Historical Rankings college Wrestling
- Thread starter sunshinedynomite
- Start date
Wouldn't his bonus point percentage and 2nd all time in NCAA scoring have any merit? (If he wins this year at his current projection), 2 or 3 Hodge Trophies as well. I think you're wrong IMO.
I think the 5 losses and being pinned override bonus point percentages. I didn’t equate Hodge trophies as well because they are just a “most popular wrestler award” in many cases. He’s an incredible wrestler and exciting to watch but has a few too many losses to be rated so highly. IMHO
He has 1 more loss than Dake. Who didn’t have to wrestle Big 10 competition for 4/5 years. Taylor was pinned so does that make him lower in your rankings too?
I didn’t put Taylor in my top tier rankings, but since you brought him up, yes being pinned has him in the second tier just above Spencer due to fewer losses. Never been a big Dake fan but he wrestled in his school’s league (can’t fault him for that) and beat big 10 competition at nationals.
You ranked Dake with Gable, Stieber, Smith etc…in your tier below Cael. Then said Spencer had “a few” too many losses to be considered in that tier. But he only had 1 more loss than Dake. Which criteria is it?
On top of that, Stieber has 6 career losses which is 1 more than Spencer and Pat Smith has 5 career losses plus 2 ties which has to be considered worse than Spencer too
I don’t want to get caught up in semantics or league strength or toughest weight classes so I’ll simplify it for you. Cael number 1 and Uetake number 2 due to less matches. Both went undefeated for their college careers. I’ll throw in Dan Gable as number 3 as well. If you can say why Spencer Lee is better than those 3, you need to take off your Hawkeyes glasses because it just isn’t so.
Spencer won a National Championship his freshman year, without a redshirt. Carl did not and did take a loss his first year.
Cael did take a redshirt and his loss doesn’t count on his official record. Lots of wrestlers use shirts, red - grey- medical or Olympic. Put down the Kool aid and take a minute to google Cael’s record. I’m sure some wrestlers got pinned in practice, are you counting those as well? Lol.
Spencer may be the best 125 pounder ever but come back to reality and just enjoy the show he’ll put on at Big 10s and nationals.
^^^^^R U touched in the head!?!?!? Serious question!
OK, lets go over this v e r y s l o w & CLEARLY!!!
1st- please PLEASE TRY to understand some things BEFORE making stupid comments!!!
Spencer LEE has not been 100% his entire college career. There is not a single wrestler named on this list that could have even come close to doing what he did PERIOD!!!
Before moving forward, if you want to dismiss what he had to overcome, then maybe you have an argument?
SL tore his ACL in HS, wrestled in the states. Had surgery, WON NCAA as a TRUE Freshman beating many great wrestlers easily!!! So here is your chance to tell me who else did THAT!?!?!?!? Answer NO ONE!!! Who else could have done that???? Once again, answer NO ONE!!!
He continued to wrestle and train at well under 100%. It has been talked about; how modified his work out had to be. This is for his entire college career. He has NOT BEEN ABLE TO TRAIN ALL OUT!!! So here I will ask again. Who on your list could have WON NCAAs while NOT being able to train at anywhere near 100%? Answer NO ONE!!!
Now we come to the CRAZIEST PART!!! SL has NO ACLs. He tore them both. He continues to wrestle and WINS the NCAAs AGAIN!!!!! Do I even have to ask!?!?!? Is there anyone on here stupid enough to think that another wrestler named above could have done this???
So, if you ONLY want to talk about wins and loses, that is your argument. then very simple you just go down the line starting with Kale. Problem is, many have already talked about other factors, most notably DAKE and his wins at 4 weights.
Why is this something(and believe me I know it is)? How about who the wrestlers beat? Why is that important, but wrestling with NO ACLs, well that does not count in our evaluation because why!?!?!?!?
Most of us older Gents have gotten to watch many if not all of this great wrestlers from the modern era(after WW2, which when talking of greatness. there are some at a WHOLE NOTHER LEVEL which I will not get into here)
IF you are watching, and if you have seen lets just say. Kale, Taylor, Smith, Stirbeler, Dake etc... Have you ever witnessed them going through top ranked guys like a freaking BUZZ SAW aka Spencer LEE!?!?!? I mean he steps on the mat, and IF he doesn't pin or tech a guy in under a minute, you start to wonder if he hurt his knee or something? That is how crazy it is!!!
