If Fran were like Crean....Who would be "Creaned" after the season?

[icu81222]

It's a dirty tactic and everyone know Crean has forced guys to move on so he can free up more scholarships for better players. That is undeniable.

If Fran was also unethical and a snake, who would he Crean?

For sure:
-Ellingson
-Fleming

Anyone else?

 

[Johnny Uthoff]

How can that be legal? You can kick guys off of scholarship when they've done nothing wrong (except for not being good at basketball)? I always thought, once on scholarship, a kid could at least keep the scholarship and get his education. The coach could tell them they'll never play a minute of ball. Can you really kick kids off scholarship though?

 

[MagicCoach]

Scholarships are on a year to year basis. What Crean does is legal and sounded like Fran was going to do it this offseason.

 

[SJeagleEye]

NOT Fleming! I still think that kid has got a swagger that is gonna pay off at some point. .02

 

[grosie#2]

If that's what it takes to win. A coach's job relies on wins and losses. Generally the more high profile the job the more pressure to win. I would not blame any coach for getting rid of a player who will contribute little and sign a player who can help win.

 

[amahawk]

It's a dirty tactic and everyone know Crean has forced guys to move on so he can free up more scholarships for better players. That is undeniable.

If Fran was also unethical and a snake, who would he Crean?

For sure:
-Ellingson
-Fleming

Anyone else?

Before you can "Crean" anyone you have to have new recruits ready to commit to your team.

 

[SJeagleEye]

Agree, I wouldn't feel bad, it has to be done.

If you can get bet a better recruit or players, sorry buddy, gotta move on.

 

[CO_hawk]

The circle of life (basketball).

 

[SDHN2013]

Agree, I wouldn't feel bad, it has to be done.

If you can get bet a better recruit or players, sorry buddy, gotta move on.

Agree. Can't jeopardize your 3+ million dollars a year. Got to kick those kids you made all them promises to right to the curb.

 

[hawkeyemark]

It boggles my mind that we give up on players like Ellingson and Fleming their freshman seasons and even have discussions like this. We have a surplus of players at the wing positions and perhaps somebody out of that group may want to move on or maybe they won't and decide to get a Big Ten caliber education regardless of whether they get to play as much as they had hoped to coming in or not. Fran and the players can handle these situations on their own. I just think we have an unusually high level of negativity toward our players that I find really foreign compared to what I grew up with before the age of the internet.

 

[StormHawk42]

Damn hope I never have kids that play for you guys

 

[Scott559]

I think you honor your commitment, I think it's completely legit to sit down after the season and give each player an honest evaluation of what you see as their future in the program, If they want to leave and pursue more playing time you help them transfer, But if they want to stay, You let them stay. I'm old school, I fully admit, I think honesty and integrity are still things I want represented at Iowa.

 

[Ronman]

Scholarships are on a year to year basis. What Crean does is legal and sounded like Fran was going to do it this offseason.

Link please.

 

[StormHawk42]

I think you honor your commitment, I think it's completely legit to sit down after the season and give each player an honest evaluation of what you see as their future in the program, If they want to leave and pursue more playing time you help them transfer, But if they want to stay, You let them stay. I'm old school, I fully admit, I think honesty and integrity are still things I want represented at Iowa.

Yeah exactly. Look, I'm not a prude and I want to win like everyone else. Sitting down after the season and tell a player where he's at and giving him the choice is perfectly fine. Having room for 2 scholarship commitments and somehow signing 4, then kids magically disappear in the offseason is where I have issues.

 

[Suterman]

I hope everyone stays and they battle it out for minutes next season. It will make everybody better. There are a ton of minutes available to play next year and we'll see who rises to the top. The only guaranteed starter is Jok, everything else is up for grabs.

 

[grosie#2]

Yeah exactly. Look, I'm not a prude and I want to win like everyone else. Sitting down after the season and tell a player where he's at and giving him the choice is perfectly fine. Having room for 2 scholarship commitments and somehow signing 4, then kids magically disappear in the offseason is where I have issues.

