Hayden Vs Kirk who is the better coach?

[Cowboy4262]

so you are happy with the 2 losses for every 3 wins? not exactly something to write home about.

you were happy with the last 11 years of his up and down (mostly down) seasons?

again, Fry would have been blasted for his last 11 years on these message boards had they existed. No question about it.

Ok, so now you're going to pick the last 10 years where his last year was his worst. And we all know he lost most all of his great coaches by then.

So you're happy with the last 8 years? And KF hasn't really lost coaches, he's had to fire his coaches...one season going to a Rosebowl and losing and getting smoked in the other bowls but 2? See I can do this too? So they both won 2 Bowl games in their last 10...see facts work

Love how you nitpick yourself here and complain about the same thing.

P.S. didn't need message boards for fans not being happy with Hayden. It's not about anything other than which coach do you believe was better?!!!

 

[Wadzinator]

Doesn't matter to me both are well respected and stable ran tight ships 2 coaches 40 years I'm proud of this program

 

[Franisdaman]

Ok, so now you're going to pick the last 10 years where his last year was his worst. And we all know he lost most all of his great coaches by then.

So you're happy with the last 8 years? And KF hasn't really lost coaches, he's had to fire his coaches...one season going to a Rosebowl and losing and getting smoked in the other bowls but 2? See I can do this too? So they both won 2 Bowl games in their last 10...see facts work

Love how you nitpick yourself here and complain about the same thing.

P.S. didn't need message boards for fans not being happy with Hayden. It's not about anything other than which coach do you believe was better?!!!

Kirk has lost coaches and had to replace them, too. That's part of being a head coach. Good point, though. I guess you would agree that Kirk was better at finding replacements to his original staff. Imagine if Hayden was as good? Maybe Hayden's last 11 years would not have been so up and down. Maybe if Hayden had known when to hang it up he would not have handed off the program in such lousy shape.

Kirk's Year 20 is going to be a lot better than Hayden's year 20; I can guarantee you that.

Hayden lost every BCS equivalent bowl. Kirk won one. Advantage Kirk.

The point of all of this is that neither Fry nor Kirk were perfect during their 20 years.

Some of you have selective memories. You remember the good and forget the bad when it comes to Hayden.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Kirk has lost coaches and had to replace them, too. That's part of being a head coach. Good point, though. I guess you would agree that Kirk was better at finding replacements to his original staff. Imagine if Hayden was as good? Maybe Hayden's last 11 years would not have been so up and down. Maybe if Hayden had known when to hang it up he would not have handed off the program in such lousy shape.

Kirk's Year 20 is going to be a lot better than Hayden's year 20; I can guarantee you that.

Hayden lost every BCS equivalent bowl. Kirk won one. Advantage Kirk.

The point of all of this is that neither Fry nor Kirk were perfect during their 20 years.

Some of you have selective memories. You remember the good and forget the bad when it comes to Hayden.

Holy hell are you aggressive in your attempts to discredit Fry. I am sure you are happy with essentially the same record that you are throwing out against Fry. Great work on your part if you are trying to show your jackwagon side. It's okay to appreciate both coaches. Some will elevate one or the other, it's okay, let it be.

 

[WhoaNellieCy]

Holy hell are you aggressive in your attempts to discredit Fry. I am sure you are happy with essentially the same record that you are throwing out against Fry. Great work on your part if you are trying to show your jackwagon side. It's okay to appreciate both coaches. Some will elevate one or the other, it's okay, let it be.

Ya, i agree, not sure what his deal is. Im not even an iowa fan, but man you have to honor and respect what ol Hayden did.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Ya, i agree, not sure what his deal is. Im not even an iowa fan, but man you have to honor and respect what ol Hayden did.

Jeebus Fran you have da cyclone miss speller agreein wit me. Stop da insanity

 

[WhoaNellieCy]

Jeebus Fran you have da cyclone miss speller agreein wit me. Stop da insanity

Ya, lol hope you notice da irony, ie franis "da" man, lol

 

[cidhawkeye]

Ya, lol hope you notice da irony, ie franis "da" man, lol

Uss da same person?

