Gaza Occupation?
- Thread starter grayhair81
- Start date
He laid out the beginnings of an idea, elements of which make sense,.. US involvement does not make sense.
I mean, I guess that whole "38th parallel" approach has "sorta" worked for a while, in some senses...and maybe even on an aggregate net basis.
But the thing that is nagging me is the idea that the last 75 years or so seem to suggest that the Palestinians and Israelis just can't seem to be next door neighbors. Even in a two state solution, I have this underlying sense that it's not so much that the Palestinians want to be free "from" Israel, they want to be free "of" Israel, or beyond that, they want Israel, and nothing less will do.
When two kids are fighting, you first pull them apart. When they go at it again, you separate them with physical distance. While I am completely opposed to the whole "us presence" approach as it's just batshit crazy on so many levels, maybe it's just time for the allies of palestinians to take them in and see if just maybe they can live a better life in peace if they're not next to the perceived neighborhood bully. Call it a humanitarian experiment. Maybe even a batshit crazy one basedon the historical exemplars you note. But the sense of dread of just pissing money away in reconstruction that'll be abused and then eventually blown up again in another ten or fifteen years, with significant loss of life...maybe it's just time to take a flier.
We can't make them like each other, no matter how much money we give them.
Palestinians will need a new babysitter,.. Their Middle Eastern neighbors don't want them at their houses, and putting either Israel or the US in charge will not be accepted by the neighborhood,.. Best solution is a coalition of the Middle Eastern neighbors providing baby sitting services inside a rebuilt Gaza,... Saudi Arabia doesn't want to get their hands dirty caring for the kids, so they can pay the bill...
Yup. It’s happened repeatedly throughout history. Doesn’t have a great track record for the displaced people in question, particularly for smaller fringe groups like Native American tribes, Jewish people during the diaspora, the Armenians, etc.
What I keep running into, is that this is a failure in leadership on the side of both Israel and Palestinians. The previous group that operated in the Gaza Strip lost power to Hama, whose stated goal is the wipe out Israel. Israel has taken an increasingly hard line towards them (justifiably so, especially after the October’23 attack).
I don’t know if some sort of partition would be workable, but there’s simply too many people for relocation to be a viable solution either. Neither side trusts the other, the US for decades had attempted to be as close to a neutral party to facilitate talks between the two, but Trump has made that all but impossible for the time being.
I honestly don’t see a path to peace right now.
You've got to be kidding. There's money in it for HIM.
He's a grifting asshole. It's all he knows.
You MAGAs really think the Orange Turd is smart enough to attempt to connect the dots in a crossword puzzle.
I'd like to have a live, impromptu press conference and challenge him to find Isreal on the globe.
No, first, ask him to spell g l o b e.
He's an intellectual vacuum. An idiot.
idiot
1. a stupid person
Ummm, you know I’m VERY far removed from MAGA, or supportive of Trump in any capacity right?
One thing many of you have been asking...... it takes water to run a golf course........ I know that.... you probably didn't know that......... I own many golf courses.......the best... so water... we need it... and we are going to get it to the course... with US made steel and if Japan wants to play ball, maybe some of theirs.... I don't know.... its going to depend on the deal.. but it will be 100 for america.... so water it makes the grass grow.... zoysia grass..... nobody has ever used American steel to pump water in gaza.... first time.... JOE Biden couldn't even think of things like that... we are going to have it done it 9 days.... I said 10... its gonna be fast... maybe 9...
he’s transformed a 75 year real estate war into a simple real estate deal. it’s also been about 75 years since einstein transformed physics with equivalent insight that spacetime curvature is gravity.
As Aardvark said, you can't make the Palestinians like Israel. They want all Jews dead. That's not an easy thing to overcome. Just look at what's going on in the U.S. with the Dems vs MAGA. You mentioned the fault is on both side of the Israel vs Gaza fight. That same thing has been said about our current political situation, Dems get blamed for trump/MAGA being in power. And while there is a little truth to that, the MAGA crowd is not going to change their minds on defending trump (and hating Dems). The Dems could bring back Reagan and the MAGA wouldn't want him. That same thing is going on in Gaza, the Hamas Palestinians are never going to be ok with Jews, NEVER. Do you really think you can change the mind of a MAGA? Do you really think you can change the mind of a Hamas Palestinian? No to both.
The war will never end until one side completely wins or as Aardvark said, someone completely separates the two sides.
