Has the Iowa brand lost its luster?

[Sett1997]

We are to wrestling what OSU, Georgia, Alabama, USC, Etc... are to football.
Yes, I know we are getting some good recruits but should it be this difficult to get more top recruits to Iowa?
We are Iowa!
(No pun intended on the brand word in the title)
Yeah, I know we are always top 3 or so every year but where are our champions?
Spence, but other than him in the last several years.
Since 2010, the last multiple champion year

• 2010: Matt McDonough, 125 pounds; Brent Metcalf, 149 pounds; Jay Borschel, 174 pounds
• 2012: Matt McDonough, 125 pounds
• 2013: Derek St. John, 157 pounds
• 2014: Tony Ramos, 133 pounds
• 2017: Cory Clark, 133 pounds
• 2018: Spencer Lee, 125 pounds
• 2019: Spencer Lee, 125 pounds
• 2021: Spencer Lee, 125 pounds

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

We are

Haven't you all beat this to death?

Iowa fell behind, the field is leveling: new facility, NIL, portal transfers, improved recruiting. Iowa is no longer relying on Gable era cachet. Give it some more time.

 

[sabula]

Yes we have, to a certain degree. Still a major Blueblood, but now along with a few others.

 

[Sett1997]

Haven't you all beat this to death?

Iowa fell behind, the field is leveling: new facility, NIL, portal transfers, improved recruiting. Iowa is no longer relying on Gable era cachet. Give it some more time.

Not my intention, just looking at the lack of champions for a school such as ours. We field an obviously great team but just are lacking the super dominant guys.

 

[sabula]

Not my intention, just looking at the lack of champions for a school such as ours. We field an obviously great team but just are lacking the super dominant guys.

Maybe just one super dominant guy lately... 😉

 

[SPOONER]

Haven't you all beat this to death?

This board is ALL about beating this subject to death. Some people think the more outraged they are on a message board, the more things are likely to change.

 

[Sett1997]

This board is ALL about beating this subject to death. Some people think the more outraged they are on a message board, the more things are likely to change.

I don't see any outrage in my post. Valid question, we have had 4 champions not named Spencer in 12 years. Kids used to knock on our door, now, not so much.

 

[jonesy5960]

We are to wrestling what OSU, Georgia, Alabama, USC, Etc... are to football.
Yes, I know we are getting some good recruits but should it be this difficult to get more top recruits to Iowa?
We are Iowa!
(No pun intended on the brand word in the title)
Yeah, I know we are always top 3 or so every year but where are our champions?
Spence, but other than him in the last several years.
Since 2010, the last multiple champion year

• 2010: Matt McDonough, 125 pounds; Brent Metcalf, 149 pounds; Jay Borschel, 174 pounds
• 2012: Matt McDonough, 125 pounds
• 2013: Derek St. John, 157 pounds
• 2014: Tony Ramos, 133 pounds
• 2017: Cory Clark, 133 pounds
• 2018: Spencer Lee, 125 pounds
• 2019: Spencer Lee, 125 pounds
• 2021: Spencer Lee, 125 pounds

I feel the same way about tight ends.

 

[Gonzo Bloor]

I don't see any outrage in my post. Valid question, we have had 4 champions not named Spencer in 12 years. Kids used to knock on our door, now, not so much.

Maybe they know they just can't block.

 

[TarpHawk]

Everyone agrees on the data.

Everyone has a different opinion about what to do about it...from moving the goal posts ("It's not about winning, it's about cultivating fine young men") to drinking the Kool-Aid ("Brands has a plan! I trust Brands!") to nuclear option ("Fire everyone! Bring in Dake!") to wishful optimism ("Three Ferraris and Stevenson in the lineup!").

Every possible point on the spectrum has been thoroughly covered on this board.

 

[Sett1997]

Everyone agrees on the data.

Everyone has a different opinion about what to do about it...from moving the goal posts ("It's not about winning, it's about cultivating fine young men") to drinking the Kool-Aid ("Brands has a plan! I trust Brands!") to nuclear option ("Fire everyone! Bring in Dake!") to wishful optimism ("Three Ferraris and Stevenson in the lineup!").

Every possible point on the spectrum has been thoroughly covered on this board.

I get it, agreed @TarpHawk. I was just snooping around and didn't realize how few of champions we've had since 2011. I'm sure it has been posted , I just don't remember seeing it. We field top teams but are missing the elite wrestlers.
Other than the legend, Spencer Lee.

 

[OldestandGreatest]

Go to a sold out duel at Carver and tell me the Iowa brand has lost its luster. LMAO. At least we have a brand.

 

[TarpHawk]

I get it, agreed @TarpHawk. I was just snooping around and didn't realize how few of champions we've had since 2011. I'm sure it has been posted , I just don't remember seeing it. We field top teams but are missing the elite wrestlers.
Other than the legend, Spencer Lee.