 

[Frank Cannon]

Remember the article Hlas had years ago talking about KF's record as a double digit favorite.....KF had light years more losses than anyone else in the Big 10. Hayden VERY SELDOM lost to doormats, and usually kicked the S out of them scoring 50+ points.....he did not play to win in the last possession like the overpaid and
and overrated KF does.

 

[Franisdaman]

Holy hell are you aggressive in your attempts to discredit Fry. I am sure you are happy with essentially the same record that you are throwing out against Fry. Great work on your part if you are trying to show your jackwagon side. It's okay to appreciate both coaches. Some will elevate one or the other, it's okay, let it be.

Since when are the facts a form of discrediting?

 

[cidhawkeye]

Since when are the facts a form of discrediting?

I don't see you throwing them out quite as consistently when they apply to KF. Which ones only apply to Fry? It's already been shown that KF inherited a better roster than Fry did, one took over a program that was in the midst of a historical non winning season streak and changed that. Oops those are facts that are conveniently left unsaid by you for the most part. You attempt to put things in time frames like ISU or Debby fans do to reflect your position. I get it, just be honest about what your doing Eddie Haskell.

 

[Thunderlips71]

Hayden’s brand of football was much more exciting and he didn’t coach scared, nor did he repeatedly lose as a double-digit favorite.

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

Hayden had a vision that Kirk knows nothing about. He had the spread offense going in 1979. People act like it’s new today.

I won't argue who was better. I wouldn't call HF spread and shoot. Our fullback used to average 60 - 80 carries a season under Fry. That sound like run and shoot to you?

 

[HawkIDrummer]

Holy hell are you aggressive in your attempts to discredit Fry. I am sure you are happy with essentially the same record that you are throwing out against Fry. Great work on your part if you are trying to show your jackwagon side. It's okay to appreciate both coaches. Some will elevate one or the other, it's okay, let it be.

Yeah, I dunno what Fran's deal it. He really has it in for Hayden.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Yeah, I dunno what Fran's deal it. He really has it in for Hayden.

And then attempts to say he doesn't. Own your opinion.

 

[Cowboy4262]

Since when are the facts a form of discrediting?

I bet your loving this game man! You man KF and company is really doing a great job coaching against NW...but you will say, hey NW sucked then and they are a lot better this year..especially at 5-4 they will win the West. I'm seeing this KF coached 1-2 yard pass play coaching staff as really a great staff

 

[Franisdaman]

I don't see you throwing them out quite as consistently when they apply to KF. Which ones only apply to Fry? It's already been shown that KF inherited a better roster than Fry did, one took over a program that was in the midst of a historical non winning season streak and changed that. Oops those are facts that are conveniently left unsaid by you for the most part. You attempt to put things in time frames like ISU or Debby fans do to reflect your position. I get it, just be honest about what your doing Eddie Haskell.

So you are fine that Fry lost 2 games for every 3 games he won? KF, of course, gets hammered on this board for losing 2 games for every 3 he has won.

You are fine with these records over Fry's last 11 years?

6-4-3: 1988
5-6-0: 1989
5-7-0: 1992
6-6-0: 1993
5-5-1: 1994
8-4-0: 1995
9-3-0: 1996
7-5-0: 1997
3-8-0: 1998

KF, of course, gets hammered on this board for a bad season record wise.

You can spin things any way you want but Hayden's last 11 years were unacceptable by today's message board standards.

.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

.

Hey Fran. Haven't seen you post today. Curious why....

 

[Franisdaman]

Hey Fran. Haven't seen you post today. Curious why....

i was preparing my team for green bay. what the hell did you accomplish today?

 

[HawkIDrummer]

i was preparing my team for green bay. what the hell did you accomplish today?

I had a great day, Charlie. What the hell are you doing here...if you really have an NFL job? In a few staff meeting where somebody said there were tired of being compared to Hayden? or when the IOWA QBs were strugging? Ah yes...the Christensen era...

