How does ISU totally kill Iowa in recruiting

[Lone Clone]

He picked ISU over UNI and was rated lower than Toussiant when he committed

Not bagging on him, just providing some context for this thread.

I realize that. It's funny -- I know nothing about the game, not qualified to evaluate players -- when I watched the videos of the incoming recruits, I liked Halliburton, although he wasn't getting anywhere near the attention a couple of others were getting. But he's been really, really solid in all phases of the game, plus he seems to be having so damned much FUN all the time.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

That sounds like Johnny, but it wasn't really the case. He had quite a few white Iowa kids playing for him over the years.

ISU has tried to get the top Iowa kids, just hasn't been able to do it. Hinrich verbally committed, then backed out when Floyd left. Tried to get Collison, too, and obviously wanted Harrison Barnes.

Like I said, it was Orr's first year.

I'm acutely aware of the number of white players he recruited over the years.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

I realize that. It's funny -- I know nothing about the game, not qualified to evaluate players -- when I watched the videos of the incoming recruits, I liked Halliburton, although he wasn't getting anywhere near the attention a couple of others were getting. But he's been really, really solid in all phases of the game, plus he seems to be having so damned much FUN all the time.

You are pretty reasonable, so I don’t feel like I need to explain things to you that much lol

 

[Lone Clone]

Only four of the players I listed left early. And that wasn't the point. Most of the players Fran recruits wouldn't get ISU offers.

If that is true, which I wouldn't necessarily say it is, it could have more to do with the style of play and the type of players needed for it than with recruiting effort.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

If that is true, which I wouldn't necessarily say it is, it could have more to do with the style of play and the type of players needed for it than with recruiting effort.

Did you see my list? I could have kept going.

Name one of those players Fred or Prohm would have offered.

And Fran plays uptempo, so yeah, I think he could use a few more athletes. Not to mention every contender needs guys with enough foot speed and lateral quickness to defend.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Outside of Cook and Weiskamp and maybe Garza who else on the roster would be playing in a P5 conference? A couple might be 8-10 on the bench but none would be logging major minutes or starting. You can deny the elephant in the room but it is what it is.

 

[Iowan525]

The primary difference here which quite honestly is blatantly obvious is Iowa State not only recruits prep players with more success (Lindell Wigginton, 24th ranked recruit; Talen Horton Tucker, 33rd ranked recruit, etc etc) but they ALSO supplement that with high major impact transfers year after year. Marial Shayok (Virginia transfer) is currently 2nd in the Big 12 in scoring dropping nearly 20 ppg). Michael Jacobsen (Nebraska transfer and Waukee HS native is currently putting up 15 ppg). If those guys were incoming freshman they'd be high 4 if not 5 star players.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

Cook, Moss, and Wieskamp all had ISU offers

Garza did not, but he was a consensus 4* that fits our style.

McCaffery is obviously tough to judge but he was also a 4* player.

So basically we are talking about Bohannon, Kriener, and Baer in terms of whether or not iowa should have recruited. one of which is a starter and is the weak link right now. Kriener had better offers than Jacobson out of high school.

 

[andy1992]

Cook, Moss, and Wieskamp all had ISU offers

Garza did not, but he was a consensus 4* that fits our style.

McCaffery is obviously tough to judge but he was also a 4* player.

So basically we are talking about Bohannon, Kriener, and Baer in terms of whether or not iowa should have recruited. one of which is a starter and is the weak link right now. Kriener had better offers than Jacobson out of high school.

The other problem is you have guys around the 9-12 guys on the bench getting major minutes and keeping them around when most of them are clearly not power 5 players. Iowa State shortens the bench, lets the players go that should be playing at a lower school and takes a transfer. We just had a four star recruit transfer out because he was over ranked as a high school player.

 

[Fsanford]

And he was a decidedly better recruit than wieskamp? Same class, similar role, similar ranking

Wieskamp was an Iowa signee from birth, little recruiting effort was needed

ISU got Wiggington who was top 25 and Horton Tucker who is top 35 going outside of the state.
Don't think they were ISU hoops fans growing up had to sell them

Fran has a son who is coming to play for him. A very good player.
Look you take them anyway you can get them, I get it, but if they were not indoctrinated with Iowa hoops at a young age or offspring you wonder if they would be at Iowa. Maybe they would.


Similar to Ferentz who has street cred on putting O linemen in the NFL, Prohm is starting getting some credit for putting guards in the NBA. Probably helps open doors when recruiting point guards.