Yep. Too many Nissans, not enough Ferraris. (Pun intended)

 

[Sett1997]

Go to a sold out duel at Carver and tell me the Iowa brand has lost its luster. LMAO. At least we have a brand.

Apples and Oranges. I know we are all psycho Hawk fans. I'm talking about the allure of wrestling for Iowa from a top recruits viewpoint.
To expand, why wouldn't they want to come and wrestle in front of 15k rabid fans? I don't get it.

 

[OldestandGreatest]

Apples and Oranges. I know we are all psycho Hawk fans. I'm talking about the allure of wrestling for Iowa from a top recruits viewpoint.

You have a pretty narrow definition of a brand. There is a lot that goes into a top recruits choice of school.

 

[Lambertt]

You have a pretty narrow definition of a brand. There is a lot that goes into a top recruits choice of school.

And what would a lot be?

 

[Sett1997]

You have a pretty narrow definition of a brand. There is a lot that goes into a top recruits choice of school.

What is the allure of PSU over Iowa? Cornell? Michigan? Ohio State? We have Olympic champion and world champion coaches. We are a blue blood.
We have the most attendance in all of college wrestling.
My question is, why aren't we getting the elite wrestlers on a consistent basis anymore?

 

[OldestandGreatest]

What is the allure of PSU over Iowa? Cornell? Michigan? Ohio State? We have Olympic champion and world champion coaches. We are a blue blood.
We have the most attendance in all of college wrestling.
My question is, why aren't we getting the elite wrestlers on a consistent basis anymore?

PSU has Carl. Cornell has an ivy league degree. You stumped me on the other two programs though. Sorry for stating the obvious. PSU aside, I think we get our share of the elite recruits.

 

[Inthecircle]

And what would a lot be?

Competition
Coaching
Cost
Comradery
Spirituality
Facilities

 

[Inthecircle]

PSU has Carl. Cornell has an ivy league degree. You stumped me on the other two programs though. Sorry for stating the obvious. PSU aside, I think we get our share of the elite recruits.

Unfortunately we don’t have the track record of developing those top recruits into Champions.
We have had good results at the top 5 weights, however, not good enough for Iowa fans high expectations.

 

[Sett1997]

PSU has Carl. Cornell has an ivy league degree. You stumped me on the other two programs though. Sorry for stating the obvious. PSU aside, I think we get our share of the elite recruits.

What's up with Carl? One time Olympic and one time world? We have Tom, one time Olympic and one time world. Terry Olympic Bronze and two time world.
We are Iowa and we have 4 total NCAA champions other than Spencer since 2011?
You are stumped?
Sorry for stating the obvious. Something is amiss about the program as far as getting top level recruits.

 

[texas twister]

Competition
Coaching
Cost
Comradery
Spirituality
Facilities

Results
Development

 

[Sett1997]

Competition
Coaching
Cost
Comradery
Spirituality
Facilities

This is the answer.

 

[OldestandGreatest]

What's up with Carl? One time Olympic and one time world? We have Tom, one time Olympic and one time world. Terry Olympic Bronze and two time world.
We are Iowa and we have 4 total NCAA champions other than Spencer since 2011?
You are stumped?
Sorry for stating the obvious. Something is amiss about the program as far as getting top level recruits.

Stumped on Michigan and OSU - it was a joke. My point is that there are many reasons for an elite recruit to choose a school beyond just an aggregate amount of NCAA titles. I think our brand (your word) is strong as heck. Sure I agree with you it would be nice to win more titles.

edit- What’s up with Carl? He’s a coaching legend. Nobody currently coaching comes even close to what he’s accomplished. It is what it is.

 

[dtripp26]

I don't see any outrage in my post. Valid question, we have had 4 champions not named Spencer in 12 years. Kids used to knock on our door, now, not so much.

They still knock...but Bobby Telford is the guy that answers the door.

 

[el dub]

Maybe just one super dominant guy lately... 😉

Well, nobody has forgotten that one guy. He stood out from the rest of his teammates.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Nope and it never will. However others will shine brighter at times. You can’t replicate the success of Gable for generations.

But your history is your history , like pictures of your grand kids. Of course they’re awesome but I care more about my granddaughter.

Right now Iowa is a solid top 3-5 and most would love that success . I don’t see them ever doing much worse than that while I’m alive ( 60 in a week or so). The trouble is when you win all the time this level seems a let down.

My way of looking at it is next match , merry, tournament do better if I’m disappointed. The great thing about wrestling is you can cheer the team , the individual, and placements . For example when I was at PSU we had one ncaa title winner. I think he was 118, it was in the 80s btw.

I was stoked to see him win. I knew Iowa couldn’t be beaten back then team wise. 🤷‍♂️

 

[bourbon n blues]

What's up with Carl? One time Olympic and one time world? We have Tom, one time Olympic and one time world. Terry Olympic Bronze and two time world.
We are Iowa and we have 4 total NCAA champions other than Spencer since 2011?
You are stumped?
Sorry for stating the obvious. Something is amiss about the program as far as getting top level recruits.