It's starting to come into focus now.

 

[cidhawkeye]

So you are fine that Fry lost 2 games for every 3 games he won? KF, of course, gets hammered on this board for losing 2 games for every 3 he has won.

You are fine with these records over Fry's last 11 years?

6-4-3: 1988
5-6-0: 1989
5-7-0: 1992
6-6-0: 1993
5-5-1: 1994
8-4-0: 1995
9-3-0: 1996
7-5-0: 1997
3-8-0: 1998

KF, of course, gets hammered on this board for a bad season record wise.

You can spin things any way you want but Hayden's last 11 years were unacceptable by today's message board standards.

.

Keep banging the drum, your anti Fry bias is clear. Good thing that the spread dropped below 10 so KF wouldn't have to answer for ANOTHER outright loss as a double digit favorite, this time it was just 9. How many times did Fry lose as a double digit favorite?

 

[Franisdaman]

I had a great day, Charlie. What the hell are you doing here...if you really have an NFL job? In a few staff meeting where somebody said there were tired of being compared to Hayden? or when the IOWA QBs were strugging? Ah yes...the Christensen era...

It's starting to come into focus now.

I am Fran. The man. Who coaches Iowa basketball.

You idiot!!!!

 

[Franisdaman]

Keep banging the drum, your anti Fry bias is clear. Good thing that the spread dropped below 10 so KF wouldn't have to answer for ANOTHER outright loss as a double digit favorite, this time it was just 9. How many times did Fry lose as a double digit favorite?

Look at the thread topics currently on the board.

If this message board had been around in 1988 the thread titles regarding Fry would have been just as bad.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Look at the thread topics currently on the board.

If this message board had been around in 1988 the thread titles regarding Fry would have been just as bad.

The year they finished 4th in the conference (not division), ahead of a ranked team and Ohio State? The year they tied the #4 ranked team in the country? Had 2 first team all Americans? That year. I am sure there would have been some grumbling like you see today. Not sure what your point is. If my Aunt had balls she would be my uncle so..... that applies about as much.

 

[JerNHawk]

Id probably go with Kirk.Hayden was a little rough around the edges. Kirk has a similar decorum to Dr Tom.

Kirk also coached during a tougher era in Big Ten football.

Thoughts?

Give me the coach that isn't afraid to put his foot on the opponent's throat and toss the ball deep, even when the score is 56-21 against little brother. Hayden Fry easily.

 

[Urohawk]

What I loved about Hayden was that you never ever knew what he was going to do on the field. KF is much more predictable.

May be....there were a lot of off tackle left and off tackle right plays when we were 3rd and long during the final Hayden years. I used to go to Halloween games dressed as Hayden Fry. Carried a clip board with off tackle right on it and had people guess the play call. They were correct more than average number of times.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

I am Fran. The man. Who coaches Iowa basketball.

You idiot!!!!

LOL, perfect avatar. That's for sure

 

[texhawk88]

Hayden is a hall of famer and an Iowa legend.

However, Hayden had a lot of down years, which people seem to have forgotten about.

After 1985, when Iowa was ranked number one in the country, you would think that Hayden would have consistently won at least eight games per season. He failed. Big time. Just like Kirk has failed to consistently win 8 or more games every year.

The internet had not been invented back then, either. Hayden would have not handled the message boards and all of the social media noise. Hell, he had enough problems with criticism coming out of physical newspapers.

Hayden left the program in a mess. Look at the facility improvements under Kirk. I am pretty confident that Kirk will leave the program in a much better place than what Hayden did. And that's significant in my opinion.

This proves my philosophy that coaches should not be at the same school more than 10 years. The game seems to pass coaches by at year 11. Same thing here. Program becomes stale and predictable and the game passes you by.

There are exceptions, but in a middle of the road school like Iowa where being in the top half is good enough, it is a failing equation.

