He is who he always was.

[Raglefant]

No, Trump has been horrible and bears much of the blame.

Where State and local leadership has been poor, they should take responsibility for their own actions or inaction.

Why is this controversial?

So you think that the proper strategy for the President to take was to hope every mayor in America would take it upon themselves to enact prior administration's pandemic response protocols while simultaneously undermining the seriousness of the pandemic and actively promoting actions that contradicted those very protocols? All while ranting about taking responsibility for your own actions? Ugh... why do I ever hit show ignored content.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

So you think that the proper strategy for the President to take was to hope every mayor in America would take it upon themselves to enact prior administration's pandemic response protocols while simultaneously undermining the seriousness of the pandemic and actively promoting actions that contradicted those very protocols? All while ranting about taking responsibility for your own actions? Ugh... why do I ever hit show ignored content.

That's a lot of words to say "I will not hold any Democrat accountable."

 

[mnole03]

Is your position that Cuomo forcing old folks homes to take coronavirus patients is Trump's fault?

My position is that it was an incredibly stupid decision that everything else being constant would have killed a lot of people. While enormously ill-advised, given the other factors in nursing homes (sick staff going untested and residents violating quarantine), it’s unclear how much damage it actually did.

 

[mooresville hawk]

Tell me, why did New York have such a horrid response to this virus? Being a liberal haven, run by liberals?

This ought to be good.

I do not think that this is a Republican versus Democrat issue. The problem has been that Trump has not listened to his advisors and put out a unified message stressing the importance of taking this virus seriously. I understand that the message was changing early on as we learned more about this virus.

It would have helped to have had the President giving honest updates with the help of his advisors or letting his advisors do the talking. It also would have helped to have had the President say in the beginning that he would do whatever needed to be done to help the individual states get the PPE that they needed.

Trump is too afraid of looking weak by not having the answers. He has continually tried to downplay the virus, which has made him look foolish. He says he will eventually be right though, which is all that matters to some people.

 

[naturalmwa]

The virus wouldn’t have even made it out of China had Trump not dismantled our early warning and mitigation programs. Trump unleashed the virus on the world. And every Trump supporter is culpable.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

The virus wouldn’t have even made it out of China had Trump not dismantled our early warning and mitigation programs. Trump unleashed the virus on the world.

Did @ottumwan in tx get ahold of your login info?

So it was Trump who made the WHO tell the world in the middle of February that the virus was not airborne? Damn he is crafty that one!

 

[mnole03]

The virus wouldn’t have even made it out of China had Trump not dismantled our early warning and mitigation programs. Trump unleashed the virus on the world. And every Trump supporter is culpable.

It was coming here no matter what. The CDC wouldn’t have stopped the spread to Korea and then to LA. The New York outbreak came from Europe.

We should be honest about how bad this would have been no matter who the President was.

But we could have slowed it with testing and PPE. We’ve seen how much better our results are the more time we have to study this and learn better protocols. We burned a month and weren’t prepared when it got here.

It was clear there was community spread in February. Korea went parabolic February 20th.

 

[Rudolph]

Tell me, why did New York have such a horrid response to this virus? Being a liberal haven, run by liberals?

This ought to be good.

Lol. The response, all things considered, is laudable given the circumstances of NYC. NYC presents high likelihood of quick spread and spike regardless. It flattened the curve about as well as can be expected. And so far, so good being on the backside of the curve. Too bad the rest of the country’s graph doesn’t look like that of NYC.

It’s also too bad you’re viewing this through such an idiotic lens: liberal vs conservative city. As though that’s the entirety of a city, or even matters. Cities are incredibly complex both contemporaneously and historically. And here’s the thing that’s truly weird about your response—who cares what letter is next to Hillary’s name? The fact remains that, independent of her political affiliation, she is a health care wonk going on forty years now. I think it is fair to assume this would have served her well in responding to this challenge.

