HS Wrestler Disqualified

[IRONBIRD]

This appears to be very shady to me. I watched video and the kid did not appear to be out of line to me.

The one point awarded at end was also wrong from my view. Your thoughts?

https://journaltimes.com/sports/hig...OStBzEjn76OnfAL671JFRdJghU4HNtUP4B9ng-wr6KDw8

 

[bawlmerhawk]

Glad they hired a lawyer. This is ridiculous.

 

[ja367501]

This is terrible. My team wrestles in Wisconsin and I can say I am not surprised!

 

[WiscoWrastler]

This kid lost his team the state title lost year losing a point on misconduct and there is a history there. He also allegedly swore at the ref. He was taunting his old team with the flex.

 

[Jcchawk]

The ref should be disqualified from any future assignments and the kid should be reinstated.

 

[Jcchawk]

This kid lost his team the state title lost year losing a point on misconduct and there is a history there. He also allegedly swore at the ref. He was taunting his old team with the flex.

I'd say the ref is full of shit and making crap up to cover his butt. Nothing there warrants a DQ or suspension. That ref should never have been allowed to ref that match. He had the axe to grind.

 

[pablow]

This kid lost his team the state title lost year losing a point on misconduct and there is a history there. He also allegedly swore at the ref. He was taunting his old team with the flex.

How about that bogus escape call, was the ref looking to provoke the kid? How about the guy in the crowd that yelled "what the hell was that?" Should he have been arrested? The ref threatened him.

 

[texas twister]

The ref called it correctly except it may have been a reversal instead of an escape. I just can't see good enough to tell. The kid got dinged for opening his mouth to the ref. That is an automatic USC. Doing the muscle flex to taunt his old team is easily another USC. You fellas on here that are criticizing the ref, you have no idea what you are talking about. Try learning the rules. First, purchase a rule book. The kid never learned his lesson from past experiences.

 

[Grip220]

That was absolute BS nothing that wrestler did warranted any unsportsmanlike at all and you can clearly see the ref was biased , very quick pre thought calls. The ref should lose his job and the wrestler reinstated. And the reference of previous calls against him is irrelevant.

 

[Jcchawk]

The ref called it correctly except it may have been a reversal instead of an escape. I just can't see good enough to tell. The kid got dinged for opening his mouth to the ref. That is an automatic USC. Doing the muscle flex to taunt his old team is easily another USC. You fellas on here that are criticizing the ref, you have no idea what you are talking about. Try learning the rules. First, purchase a rule book. The kid never learned his lesson from past experiences.

Try using your eyes. There were no points there. The Halter kid still had control. I dont have a Dog in this fight but that Ref should be suspended,

 

[texas twister]

Glad they hired a lawyer. This is ridiculous.

Waste of time and waste of money. It will accomplish NOTHING. They should have bought a paddle raising the kid and taught him not to mouth off to an authority.

 

[texas twister]

Try using your eyes. There were no points there. The Halter kid still had control. I dont have a Dog in this fight but that Ref should be suspended,

Looked like he may have been behind both arms. Do you officiate?

Just watched it again. Looks like a reversal to me. I am OK with an escape.

 

[pablow]

That was absolute BS nothing that wrestler did warranted any unsportsmanlike at all and you can clearly see the ref was biased , very quick pre thought calls. The ref should lose his job and the wrestler reinstated. And the reference of previous calls against him is irrelevant.

I'd sure hope he gets reinstated. That was a travesty. Can't talk to the ref? The flex was barely perceptable - it was nothing.

 

[Jcchawk]

Looked like he may have been behind both arms. Do you officiate?

Do I have to be a ref to have an opinion and know the rules?

 

[texas twister]

Do I have to be a ref to have an opinion and know the rules?

I knew you weren't a ref and you don't know the rules very well.

 

[rassling]

Looked like he may have been behind both arms. Do you officiate?

I get being a ref is not an easy job. But dinging the kid for the flex and knowing that this second USC will take him out of post season is a bit much. I don't expect you to understand because refs always stick together. Doesn't matter if the call is wrong or not.

 

[Gobblin]

How do we know what the kid said to the ref? Is that documented anywhere?

 

[texas twister]

Lead official on the mat has absolute and final say. End of story.

 

[texas twister]

I get being a ref is not an easy job. But dinging the kid for the flex and knowing that this second USC will take him out of post season is a bit much. I don't expect you to understand because refs always stick together. Doesn't matter if the call is wrong or not.

I would have required a little more unless it was very obvious he was taunting. I would have said something to him about settling down and show respect because I don't want to ding him again. The ref did according to the rules and I won't criticize him for it. I would have had slightly more tolerant..

