Help answer a question

[terrehawk]

Nearly 10 years ago an old single fellow that my wife and i were friends with retired.(she worked with him and he and i would have an occasional drink.)

He was moving to another part of the country and didnt want to take most of his stuff with him as he was going to travel light and travel frequently and work part time jobs consulting.

He had some really cool stuff. A nice bar, some sports memorabilia and some other cool furniture. He basically said he wanted us to have it because he thought we would use it and I asked him how much he wanted for it and he said if he ever needed the money he would let me know but just wanted us to enjoy it. We had a pretty new, big house with a full basement that it helped fill.

We stayed in touch periodically and little over a year ago he let me know that he was kind of sick and wanted me to send him some cash each month. So i set it up to automatically send a check each month.

I got a random email today from a guy saying he was his son (i believe him) that my friend had passed away last week. It went on with a kind of cryptic message that he wanted me to pay him for the items.

What do you think? Do i owe the son? From our conversations he had a couple kids but hadn't spoken much to them over the years and I got the impression that they had kind of disowned him. So I don't know what to think.

I had paid my friend around $1,000 and dont really know what all the stuff was worth. Maybe 6-8k?? Just a guess

 

[HawkBlocked]

It's probably worth consulting a lawyer on this one. In my opinion, you don't owe the kids anything. But I don't know the law, so I could be wrong.

Sorry for the loss of your friend, also.

 

[Roy-munson]

Nearly 10 years ago an old single fellow that my wife and i were friends with retired.(she worked with him and he and i would have an occasional drink.)

He was moving to another part of the country and didnt want to take most of his stuff with him as he was going to travel light and travel frequently and work part time jobs consulting.

He had some really cool stuff. A nice bar, some sports memorabilia and some other cool furniture. He basically said he wanted us to have it because he thought we would use it and I asked him how much he wanted for it and he said if he ever needed the money he would let me know but just wanted us to enjoy it.

We stayed in touch periodically and about 16 months ago he let me know that he was kind of sick and wanted me to send him some cash each month. So i set it up to automatically send a check each month.

I got a random email today from a guy saying he was his son (i believe him) that my friend had passed away last week. It went on with a kind of cryptic message that he wanted me to pay him for the items.

What do you think? Do i owe the son? From our conversations he had a couple kids but hadn't spoken much to them over the years and I got the impression that they had kind of disowned him. So I don't know what to think.

I had paid my friend less than $1,000 and dont really know what all the stuff was worthg. Maybe 6-8k?? Just a guess

No the agreement was with you and your friend. Not you and his son.. it was also a verbal agreement, the son has no leverage on you. i assume the son knows about the stuff but doesn't know the value.. I wouldn't worry about it.. especially if they really had a falling out.. kid may be looking for a pay day

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

Would you have gone out and spent 8K on this stuff? I'd give him what it's worth to you, minus what you paid or tell the kid to come and get it.

 

[Roy-munson]

Would you have gone out and spent 8K on this stuff? I'd give him what it's worth to you, minus what you paid or tell the kid to come and get it.

If the kid wants it back I'd ask for 10 years of storage fees.. the kid has no right to the stuff.. the dad sold it to him.. not the son

 

[BABiscuit]

Could go a number of ways. Hard to say who technically had ownership based on what you described. You can always tell the guy no and he can come get it.

 

[The Tradition]

Screw this guy. Charge him storage fees and then see if he wants the stuff.

 

[ThorneStockton]

How much is he asking for? Certainly shouldn't pay very much if anything.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

I would tell the kid you paid one grand for the stuff and that's it, debt paid

 

[Pepperman]

I'm not sure the kid has any argument here.

 

[artradley]

When you say $6k to $8k; is that replacement cost, or what you think it's worth now? If that's replacement cost, then the stuff can't be worth more than $1,000 now; and I'd tell the kid you've already paid for it.

If you think it's worth that much now, then it must have been some very nice stuff -- perhaps $30k new? I'd offer the kid half of the depreciated value ($6k to $8k), less the $1,000 you already sent. So perhaps offer $3000? Legally he probably doesn't have much claim, but the arrangement clearly wasn't a no-strings-attached gift; so the right thing to do would be to give the kid something for what should have been his inheritance.

 

[TJ8869]

Did the guy have a will?

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

I'd make certain he was actually a son before I did anything, but then consult an attorney.

 

[Monzon]

My thought are, if the dad wanted the kid to have it, he would have given it to him initially. If the kid wanted it bad enough, he would have had that discussion years ago.

Also, are there other kids or beneficiaries possible? Few things will break up a family more quickly than attempting to divide the belongings of a loved one.

 

[ping72]

Possession is 9/10 of the law. You've had it for years and you've sent payments for it.

Not to mention, you said he has several sons; unless his will specifies that specific son gets everything, you might not be paying the right person.

 

[JWolf74]

Screw that kid. You made an agreement with the owner.