Mitt Romney’s experience in the health care policy space likely would have served him well, too. There, feel better now?

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

It was coming here no matter what. The CDC wouldn’t have stopped the spread to Korea and then to LA. The New York outbreak came from Europe.

We should be honest about how bad this would have been no matter who was President. The CDC in China would have given us a head start on PPE and protocols. We wasted so much time and could have done such a better job getting organized.

It was clear there was community spread in February. Korea went parabolic February 20th.

Hey enough with the facts. @naturalmwa has conspiracies to peddle.

 

[naturalmwa]

It was coming here no matter what. The CDC wouldn’t have stopped the spread to Korea and then to LA. The New York outbreak came from Europe.

We should be honest about how bad this would have been no matter who was President. The CDC in China would have given us a head start on PPE and protocols. We wasted so much time and could have done such a better job getting organized.

It was clear there was community spread in February. Korea went parabolic February 20th.

We should be honest about how much damage Trump did.

 

[naturalmwa]

Hey enough with the facts. @naturalmwa has conspiracies to peddle.

Truth is truth. Learn to face up to reality.

 

[Rudolph]

Hey enough with the facts. @naturalmwa has conspiracies to peddle.

And you’re a colossal goof, peddling colossal goofness.

 

[mnole03]

We should be honest about how much damage Trump did.

I am. I think our response wasn’t good. Better leadership would have saved a lot of lives.

But our present situation is largely on us. I hate Trump, but Trump isn’t forcing people to be selfish and stupid. They’re doing it in the UK, too. It’s incredibly sad that we would need more restrictive laws than anywhere else in the world to get people to do the right thing.

 

[naturalmwa]

I am. I think our response wasn’t good. Better leadership would have saved a lot of lives.

But our present situation is largely on us. I hate Trump, but Trump isn’t forcing people to be selfish and stupid. They’re doing it in the UK, too. It’s incredibly sad that we would need more restrictive laws than anywhere else to get people to do the right thing.

We aren’t discussing the present situation. We are discussing the start of the problem which all occurred in the context of Trump disarming us.

 

[mnole03]

We aren’t discussing the present situation. We are discussing the start of the problem which all occurred in the context of Trump disarming us.

And I agree pulling the CDC out of China was stupid. Pretending this wasn’t a real threat in an effort to protect the stock market was beyond the pale. We were unprepared and it cost tens of thousands of lives.

I point out the present to acknowledge that with all we know now and all of our resources, we still have more than 70k new cases and a thousand deaths a day.

 

[mooresville hawk]

We aren’t discussing the present situation. We are discussing the start of the problem which all occurred in the context of Trump disarming us.

That may be the case, but it is not going to help us moving forward. Trump was not responsible for the virus or it coming to America. He is responsible for the poor response and lack of preparedness though. We need to come to agreement about how to move forward to overcome this virus or at least live with it. Trump mandating that the schools and businesses open across the United States is not helping. He should not have dismantled the task force. They should be taking the lead in our response. That is what a true leader would do, rather than try to take credit for everything himself.

 

[naturalmwa]

That may be the case, but it is not going to help us moving forward. Trump was not responsible for the virus or it coming to America. He is responsible for the poor response and lack of preparedness though. We need to come to agreement about how to move forward to overcome this virus or at least live with it. Trump mandating that the schools and businesses open across the United States is not helping. He should not have dismantled the task force. They should be taking the lead in our response. That is what a true leader would do, rather than try to take credit for everything himself.

I don’t grant that. With the precautions we had deployed in China, it’s reasonable to believe we might have caught and sequestered this virus before it spread. It’s reasonable to blame Trump for the entire pandemic. It’s important we learn that lesson because there will be another pandemic.

 

[mnole03]

I don’t grant that. With the precautions we had deployed in China, it’s reasonable to believe we might have caught and sequestered this virus before it spread. It’s reasonable to blame Trump for the entire pandemic. It’s important we learn that lesson because there will be another pandemic.