Maybe he is just good at teaching guard play. Bilas was gushing about Haliburton in Hawaii, to your point he was not recruited by blue bloods but Bilas said he is really good.

 

[CecilBrands]

Yeah, I'm not so sure of that.
By the time ism and smith are 4th year guys, I expect them to be just as good.....

LOL

 

[Kurt Warner]

Give me more details of how iowa state is killing us in recruiting.

This doesn't even deserve an answer, if you are that blind nobody can help you

 

[Iowan525]

Cook, Moss, and Wieskamp all had ISU offers

Garza did not, but he was a consensus 4* that fits our style.

McCaffery is obviously tough to judge but he was also a 4* player.

So basically we are talking about Bohannon, Kriener, and Baer in terms of whether or not iowa should have recruited. one of which is a starter and is the weak link right now. Kriener had better offers than Jacobson out of high school.

You are making this harder than it needs to be. How many players on our roster play for Iowa State this year?

Point Guard: Nick Babb for ISU no one on the Hawks roster takes minutes from him.

Off-Guard: The Clones have Wigginton, Shayok and Horton-Tucker. Do you honestly think Wieskamp or Bohannon take minutes from those three? I dont.

Forward: Clones have Lard, Jaconsen and Young. Cook would get nice minutes in their frontcourt but that is it.

 

[CecilBrands]

Give me more details of how iowa state is killing us in recruiting.

Holy. Shit. SMH...

 

[IowaPride95]

He picked ISU over UNI and was rated lower than Toussiant when he committed

Not bagging on him, just providing some context for this thread.

His final five was Cincinnati, Nebraska, Minnesota, UNI and ISU and he held offers from all five. Not an elite list of suitors, but he had more options than just ISU and UNI.

 

[gonegolfing]

Cook, Moss, and Wieskamp all had ISU offers

Garza did not, but he was a consensus 4* that fits our style.

McCaffery is obviously tough to judge but he was also a 4* player.

So basically we are talking about Bohannon, Kriener, and Baer in terms of whether or not iowa should have recruited. one of which is a starter and is the weak link right now. Kriener had better offers than Jacobson out of high school.

One school has the support of the NCAA tournament and NBA talent departments saying they are superior at recruiting.

Additionally of the other three you are evaluating, one is a role play shooter. The other two are UNI caliber talents at best.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

His final five was Cincinnati, Nebraska, Minnesota, UNI and ISU and he held offers from all five. Not an elite list of suitors, but he had more options than just ISU and UNI.

UNI thought he was coming there until late.

I’m not saying ISU hasn’t recruited better. They have. But iowa has not recruited poorly and ISU is not “absolutely killing” iowa.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

You are making this harder than it needs to be. How many players on our roster play for Iowa State this year?

Point Guard: Nick Babb for ISU no one on the Hawks roster takes minutes from him.

Off-Guard: The Clones have Wigginton, Shayok and Horton-Tucker. Do you honestly think Wieskamp or Bohannon take minutes from those three? I dont.

Forward: Clones have Lard, Jaconsen and Young. Cook would get nice minutes in their frontcourt but that is it.

Yes, I think Wieskamp plays at ISU and i never said Jordan would. In fact I called Jordan the weak link. And now you think Jacobson is better than Cook?

 

[CecilBrands]

UNI thought he was coming there until late.

I’m not saying ISU hasn’t recruited better. They have. But iowa has not recruited poorly and ISU is not “absolutely killing” iowa.

Umm yes they are. Iowa state has absolutely blasted iowa in basketball the last 10 years. Head to head, tournament, you name it. So they're either whooping us in recruiting or whooping us in coaching. I know you'll have some garbage argument saying its not that bad yadayada, we beat them a couple times yadayada, we play them close so recruiting and coaching is the same yadayada...bunch of homer excuses.

 

[Iowan525]

He picked ISU over UNI and was rated lower than Toussiant when he committed

Not bagging on him, just providing some context for this thread.

Toissiant only has one P5 offer and it is Iowa.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

Umm yes they are. Iowa state has absolutely blasted iowa in basketball the last 10 years. Head to head, tournament, you name it. So they're either whooping us in recruiting or whooping us in coaching. I know you'll have some garbage argument saying its not that bad yadayada, we beat them a couple times yadayada, we play them close so recruiting and coaching is the same yadayada...bunch of homer excuses.

But we have been way better in football, wrestling, and baseball if you want to keep changing the subject.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

Toissiant only has one P5 offer and it is Iowa.

