Historian Ken Burns weighs in on the Confederacy and race (title changed)
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Holy shyte...I really didn't think you would try to sanitize the history of lynching yet here you are. Not exclusive to any location? You have to be the biggest dumbass I've ever interacted with.
Now...tell us AGAIN how lynchings aren't representative of southern heritage, dumbass. As for my pride in being from NC...that pride doesn't preclude me from acknowledging that awful things occurred in the south that know NO equal in other parts of the country. Your complete self-absorption certainly manifests itself in your inability to do the same. Try turning your gaze outward for a change. Might learn something.
New York City draft riots- 1863
Is this "Northern Heritage?"
There have been acts of terror committed by Americans. By your rather idiotic metric, that makes us the equal of Iran.
Of course, you probably do believe that.
Holy shyte...I really didn't think you would try to sanitize the history of lynching yet here you are. Not exclusive to any location? You have to be the biggest dumbass I've ever interacted with.
Now...tell us AGAIN how lynchings aren't representative of southern heritage, dumbass. As for my pride in being from NC...that pride doesn't preclude me from acknowledging that awful things occurred in the south that know NO equal in other parts of the country. Your complete self-absorption certainly manifests itself in your inability to do the same. Try turning your gaze outward for a change. Might learn something.
Thank you. I knew it wasn't exclusive to the South. I knew it before your map proved it's not exclusive to the South. Is it more prevalent in the deep South? Apparently. I said it wasn't exclusive to the South... and, it's not. Your map proves it.
You don't deserve any pride in any location.
"Biggest dumbass?"... all of these accolades and and it's only a Monday!
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Yeah, I believe that we are equal. I don't believe that the USA is superior to any other country. I don't believe any other country is superior to us. I don't believe the North is superior to the South. Nor East superior to the West.
Any other questions?
No...you've demonstrated your stupidity sufficiently at this point. Go live in North Korea and send your wife, daughter, mother to Afghanistan where women are killed for trying to go to school and then tell me all countries are equal. Until you actually do that, your claim is as full of shyte as you are.
Better yet, go to inner city Detroit, wave a Confederate flag, yell, "Ni**er" repeatedly, then explain that YOU'RE not a racist so those symbols are meaningless. Make sure someone has a camera on you.
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Strum,
You beat me to it.
"Somehow, these terms evolved until the nickname Tar Heel was used to refer to residents of North Carolina and gained prominence during the American Civil War. During this time, the nickname Tar Heel was a pejorative, but starting around 1865, the term began to be used as a source of pride.[1]"
You beat me to it.
"Somehow, these terms evolved until the nickname Tar Heel was used to refer to residents of North Carolina and gained prominence during the American Civil War. During this time, the nickname Tar Heel was a pejorative, but starting around 1865, the term began to be used as a source of pride.[1]"
"Another story comes from the Civil War. A group of North Carolina soldiers scolded their comrades for leaving the battlefield when things got tough. The soldiers threatened to stick tar on the heels of the retreating soldiers to help them stay in the battle. General Robert E. Lee is said to have commented “God bless the Tar Heel boys!” Whatever the reason for the moniker, our students and sports teams have long worn it with pride."
From the official UNC website
http://www.unc.edu/about/history-and-traditions/whats-a-tar-heel/
From the official UNC website
http://www.unc.edu/about/history-and-traditions/whats-a-tar-heel/
The name comes from the tar, pitch, and turpentine industry that was widespread and long predates the Civil War.
to repay whitey for slavery, we just made the whites slaves to the system, as well as blacks and everyone else in this country. slaves to DC. very nice.
The CFB was raised above Southern State Capitols for the centennial of the start of the civil war. Of course South Carolina had the battle flag in its Capitol chambers decades before the civil rights movement. That doesn't stop revisionists from claiming there were other motives. Idiots even claim FL and Alabama's flags have racist motivation despite the fact that neither were modeled after the CFB.
You can't have it both ways. The Term Tar Heel gained its prominence during the civil war. Own it, or put your money were your mouth is and change your moniker.
"
But when, beyond doubt, did the term Tar Heel begin to be applied to North Carolinians? Clearly during the Civil War, in the third volume of Webster Clark's "Histories of the Several Regiments from North Carolina in the Great War, 1861-1865," published in 1901, James M. Ray of Asheville records two incidents in 1863 that suggest the nickname's original application. "
http://www.mrtarheel.com/tarheelorigin.html
But when, beyond doubt, did the term Tar Heel begin to be applied to North Carolinians? Clearly during the Civil War, in the third volume of Webster Clark's "Histories of the Several Regiments from North Carolina in the Great War, 1861-1865," published in 1901, James M. Ray of Asheville records two incidents in 1863 that suggest the nickname's original application. "
http://www.mrtarheel.com/tarheelorigin.html
The term Tar Heel predates the Civil War...that others tried to recast it as a pejorative is kinda the opposite of what you want to do with the flag.