I don’t totally agree with the premise that all Palestinians want all Jews dead…but at the same time, especially after the past year, there’s a lot of them who want to hurt the people who hurt them; and Hamas has promised to do just that. Maybe that’s just wishful thinking on my part, but I just have a hard time believing every last man, woman, and child wants that.
Israel has managed to gradually establish peaceful relations with most of its neighbors. So I believe they can coexist peacefully with Palestinians, but that’s not a road that will be quick nor easy at this point. And as densely populated the region is, idk how possible a physical separation is.
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Now that is a great post. Too bad my husband passed. He was an IP attorney. He would love this post.
You don't seem like the MAGA type. Yes, I know you aren't among the ignorant shit kickers.
It was a statement for effect. Sorry for the implication.
It doesn't have to be every last one of them, it just has to be enough. Just look at republicans these days, not every one of them hates democrats but a large percentage do. And the one's who are ok with Dems are a minority and either aren't willing speak out or are too scared. It only take a vocal majority of Palestinians for Gaza to be a danger to Israel.
Certainly there are plenty of palestinians who just want to live their lives. And your point about progress among other middle eastern nations certainly pulls at the strings of my better instincts to always be an optimistic 'long'. But honestly - and it really gives me no joy at all to say this - at this point I'm closer to the "just give up and try something new" camp, at least when it comes to gaza palestinians. As it is now, they're literally working on like five generations of dependency; probably won't be too many more before they cease to be a "people" as we commonly understand that term.
I wouldn't worry about real estate. There is plenty of real estate in that region, if local nation states open their doors a bit to the people they otherwise just sent money to. (I even saw a statement from some TN congressman that we should open our doors too to interested persons, and maybe so.) The gaza population is about 2m. Consider a place like Qatar, for example, which has over a million south-asian foreign workers, and has construction spend of $69B in 2025 with 9% projected construction spend growth over the next five years.
At the very least, it makes sense to me to get a handful of countries (perhaps both western and mid eastern) together and put together a "one-time, voluntary resettlement" program in place with a variety of optional landing sites to it. While the idea of "home" might be too much to overcome for many, it would be an interesting way of gauging just how much of the population really does just want an opportunity to live their lives somewhere in relative peace.
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Who gets to define “enough?”
One could argue that in terms of trying something new. The hardline approach of Netanyahu and Trump isn’t working either.
I agree with you. I absolutely hate trump and want him removed from office and MAGA to go away. But that said, I too think it's time to try something new. Maybe looking at this as a real estate deal is the better way. It's certainly better than looking at it as a religious deal. If you take religion out of it, then maybe people can get around the idea of moving somewhere else. This wouldn't be like what was done to the American Indians where we took their good land and gave then crap. The Gaza strip is already crap. Entice the people to move for a better life. There will definitely be push back but some will leave and if they leave then others may follow. Something has to change if people want a different outcome. There needs to be a divorce and sorry but the Palestinians have lost and they would need to move out.
The idea of allowing Palestinians to move here is absolutely terrible. Why would we want to introduce a large number of Palestinians into a country that has a large number of Jews. All that fighting that's going on over there would start happening inside our country. No, never, don't even think about it. Give the Palestinians their own area/state/country, that's what they want.
At an individual level, I'm sure that there's plenty of palestinian families who would make perfectly good neighbors, to jews and christians alike. I am not talking about camps or concentrations of populations, at least beyond initial intake. (I grew up in central pa, which processed many Vietnamese refuges in the 70s through Ft. Indiantown Gap, often with local churches as sponsoring organizations.) In my hypothetical, each participating destination nation would still be able to set caps and to apply its normal immigration controls.
Unfortunately, the appetite of many countries to accept more refugees/immigrants is very low.
The following statement by THE_DEVIL is counter to his everyday beliefs and it really sucks typing it.
The only real solution is to with out warning carpet bomb the entire ME with nukes. If that is too harsh then divest ourselves from everyone in the ME. Sure, that seems drastic and all but its all or nothing.
The only real solution is to with out warning carpet bomb the entire ME with nukes. If that is too harsh then divest ourselves from everyone in the ME. Sure, that seems drastic and all but its all or nothing.
Don't sweat it - i'll get my buddy at usaid/dos to set up the round for us. And as to your wife, if there's a problem, we'll send his wife (who we only half-jokingly think is a CIA assassin under cover as a housewife, as she frequently goes on trips to "visit her school friends") to visit your wife.If it happens, you and I are getting a tee time, my treat. I don't care how difficult it is going to be to explain to the wife.
certainly, in the ordinary course. but this is not the ordinary course, and that's where "diplomacy" could come in