 

[buckw87]

It wasn't a reversal either, but what do I know, I've never purchased a rule book.

 

[Jcchawk]

I knew you weren't a ref and you don't know the rules very well.

Because refs never make mistakes. There was no control there for 2 and no separation for an escape. The other kids arm was trapped to the mat and not around Halter. Halters one leg was clearly free and the kid wasn't around his waist with his arm. Since when does having control of one leg and maybe an arm constitute points Mr. official?

Arrogant attitudes from refs like you are why situations like above happen.

 

[texas twister]

It wasn't a reversal either, but what do I know, I've never purchased a rule book.

I read a piece by our chapter's former rules interpreter (retired 1 year ago - health issues). He also thought it might have been a reversal and he too said it was hard to see for sure.

 

[texas twister]

Because refs never make mistakes. There was no control there for 2 and no separation for an escape. The other kids arm was trapped to the mat and not around Halter. Halters one leg was clearly free and the kid wasn't around his waist with his arm. Since when does having control of one leg and maybe an arm constitute points Mr. official?

Arrogant attitudes from refs like you are why situations like above happen.

Like I said, you obviously don't know the rules.

 

[texas twister]

At the 2:42 mark, it looks like opponent has both arms behind Halter's arms with a hook in.

 

[js8793]

Lead official on the mat has absolute and final say. End of story.

I love comments like this because they add absolutely no substance to the conversation. Yeah, duh buddy. We're criticizing him for the decision he made with that authority. Commenting "The sky is blue. End of story." adds just as much as that comment.

 

[Birky]

Haven’t watched any of it, so no opinion on this, but I seem to remember Twister defending an indefensible football official a few years ago?

Everybody screws up. Admitting it when it happens is just as important as defending them when wrongly accused.

Again, no idea which is the case in this instance.

Twister, what did you think of the no call in the Saints v. Rams game?

 

[texas twister]

I love comments like this because they add absolutely no substance to the conversation. Yeah, duh buddy. We're criticizing him for the decision he made with that authority. Commenting "The sky is blue. End of story." adds just as much as that comment.

If you had better comprehension skills, you would have noticed that I was responding to a post someone made about Halter "lawyering up" and being "reinstated".

 

[texas twister]

Haven’t watched any of it, so no opinion on this, but I seem to remember Twister defending an indefensible football official a few years ago?

Oh, do you now? You'll have to tell me about it sometime as I have no recollection about it.

 

[Birky]

Oh, do you now? You'll have to tell me about it sometime as I have no recollection about it.

I remembered!!! I knew it was you. I don’t remember the officiating blunder in question.

You are a persistent and articulate defender. To a fault for sure, but all in with rule interpreters of our wonderful sporting events.

 

[Neo_Hawk]

At the 2:42 mark, it looks like opponent has both arms behind Halter's arms with a hook in.

Okay, so reading through this I thought maybe you lost mind or were trolling, but knowing I have liked a lot of your past posts, thought maybe I was missing something so I decided to go back and watch it again.

I get what you're saying about a potential reversal, with the angle it's hard to tell if he had it or not, since the ref didn't call it (and since most are assuming he is biased, he certainly would have called it given the chance) it must not have been.

So my issue is awarding an escape point after the whistle. You can certainly have an escape during the process of a reversal and that point not be awarded until the reversal fails and their is separation, but I don't think I've ever seen a situation where a point is awarded for an escape when guys are on the mat in a scramble for control. This is usually either a reversal, continuation of control or there is separation. Control in this situation always favors the person who last had it. Now if they were on their feet, I can see this being called after the buzzer, but not locked in contact on the mat.

More than likely, imo, the ref was momentarily confused and made the motion that both guys are on their feet. I really don't see any other explanation, no way could he actually be giving an escape.

The wrestler does not have a right to question the ref, everyone knows that, so that's an issue, can't really be argued. If you want to complain, talk to your coach. I don't know enough about the personal history to say if the flex/yell was out of bound or as the kid says, but a warning would have been nice, especially knowing the stakes, but this official was still upset about being questioned (or embarrassed by his mistake) and enforced a subjecting rule I guess he has a right to enforce. There should always be an appeals process, especially for HS wrestlers, these aren't paid athletes or even scholarship athletes, these school are there to serve them, that's their job. But with or without an appeals process, I don't think he has a chance to get this overturned.

Every wrestlers knows you don't confront or question the ref, even if they are 100% wrong.

 

[texas twister]

Okay, so reading through this I thought maybe you lost mind or were trolling, but knowing I have liked a lot of your past posts, thought maybe I was missing something so I decided to go back and watch it again.

I get what you're saying about a potential reversal, with the angle it's hard to tell if he had it or not, since the ref didn't call it (and since most are assuming he is biased, he certainly would have called it given the chance) it must not have been.

