the very end says, "Ok, no timeout, do it on your own now."

He needs to figure out how to better be the leader of a TEAM.

And then, recruit better players.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

You do realize that YF is considered one of the elite PGs in the country, right? It's not like he torches Iowa exclusively.

As far as player management goes, this is an extremely young team outside of the starters who have done nothing to merit diminished roles. The only quibble I would have is that Fran seems to be infatuated with kids like Ellingson who really haven't contributed to the team as far as floor time goes. I also think Fran gets freaked out by young players like CW making mistakes. Fran is a lot like Ferentz in that regard.

Yes, but Fran will never recruit a YF talent because he's obsessed with length. Give me skills and talent every day over length.

 

[kzoohawk80]

I thought just the "mindset" that Christian showed last night was miles ahead of previous appearances. He came in simply with a look on his face that didn't have the deer-in-the-headlights look that he usually seemed to have. I would suppose the DITH look was in large part to knowing if he screwed up in even the slightest, he was done. Seeing him drive and defend and even rebound with some fire was great!

His best games this year are MSU, OSU and Indiana. He played his best games when the game was in doubt or competitive. He hasn't looked good in mop up duty. Some people are like that. Don't evaluate players on how they play in 20 point blowouts at the end of the game.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

I think Fran tries to control to much, he players tighten up. It's like he freaks out all game long, but then at the very end says, "Ok, no timeout, do it on your own now."

He needs to figure out how to better be the leader of a TEAM.

And then, recruit better players.

I think this is a point Kenyon Murray was alluding to the other day while still trying to be charitable to Fran. Does Fran negatively impact players performance with all his screaming?

 

[kzoohawk80]

Yes, but Fran will never recruit a YF talent because he's obsessed with length. Give me skills and talent every day over length.

Man your really reaching to try and prove your point. Ulis, Dickerson, Gesell, Clemmons, Cartwright and I'd assume there's more that he recruited.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

It's not much different than Ferentz running Weisman into the ground because 'nobody else has any experience'. Right, they don't, because you refuse to play anybody else, so sort of built in excuse. Took a run at Ulis, then we had a cup of coffee with Trey Dickerson, but other than that, no guards brought in to push MG or AC or at least give us a serviceable option off the bench in the event of injury, foul trouble, or a bad night. Instead we hear the spin about how Jok, Uhl, and Uthoff can all play the point. Mistake not to play Williams more and a mistake not to let Hutton or Moss learn through the season.

 

[AirForceChiefO]

Yes, but Fran will never recruit a YF talent because he's obsessed with length. Give me skills and talent every day over length.

If all Fran wanted was length, then why recruit Tyler Ulis hard for a couple of years before he went to Kentucky. That was his point guard. Unfortunately, Kentucky swooped in at the end. And even more unfortunately, Fran will have a tough time getting in on another point guard.

 

[dawgs_04]

Wasn't everybody bitching about the exact opposite in 2014? "Fran plays too many players" "Fran should let his starters build continuity"

 

[e720718998]

While I agree with your statement, what are his assistants doing? I mean we have like 4 guys over there besides Fran. Why won't 1 of them step up and say lets try this. Is Fran just in that much control he won't change anything?

I would say also Fran needs to find some "Speed". The current line-up and looking at next years team they are going to need some speed. The lanky tall players are great, but just look at what Yogi did last night. He was able to penetrate the zone, and he single handily destroyed our press every time. Speed helps in this game.

I bet Wagner is faster then Yogi

 

[HawkLogic]

I bet Wagner is faster then Yogi

Not in at 10 yard dash. Wagner is fast, great athlete, but there is no way he is as quick as Yogi

 

[e720718998]

Oh quick....that isn't the same as fast....

 

[PhantomFlyer]

Man your really reaching to try and prove your point. Ulis, Dickerson, Gesell, Clemmons, Cartwright and I'd assume there's more that he recruited.

Since AC and MG, Fran has recruited/signed bigger guards. Ulis didn't sign and Dickerson was a massive reach because Fran was desperate he had no fallback option after Ulis didn't sign. Again, give me short guards if they have skills and talent. Fran is recruiting neither.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

If all Fran wanted was length, then why recruit Tyler Ulis hard for a couple of years before he went to Kentucky. That was his point guard. Unfortunately, Kentucky swooped in at the end. And even more unfortunately, Fran will have a tough time getting in on another point guard.

Because he was an elite PG. Still, if Fran has the choice between length and skills/talent, he'll choose length more than not, unless the skills/talent are elite. For a PG, size isn't that big of a deal, unless you are Magic Johnson. Much rather have a guy with skill/talent/quickness. Yogi isn't an elite PG because of his size. What irritates me is this is a position where Fran could mine gold. A lot of coaches are obsessed with length, so they let a guy like Wes Washpun pass by. It's like in baseball where MLB executives fell in love with power and didn't value the guy who got on base a lot. This is they gold mine that Billy Beane tapped into. I think the shorter, quicker PG's is similar in college basketball recruiting. Now, granted, if my choice is between a shorter PG, with little quickness and little talent/skills, then give me length.

 

[kzoohawk80]

Since AC and MG, Fran has recruited/signed bigger guards. Ulis didn't sign and Dickerson was a massive reach because Fran was desperate he had no fallback option after Ulis didn't sign. Again, give me short guards if they have skills and talent. Fran is recruiting neither.