Orrrrrr....it came about in the Revolutionary War....orrrrrrr it came about due to NC's reluctance to secede....orrrrr ALL those stories are apochryphal and it's origin is based in NC's enormous naval stores industry.
See... I knew you had it in you! When you're cast as something you're really not, based on some subjective meaning of a word/symbol/term that you're aligned with or choose to be associated with, you have no reservations emphasizing the positive aspect of the word/symbol in question. Like it or not, Tar Heel has very firm origins, or at least iconic association, to the Civil War and North Carolina's participation in it on the side of the Confederacy.It doesn't make you racist for using it. It doesn't mean Tar Heel is as equally associated with the South or Slavery as the Rebel Flag. But, now we're just talking about matters of degree. In fact, we've ALWAYS been talking about matters of degree.
When I was a kid, growing up in Nash County, I asked an old guy that was a huge Wolfpack fan "What's a Tar Heel?" he said, without hesitation, "It makes you stick in a fight when a Yankee shows up, but run from a wolf and leave those black footprints!"... and laughed.
No idea what you're talking about....except perhaps trying to claim another "win". The term Tar Heel predates the Civil War. It has no connection to the issues of slavery, secession, or rebellion. It isn't racist in any way whatsoever. The term North Carolina was in use before the Civil War, as well. That troops fought under that name doesn't make the term racist. The flag, on the other hand, is expressly tied to rebellion and the defense of slavery. It doesn't exist absent that history.
I'm hardly surprised you can't see the difference. Are you posting from NK, yet?
The Confederate battle flag was flown for soldiers, including black soldiers, who were defending their homeland against an invading force. The overwhelming vast majority of these soldiers did not own slaves and were not fighting for the right to do so.
See... I knew you had it in you. You're doing great! I agree with you Tar Heel, as a term, is not racist. It has been associated with people that were fighting to defend Slavery, but it doesn't make a person, who uses it now, a racist. In fact, the TERM itself didn't make a person racist back then either. What made them racist was thinking they were superior to Africans merely because they weren't African. The cloth, the words, the terms, the club names, the sides, the directions on the map, are just scenery.
And, sorry, I'm still in the South. And, no, I still don't think we're superior to other cultures or countries, even if I don't agree with everything they do. I wouldn't encourage people in our culture to emulate the things they do that I don't like or agree with. I don't think they should feel superior to us either. But neither is superior, or "better" than the other... just different. For a liberal, you're not very rooted in equality. I knew you didn't have that in you, too.
I forgot. That part of your post is actually a complete lie. I think there is ample evidence to the contrary posted in the thread here. But, it does show how committed you are to clearing the implication that you could be racist merely by the association of a term that could be, or has been, or even is potentially racist.
Great entertainment!!! Thanks boyz. You Tarheels are vicious to each other.
Quick note, when strumming first came on the board I always just assumed it was THBB with a different name. I'm either right and they guy is putting on a hell of a show or I'm completely out of my element. After this thread I'm leaning towards the latter.
Quick note, when strumming first came on the board I always just assumed it was THBB with a different name. I'm either right and they guy is putting on a hell of a show or I'm completely out of my element. After this thread I'm leaning towards the latter.
That clearly demonstrates the depth of your ingrained rationalizations and striking inability to evaluate reality. Apparently.
That map proves your point? ORLY. Let me follow that, so any state that had 1 lynching has the same racial history as many states that had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of lynchings? If there is 1, the prevalence of lynchings is irrelevant, because.....f it, never mind. What a buffoon.
Time to move on tarheel, you done good. Kiting and this fool have been clearly outed for what they truly are, and the stark caricature of pseudo post-racists they have drawn may well allow others to identify such racism in others, or even themselves.
Enjoyed and related to your story about your grandfather, I'll give you a similar one from my past. My Grandmother was born in 1888 and lived 103 years in rural southern Iowa. Awesome woman beloved by many due to her huge heart of gold, would do anything for anybody that needed assistance. My sister (older of course, hee hee) graduated from the University of South Alabama and her first job was teaching at Sumner High School in Kansas City, which in her first year was still the black high school. Aside: Pursuant to Court ordered integration (KC MO had one of the longer cases of supervision) it became a talented and gifted school in her second year, 1979 I think.
Anyway, sister at Thanksgiving in her first year is telling a story about one of her students. Grandma observes that "they are almost like people, aren't they?" I suspect it is the same as with your Grandfather, product of her experience and times and if she knew or was exposed to other ethnicities yada yada yada.
You're frequently misquoting me and you seem to be predisposed to not retaining/comprehending my entire posts/replies. I never shared any story of my grandfather in this thread. You can't even keep the posters straight that you're replying to on here. That doesn't bode well at all.
