Hawks Vs Gophers

[vanhawkman]

My .02

125-Gilman, Gilman, Gilman. Tech on whomever rolls out on the mat for the face smush IA 5-0

133-Clark by a score of 6-0 or close to it. That brace he had on at Nebby is concerning, hoping he's getting healed up. Hoping the Gophers roll out Brancale. IA 8-0
(I'd like to see Gilman go up to 33 and Clark down, just so Gilman can abuse Brancale for the pin from last year)

141-I want to believe in Brody, he'll get the go here, and he looked good against Sabatello, but Thorn has looked pretty good this year, but Abidin did beat him recently. Don't think it matters, Thorn in a close one. IA 8-3

149-BS may not have been putting up the points as of late, but he just wins. Short has always given him a fight, BS starts to widen the gap a little. IA 11-3

157-Cooper gets it done again against Kingsley, close to a major. I'll say major for my Hawks. IA 14-3

165-Rhoads has been there with the top guys. He's not afraid to go toe to toe, but he doesn't go after him. This match will give him some confidence going forward, because by god we need it at this weight. 8-4 Rhoads, IA 17-3

174-Don't care who goes out there against Alex, he wins 4-1. IA 20-3

184-I feel sorry for this Gopher wrestler, Sammy going to be p#@$ed. Tech, IA 25-3

197-Absolutely looking forward to this match! #3 vs. #4! This will show how far Burak has come, as Pfarr has lost to Cox 4-1 at Cliff Keen and McIntosh 3-2 at the Scuffle and that's it. Low scoring, Burak wins 4-3, IA 28-3

Hwt-Another great match. Sam has been on a tear this year, and Kroells with losses to only ranked guys. Sam's hand-fighting is top notch and conditioning is showing up as the season progresses. Close match also, 2-0 Sam IA 31-3

March is coming gentlemen......

 

[jammenz]

Kroells has a history of pinning Stoll in high school. Maybe Big Ben can help Sam get those images out of his head.

 

[CP84]

Kroells has a history of pinning Stoll in high school. Maybe Big Ben can help Sam get those images out of his head.

This is the match I'm looking forward to the most. Stoll seems to be right on the threshold of being an AA. A win here would really give me confidence in his chances to reach the podium this March.

I think the top 5 at this weight are a cut above the rest. That leaves Stoll, Dhesi, Kroells, Dejournette, Dhesi, Hall and Stofli fighting for the remaining 3 places.

 

[#10Hawk]

Kroells has a history of pinning Stoll in high school. Maybe Big Ben can help Sam get those images out of his head.

Stoll has a short memory and will prove it on Friday.

 

[edquinn06]

Jammenz,
You are really fishing for some kind of shining star for this meet. Stoll hasn't wrestled Kroells since 2012 and because he used to pin him then you think 4 years later the outcome will be the same? The only thing a Minnesota fan should be hoping for this meet is to not lose all 10 matches which can very easily happen on Friday.

 

[DonHawkeye]

Seems like Stoll has went away from forcing that Lateral Drop from the over under that has got him in trouble in the past. He doesn't need to be hitting that. I think I saw a match where Kroells pinned him like that in HIGH SCHOOL and that is how he was pinned in Midlands last year. Also seen him get pinned in Greco that way.

I thought the Greco expertise was going to hurt him, but it is perfect for a big HWT like him. No one wants to tie up with him and no one wants to shoot on him. He has been pretty solid on bottom as well.

Coming into this year I thought no way he would be the type of guy that would get the best of guys of Kroell's caliber. I have to say I think he is a notch above guys of Kroell's caliber.

 

[WildTurk]

Kroells has a history of pinning Stoll in high school. Maybe Big Ben can help Sam get those images out of his head.

Since you are here and will continue to lurk this thread would you mind giving us your honest prediction for this dual?

 

[jammenz]

125) Gilman dec...... 0-3
133) Clark maj .........0-7
141) Thorn dec.........3-7
149) Sorensen dec ..3-10
157) Kingsley pin......9-10
165) Krone dec.........12-10
174) Meyer dec..........12-13
184) Brooks tech.......12-18
197) Pfarr dec...........15-18
hvy) Kroells pin.... .....21-18

Krone is out so we need another pin somewhere. Maybe Brancale is ready to debut at 125?

 

[Jackhawk87]

125) Gilman dec...... 0-3
133) Clark maj .........0-7
141) Thorn dec.........3-7
149) Sorensen dec ..3-10
157) Kingsley pin......9-10
165) Krone dec.........12-10
174) Meyer dec..........12-13
184) Brooks tech.......12-18
197) Pfarr dec...........15-18
hvy) Kroells pin.... .....21-18

I love the fact that you still have a sense of humor about the season.

