Going Dutch........

[iammrhawkeyes]

Don't know why so many hate them.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/21/europe/driving-lessons-sex-netherlands/index.html

CNN)It brings a whole new meaning to the expression "going Dutch."

Government ministers in the Netherlands have confirmed that it is legal for driving instructors to offer lessons in exchange for sex.

Prostitution is legal and regulated in the country, where sex workers are considered "self-employed" and can openly advertise in newspapers and online.

The Dutch government tackled the issue head on after Gert-Jan Segers, of the socially conservative opposition party ChristenUnie (Christian Union), tabled a question in parliament in November.

Segers described such transactions as "illegal prostitution" and called for them to be banned. He argued that student drivers would not have the requisite escort license, and so would not be declaring any sexual acts for tax purposes.


But Melanie Schultz van Haegen, the country's minister of infrastructure and the environment, and Security and Justice Minister Ard van der Steur said that while the practice -- widely dubbed "ride for a ride" -- may be "undesirable," it is not against the law, provided both parties are over 18 and the instructor suggests it.

They said that if the transaction were reversed, with students proposing "personal services" in return for lessons, then this would be unlawful.


"It's not about offering sexual activities for payment, but offering a driving lesson," the two ministers said in a letter sent to parliament on December 8.

"It is important that the initiative lies with the driving instructor, and focuses on offering lessons, with the payment provided in sexual acts.

"When a sexual act is offered as a commercial business, that is prostitution."

Sentina van der Meer, a press officer for the Ministry of Security and Justice, told CNN: "It is important to know that it is not known as a common phenomenon."

However, little data is publicly available, and a recent investigation by Rotterdam police into so-called "sex exchanges" has not been published.

 

[moral_victory]

Text for people that can hold their head up on their own.

Don't know why so many hate them.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/21/europe/driving-lessons-sex-netherlands/index.html

CNN)It brings a whole new meaning to the expression "going Dutch."

Government ministers in the Netherlands have confirmed that it is legal for driving instructors to offer lessons in exchange for sex.

Prostitution is legal and regulated in the country, where sex workers are considered "self-employed" and can openly advertise in newspapers and online.

The Dutch government tackled the issue head on after Gert-Jan Segers, of the socially conservative opposition party ChristenUnie (Christian Union), tabled a question in parliament in November.

Segers described such transactions as "illegal prostitution" and called for them to be banned. He argued that student drivers would not have the requisite escort license, and so would not be declaring any sexual acts for tax purposes.


But Melanie Schultz van Haegen, the country's minister of infrastructure and the environment, and Security and Justice Minister Ard van der Steur said that while the practice -- widely dubbed "ride for a ride" -- may be "undesirable," it is not against the law, provided both parties are over 18 and the instructor suggests it.

They said that if the transaction were reversed, with students proposing "personal services" in return for lessons, then this would be unlawful.

"It's not about offering sexual activities for payment, but offering a driving lesson," the two ministers said in a letter sent to parliament on December 8.

"It is important that the initiative lies with the driving instructor, and focuses on offering lessons, with the payment provided in sexual acts.

"When a sexual act is offered as a commercial business, that is prostitution."

Sentina van der Meer, a press officer for the Ministry of Security and Justice, told CNN: "It is important to know that it is not known as a common phenomenon."

However, little data is publicly available, and a recent investigation by Rotterdam police into so-called "sex exchanges" has not been published.

 

[iammrhawkeyes]

Text for people that can hold their head up on their own.

Don't know why so many hate them.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/21/europe/driving-lessons-sex-netherlands/index.html

CNN)It brings a whole new meaning to the expression "going Dutch."

Government ministers in the Netherlands have confirmed that it is legal for driving instructors to offer lessons in exchange for sex.

Prostitution is legal and regulated in the country, where sex workers are considered "self-employed" and can openly advertise in newspapers and online.

The Dutch government tackled the issue head on after Gert-Jan Segers, of the socially conservative opposition party ChristenUnie (Christian Union), tabled a question in parliament in November.

Segers described such transactions as "illegal prostitution" and called for them to be banned. He argued that student drivers would not have the requisite escort license, and so would not be declaring any sexual acts for tax purposes.


But Melanie Schultz van Haegen, the country's minister of infrastructure and the environment, and Security and Justice Minister Ard van der Steur said that while the practice -- widely dubbed "ride for a ride" -- may be "undesirable," it is not against the law, provided both parties are over 18 and the instructor suggests it.

They said that if the transaction were reversed, with students proposing "personal services" in return for lessons, then this would be unlawful.

"It's not about offering sexual activities for payment, but offering a driving lesson," the two ministers said in a letter sent to parliament on December 8.

"It is important that the initiative lies with the driving instructor, and focuses on offering lessons, with the payment provided in sexual acts.

"When a sexual act is offered as a commercial business, that is prostitution."

Sentina van der Meer, a press officer for the Ministry of Security and Justice, told CNN: "It is important to know that it is not known as a common phenomenon."

However, little data is publicly available, and a recent investigation by Rotterdam police into so-called "sex exchanges" has not been published.

He likes me! Hugs...

 

[naturalmwa]

There are a few things odd about this story, but the one that stood out to me the most is that the official must ask, the student can't offer. That seems like it should be reversed. If the point of Dutch law is to treat prostitution like any other service for a fee, then shouldn't the person offering the service be the one to initiate? And wouldn't putting the onus on the official who holds all the power in the transaction be coercive in nature?

 

[Funky Bunch]

 

[iammrhawkeyes]

I thought it was hands at 10 and 2?

 

[theIowaHawk]

There are a few things odd about this story, but the one that stood out to me the most is that the official must ask, the student can't offer. That seems like it should be reversed. If the point of Dutch law is to treat prostitution like any other service for a fee, then shouldn't the person offering the service be the one to initiate? And wouldn't putting the onus on the official who holds all the power in the transaction be coercive in nature?