Thanks.

 

[Iowan525]

Yes, I think Wieskamp plays at ISU and i never said Jordan would. In fact I called Jordan the weak link. And now you think Jacobson is better than Cook?

Wieskamp is a nice player but there is zero chance he plays over Wigginton, Shayok or Horton-Tucker. He just isn't. I never said Jacobsen was a better player than Cook. Vastly different players. Lard and Cook are more comparable in terms of skill set.

 

[Fsanford]

Wieskamp is a nice player but there is zero chance he plays over Wigginton, Shayok or Horton-Tucker. He just isn't. I never said Jacobsen was a better player than Cook. Vastly different players. Lard and Cook are more comparable in terms of skill set.

Wieskamp actually would draw a big from under the bucket, Prohm would probably have him sit on the 3 point line, kid is dropping them in at a 42% clip, drive the bucket if the big goes out to take Wieskamp guard just takes it the hole if post rotates to help Wieskamp with the open 3.
When Fred was at ISU they made a living off this stuff
Wieskamp would play a lot at ISU. The kid is gonna be a really really good college basketball player

 

[HawkLand]

I’ve always hated recruiting rankings, but at this point I literally can’t handle hearing how many 4* players we have on our team. We have 1 guy who has played in an ncaa tourney game and he was a walk-on. Whether it’s poor recruiting, poor coaching, or a bad mix of players not fitting what the coach wants, I don’t know or don’t care. The only facts I have is our vaunted recruits that are now juniors are 14-24 in big10 games. Unbiased analysts, and computer algorithms seem to expect more of the same.

I would kill for this to turn it around, and don’t tell me it’s one game so relax. If it was a bad game now and again I could relax.

Sorry. Babbling and just need to release some frustration. Hopefully the light comes on Thursday.

 

[Cydkar]

Cook, Moss, and Wieskamp all had ISU offers

Garza did not, but he was a consensus 4* that fits our style.

McCaffery is obviously tough to judge but he was also a 4* player.

So basically we are talking about Bohannon, Kriener, and Baer in terms of whether or not iowa should have recruited. one of which is a starter and is the weak link right now. Kriener had better offers than Jacobson out of high school.

The more you post the more it seems that Fran just can't coach. He clearly has plenty of talent amirite?

 

[L. Wade Childress]

The more you post the more it seems that Fran just can't coach. He clearly has plenty of talent amirite?

Yes, we should be better than we are.

 

[Iowan525]

Wieskamp actually would draw a big from under the bucket, Prohm would probably have him sit on the 3 point line, kid is dropping them in at a 42% clip, drive the bucket if the big goes out to take Wieskamp guard just takes it the hole if post rotates to help Wieskamp with the open 3.
When Fred was at ISU they made a living off this stuff
Wieskamp would play a lot at ISU. The kid is gonna be a really really good college basketball player

Wieskamp would be the 8th man for ISU THIS year at best. He will be a heckuva player in years to come but would have a hard time getting significant minutes in Ames this year.

 

[BioHawk]

College basketball recruiting is a dirty cesspool of filth and if you want to compete you have to be willing to sacrifice certain values that University of Iowa holds as its number one priority. Unless Iowa is willing to get in the mud that is AAU recruiting this is the way things are. It's so bad it's hard for me to really take any champion seriously because the rules are so blatantly flaunted by teams. How many Division 1 programs have people talking to the FBI right now?

 

[Rustys Dad]

ISU gets criticized for this, but they don't focus on kids from the state of Iowa.

Agree 100%! In basketball and football ... Prohm and Campbell recruit speed and athletes outside of Iowa.

 

[Fsanford]

Wieskamp would be the 8th man for ISU THIS year at best. He will be a heckuva player in years to come but would have a hard time getting significant minutes in Ames this year.

Right now ISU is out rebounding teams with the current roster, so when Young comes back what will his role be, his stats say he is not a rim protector, he is not an outside shooter, not a high end scorer . You need him primarily for board work, but if others got that covered what role does he have? Would think he will be coming off the bench and provide post depth and will see how Lard reacts to having to sit for disciplinary reasons, clearly the kid has some issues to workout. I would put Wieskamp ahead of both of these guys

When Wiggington comes back Halliburton will sit, and then come in to give Wiggington and Babb a breather.

The one thing ISU lacks is a consistent 3 point shooter, Wieskamp would fit the bill based on his performance thus far.
He would not start, but he would be 1st or 2nd off the bench especially if more offense was needed. The spacing on the floor with him out there would be great. And the kid is grabbing almost 7 boards a game

Lard for Wieskamp would be an upgrade for ISU based on their current roster imho.