 

[whejoe]

125) Gilman dec...... 0-3
133) Clark maj .........0-7
141) Thorn dec.........3-7
149) Sorensen dec ..3-10
157) Kingsley pin......9-10
165) Krone dec.........12-10
174) Meyer dec..........12-13
184) Brooks tech.......12-18
197) Pfarr dec...........15-18
hvy) Kroells pin.... .....21-18

I would not be shocked if Kingsley pinned Cooper.

 

[#10Hawk]

125) Gilman dec...... 0-3
133) Clark maj .........0-7
141) Thorn dec.........3-7
149) Sorensen dec ..3-10
157) Kingsley pin......9-10
165) Krone dec.........12-10
174) Meyer dec..........12-13
184) Brooks tech.......12-18
197) Pfarr dec...........15-18
hvy) Kroells pin.... .....21-18

It's good to have dreams

 

[lookleft goright]

If Minny does beat the Hawks then that in itself should shut up every critic that says the dual team format is the best way to determine the National Championship. Because there is no way in h#ll Minny is anywhere near as good as the Hawks, but the scenario above, although unlikely, is possible and Minny could win.
PS I would not bet a nickel on Minny winning this dual, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

 

[ChloeDancer]

Kroells has a history of pinning Stoll in high school. Maybe Big Ben can help Sam get those images out of his head.

How did Shorts HS results vs Sorensen play out in college?

Also the PU kid Meyer beat tech'd Wanzek 18-2. Hope Meyer can show some offense at least.

 

[wasdt21]

wturk I think the answer to your question is no.

 

[artradley]

If Minny does beat the Hawks then that in itself should shut up every critic that says the dual team format is the best way to determine the National Championship. Because there is no way in h#ll Minny is anywhere near as good as the Hawks, but the scenario above, although unlikely, is possible and Minny could win.
PS I would not bet a nickel on Minny winning this dual, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

I don't follow your logic. If a team wins how are they not better? Is there some fundamental flaw in the way dual meets are scored? Tournaments are won by a handful of studs. Dual meets are won by teams that are strong at all ten weights. So between a good tournament team and a good dual team, by what metric of "good" is the tournament team clearly superior?

As much as I love the Nationals, the scoring is so arbitrary I've never felt it tells you who has the best team.

 

[Lsanders20]

I would not be shocked if Kingsley pinned Cooper.

I don't remember Cooper getting pinned this year. Why would someone of Kingsley caliber pin Ed? Ed is getting better every week and if the confidence keeps getting better he could make some noise in March. I think this will be a very entertaining match actually.

 

[ih8iast8]

Kroells has a history of pinning Stoll in high school. Maybe Big Ben can help Sam get those images out of his head.

I have a feeling you are spot on, just like you were predicting that Lambert had a chance against Gilman.

 

[sloehawk]

I have a feeling you are spot on, just like you were predicting that Lambert had a chance against Gilman.

Well, to be fair he did, right up to the point when the match started.

 

[MitchL]

Jammenz,
You are really fishing for some kind of shining star for this meet. Stoll hasn't wrestled Kroells since 2012 and because he used to pin him then you think 4 years later the outcome will be the same? The only think a Minnesota fan should be hoping for this meet is to not lose all 10 matches which can very easily happen on Friday.

I have predicted a shutout for the last month and I haven't seen anything recently to change my mind. The fact that this is in IC makes me think this is going to get ugly... real fast. There is no way in hell Minny wins 4 matches. They'd need to win all perceived "tossup" matches, and that hardly ever happens.

 

[LutherAce]

I don't follow your logic. If a team wins how are they not better? Is there some fundamental flaw in the way dual meets are scored? Tournaments are won by a handful of studs. Dual meets are won by teams that are strong at all ten weights. So between a good tournament team and a good dual team, by what metric of "good" is the tournament team clearly superior?

As much as I love the Nationals, the scoring is so arbitrary I've never felt it tells you who has the best team.

4 Falls in a dual beat out 6 dec wins...i'm not saying it's broken, but when you can win a dual without winning all of the matches, there is some minor headscratching...

 

[jammenz]

"They'd need to win all perceived "tossup" matches, and that hardly ever happens."

Until it does.

 

[MitchL]

"They'd need to win all perceived "tossup" matches, and that hardly ever happens."

Until it does.

If this was held in Minny's arena, there might be a chance for 141/157/165/197 all going the way of the Gophers. In CHA... nope!

 

[sloehawk]

I would not be shocked if Kingsley pinned Cooper.

Nick Moore wrestled 3 Gophers last year. Beat Krone 16-4. Stuck Kingsley. Stuck Wanzek. Yes, that Nick Moore. Cooper may not be the Gopher Killer Nick Moore was, but Moore wasn't Metcalf either.