That is exactly what I was going to post: provided both parties are over 18 and the instructor suggests it.

 

[HallofFame]

 

[naturalmwa]

Oh, I totally get it now. You see in the Dutch scenario the student would be driving and the instructor needs to make sure the student can handle the distraction when she offers to blow him instead of charging him for the lesson. That happens right; chicks are always trying to pay guys to let them blow dudes?

 

[theIowaHawk]

That is exactly what I was going to post: provided both parties are over 18 and the instructor suggests it.

Thinking it over again nat, I guess I can see it as a restriction on the solicitation. The student is the one trying to get something for sex, the driver is the one "paying" for the sex. So if solicitation is the bad thing, i.e. actively seeking out the people to pay for your sex, I guess I get it.

The only way you get to that logic is by disregarding what you posted about coercion, which is much easier to do if prostitution is already legal.

 

[naturalmwa]

Thinking it over again nat, I guess I can see it as a restriction on the solicitation. The student is the one trying to get something for sex, the driver is the one "paying" for the sex. So if solicitation is the bad thing, i.e. actively seeking out the people to pay for your sex, I guess I get it.

The only way you get to that logic is by disregarding what you posted about coercion, which is much easier to do if prostitution is already legal.

I can see that point, but I thought the Dutch were cool with solicitation and the goal was to treat sex like any other service. If the student offered to wash the instructor's car I bet that would be legal. Maybe I don't have a real great handle on the thinking behind the Dutch prostitution laws.

 

[joelbc1]

Don't know why so many hate them.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/21/europe/driving-lessons-sex-netherlands/index.html

CNN)It brings a whole new meaning to the expression "going Dutch."

Government ministers in the Netherlands have confirmed that it is legal for driving instructors to offer lessons in exchange for sex.

Prostitution is legal and regulated in the country, where sex workers are considered "self-employed" and can openly advertise in newspapers and online.

The Dutch government tackled the issue head on after Gert-Jan Segers, of the socially conservative opposition party ChristenUnie (Christian Union), tabled a question in parliament in November.

Segers described such transactions as "illegal prostitution" and called for them to be banned. He argued that student drivers would not have the requisite escort license, and so would not be declaring any sexual acts for tax purposes.


But Melanie Schultz van Haegen, the country's minister of infrastructure and the environment, and Security and Justice Minister Ard van der Steur said that while the practice -- widely dubbed "ride for a ride" -- may be "undesirable," it is not against the law, provided both parties are over 18 and the instructor suggests it.

They said that if the transaction were reversed, with students proposing "personal services" in return for lessons, then this would be unlawful.


"It's not about offering sexual activities for payment, but offering a driving lesson," the two ministers said in a letter sent to parliament on December 8.

"It is important that the initiative lies with the driving instructor, and focuses on offering lessons, with the payment provided in sexual acts.

"When a sexual act is offered as a commercial business, that is prostitution."

Sentina van der Meer, a press officer for the Ministry of Security and Justice, told CNN: "It is important to know that it is not known as a common phenomenon."

However, little data is publicly available, and a recent investigation by Rotterdam police into so-called "sex exchanges" has not been published.

THis is why the good folks of Sioux County want tighter immigration laws!

 

[TJ8869]

There are a few things odd about this story, but the one that stood out to me the most is that the official must ask, the student can't offer.

That could make for some really awkward driving lessons if the instructor made an offer and the student was not at all interested.

"This lesson could be free of charge if you give me a hummer.

No?

Okay, then....um....well....make sure your mirrors are adjusted before you put the car in drive."

 

[naturalmwa]

That could make for some really awkward driving lessons if the instructor made an offer and the student was not at all interested.

"This lesson could be free of charge if you give me a hummer.

No?

Okay, then....um....well....make sure your mirrors are adjusted before you put the car in drive."

I wonder if its a common form of currency. Like if you go to a bar and run up a big tab and can't pay, can you just suck off the bartender? Or is it like it is here, you have to flirt with them all night too? I'm having real mixed feelings about this policy.

 

[TJ8869]

I wonder if its a common form of currency. Like if you go to a bar and run up a big tab and can't pay, can you just suck off the bartender? Or is it like it is here, you have to flirt with them all night too? I'm having real mixed feelings about this policy.

It sounds like the bartender would have to be the one to initiate the offer. So, yeah, you'd probably have to do a bit of flirting if he wasn't already on the same page.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

There are a few things odd about this story, but the one that stood out to me the most is that the official must ask, the student can't offer. That seems like it should be reversed. If the point of Dutch law is to treat prostitution like any other service for a fee, then shouldn't the person offering the service be the one to initiate? And wouldn't putting the onus on the official who holds all the power in the transaction be coercive in nature?

I agree with you there.

I'm noting here is that I think the guy who asked the question is correct. If you are making prostitution legal and it's legality hinges upon the prostitutes having a license to practice their craft (which is something I would advocate that we do in the US.) then it stands to reason that a person who doesn't have a license doing this sort of thing should be likely fined for engaging in prostitution without a license.

I suppose you could define prostitution (for licensing purposes) as offering your services to the general public and not offers only to specific people.

 

[Vroom_C14]

Can the instructor ask to take the dirt road?!

 

[theIowaHawk]

I can see that point, but I thought the Dutch were cool with solicitation and the goal was to treat sex like any other service. If the student offered to wash the instructor's car I bet that would be legal. Maybe I don't have a real great handle on the thinking behind the Dutch prostitution laws.

But maybe they just don't like pushy salesman, you can sell your product to people who ask for it, but not the other way around? Damned if I know.

 

[iammrhawkeyes]

Does the gubmint get a percentage of the transaction?