Maybe Cael is a better coach in a better location?

 

[Hawkgma]

its coaching and recruiting, until we are willing to change we will only get farther from the pack... Don't give me "we just won a couple years ago" crap. That class shouls of won 3-4 NC with multiple National CHamps each year. Our assistant coaches are weak at training and recruiting...

 

[Hawkgma]

Maybe Cael is a better coach in a better location?

this is exactly right... better coach with a better plan for his athletes.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Maybe just one super dom

this is exactly right... better coach with a better plan for his athletes.

The questions that go on in the sport about the wrestling program are similar to the questions I’ve seen about Penn State and the football program for let’s say 30 years now.

Everyone assumes their history is the best, their guys are the best, in their college campus experience is the best. George Paterno, the brother of Joe Paterno made a mention of this kind of attitude, and said the other guy is trying hard too.

It took me close to a generationbtovrealize that Penn State might never win a college national championship again in my lifetime. It’s gotten very hard to navigate the regular season, a conference playoff, then the college playoffs. Now this year Penn State looks like they’re ready to challenge for the college playoffs but they have to get pass both Michigan and Ohio State in their division in the Big Ten.

Teams that some people have somewhere around 2 to 5 in the top 10, it’s just hard to navigate that schedule.

As for Iowa, they will always be a top program. They just might not dominate with team titles yearly.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Doesn't anyone think that threads like this one with posts like #30 do more to help PSU recruiting while hurting Iowa's?

It's wholly counterproductive from a true fan, IMHO. And it makes me suspicious that puppet posters are trolling and exploiting the cesspool.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Doesn't anyone think that threads like this one with posts like the last one do more to help PSU recruiting while hurting Iowa's?

It's wholly counterproductive from a true fan, IMHO. And it makes me suspicious that puppet posters are trolling and exploiting the cesspool.

I don’t think it really matters either way.

 

[bourbon n blues]

A little while back Alabama was playing a Penn State and I remarked to my brother-in-law how Alabama fans just seem so nice and pleasant. He said they’re winning, they’re always like this when they're winning. However, if they start losing they get pretty salty.

No one can continue the highest level of success forever. Wrestling is prone to dynasties but they don’t last. All you can do is keep plugging away.

edit, stupid voice transcription stuff again

 

[natchrlman]

I feel the same way about tight ends.

 

[sabula]

A little while back Alabama was playing a Penn State and I remark to my brother-in-law healthy Alabama fence just seems so nice and pleasant. He said they’re winning, they’re always like this winter winning. However, if they start losing they get pretty salty.

No one can continue the highest level of success forever. Wrestling is prone to dynasties but they don’t last. All you can do is keep plugging away.

Huh?

 

[Inthecircle]

Doesn't anyone think that threads like this one with posts like #30 do more to help PSU recruiting while hurting Iowa's?

It's wholly counterproductive from a true fan, IMHO. And it makes me suspicious that puppet posters are trolling and exploiting the cesspool.

I am not suspicious of puppet posters and trolls. It’s a fact they have ruined this forum. This was the best wrestling forum around 5 years ago and further back. Most of the positive and knowledgeable Iowa posters have left because this board is unmonitored.
In this keyboard warrior world, people post and opine things they would never say to anyone’s face. Recruits who have good guidance aren’t making decisions based on this forum.
Don’t think for a second that TNT aren’t aware of what needs to improve and change. They are making changes the best way they know how. Nobody knows what is going on “inside” the program.

 

[Agoodnap]

A little while back Alabama was playing a Penn State and I remark to my brother-in-law healthy Alabama fence just seems so nice and pleasant. He said they’re winning, they’re always like this winter winning. However, if they start losing they get pretty salty.

No one can continue the highest level of success forever. Wrestling is prone to dynasties but they don’t last. All you can do is keep plugging away.

No, you don't just keep plugging away, you have to identify your weaknesses and make changes to improve. Just plugging away while others have changed is not the way to go.

 

[HawkMachine]

Go to a sold out duel at Carver and tell me the Iowa brand has lost its luster. LMAO. At least we have a brand.

Sorry, but the best of the best would rather be in Rec Hall at the moment.

And "at the moment" has been going on for a decade.

It's going to take a HUGE change to get back on top and hold it.

Different coaching blood would be a good start. I don't really see other options.

 

[Inspiteofourselves]

Sorry, but the best of the best would rather be in Rec Hall at the moment.

And "at the moment" has been going on for a decade.

It's going to take a HUGE change to get back on top and hold it.

Different coaching blood would be a good start. I don't really see other options.

I personally think the new facility being finished and an uptick in the HWC can turn things around. I would wager Arnold and the Ferrari's will lead us to a national title.