Gunther

[UndercoverHawk]

I personally like Gunther. Because AM hasn't been wrestling lately I feel it's more likely that his shirt isn't pulled. I think Gunther is a grinder and will fair just fine. I think he is a little better than Rhoads. I think Rhoads has him beat on heart though. Rhoads had the most heart on the team last year. Just wondering your thoughts.

 

[rossel 33]

Maybe slightly better than Rhoads, but honestly.... Kelly, Moore, Rhoads, Gunther .... all in the same ballpark, not really expecting points from Gunther in March.

 

[crapman]

What difference does it make to compare Gunther to Rhoads? Rhoads is gone. Gunther is here now and doing a great job so far.

 

[UndercoverHawk]

Maybe slightly better than Rhoads, but honestly.... Kelly, Moore, Rhoads, Gunther .... all in the same ballpark, not really expecting points from Gunther in March.

I'm not expecting more than .5 points from him but some have said we won't qualify without AM and I think that's a bunch of mularkey. But I also have this strange feeling he could put together a regular season like Coops last year and be ranked 14-18

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

I think Gunther is better than Kelly, Moore and Rhoads. He is only a Freshman.

 

[texas twister]

I think Gunther is better than Kelly, Moore and Rhoads. He is only a Freshman.

Is that Moore as in Nick Moore the Big Ten runner up?

 

[wasdt21]

I saw Gunther made the ranking yesterday #16 I think.openmat

 

[TailgateTom]

Is that Moore as in Nick Moore the Big Ten runner up?

If memory serves Derek St. John majored the B10 runner up Colton Salazar his true freshman year at the Midlands. B10 placement isn't necessarily the best metric to use when looking at comparisons, IMO. Not that I think Gunther is better, I can't answer that yet.

 

[24 so far]

If memory serves Derek St. John majored the B10 runner up Colton Salazar his true freshman year at the Midlands. B10 placement isn't necessarily the best metric to use when looking at comparisons, IMO. Not that I think Gunther is better, I can't answer that yet.

Agree 100%.

Gunther's biggest problem will be to have multiple opportunities to attempt to be the Big Ten runner-up with the talent in the room already around him. A problem Nick Moore didn't really have, if memory serves.

 

[ih8iast8]

Is that Moore as in Nick Moore the Big Ten runner up?

How many points at Nationals does the Big Ten runner up score?

 

[wasdt21]

gunthers biggest problem is 165 has 10 or 12 pretty tough guys in it.

 

[IAhawkinTX125]

How many points at Nationals does the Big Ten runner up score?

Historically, I am sure a decent amount. Traditionally, the Big Ten is the best conference at every weight, so if you're able to finish second at the tournament, more times than not, I am sure they go on to All-American.

 

[texas twister]

How many points at Nationals does the Big Ten runner up score?

Often lots and sometimes none. Nick Moore was very good his junior year. Awesome record. Finished runner up to Taylor at Big's. Not sure what happened to him. When he was clicking, he was top 4. No excuses were given; but, I believe he must of had a physical problem. He was a very good wrestler. No need to diss him.

 

[Spicolli]

Often lots and sometimes none. Nick Moore was very good his junior year. Awesome record. Finished runner up to Taylor at Big's. Not sure what happened to him. When he was clicking, he was top 4. No excuses were given; but, I believe he must of had a physical problem. He was a very good wrestler. No need to diss him.

BoJo got 2nd last year, think he got 3rd at Nationals

 

[burk11]

Listen (carefully) to the comments of Coach Brands. He frequently discusses to the work ethic of wrestlers; is the guy in the room and doing the work? Coach Brands is a very straight forward guy, but occasionally his nuanced words/comments implies he likes the progress and development he observes in the room. Coach Gable valued the hard work, and he was frequently rewarded for his devotion to the hard working guy (remember Bruce Kinseth).

 

[Big Fall]

I'm confused on why this is relevant....

 

[JohnBasedow]

I like Gunther a lot. If AM doesn't go this year I think he could score some points. Regardless, I hope he hits the weight room very hard this offseason so he can throw his hat in the ring at 174. I think he has the frame and length for it.

 

[edquinn06]

I like Gunther a lot. If AM doesn't go this year I think he could score some points. Regardless, I hope he hits the weight room very hard this offseason so he can throw his hat in the ring at 174. I think he has the frame and length for it.

I agree with this. With the departure of Paddock we don't have anyone at 74 next year. Not sure Young will be a full size 74 next year. Guess will see. Anyone know what Paddocks plans our?

 

[ih8iast8]

Often lots and sometimes none. Nick Moore was very good his junior year. Awesome record. Finished runner up to Taylor at Big's. Not sure what happened to him. When he was clicking, he was top 4. No excuses were given; but, I believe he must of had a physical problem. He was a very good wrestler. No need to diss him.