Until the NCAA changes the rules and stops this, every school should be able to play on an even playing field. I would hope a coach is honest with his recruits so they have an idea what there in for. I also hope if coach is going to take his scholarship that they help the kid find another school. No one is going to feel sorry for a coach if he's fired for a loosing record even though he's one hell of a nice guy.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

I have to hand it to Tom Crean for the winning the B10 championship and not having any qualms about looking like a complete douchebag on the sideline. His doucheyness doesn't phase him and just when you think he can't look any more stupid, he finds another gear. You go Tommy Boy. I'm sure he ate paint chips as a kid.

 

[goodbyebobby]

Somehow he got Boo Boo to buy in to playing defense and the rest of them followed.

Pains me to say but they're really good and can go a long, long, way.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

Indiana is more athletic than most teams. When you get to the elite level, that playing field levels in a big way. That's typically where coaching shows up. Let's hope he doesn't have to face a Syracuse zone or something.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

Let's not pretend this isn't like big business, because that's exactly what it is.

If Fran needs to have a hard conversation with a player that it's not going to work for him, then I just hope he's up front from the beginning and provides whatever support he can for that player to move on.

 

[hawksense]

If Indiana is so good, and I believe they are, what are we? We lost to them twice, but in both games we were neck and neck for 39 and a half minutes.

 

[perryhawk]

If Fran needs to have a hard conversation with a player that it's not going to work for him, then I just hope he's up front from the beginning and provides whatever support he can for that player to move on.[/QUOTE]

I don't have any doubt that this is exactly what Fran does if and when he makes that decision. The thing I think many fans here miss the boat on is that Fran is much better at making that decision than they are. If Brady Ellingson works hard and does what the coaches want him to do, these coaches will develop him into a player that contributes to this Iowa team in a positive way.

If Brady or any other player comes to the coaches and says this isn't working and they want to transfer then these coaches I'm sure handle that in a very professional and compassionate way.

 

[denmar81]

I don't think many coaches would "Crean" freshmen. Freshmen and Sophomores should be safe.

 

[icwesthawk]

If Indiana is so good, and I believe they are, what are we? We lost to them twice, but in both games we were neck and neck for 39 and a half minutes.

You have to be able to close out close games, especially at home, if you want to be considered really good. We had our chances and, in my opinion, blew both games with play that wasn't what we are capable of, them's the breaks.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

It boggles my mind that we give up on players like Ellingson and Fleming their freshman seasons and even have discussions like this. We have a surplus of players at the wing positions and perhaps somebody out of that group may want to move on or maybe they won't and decide to get a Big Ten caliber education regardless of whether they get to play as much as they had hoped to coming in or not. Fran and the players can handle these situations on their own. I just think we have an unusually high level of negativity toward our players that I find really foreign compared to what I grew up with before the age of the internet.

It's not that they can't get better, it's that we have some highly regarded kids looking at us for 17-18 and limited rides

 

[DakotaDan]

So the scholarship is guaranteed for a year but if the coach doesn't renew it, the player can not go to another D1 school without penalty.

That doesn't seem right. Sounds like the players need better representation.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

This topic is beyond old. Who are the players Crean has jettisoned because of lack of talent? I have asked this question multiple times and have gotten 0 answers. Crean kicked some guys off who were bad news. Maybe there are some names out there, but I would like to see a couple vs. having 10 more 'At least Fran won't Crean players like Crean' threads. Do you recall Pat Ingram and Kyle Meyer?

A kid may not be putting in the work OR they may not be good enough. If that is the case, I expect most kids would like to know so they can transfer vs. sitting for 4 years and putting all the work in.

 

[hawkeyemark]

It's not that they can't get better, it's that we have some highly regarded kids looking at us for 17-18 and limited rides

Then why did we sign these players in the first place? The discussion about transfers all revolves around Ellingson and Fleming who both play a position where we have an abundance of talent with Connor coming in after another season possibly playing shooting guard as well. I think Fran over-recruited at the wing but that falls on him and not on the players. So what if we have highly regarded kids looking at us? You sign players to a scholarship and make a commitment to them and if that makes me old-fashioned I'll carry that banner with pride.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

Fran won't over sign and cut guys. He will have an honest conversation about playing time.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

NOT Fleming! I still think that kid has got a swagger that is gonna pay off at some point. .02

I agree. I think he will be a decent player in the next year or so. Definitely want to see this guy play in the Black & Gold

 

[RocknRollface]

So the scholarship is guaranteed for a year but if the coach doesn't renew it, the player can not go to another D1 school without penalty.