 

[anon_bb9wlf9kj42py]

Agreed, people are taking this way too far. Weiskamp is great.

 

[Hayes_30]

They take a pass on 6'6 to 6'10 skinny white guys

Not true at all. Just skinny 6'6 to 6'10 white kids from Iowa.
https://247sports.com/player/luke-anderson-46039928/

 

[AlanAldaClone]

Give me more details of how iowa state is killing us in recruiting.

We've been playing with only eight players until tonight, when two others came off suspension, and four of those eight players are freshmen. Six of the eight are newcomers (playing in an ISU uniform for the first time). I'd say if you can play respectably with only eight players, six of them newcomers, you're killing it in recruiting. Certainly not Duke or Kentucky level killing it, but killing it compared to teams we compete against.

Our 2019 class doesn't look that great on paper, but Leech was considered a 5-star as a sophomore, until he suffered a devastating leg injury and is just now getting back into shape, and Tre Jackson blew up on the AAU circuit after we offered him and he started getting a lot more offers (he has 20 that we know of now, none all that great), but we were in on him early and he stuck with us. Luke Anderson is a stretch 4, the kind of player everyone is looking for nowadays. He reminds me of Niang, not quite as skilled around the basket, but similar style of play with the ball handling and three-point shooting.

These suspensions and injuries have been a blessing in disguise really, giving all our freshmen a lot of playing time they wouldn't ordinarily have had. You would have expected us to struggle given that scenario, but I've been pleasantly surprised.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I like every one of Iowa's players - they are all talented, hard working young men that could contribute on most teams.

But, they are role players - limited in their skills - no complete player on the roster (maybe Joe, to soon to tell).

Fran like interchangeable parts - well, he's got them. One players sits and is replaced by basically the same guy.

The problem lies not with the players they have, it's the players they don't have. No defensive stoppers, no shot blockers, no one that can create their own shot from nothing, no one that can get in the paint and cause problems for the defense, no big body to handle the big dudes in the middle.

Put Iowa's top 10 on ten different teams and all contribute. Put them all on the same team and they are just not talented enough to hang with really good teams - like most of the teams in the B1G.

 

[Jizzer]

From 2016-2019 recruiting classes: Iowa has pulled in the #43, #64, #74, and #111 ranked recruits according to Rivals. ISU has pulled in #24, #33, #85, #116, #131 (Jakolby Long who's gone), and #143. Looking at this, I wouldn't say they are "killing" us in recruiting. The main difference between these two programs, is ISU "kills" it with transfers. Which I guess, you could say is recruiting, in a way. Without Talley, Babb, Jacobsen, and Shayok, ISU wouldn't be near where it is right now. Iowa needs to find a way to get some impact transfers. ISU had some things fall there way with these transfers, as Babb recruited his brother and Jacobsen wanted to come home, but Frans' inability to adapt to the college transfer game has really hurt him in his time here.

 

[HawkLogic]

That's a cop out. And Wisconsin generally gets higher ranked players than Iowa.

Wisconsin under Bo Ryan was able build his program starting with a single NBA level PG (Devin Harris) and very astute recruiting/coaching/system. If an Iowa coach is going to rely on Iowa players for his core, we need to play at below average scoring pace, minimize turnovers, emphasize defense, and emphasize 3pt shooting, and go small, and play your best 5. As far as recruiting/roster management, you have to go out of state for athletes, use juco system, and transfers and to make up for down years in instate recruiting.

This is opposite of everything Fran does.

 

[TailgateTom]

IMO, look no further than Monte Morris ordeal. Had him gift wrapped, but Fran said, "no thanks."

 

[HawkLogic]

Cook, Moss, and Wieskamp all had ISU offers

Garza did not, but he was a consensus 4* that fits our style.

McCaffery is obviously tough to judge but he was also a 4* player.

So basically we are talking about Bohannon, Kriener, and Baer in terms of whether or not iowa should have recruited. one of which is a starter and is the weak link right now. Kriener had better offers than Jacobson out of high school.

Pemsl below the rim player, Dailey Rutgers flip, Fran's family friend CJ Frederick, Wagner and Elliingson that just left, Flemming, Christian Williams.

 

[hawkeyekid]

Honestly, I don't think Fran and his staff are good at evaluating talent and how it will transfer from high school to college.

Almost complete opposite of the football staff.