My point wasn't to knock Nick. My point was that our individual & Team goals have historically had nothing to do with B1G's. Tom Brands will never boast about how many B1G runner ups we have. Nick for one never wrestled to his potential at NCAA's & I am one of many that to this day are still disappointed by that.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

My point wasn't to knock Nick. My point was that our individual & Team goals have historically had nothing to do with B1G's. Tom Brands will never boast about how many B1G runner ups we have. Nick for one never wrestled to his potential at NCAA's & I am one of many that to this day are still disappointed by that.

I am not disappointed by that. I am disappointed for him.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

Often lots and sometimes none. Nick Moore was very good his junior year. Awesome record. Finished runner up to Taylor at Big's. Not sure what happened to him. When he was clicking, he was top 4. No excuses were given; but, I believe he must of had a physical problem. He was a very good wrestler. No need to diss him.

There was a physical problem and not an insignificant one. There was treatment to relieve the pain that was effective as I understand, but there was still loss of strength that impacted his effectiveness. This was never really advertised or used as an excuse, but there was more to it than most know about.

 

[SPOONER]

There was a physical problem and not an insignificant one. There was treatment to relieve the pain that was effective as I understand, but there was still loss of strength that impacted his effectiveness. This was never really advertised or used as an excuse, but there was more to it than most know about.

Several of us routinely expressed this at the time but it not surprisingly fell on deaf ears.

 

[ih8iast8]

I am not disappointed by that. I am disappointed for him.

That is what I meant. I get enjoyment out of watching these young men work their tails off to reach & exceed their potentials.

 

[4girlsanddad]

There was a physical problem and not an insignificant one. There was treatment to relieve the pain that was effective as I understand, but there was still loss of strength that impacted his effectiveness. This was never really advertised or used as an excuse, but there was more to it than most know about.

How ironic, "no excuses were given"

 

[AFHawk86]

There have been way too many injuries of late that cost Hawk wrestlers a chance at the podium. I realize that's part of life, but it sucks for the athletes and the fans as well.

 

[SPGroth]

Ironside was on KGYM in CR yesterday. Said that they are having AM continue to weigh in for duals to get him used to the one hour weigh in and to make sure that his weight is under control. He is going to wrestle unattached at Midlands, then they will make the decision on his red shirt.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

How ironic, "no excuses were given"

I don't understand what you are getting at.

 

[TailgateTom]

Ironside was on KGYM in CR yesterday. Said that they are having AM continue to weigh in for duals to get him used to the one hour weigh in and to make sure that his weight is under control. He is going to wrestle unattached at Midlands, then they will make the decision on his red shirt.

This is interesting. I take that as he's bigger than '65. We went from feeling like he's undersized at that weight, to him cutting. That's good news!

 

[Sandor45]

This is interesting. I take that as he's bigger than '65. We went from feeling like he's undersized at that weight, to him cutting. That's good news!

My thoughts exactly!
Hopefully he's 100% by Midlands and shows he's the man at 65

 

[edquinn06]

If The Bull goes this year I feel he is our only shot to a spot on the podium at 65. No offense to Gunther, I love how he is wrestling. That being said I feel his best case senerio is 5-8. I just don't see him beating IMart, Jordan, Massa, or Lewis.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I don't understand what you are getting at.

Just a guess from another fan, but I think he was implying that the Iowa coaches and wrestlers are consistent about not making excuses regarding injury. We've had a number of guys' performance on the mat decline due to injury in recent years without any mention of it from within the program until well after the end of the season.

That's a pretty admirable quality for a program to possess, and it's typical of Iowa wrestling. The prevailing attitude is that we're going to come after you and give you all we've got, whether we're 100% healthy or not, and may the best man win. If we come out on the short end, we tip our cap, and nobody in the program is going to cite injury as a reason for the loss, even if it very well may be. No excuses.

Maybe I'm off base, but that's how I took the post, for what it's worth. . . which is probably very little.

 

[el dub]

Ironside was on KGYM in CR yesterday. Said that they are having AM continue to weigh in for duals to get him used to the one hour weigh in and to make sure that his weight is under control. He is going to wrestle unattached at Midlands, then they will make the decision on his red shirt.

So, why has he been on the shelf?

 

[rossel 33]

Just a guess from another fan, but I think he was implying that the Iowa coaches and wrestlers are consistent about not making excuses regarding injury. We've had a number of guys' performance on the mat decline due to injury in recent years without any mention of it from within the program until well after the end of the season.