 

[Franisdaman]

The year they finished 4th in the conference (not division), ahead of a ranked team and Ohio State? The year they tied the #4 ranked team in the country? Had 2 first team all Americans? That year. I am sure there would have been some grumbling like you see today. Not sure what your point is. If my Aunt had balls she would be my uncle so..... that applies about as much.

that all would not have been good enough per today's message board standards. we should have won all the games that Hayden tied or lost.

and what does your masculine aunt have to do with this?

 

[cidhawkeye]

that all would not have been good enough per today's message board standards. we should have won all the games that Hayden tied or lost.

and what does your masculine aunt have to do with this?

It's as applicable as whether there were message boards or not. We get it, you have a burr in your saddle about Hayden. He did better as a double digit favorite than KF does, but then again every team in the BIG is better than KF.

 

[Franisdaman]

It's as applicable as whether there were message boards or not. We get it, you have a burr in your saddle about Hayden. He did better as a double digit favorite than KF does, but then again every team in the BIG is better than KF.

I don't have anything against Hayden. I just acknowledge that while he did a lot of Iowa, he also lost a lot of games and he got blown out in 3 Rose Bowls.

Kirk at least won a BCS level bowl game; Hayden never won a BCS level bowl game. But of course no one brings that up because we have to stay focused on bitching about KF and ignoring the negatives about Hayden.

I saw both coaches in action. They have totally different personalities but Kirk and Hayden are more similar than you think. And both, in the end, lost 2 games for every 3 they won. Nevertheless, Hayden is in the Hall of Fame. Many think Kirk should be as well. But what do you do? You constantly bitch about Kirk and you don't acknowledge Hayden's flaws.

Why don't you acknowledge the 3 embarrassing Rose Bowl blow outs? Or the many bad seasons under Fry? Or the many, many losses under Fry? Why don't you acknowledge that he did not know when to walk away? Instead, he left a year too late and he left a mess for KF to clean up. For some reason, your memory is foggy and you picture Fry as something more perfect than he actually was. .

 

[JoelBittner]

Hayden gave us Kirk as his heir
Kirk gave us Brian

Soooo HOFamer Hayden gave us a HOFamer successor
Anyone want to predict Brian's HOF future?

 

[Wscbb21]

I have not read through all of the posts to see if this information is duplicated but by far Fry was the better coach. Ferentz is 10-1 against 1aa schools. Fry only scheduled 1aa school games three times and that was UNI. Ferentz record against mid majors and 1aa is something like 34-3. Fry always played Big 8 teams and then rotated other games against PAC-10, ACC, SEC and WAC. Nebraska, Kansas state, NC State, The Miami, Oklahoma, etc. he did play Norther Illinois a few times but looks like the worst teams non conference wise we’re Hawaii and Tulsa. If you want to look at this google the words Hayden Frys record versus opponents. No question Fry pulled us out of the depths and did so playing tougher competition year in and year out.

 

[cidhawkeye]

I don't have anything against Hayden. I just acknowledge that while he did a lot of Iowa, he also lost a lot of games and he got blown out in 3 Rose Bowls.

Kirk at least won a BCS level bowl game; Hayden never won a BCS level bowl game. But of course no one brings that up because we have to stay focused on bitching about KF and ignoring the negatives about Hayden.

I saw both coaches in action. They have totally different personalities but Kirk and Hayden are more similar than you think. And both, in the end, lost 2 games for every 3 they won. Nevertheless, Hayden is in the Hall of Fame. Many think Kirk should be as well. But what do you do? You constantly bitch about Kirk and you don't acknowledge Hayden's flaws.

Why don't you acknowledge the 3 embarrassing Rose Bowl blow outs? Or the many bad seasons under Fry? Or the many, many losses under Fry? Why don't you acknowledge that he did not know when to walk away? Instead, he left a year too late and he left a mess for KF to clean up. For some reason, your memory is foggy and you picture Fry as something more perfect than he actually was. .

You have me confused with someone. I don't actively complain about KF. Forget about the Rose Bowls? I was there so tough to forget. I just respond to your incessant attacks on someone who you allegedly 'have nothing against' feel free to start your KF bashing because they are statistically the same coach. One is HOF, the other probably won't make it due to a change in criteria.

