FSU to the BIG in next 30 days?

[markfromj]

So let’s scrub Native Americans from all modern day visibility and send them further into their irrelevance.

No. But let’s not use them as props.

If you ask 1000 people to describe a Seminole, what comes to mind immediately is the FSU portrayal of Chief Osceola.

Not one person pictures a lawyer, and engineer, a teacher, a homeless person, a mother, etc.

“Seminoles” are people that war riding a horse. That’s the danger: The single image portrayal.

 

[markfromj]

We should ask our Seminole friends over on the OT board. I can't think of a better group of people to decide this issue than a group of hardcore football fans.

I hope this isn’t a serious suggestion.

 

[markfromj]

It's a case by case situation. In the case of FSU and the Seminole tribe, it appears they have a pretty strong collaborative relationship.

This is irrelevant.

 

[markfromj]

How does it dehumanize them? It’s one image of a Seminole warrior.

Exactly. It is the ONLY image portrayed. Never a lawyer. Never a doctor. Never a homeless person. Never a teacher. Never a construction worker.

Seminoles are all those things and more. But the only image is the warrior.

It’s dehumanizes a diverse set of people into one single view of them.

 

[BonzoFury]

No. But let’s not use them as props.

If you ask 1000 people to describe a Seminole, what comes to mind immediately is the FSU portrayal of Chief Osceola.

Not one person pictures a lawyer, and engineer, a teacher, a homeless person, a mother, etc.

“Seminoles” are people that war riding a horse. That’s the danger: The single image portra

No doubt you're the same type of person who freely throws around pejorative terms that you find completely justifiable about people/groups/ideas you don't like. Moral superiority is a thin cloak usually made of artificial fabric. But it's the favorite garment of the narcissist.

 

[markfromj]

There was a documentary about this. The Seminole Nation receives scholarships and other benefits from the association with the university. I always chuckle when some progressive gets offended on behalf of some group of which they do not belong.

My ancestors were Vikings, and I am proud to see Norse named sports teams. I do know the horned helmets were really not a thing.

I’m not a progressive.

Think money is coercive?

 

[JerseyCityHawki]

No doubt you're the same type of person who freely throws around pejorative terms that you find completely justifiable about people/groups/ideas you don't like. Moral superiority is a thin cloak usually made of artificial fabric.

Well said and true

 

[markfromj]

People like Mark are in minority but they sure in the hell are the loudest

The start of change is always one or a few that say “hell no!”. They are always mocked.

 

[BonzoFury]

The start of change is always one or a few that say “hell no!”. They are always mocked.

Some are right and some are full of shit and deserve mocking. It's not an absolute.

 

[markfromj]

He's "that person" who...when he doesn't like something...pretends to be offended, then whines until it is taken away, spoiling things for everyone else.

Again, I’m not “offended”.

I am afraid of what has happened and can happen when groups of people are reduced down to a single stereotype.

 

[BrotherHawkeye]

No. But let’s not use them as props.

If you ask 1000 people to describe a Seminole, what comes to mind immediately is the FSU portrayal of Chief Osceola.

Not one person pictures a lawyer, and engineer, a teacher, a homeless person, a mother, etc.

“Seminoles” are people that war riding a horse. That’s the danger: The single image portrayal.

That's a lot to put on the side of helmet.

Funny thing, the Seminoles are technically still at war with the U.S. So, it is technically still an accurate portrayal. Maybe that's why the tribal leaders have not objected. So, you take that away from them, maybe you take away of piece of their history. I'd defer to the Seminoles on this one.

 

[RIGHTWINGHAWK]

No secret FSU wants to ditch ACC, but this rumor says it happens in next month.

RUMOR: Florida State working to leave ACC for Big Ten within next month

Rumor has it that Florida State will be heading to the Big Ten

www.yahoo.com

Great! Would be a fine addition to B1G and open the Florida market.

 

[markfromj]

Huh….isn't the Seminole nation one tribe and don’t they get to decide if it’s harmful to them or not.

No. Because the problem here is not exclusive to Seminoles.

Any reduction of any set of people down to a single image stereotype is wrong and dangerous.

 

[BonzoFury]

Again, I’m not “offended”.

I am afraid of what had happened and can happen when groups of people are reduced down to a single stereotype.

There you have it. Your argument is built on a false premise. Unless you believe mascots of all kinds should be eliminated along with any identifier that refers to a group of people unless they are 100% homogeneous.

How bout terms like "Hoosier" for people from Indiana or "Southerner" or "Scandinavian"? Next thing you know people will be challenging the simplistic notion of male and female.

 

[markfromj]

How about the Notre Dame mascot? The Fighting Irish. Talk about dehumanizing! A poll should go out to every person of Irish descent and make a change if the real Irish don't like it. Same with the Vikings.

This is a bit different. They are the “Fighting Irish”. Therefore it is okay to display them always as fighting. Now, if they were the “Irish”, and always displayed as fighting, that would be wrong.

 

[markfromj]

Might as well get rid of the Hawkeyes while we're at it. I'm sure Hawkeye subjugated all of his Indian companions in some way or another. Heck, even the title of the novel is a soft clue, you know, if you're looking for it.