Obviously he's missed some guys. But to be fair he could promise Ulis immediate playing time. How many true freshman point guards with these skills could he promise playing time for this year with 2 senior point guards? Highly recruited players want to start right away. He's signed Bohannan(spelling) for next year. Got Williams last year to play point for next year. Fran likes swing players. He likes guys that are interchangeable. I don't understand why you think recruiting long and athletic players is a bad idea. It's not like he's just looking at that. He's recruited a ton of skilled and talented players.

 

[RocknRollface]

Fran has done a great job getting the program out of the cellar. Now let's get some fresh blood in here since we have an actual face to the program and are making tournament appearances again. If we're sitting here in two years with all new players and it's the same late game meltdowns and the program has stalled then we will know it is Fran and not just the shortcomings of this roster.

This is where I'm at.

The one constant in this amazing 4 year streak of close loses and choke jobs is this group of seniors.

These guys have been good for the program but at the end of games they stop moving, don't want to shoot, choke at the line and have not gotten any better at these things in 4 years.

Seems like it's mostly mental, especially now.

I have a feeling things will look different next year with almost entirely new team.

 

[RocknRollface]

Fran, please, recruit some quality guards. Everyone associated with college basketball understands that it's a guard oriented game, except you. Stop falling into the "length is all that matters" trap so many people fall into here. Recruit skills and talent. I don't care if the guy is 5'10" if he can shoot and/or blow by people off the dribble, then offer them a scholarship. People get so infatuated with length they forget you need to be able to shoot to score and handle the ball. Quickness is what breaks down a defense and opens up shots. Contrary to a few people here, rankings DO matter, so don't be afraid to go after some big name players (swing for the fences), just make sure you have fallback options.

Finally, turn over in-game coaching to any of your asst coaches. You are the worst in-game coach in the conference. Brutal. I thought Crean was the worst but somehow you've managed to even overcome him in this category.

And what do you think was going through his mind when he went all out for Ulis and then brought in Dickerson?

That "length is all that matters?"

This is not directed only at you, but all you with you're recruiting suggestions need to buy a clue.

Fran gets the best players he can get.

This idea that he purposely recruits less athletic players can only come from clueless morons.

Fran recruits a ton of high level players, most of them choose to go elsewhere for variousness reasons.

The more we win the better recruiting will get.

 

[RocknRollface]

Yes, but Fran will never recruit a YF talent because he's obsessed with length. Give me skills and talent every day over length.

As I just pointed out, this is just beyond stupid.

Not to mention the number of effective high D1 players under 5'10 is extremely low.

 

[RocknRollface]

It's not much different than Ferentz running Weisman into the ground because 'nobody else has any experience'. Right, they don't, because you refuse to play anybody else, so sort of built in excuse. Took a run at Ulis, then we had a cup of coffee with Trey Dickerson, but other than that, no guards brought in to push MG or AC or at least give us a serviceable option off the bench in the event of injury, foul trouble, or a bad night. Instead we hear the spin about how Jok, Uhl, and Uthoff can all play the point. Mistake not to play Williams more and a mistake not to let Hutton or Moss learn through the season.

There's at least 5 other guards sitting on the bench.

There's only so many scholarships.

Again, Fran tried to recruit over MG and AC and it didn't work.

There isn't just some magic place where you go acquire whatever kind of player you want.

 

[RocknRollface]

Since AC and MG, Fran has recruited/signed bigger guards. Ulis didn't sign and Dickerson was a massive reach because Fran was desperate he had no fallback option after Ulis didn't sign. Again, give me short guards if they have skills and talent. Fran is recruiting neither.

You're just talking in circles.

Fran "wouldn't" but then he did. So that doesn't count?

You don't actually have a point, you're just making things up.

To say Fran has recruited guards without talent is another idiotic statement.

 

[RocknRollface]

Because he was an elite PG. Still, if Fran has the choice between length and skills/talent, he'll choose length more than not, unless the skills/talent are elite. For a PG, size isn't that big of a deal, unless you are Magic Johnson. Much rather have a guy with skill/talent/quickness. Yogi isn't an elite PG because of his size. What irritates me is this is a position where Fran could mine gold. A lot of coaches are obsessed with length, so they let a guy like Wes Washpun pass by. It's like in baseball where MLB executives fell in love with power and didn't value the guy who got on base a lot. This is they gold mine that Billy Beane tapped into. I think the shorter, quicker PG's is similar in college basketball recruiting. Now, granted, if my choice is between a shorter PG, with little quickness and little talent/skills, then give me length.

EVERYONE but Fran let Washpun pass by, he wasn't very good at the time.

Fran was one of only two high major coaches who actually offered him.

So what you are saying is again , completely %100 incorrect.

The two Pgs on this team aren't even tall, so really what the hell are you even talking about?

Williams is literally the only non short pg Fran has recruited here.

Why am I even wasting my time on this stupidity?

 

[Ihawkhoops]

There's at least 5 other guards sitting on the bench.

There's only so many scholarships.

Again, Fran tried to recruit over MG and AC and it didn't work.

There isn't just some magic place where you go acquire whatever kind of player you want.

It's called junior college. I am not expecting Ulis-level talent, but these guys are everywhere, see all the teams we play. So you are telling me that the best this veteran staff can do is Oglesby, Fleming, and Ellingson for guard depth? Watch some of the MVC and other conference tournaments and tell me that none of those guys would have wanted to play in the big ten. The guard position in college basketball is like running back in college football.