So my issue is awarding an escape point after the whistle. You can certainly have an escape during the process of a reversal and that point not be awarded until the reversal fails and their is separation, but I don't think I've ever seen a situation where a point is awarded for an escape when guys are on the mat in a scramble for control. This is usually either a reversal, continuation of control or there is separation. Control in this situation always favors the person who last had it. Now if they were on their feet, I can see this being called after the buzzer, but not locked in contact on the mat.

More than likely, imo, the ref was momentarily confused and made the motion that both guys are on their feet. I really don't see any other explanation, no way could he actually be giving an escape.

The wrestler does not have a right to question the ref, everyone knows that, so that's an issue, can't really be argued. If you want to complain, talk to your coach. I don't know enough about the personal history to say if the flex/yell was out of bound or as the kid says, but a warning would have been nice, especially knowing the stakes, but this official was still upset about being questioned (or embarrassed by his mistake) and enforced a subjecting rule I guess he has a right to enforce. There should always be an appeals process, especially for HS wrestlers, these aren't paid athletes or even scholarship athletes, these school are there to serve them, that's their job. But with or without an appeals process, I don't think he has a chance to get this overturned.

Every wrestlers knows you don't confront or question the ref, even if they are 100% wrong.

Loss of control can be still on the mat and separation is not a requirement. Your post is accurate in every other area. Like I have said, I just cannot see good enough with the video to be certain one way or another. I do "favor" a reversal.

 

[rcamp67]

If you had better comprehension skills, you would have noticed that I was responding to a post someone made about Halter "lawyering up" and being "reinstated".

Or if you had better internet skills you would have replied to that comment instead of making a new one that made no sense whatsoever without that context.

 

[CowboyKiller141]

Is he an Iowa recruit? I don’t get it. It’s an Iowa wrestling board the last time I checked. Who cares?

 

[Neo_Hawk]

Loss of control can be still on the mat and separation is not a requirement. Your post is accurate in every other area. Like I have said, I just cannot see good enough with the video to be certain one way or another. I do "favor" a reversal.

Since I am not going to read through the official rules handbook for WI hs wrestling, I will take your word for it that you can be on the mat locked up and have an escape happen, although I can't actually think of a time that I have ever seen it, with a point being awarded after the buzzer, but certainly from the video, this would not be one of those times, either he has a reversal or the original guy in control still has control enough to prevent a reversal, which to me means the other guy has not fully escaped From that, I don't see any possibility that an escape could be awarded.

 

[texas twister]

Since I am not going to read through the official rules handbook for WI hs wrestling, I will take your word for it that you can be on the mat locked up and have an escape happen, although I can't actually think of a time that I have ever seen it, with a point being awarded after the buzzer, but certainly from the video, this would not be one of those times, either he has a reversal or the original guy in control still has control enough to prevent a reversal, which to me means the other guy has not fully escaped From that, I don't see any possibility that an escape could be awarded.

Total judgment call. Bottom line, the wrestler should not have smarted off

 

[lookleft goright]

At the end of a match or on an out of bounds call the ref is supposed to make a snap shot decision. In other words, he is supposed to take mental picture and then make the call from that. At the end of the period, the top guy had lost control but the bottom guy did not yet have a reversal secured. I can see the loss of control call and awarding one point. The first unsportsmanlike call may be correct. I did not hear what the kid said or the tone he used. The second one was totally bogus IMHO.

 

[wasdt21]

says the guy saying its ok to hit kids with objects

 

[texas twister]

The second one was totally bogus IMHO.

Good explanation. This part at the end is the entire gray area. We just were not there to fully see, hear, and understand what constituted that second USC. I just cannot say whether or not it was merited. Halter pushed that envelope for sure.

 

[armbartilt]

The ref called it correctly except it may have been a reversal instead of an escape. I just can't see good enough to tell. The kid got dinged for opening his mouth to the ref. That is an automatic USC. Doing the muscle flex to taunt his old team is easily another USC. You fellas on here that are criticizing the ref, you have no idea what you are talking about. Try learning the rules. First, purchase a rule book. The kid never learned his lesson from past experiences.

kid deserved the first USC but not the second. How do you know he is taunting his old team??? Kid was looking at his dad.
90% of kids flex or the equivalent after a big win. Should we have USC 'd Spencer for pointing at his GF after winning at nationals?
This is little man ego BS trying to punish a kid. ---Small minded people with their chance to stick it to someone.

 

[artradley]

This kid lost his team the state title lost year losing a point on misconduct and there is a history there. He also allegedly swore at the ref. He was taunting his old team with the flex.

Bull