But the portrayal of a Hawkeye is of a bird.

 

[BonzoFury]

This is a bit different. They are the “Fighting Irish”. Therefore it is okay to display them always as fighting. Now, if they were the “Irish”, and always displayed as fighting, that would be wrong.

So it's OK to imply white Irishmen are inherently violent. Got cha.

 

[markfromj]

No doubt you're the same type of person who freely throws around pejorative terms that you find completely justifiable about people/groups/ideas you don't like. Moral superiority is a thin cloak usually made of artificial fabric. But it's the favorite garment of the narcissist.

I don’t believe I do this. I don’t think I don’t like any group of people, excluding behavior-based groups.

Examples of what terms you think I might use?

 

[markfromj]

Some are right and some are full of shit and deserve mocking. It's not an absolute.

Agreed.

 

[globalhawk]

We all should be.

Or, really, it’s not that it is “offensive”.

It’s that it is dangerous.

You are very ignorant of the relationship between FSU and the Seminole Tribe. VERY ignorant.

 

[markfromj]

That's a lot to put on the side of helmet.

Well. Sure, you’d have to come up with a single helmet image. Maybe even the current image is okay.

It’s the dude on the horse that is so bad.

 

[GHawk]

I’m not a progressive.

Think money is coercive?

You're right. You aren't a progressive. You're so far out there that you make progressive look like far right conservatives.

PS I'm not attacking conservatives. I'm pointing out an absolutely wacko.

 

[markfromj]

There you have it. Your argument is built on a false premise.

What is my false premise?

 

[markfromj]

So it's OK to imply white Irishmen are inherently violent. Got cha.

No. It is not okay, the way you wrote it.

But it is okay to imply, indeed, to portray the “Fighting Irish” as…fighting.

 

[GHawk]

Well. Sure, you’d have to come up with a single helmet image. Maybe even the current image is okay.

It’s the dude on the horse that is so bad.

You mean the Seminole indian that rides the horse? That's right I believe the rider is always a member of the tribe.

 

[markfromj]

You are very ignorant of the relationship between FSU and the Seminole Tribe. VERY ignorant.

Maybe. But that relationship is irrelevant to my point: FSU is portraying Seminoles in a single way.

 

[ClarindaA's]

Exactly. It is the ONLY image portrayed. Never a lawyer. Never a doctor. Never a homeless person. Never a teacher. Never a construction worker.

Seminoles are all those things and more. But the only image is the warrior.

It’s dehumanizes a diverse set of people into one single view of them.

Jesus Christ. What about the fighting Irish, Cornhuskers(why is he white), Cowboys. It’s a proud warrior symbol, no modern natives are walking around in native war gear. It’s not dangerous. No one thinks that modern day Native Americans are riding horses with spears and scalping people. For ****s sake man

 

[markfromj]

You mean the Seminole indian that rides the horse? That's right I believe the rider is always a member of the tribe.

But why don’t they have the warrior one week, a banker the next, then a teacher? Aren’t those all Seminoles?

 

[Chucksizzle1]

Exactly. It is the ONLY image portrayed. Never a lawyer. Never a doctor. Never a homeless person. Never a teacher. Never a construction worker.

Seminoles are all those things and more. But the only image is the warrior.

It’s dehumanizes a diverse set of people into one single view of them.

So you want a village people portrayal of the Seminole Tribe

 

[markfromj]

No one thinks that modern day Native Americans are riding horses with spears and scalping people. For ****s sake man

Eight year olds who watch FSU football do.

 

[markfromj]

So you want a village people portrayal of the Seminole Tribe

I want an accurate and full portrayal of it.

 

[ClarindaA's]

Eight year olds who watch FSU football do.

Who cares? They will learn

 

[markfromj]

Who cares? They will learn

They already are.

 

[globalhawk]

Maybe. But that relationship is irrelevant to my point: FSU is portraying Seminoles in a single way.

The Seminole Tribe was part of the committee that created Chief Osceola. You need to stop.

 

[markfromj]

The Seminole Tribe was part of the committee that created Chief Osceola. You need to stop.

Then they are part of the problem.

 

[ClarindaA's]

They already are.

Dude, no. Kids think lots of dumb things. Easter bunny, Santa, etc.

 

[globalhawk]

Then they are part of the problem.

Are you saying that the Seminole Tribe doesn't know how to accurately portray the Seminole Tribe?

 

[hahkize]

Someone elsewhere on the inter web inferred that Genetics56 is a big10 operative with hopeful but not accurate information. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[markfromj]

Are you saying that the Seminole Tribe doesn't know how to accurately portray the Seminole Tribe?

They may know how, but they clearly didn’t choose that way, I imagine for the money.

Instead, they chose a single, stereotyping image.

 

[globalhawk]

They may know how, but they clearly didn’t choose that way, I imagine for the money.

Instead, they chose a single, stereotyping image.

You aren't serious? I would recommend you walk away and do a quick Google search on the topic. I feel embarrassed for you.