I can’t imagine any world where the PRC would allow us to take action on Chinese soil. It’s like when the Kursk sank and the Russians let them die rather than let us help. That’s just who they are.

The CDC would have given us more reliable intel for sure, but even now we’re still learning about the virus.

 

[naturalmwa]

I can’t imagine any world where the PRC would allow us to take action on Chinese soil. It’s like when the Kursk sank and the Russians let them die rather than let us help.

We were already there and embedded. So that world existed until Trump voters tore it down.

 

[mnole03]

We were already there and embedded. So that world existed until Trump voters tore it down.

Embedded sure, but we also had a consulate in Wuhan where the Chinese violated every international law imaginable to make sure we weren’t taking anything out of the country.

 

[naturalmwa]

Embedded sure, but we also had a consulate in Wuhan where the Chinese violated every international law imaginable to make sure we weren’t taking anything out of the country.

By that time we had disarmed.

 

[RileyHawk]

Trump shut down travel from China and liberals called him xenophobic.

Cuomo and NY are responsible for NY's actions. They could have stopped travel, they chose not to. They could have put GWB/Obama's pandemic response protocols into action, they chose not to. That is on them.

No amount of deflecting blame will change any of that. I know that Liberals hate taking responsibility for their own actions but this is not complicated.

Trump didn't shut down travel from China - 40,000 people came in after the shutdown. He half-assed that and paid no attention to other entry points like NY. This was a national crisis that needed a national response and Trump failed miserably. There's no blame to deflect - it lands on him and his woeful lack of character and leadership.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

I don’t grant that. With the precautions we had deployed in China, it’s reasonable to believe we might have caught and sequestered this virus before it spread. It’s reasonable to blame Trump for the entire pandemic. It’s important we learn that lesson because there will be another pandemic.

Not when the Chinese government knew about the virus for 8 weeks before shutting down their international airport to 20 destinations. Having people in their country wouldn't have been able to force their airport in Wuhan province to shut down. I don't blame you for your ignorance or naivete. I wish these things were as simplistic as you all want it to be too. "Orange man bad!"

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Trump didn't shut down travel from China - 40,000 people came in after the shutdown. He half-assed that and paid no attention to other entry points like NY. This was a national crisis that needed a national response and Trump failed miserably. There's no blame to deflect - it lands on him and his woeful lack of character and leadership.

Oh really? Well then why did the Democrats scream "Xenophobe!" if he didn't shutdown travel? Did some people who didn't fall under the shutdown guidelines come in? Yes. Was he trying to put some distance between the US and the outbreak center? Yes. Did Democrats criticize him anyways? Yes.

"Orange man bad!"

 

[naturalmwa]

Not when the Chinese government knew about the virus for 8 weeks before shutting down their international airport to 20 destinations. Having people in their country wouldn't have been able to force their airport in Wuhan province to shut down. I don't blame you for your ignorance or naivete. I wish these things were as simplistic as you all want it to be too. "Orange man bad!"

I don’t grant this either. Having people there would have meant we and the rest of the world knew about it at the same time China did. We wouldn’t need China to shut down their airports if we aren’t accepting their planes.

 

[RileyHawk]

Oh really? Well then why did the Democrats scream "Xenophobe!" if he didn't shutdown travel? Did some people who didn't fall under the shutdown guidelines come in? Yes. Was he trying to put some distance between the US and the outbreak center? Yes. Did Democrats criticize him anyways? Yes.

"Orange man bad!"

40,000 of them came in. Great shutdown.

Or are you saying he didn't shut things down as he should have because he was being criticized? Either way it's his failure. And yours for defending it.

 

[cidhawkeye]

I don’t grant this either. Having people there would have meant we and the rest of the world knew about it at the same time China did. We wouldn’t need China to shut down their airports if we aren’t accepting their planes.

That is definitely how international relations play out.