So don't be shocked if Kingsley pins Cooper, and equally don't be shocked if Cooper pins Kingsley.

 

[MitchL]

Nick Moore wrestled 3 Gophers last year. Beat Krone 16-4. Stuck Kingsley. Stuck Wanzek. Yes, that Nick Moore. Cooper may not be the Gopher Killer Nick Moore was, but Moore wasn't Metcalf either.

So don't be shocked if Kingsley pins Cooper, and equally don't be shocked if Cooper pins Kingsley.

I'll go to my grave wondering whatever happened to Moore's career! At the end, it just looked like he was burned out, injured, didn't care OR all of the above.

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

4 Falls in a dual beat out 6 dec wins...i'm not saying it's broken, but when you can win a dual without winning all of the matches, there is some minor headscratching...

Don't even need that extreme. How about 2 falls/1 dec/1 maj beating 6 dec. Can you imagine a team starting a dual off with 2 falls and a major then knowing with 7 matches left all they need to do is eek out 1 and avoid bonus in the others to win?

 

[SPOONER]

As much as I love the Nationals, the scoring is so arbitrary I've never felt it tells you who has the best team.

What exactly is "arbitrary" about the scoring at nationals? Seems to follow some pretty basic logic to me.

 

[SPOONER]

4 Falls in a dual beat out 6 dec wins...i'm not saying it's broken, but when you can win a dual without winning all of the matches, there is some minor headscratching...

So you don't think additional points should be earned by a wrestler who exerts superiority over his opponent?

That's a very strange point of view.

 

[sloehawk]

Don't even need that extreme. How about 2 falls/1 dec/1 maj beating 6 dec. Can you imagine a team starting a dual off with 2 falls and a major then knowing with 7 matches left all they need to do is eek out 1 and avoid bonus in the others to win?

Well, them's the rules, and they're the same for everybody so......

 

[crablegs1]

4 Falls in a dual beat out 6 dec wins...i'm not saying it's broken, but when you can win a dual without winning all of the matches, there is some minor headscratching...

Couldn't the same be said about nationals? Is a team with 3 champs and no other AAs really better than a team with 6 guys placing 7/8?

 

[SPOONER]

I enjoy that fans of a team that lost to Indiana thinks--with a straight face--that they will win in CHA.

 

[artradley]

4 Falls in a dual beat out 6 dec wins...i'm not saying it's broken, but when you can win a dual without winning all of the matches, there is some minor headscratching...

How would you score duals to make it more reasonable?

 

[artradley]

What exactly is "arbitrary" about the scoring at nationals? Seems to follow some pretty basic logic to me.

It can be logical but still arbitrary. There's one point difference between 7th and 8th, but two points difference between 6th and 7th. This continues until 1st and 2nd, when there's a 4 point difference. And 16 itself is an arbitrary number for first place. Could be 8. Could have been 20.

 

[bravehawks1]

It can be logical but still arbitrary. There's one point difference between 7th and 8th, but two points difference between 6th and 7th. This continues until 1st and 2nd, when there's a 4 point difference. And 16 itself is an arbitrary number for first place. Could be 8. Could have been 20.

Under that dumb logic, first should be 71.3377 points.

 

[Lsanders20]

Couldn't the same be said about nationals? Is a team with 3 champs and no other AAs really better than a team with 6 guys placing 7/8?

Yes.

 

[artradley]

Under that dumb logic, first should be 71.3377 points.

What logic? All I did was describe the scoring system.

 

[grappler6]

All sports are arbitrary rules.

 

[Azchief32]

"They'd need to win all perceived "tossup" matches, and that hardly ever happens."

Until it does.

Two weeks in a row you've been on here predicting gloom and doom. Are you going to jump on another team's bandwagon when Minne doesn't get it done?

Indiana-Jammenz once had a steak in in the same restaurant as Bobby Knight=Indiana is going to beat Iowa in wrestling

Montana St-Jammenz once went on an expedition to catch and capture Bigfoot in the mountains of Montana=Montana St is going to beat Iowa in wrestling

 

[The catman]

Hey, easy up on the Bigfoot hunt. It could happen, and minny might show up with a pet unicorn. I think we better just pump the brakes a couple times and hide and watch. Some here are pretty sure the these killer gophers been playin' possum.

 

[LutherAce]

How would you score duals to make it more reasonable?

So i realize i should have said win majority of matches, not all of matches...

but i also said that i don't think it's broken, but as mentioned already, seems pretty arbitrary. Look at the old Nascar point system for real headscratching...

 

[texas twister]

4 Falls in a dual beat out 6 dec wins...i'm not saying it's broken, but when you can win a dual without winning all of the matches, there is some minor headscratching...

So glad you corrected yourself. I was scratching my head over this one.