So go on and continue to either, not understand what you are watching??? OR maybe because you are not an IOWA guy you want to pretend SL just isn't that great because he lost at maybe 50% of his best self(and if you think anyone could beat him at 100%, I have a bridge to sell you!!!).
In conclusion, rank em any stupid way you wish. Use any stupid formula you wish? Take into account the things that will make your guy look better and SL look worse! The bottom line is very simple and I do hope I am wrong, BUT we are most likely watching the GOAT!!! A ONCE IN A LIFE TIME TALENT!!!
In other words, you won't get into areas that don't back up your justifications.
Sounds like semantics, the very thing you so want to avoid.
Tell me who Bael beat that makes him goat.
Consistent yes. Durable yes. Goat? Meh.
He may turn out to be the greatest college coach ever and certainly a great wrestler, just not sure of the level of competition he faced. Dake and Stieber took out big time studs
It's hard to imagine Lee w two good legs. The guy is a freak. We are lucky he wanted the Brands in his corner.
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I think it's obvious people are trying to discredit Spencer's accomplishments. It doesn't take a lot of thought on why they're doing this.
Didn’t Stieber lose to a true freshman his senior year? Could you imagine if that happened to Spencer?
So you are telling me Carls competition all 4 years was/is better than Spencer’s??? Good try…
Thanks for the unintelligible whimsical tirade. I just skimmed it because
Now that was a tirade full of nonsense. I only skimmed it because your first couple of paragraphs were full of what ifs and assumptions you cannot back up or prove. It’s apparent that you are either Spencer’s relative or just a fanboy that drank to much of the kool aid. I’ve been wrestling, coaching and watching wrestling more years than you’ve probably been alive. So you think Spencer is a once in a lifetime talent? That may be true if you’re 9 years old. I’m a realist and not a fanboy like yourself, Spencer is great but not in the GOAT conversation. End of discussion (Piccininni settled that) Someone once said, “excuses are for wusses”. Well your tirade was full of them. Spencer would be embarrassed for you.
Just an FYI, if you ever saw Uetake wrestle, we wouldn’t be debating.
I just don’t want to entertain more arguments from kool aid drinkers. If I said 125 has always been the weakest division in wrestling, someone like yourself would give one example where it wasn’t. Everything isn’t just black and white but 125 being the weakest weight is a very dark shade of grey.
He doesn't know and is just spewing whatever he can to disparage SL because he didn't end up in State College. The butt hurt by lions is very apparent when discussing Lee.
Finally somebody that gets it! I have seen all the mentioned wrestlers live and never seen anything like Spencer. To me Dake is still #1 cuz it’s kinda like Brady vs Mahomes. When Mahomes is done he will be better similar to Spencer when he is done he will be better as well. Everyone has and is entitled to their opinion but you can’t deny the facts that Spencer is the best college wrestler we have ever seen. It’s not all about wins and losses. He’s a 3 timer going for 4 that has gone through more adversity than any wrestler I have ever seen. It’s almost unbelievable what he has done. The one thing that separates him from Carl for me is he is not a smug DB. Dake did a wrestling camp in our home town and was absolutely phenomenal with the kids another reason I like him over Carl.
Spencer isn’t done wrestling yet, don’t see him losing again but you never know. The other wrestlers careers are over.
Ok, Stieber and Smith are now in the lower level. I don’t care and I’m sure they don’t as well. Lol
You could say the same about you. So you’re telling me that Carls competition over his 4 year run was better. Good try.
This may be hard for you to comprehend so do your best. Nobody chooses who they wrestle. Well at least they didn’t before all this ducking that has been going on lately. One man wrestled 159 times and never lost, the other will probably end up with 100 wins and 5 losses including counting some lights. Any sane person would think the first guy had the better career. Remember, excuses are for wusses, so don’t go there please.
OK, you are not touched in the head, you are just an ass hat troll wanna be douche!!!
"assumptions I cannot back up" huh!??!?! He didn't tear his ACL in HS??? He just faked it in your world!?!?!?
He didn't win NCAAs with no ACLs, he just had surgery on both to look tough!!?!? What in all hell are you talking about. ALL of it is very well documented. There is NO wrestler from the modern era, and maybe not a wrestler ever who could have done 1/4 of what he has done under the same circumstances.