I said, in reference to lynchings and acts of violence, that they were not EXCLUSIVE to the South. Exclusive, to me, usually means absolute, restricted or limited to. I said that lynchings (and racist behavior in general), is not exclusive to the South. That means NOT EXCLUSIVE, not limited to, the South. His map gave proof that it was not. If you think, or are implying, that there are NO racists in Iowa, simply because enough backward, ignorant racists didn't get together and hang an innocent person, then you're the one who is immersed in rationalization. Now, were there more of them in the South? Absolutely. There were more black people in the South, The South is where MOST of the Civil War was fought and where the impact was felt the deepest. However, there was and is abundant racial prejudice in the North, South East and West. I don't know how to measure it, except that I know humans are predisposed to feeling superior to one another. As long as that superiority is in place, there will always be pre-judgment... prejudice.
I am well aware of the injustices and acts of violence done to blacks and people who tried to help them since the end of the Civil War, in the Old South. I've lived my life here. I see it every day. I'm not pleased at all about that aspect of our entire nation's history. That is one reason I don't look at the Stars and Stripes and immediately feel like I am looking at Liberty, or Freedom, or Justice, or any of that other BS. Those attributes are not embodied in a piece of cloth to me.
I will share a story about my great grandfather now. My great-grandfather had a cross burned on his lawn and driven from his home for "shacking-up with a n*gger." This was probably around 1910/1915 in rural eastern SC. They eventually killed him and his "n*gger." So, I'm quite familiar with the horrible things that ignorant racists are capable of doing. I also know that they exist on every street of every neighborhood of every town of every state of every country. As long as there are PEOPLE on the streets, that is. I try to NOT emulate that behavior by trying my best to be humble and not feel superior to others for any reason. It's a struggle, but I try every day.
pseudo post-racists? And, a "stark caricature" of one at that?
WTF are you talking about? Do you really know, or are you just putting words together that you think sound cool?
Good story. The funny thing is my mom's dad was 180 degrees the opposite of my dad's dad and they grew up in neighboring towns...so close to each other that they shared a Main Street and eventually consolidated. He ran a mill for the Morehead's (of UNC fame) back in the Depression and he caught more than a little hell for hiring black people when there were whites looking for jobs but he said he was looking for the best workers. My mom, in high school, worked in the office and she said a guy came in one day asking if there was work. Pappy was sitting at his desk, dropped the corner of his newspaper, and drawled, "Ain't nobody died lately" and disappeared back behind the paper. When he died, the black community lined up for blocks to file through the parlor and pay their respects. My mom was a champion of civil rights and my dad...whatever he might have been I'll never know because he never challenged my mom on that. I'll never forget how she cried when Dr. King was killed.
He was talking to me at that point. Work on your reading comprehension. And if you really think about "pseudo post-racist" you might puzzle it out.
Love to buy you a beer sometime.
Interesting to watch the evolution of attitudes through generations, at a certain age a perspective develops . Starkest (oops, clearest, most-well defined) example is gay rights, my daughter and her friends have a hard time even comprehending, much less adopting, the homophobia that was so prevalent when I was their age. Tried to have a discussion with a group of them one time and it was hilarious; What evs old man, people are what they are, silly shit ain't relevant in our world or something we care to waste our time discussing, can you go upstairs now? Was awesome. I do believe a similar process is under way with racism, but much more difficult process for a myriad of reasons.
Suspect you would join me in disclaiming any claim of moral superiority while pointing out the kinds of things we have been discussing in this thread. For me anyway, it is more a sense of gratefulness that my education and experiences led me to a certain set of beliefs and understanding. Played basketball in college so had African-American roommate and many friends and one summer sister got me a job as a counselor at an all black (correction, 209 out of 212 youths in the program were of color) YMCA in KC. Saw what my buddies went through, and saw that group of kids was the same as all other groups of kids, and became a pseudo post-racist to be honest; loudly and proudly proclaiming it was primarily a problem of exposure.
But that ingrained shit lives deep, and uses the same brain we do. First got that about myself with the first impression topic, what do you first think when you see.... Really got it after my daughter was born and somebody when discussing the topic was like "so you are ok with your daughter marrying a black?" Um, um, um, um, sure. That cognitive dissonance lived in me till I met her African-American friend Ben, awesome kid and I'm like marry him! lol.
Having the reaction and walking it back in your head and moving on without acting on it is not the same as not having the reaction in the first place. Former is as good as many of us can do given the deeply ingrained shit, the latter is what Dr. King really meant, imo.
Thanks for the discussion, if you ever get to a home Hawk game you have a place to stay and a free beer. I'm out, have to go fight for truth, justice, and the American way.