That's a pretty admirable quality for a program to possess, and it's typical of Iowa wrestling. The prevailing attitude is that we're going to come after you and give you all we've got, whether we're 100% healthy or not, and may the best man win. If we come out on the short end, we tip our cap, and nobody in the program is going to cite injury as a reason for the loss, even if it very well may be. No excuses.

Maybe I'm off base, but that's how I took the post, for what it's worth. . . which is probably very little.

That's the way I see it as well, WWDM.

When McD was getting beat his sr year, many worried that he had some underlying injury, but he never mentioned anything during the season. Of course, there were hyenas on themat forum who told us "everyone else caught up to him" or "he was cutting too much weight."

Then, a few weeks after season ends, he had surgery on his shoulder for a torn labrum.

I don't remember Moore giving any specifics on his health or injuries, but just watching him wrestle his sr year, he seemed to have deteriorated, at times looking like he was in pain. This is purely subjective, as I have no direct knowledge, but I suspect he was wrestling injured (bad
back?).

 

[moug]

That's the way I see it as well, WWDM.

When McD was getting beat his sr year, many worried that he had some underlying injury, but he never mentioned anything during the season. Of course, there were hyenas on themat forum who told us "everyone else caught up to him" or "he was cutting too much weight."

Then, a few weeks after season ends, he had surgery on his shoulder for a torn labrum.

I don't remember Moore giving any specifics on his health or injuries, but just watching him wrestle his sr year, he seemed to have deteriorated, at times looking like he was in pain. This is purely subjective, as I have no direct knowledge, but I suspect he was wrestling injured (bad
back?).

IIRC Mike Evan's mom was on here shortly after the season indicating Moore was injured most of the year. My memory has purged the details but he was held out of some competitions, winced as his hand was raised after winning vs Minnesota and didn't seem to be the same wrestler. All pointed to him not being 100%. I do believe the prevailing opinion/speculation was that it was back related.

 

[Hawk3+1]

Excited to see AM tear into the competition at Midlands! As long as he's 100%- no reason to aggravate his injury if he's not. Any inside info on how he's progressing? How about how he's doing in the room against Gunther, Ryan or Young? That would be a tell tale sign too- if he's dominating against all those guys- he has to be healthy- if not, no reason to rush it.

Go Hawks!

 

[championhawk]

IIRC Mike Evan's mom was on here shortly after the season indicating Moore was injured most of the year. My memory has purged the details but he was held out of some competitions, winced as his hand was raised after winning vs Minnesota and didn't seem to be the same wrestler. All pointed to him not being 100%. I do believe the prevailing opinion/speculation was that it was back related.

He had shoulder surgery after the season. He also wrestled a previous NCAA tourney with a serious injury suffered against Taylor in the Big Ten finals. He is a great kid and was a great Hawk.

 

[Hawk3+1]

Mike was a Hammer! One of our most Dominating wrestlers on top! Ever!
How's he doing now? Still working Freestyle? Hope so- tough tough dude!

 

[HawkTalk3]

Mike was a Hammer! One of our most Dominating wrestlers on top! Ever!
How's he doing now? Still working Freestyle? Hope so- tough tough dude!

Currently training with the HWC. He served as an assistant at Cal Poly for a brief stint

 

[IAhawkinTX125]

First and foremost, I despise this thread, but am curious to know why we are comparing a redshirt freshman to a senior? Not to mention comparing him to others, who people feel didn't meet their full potential? There are numerous accounts as stated above, where wrestlers come in highly touted and don't have similar results in college, but there are also numerous examples of where wrestlers who "underachieved" in high school and come in and have contrary results in college.

Categorizing Gunther this stage in the game shows your lack of appreciation for him stepping up, and your lack of trust in Brands' development of his wrestlers. Will Gunther have better results than the wrestlers listed above? Time will tell. Will Gunther have better results than some of the greats? Time will tell. However, lets not start a self fulfilling prophecy till we see what this young man is capable of. Four more years in the Iowa wrestling room is a long time to grow and achieve his goals.

 

[Jay on HR]

First and foremost, I despise this thread, but am curious to know why we are comparing a redshirt freshman to a senior? Not to mention comparing him to others, who people feel didn't meet their full potential? There are numerous accounts as stated above, where wrestlers come in highly touted and don't have similar results in college, but there are also numerous examples of where wrestlers who "underachieved" in high school and come in and have contrary results in college.

Categorizing Gunther this stage in the game shows your lack of appreciation for him stepping up, and your lack of trust in Brands' development of his wrestlers. Will Gunther have better results than the wrestlers listed above? Time will tell. Will Gunther have better results than some of the greats? Time will tell. However, lets not start a self fulfilling prophecy till we see what this young man is capable of. Four more years in the Iowa wrestling room is a long time to grow and achieve his goals.

I'm not writing of Will Gunther either.