I would even say, IF I believed you were a wrestling guy as you say, which I do not!!! Just go ask any great wrestlers you know. They will tell you that it is not even remotely imaginable to do what he has done! FACT!!!
So anyone who thinks Spencer Lee is not the greatest wrestler to ever grace his presence on the planet is a bitter PSU fan? How about some of us live in reality and have followed wrestling for more than five years.
Everyone step aside and let Iron Doc and Aries work this out. Check back in 4 pages from now.
You poor feeble minded soul. The assumptions you made were that nobody on earth could do what SL did. Now you look even dumber by saying no other wrestler could do a quarter of the things he’s done. You know you lost your argument when you have to resort to name calling and cursing. You youngsters love to troll in your mommies basement. Go upstairs, eat a hot pocket and go for a walk. It might help you see things better. Or just continue to stare at your SL posters on the ceiling above your bed. You have a serious fanboy problem, get help.
His account was created yesterday. The same day that johnstownsteel got banned. I wonder what the possibility is that this is the same person? In that case all of us have already won by not being him. Imagine not being able to go one day without trolling on an opposing fans board. That is pathetic! And now we know his true worth. So stop arguing there’s no chance you’re going to change his mind. I think he’s proven he’s more likely to change his username than his opinion of Iowa and their fans.
He’s a loser, he just doesn’t realize it.
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Someone like me? I see no reason why I would do such. Seems like you're attempting justification again.
We get it, you don't think SL is the greatest ever. And maybe he's not. But he's the best Iowa wrestler of all time, so maybe stop being all p*ssy and surprised that some Iowa fans on an Iowa forum think Spencer is the best ever, GTFO and go spend your time on a board of whatever program you are a fan of you f*cking dork.
Finally someone answered with half a brain, even though it’s somewhat damaged. You are right, Spencer Lee is the Hawkeyes best wrestler ever, but not not THE best wrestler ever. Just because I don’t participate in the SL circle jerk doesn’t mean I’m not an Iowa wrestling fan. You immature mommas boys keyboard warriors are the reason most knowledgeable wrestling fans laugh at us real fans.
I despise GOAT arguments, completely pointless and totally subjective. Yet here I am posting.
What's your reasoning for not listing Dan Hodge? Every bit as dominant as Uetake, maybe even more. Hodge not only won NCAAs every year, but was undefeated AND no one ever took him down in college.
Cael lost matches his freshman year. They did not count because he redshirted. Spencer’s losses counted because he did not redshirt.
I like your take. Recency bias is obviously an issue and most won’t do any research. Uetake is my #1. People don’t understand that he did not run up the score on his opponents because of his cultural belief that you should respect and not embarrass your opponent. 2x Olympic gold. Hodge really was dominant and maybe my #2. Unbelievable hand strength. He got screwed in Olympic finals.I despise GOAT arguments, completely pointless and totally subjective. Yet here I am posting.
What's your reasoning for not listing Dan Hodge? Every bit as dominant as Uetake, maybe even more. Hodge not only won NCAAs every year, but was undefeated AND no one ever took him down in college.
Us real fans, says the guy with 12 posts on an account created 6 days ago.
But he never won the Hodge Award, so he must have not been that good per AriesRamI despise GOAT arguments, completely pointless and totally subjective. Yet here I am posting.
What's your reasoning for not listing Dan Hodge? Every bit as dominant as Uetake, maybe even more. Hodge not only won NCAAs every year, but was undefeated AND no one ever took him down in college.
The argument against Cael really is just that simple. He certainly had a significant chance of losing more than one match as a true freshman if he'd wrestled a full schedule and maybe he doesn't even win four titles at all. Those things do count in debates like this. If he had been undefeated unattached you at least wouldn't have that caveat, he'd have proven unbeatable anyway so it'd be moot, but Jenn beat him. Yet even if he'd lost another match or two as a true freshman, but then still won the NCAA title and followed it up with three more, he'd still be on the short list of the best. That's where Spencer finds himself now if he can finish the job in four weeks time.
In my first post, I originally had Dan Hodge with several others behind Cael. He was a man amongst boys. He’s definitely top tier and would have won 4 national championships if he was able to wrestle his freshman year. Sorry I forgot to mention him again since I was being attacked for not saying Spencer Lee is the greatest wrestler to ever set foot on earth.
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