That doesn't seem right. Sounds like the players need better representation.

They need to be smarter.

The way ive always looked at it is if a coach has a history of cutting players then players should be smart enough not to commit there.

 

[icwesthawk]

This topic is beyond old. Who are the players Crean has jettisoned because of lack of talent? I have asked this question multiple times and have gotten 0 answers. Crean kicked some guys off who were bad news. Maybe there are some names out there, but I would like to see a couple vs. having 10 more 'At least Fran won't Crean players like Crean' threads. Do you recall Pat Ingram and Kyle Meyer?

A kid may not be putting in the work OR they may not be good enough. If that is the case, I expect most kids would like to know so they can transfer vs. sitting for 4 years and putting all the work in.

Take your pick from this list...

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...from-iu-during-the-tom-crean-regime/70434440/

 

[St_Henry_Buckeye]

If Fran were like Crean he'd be the AP B1G Coach Of The Year.

 

[FranklinHawk]

Yeah exactly. Look, I'm not a prude and I want to win like everyone else. Sitting down after the season and tell a player where he's at and giving him the choice is perfectly fine. Having room for 2 scholarship commitments and somehow signing 4, then kids magically disappear in the offseason is where I have issues.

I agree. I think many folks here are misusing what I would call "Creaning", which I consider over signing beyond the level of available scholarships you have and then after the fact pushing guys out the door to make room. Very much the same thing much of the SEC does in football.

 

[Hawk-A-Doodle-Doo]

It has been Doodle's understanding, and please make a correction if this is not the case, that at Iowa, outside of dismissal for criminal or school code of conduct reasons, scholarships are granted on a 4-year basis.

Seems KF has mentioned it on more than one occasion, so perhaps it's a FOOTBALL policy and not something adhered to on a department-wide basis.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Just curious if anyone read the article. Each scenario unique. Some guys got hurt, others wanted to be closer to home, some wanted to play more and I bet some were or were soon to be academic casualties or didn't like Crean's system, discipline, etc. Those guys span Crean's career at IU, so it's not like he staged their departures. So if a player opts to leave a program, they got Creaned or 'cut'? No doubt some conversations likely took place with some of these guys, but I suspect most left on their own accord for better situations (possibly getting recruited over yes). Given that when Crean took over Sampson IU was eerily similar to Iowa's Lickliter years....needing practice players and walk on guys to come off the bench.

 

[Steve Waite]

The writing us on the wall for Ellingson. He won't even need to be "creaned"
Flemming has to realize he's probably next because he couldn't even beat out Ellingson.

With Bohannon coming in and Williams coming on like gang busters.
Jok will be able to play at his natural position next year at SG.
Moss & Hutton coming off of redshirts will be pushing for playing time at SG and SF.

 

[hooper56]

What Crean did to poor Maurice Creek is sinful. Poor kid hurts his knee and Crean sends him packing.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Certainly creates some interesting scenarios. Can one or both be a Brody Boyd caliber player (my minimum threshold to contribute in the big ten)? Does Fran think he has a shot at someone not on the radar currently or does he see a need he didn't anticipate a few months ago? With Weiskamp and White Magic Jr. coming in the following year, the window would seem to be pretty small for these guys.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

A quick Internet search reveals multiple articles that state Creek said the transfer was the best thing for him because he got to play close to family. Crean and his IU teammates have nothing but good things to say about him and he says he will always be a Hoosier. He had a solid year at George Washington and was an integral part of their team vs. likely not playing at IU. I suspect Pat Ingram and Kyle Meyer enjoyed playing vs. sitting and I am sure Trey Dickerson enjoys SDSU more than the end of the bench at Carver.
There are various levels of colleges for a reason and in some cases, guys have to accept their role as not good enough to play or be open to other situations. Coaches get about 3 years to turn things around and about 3 years of sub par seasons before they get asked to pursue other situations.