 

[Rifler]

If it were me I would want to try to do the right thing here but first off I would need proof that....
1. The guy was dead.
2. This kid was a legal heir.
3. All other legal heirs had been identified.
I would tell the kid that if the estate's lawyer were to draw up an invoice requesting payment you would consider it. I would also ask them to be specific as to what they thought the value of this merchandise was. If you don't like the bill, tell them to come pick the stuff up, less a $1,000 worth of items which you have already paid for. I would not make any payments directly to this kid.

P/S
You're lucky this guy kicked fairly early into your monthly payment process. Once you start something like that it's hard to cut it off. You could have gotten nicked for bunch....

 

[The_Joker13]

If it were me I would want to try to do the right thing here but first off I would need proof that....
1. The guy was dead.
2. This kid was a legal heir.
3. All other legal heirs had been identified.
I would tell the kid that if the estate's lawyer were to draw up an invoice requesting payment you would consider it. I would also ask them to be specific as to what they thought the value of this merchandise was. If you don't like the bill, tell them to come pick the stuff up, less a $1,000 worth of items which you have already paid for. I would not make any payments directly to this kid.

P/S
You're lucky this guy kicked fairly early into your monthly payment process. Once you start something like that it's hard to cut it off. You could have gotten nicked for bunch....

I think this is pretty good advice.

 

[iahawks10]

Could go a number of ways. Hard to say who technically had ownership based on what you described. You can always tell the guy no and he can come get it.

Agree with this.

If the son ever does show up to collect the items (and is a dick), hit him storage fees.

If the son has been decent, I would give him the items out of respect for your friend. Minus $1000 worth of items.

 

[lucas80]

If it were me I would want to try to do the right thing here but first off I would need proof that....
1. The guy was dead.
2. This kid was a legal heir.
3. All other legal heirs had been identified.
I would tell the kid that if the estate's lawyer were to draw up an invoice requesting payment you would consider it. I would also ask them to be specific as to what they thought the value of this merchandise was. If you don't like the bill, tell them to come pick the stuff up, less a $1,000 worth of items which you have already paid for. I would not make any payments directly to this kid.

P/S
You're lucky this guy kicked fairly early into your monthly payment process. Once you start something like that it's hard to cut it off. You could have gotten nicked for bunch....

#3 is critical. Tell the emailer you will only deal with the executor of the estate.
This is really a touchy one. I can see the argument that there was only an oral agreement with out specificity that ended with the passing of the older gentleman. But, if there are legitimate heirs my Iowa values tell me if there was a promise made about reimbursement later on, then the person in possession of the items should make an offer to the estate.

 

[HawkFantastic]

Also, find out if if he's got sisters and get pics.

 

[Joes Place]

If it were me I would want to try to do the right thing here but first off I would need proof that....
1. The guy was dead.
2. This kid was a legal heir.
3. All other legal heirs had been identified.
I would tell the kid that if the estate's lawyer were to draw up an invoice requesting payment you would consider it. I would also ask them to be specific as to what they thought the value of this merchandise was. If you don't like the bill, tell them to come pick the stuff up, less a $1,000 worth of items which you have already paid for. I would not make any payments directly to this kid.

P/S
You're lucky this guy kicked fairly early into your monthly payment process. Once you start something like that it's hard to cut it off. You could have gotten nicked for bunch....

If this was your friend, then why dick over his family? Unless he specifically DIDN'T want his kid or kids to have his stuff (perhaps they were also far away and not convenient to ship stuff off to).

Essentially the stuff was legally 'gifted' to you, and likely well within 'gift tax' limits for you to owe any taxes or anything on it.

If the son is a decent guy and acts respectfully, I'd hand over the stuff to him and simply ask for the donations back from the estate you'd paid to your friend - especially if you have cancelled checks; if you enjoyed use of the stuff, it makes zero sense for you to claim any 'storage charges'. You got free rent/use of it (and maybe that was worth the money you'd sent, that's up to you). If the kid is being a complete jackass, maybe you just tell him to go away. I don't see any legal liability for you on something that was essentially a 'gift' and there is no paperwork for it.

 

[MissouriHawkeye]

I thought sure this was going to end up with the old guy asking to nail your wife.

 

[Herkmeister]

Had the kids ever seen the stuff? If not, how do they even know what's there?

Here's what I'd do if they've seen his goods.

1. I'd be a gentleman and call the son. (It is the respectful thing to do and you'll be glad you did in the memory of your friend.)
   
2. I'd ask him what his dad told him because you considered it a gift.
3. See what he says and if he appears to be a good guy, jerk, or nut case
   
4. Then I'd say you sought a legal opinion. (This is true. You just sought the legal advice from a bunch of meat heads on HROT. You never mentioned a lawyer.)
5. Tell him that it's your understanding that if he claims ownership you will be obligated to bill him for storage fees. You feel bad about that but it's the advice you have.
6. You might also remind him that many things have depreciated in the last 10 years.

Pretty bold of the kid, but typical.