 

[Wscbb21]

Not the same. One played a much more difficult schedule year in and year out. If Fry played a 1aa every year and two mid majors he would have played in a lot more Top tier BCS bowls.

 

[WhoaNellieCy]

I don't have anything against Hayden. I just acknowledge that while he did a lot of Iowa, he also lost a lot of games and he got blown out in 3 Rose Bowls.

Kirk at least won a BCS level bowl game; Hayden never won a BCS level bowl game. But of course no one brings that up because we have to stay focused on bitching about KF and ignoring the negatives about Hayden.

I saw both coaches in action. They have totally different personalities but Kirk and Hayden are more similar than you think. And both, in the end, lost 2 games for every 3 they won. Nevertheless, Hayden is in the Hall of Fame. Many think Kirk should be as well. But what do you do? You constantly bitch about Kirk and you don't acknowledge Hayden's flaws.

Why don't you acknowledge the 3 embarrassing Rose Bowl blow outs? Or the many bad seasons under Fry? Or the many, many losses under Fry? Why don't you acknowledge that he did not know when to walk away? Instead, he left a year too late and he left a mess for KF to clean up. For some reason, your memory is foggy and you picture Fry as something more perfect than he actually was. .

Ya, I must say, you sound like a "glass is half-empty" kind of fella. Here's some other hawkeyes you may want to critique, Dan Gable, Bump Elliot, Forrest Evasveksi, Nike Kinnick, etc. I'm sure they also didn't a live up to your expectations either. lol

 

[Franisdaman]

You have me confused with someone. I don't actively complain about KF. Forget about the Rose Bowls? I was there so tough to forget. I just respond to your incessant attacks on someone who you allegedly 'have nothing against' feel free to start your KF bashing because they are statistically the same coach. One is HOF, the other probably won't make it due to a change in criteria.

i don't consider it attacks.

isn't it the truth he lost 2 games for every 3 games he won?

isn't it true he got blown out in 3 Rose Bowls?

nevertheless, Fry is in the Hall of Fame. many say KF is a hall of famer.

but guess what? KF gets destroyed on here after every loss. My opinion? Fry would have gotten destroyed on here, too, if this message board was around during Fry's last 11 years at Iowa.

 

[cidhawkeye]

i don't consider it attacks.
You would a party of one with this statement.



isn't it the truth he lost 2 games for every 3 games he won?
It is, similar to KF with a tougher slate of games

isn't it true he got blown out in 3 Rose Bowls?
It is, similar to KF.


nevertheless, Fry is in the Hall of Fame. many say KF is a hall of famer.
The people putting KF in the hall of fame don't understand what he would need to do to get into the hall of fame. They really don't know what they are talking about. They generally as a group don't listen when those facts are pointed out to them.

but guess what? KF gets destroyed on here after every loss. My opinion? Fry would have gotten destroyed on here, too, if this message board was around during Fry's last 11 years at Iowa.

I think he would of as well. Not sure why you incessantly feel compelled to point it out. I think Bob Commings, Lauterbur, Burns, Nagel, Evy would have as well. Their players wouldn't have been as big or fast as well. Start attacking that. Hayden had better attendance as a %, does that offend you as well?

 

[scotthawk1964]

Really percentage wise, Kirk and Hayden are not much different. Hayden stayed a couple years to long, and it is looking like Kirk might be staying a little long as well. Of course, Hayden's last season Iowa finished 3-8, Kirk hasn't quite slipped to that point quite yet or every Hawk fan everywhere would be calling for a coaching change.

 

[hawkifann]

Only a millennial would say KF was coaching in a tougher era! lol...there was Bo at Michigan, Woody at OSU, MSU was tough, Illinois had Mike White...Purdue was ranked high then...so the era then was as tough

I grew up in that era. Northwestern and Wisconsin were total zeroes. MSU was occasionally tough. Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota and Purdue were mixed bags.