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That pic kind of looks like Underwood if he was 20 years younger.
Lol
reverse the situation and a statement declaring Michigan co-champs would have been issued within 10 minutes of the season ending.
Just the way the world works.
reverse the situation and a statement declaring Michigan co-champs would have been issued within 10 minutes of the season ending.
Just the way the world works.
I would have been completely fine if Ayo and Luka were named co-awardees. Ayo has had an unreal year, and he is so fun to watch.
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anon_qczsdwtnv6esw
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If Ayo wants to win it, he is more than welcome to return next year. Instead, I think he will choose to make several million dollars in the NBA. Fans are more irritated by this than I am sure Ayo is.
When your team goes out and wins 2 games on the road against ranked teams without you (Ayo), your value as POY goes down. He wasn't gonna win it regardless, cause Luka Garza also plays in the Big Ten.
Luka Garza is a great player. Ayo is a great player. Luka got the nod. Congrats.
I actually think the vast majority of Illinois fans have not “cried” about it. No one has dissed Luka. No one has said that he wasn’t deserving. Many have said they thought is should have been co-POYs. I’m guessing most Iowa fans would have said the same thing if situation was reversed. Illinois and Iowa fans justifiably love their guys. Two great players at different positions.
One All Big Ten team was Ayo and four centers. Shows how strong the big men were in the league.
I actually think the vast majority of Illinois fans have not “cried” about it. No one has dissed Luka. No one has said that he wasn’t deserving. Many have said they thought is should have been co-POYs. I’m guessing most Iowa fans would have said the same thing if situation was reversed. Illinois and Iowa fans justifiably love their guys. Two great players at different positions.
One All Big Ten team was Ayo and four centers. Shows how strong the big men were in the league.
Naw, statistically Garza was MUCH better. Even though Ayo missed a few games they still played about the same minutes with Luka scoring over 150 more points. Hey but Ayo did have twice as many turnovers though.
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It really doesn’t. Illinois caught lightning in a bottle. The culture that Underwood has developed showed through and they played great for two games without Ayo. I doubt that they could repeat that, though. Not a chance they win 16 games without Ayo.
They played different positions. Ayo was the first college player in 11 years and only the third in the last 25 years to average 21 points, 6 rebounds and 5 assists.
There is more to the game than scoring points.
Your post was the perfect example of downgrading a player to boost your own. Two great players. Garza got the nod. Congrats.
Look, I think Garza was very deserving and have no problem with him winning.
But Ayo is one of the better defenders in the conference. Garza is a liability on that end of the court. Voters don't really consider that very much, but when you bring up the STATS! argument, I'm going to point out this hypocrisy.
Those results say otherwise, but I digress. They have a really good team, no shame in that. Iowa lost Nunge who is a really good 6th man, and they've won games.
For me what makes it a no-brainer and why it should have been unanimous, is because only one player in the Big Ten faces double and triple teams night in and night out and that's Luka Garza. Don't do that and he's going for a minimum of 30 every night, cause Iowa plays inside out like no other.
Dickinson played him tough for sure and largely alone, but that was the exception not the rule. And it was one game.
That would be a valid point if it was a "most valuable player" award, but it isn't.
Luka plays defense like a guy who wants to remain on the court. He does just fine with the abilities he has IMO. He plays hard every possession, that's good enough for me.
Semantics don't matter, and Garza won it going away, which should shock nobody.
Luka isn’t a liability. He’s really damn good positionally, and while many don’t consider defensive rebounding part of the defensive possession, and therefor a defensive stat, I do. Always have—credit both my high school coaches as well as Dr. Tom.
I’ll say this—I’m just happy as shit that both Iowa and Illinois are good again. Growing up in the 80s it was such a great rivalry. I love that it feels revived.
It’s cool, too, that Demonte Williams has become such a vital piece. His dad and I played a lot of ball together growing up.
i think it’s pretty obvious to me that Luka meant more to his team than Ayo. I realize just pointing out the point differential would get some Illini fans feather’s ruffled (As intended) I’m really not as much of a “Hawkeye Homer” as you may think. Back in the day when Illinois was playing in St. Louis final four game I put on my orange shirt and went to the game with my Illinois alum buddy and cheered like hell for the Illini. Bet there aren’t many Illini fans that can say they dressed in black and gold to root for the Hawkeyes. And your post is a perfect example you can not see past your orange and blue glasses. Sour grapes.
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I looked at all stats steals, rebounds, blocked shots. The last couple years Garza improved almost as much on the defensive end as the offensive end.
Ehhh...must not be viewing the same social media comments than I am. They are down right cry babies and are bashing Luka because he won’t be an NBA star like Ayo has the potential to be.
Yes it does, which is why I think it says a lot that Luka was the BIG player of the year back to back. This league is as strong as its ever been with post players, (which is a bit of a rarity in todays game), and yet he put up AA numbers for the last two seasons against such strong competition.
The first couple of years yes, but Luka has made great strides this season as a post defender........
By nearly every stat that is used, including all the advanced metrics, Garza is a better player. College Basketball reference has Win Shares, Win Shares per 40 minutes, Box +/-, and more. Garza leads the country in Win shares, Offensive Win Shares, and is 4th in Win Shares per 40 minutes. Ayo is not in the top 10 in any of those measures nationally. Garza also leads the country in Box +/-, Ayo is not in the top 10 nationally.
Yes, Ayo is a better defensive player. Ayo's defensive BPM is 3.2 compared to 1.3 to Garza. College Basketball reference also has a PER (Player Efficiency Rating) in which Garza is at 35.4. If we look at conference games only this year, Garza is at 30.4, and Dosunmu at 23.3. Dosunmu has been very good/great, Garza has been historically great over the last 2 years. Dosunmu is 5th in the conference in Defensive Win Shares, that's good. Garza is 13th in the league, which puts to rest the notion that he is a terrible defender. PER has Kofi as a better player than Dosunmu, with Kofi's PER of 30 this year second in the conference.
There are a lot of numbers out there, and cumulatively they favor Garza. Both teams are good (Illinois has been better this year). Garza is the POY, and it's a solid case.
Exactly. Comparing TO numbers of a center vs a point guard in order to prove who the better player is is ridiculous on its face though.
Ah yes, the Illinois “culture” of Jimmy Collins, Lou Henson, Bill Self etc. Or just the “culture” that Underwood ran from after OSU. Or the “culture” that had him hire one of the nation’s notorious bagman. You must be so proud.
Is it “ridiculous“ to point out that 75 TO’s is A LOT of TO‘s no matter what position? Sure, he creates a lot but that is twice as many Bohannon. That is Tyler Cook territory in TOS.
THIS! The "culture" at illannoy is toxic and eternal. Look for Mad Brad to hit the trail sooner, rather than later. Rumor has it he'll land at either Kansas, or Kansas State before the posse catches up to him for his very dirty dealings. A fitting ending would have him leave the ill whine eye under probation, if not the death sentence. He's a crook, just like the rest of 'em.
I think you're wrong. Ayo will come out ultra-motivated. He uses everything he can to give himself an edge, and losing that is a slight to him.
Hilarious wishful thinking! This is what it looks like when you realize what you're going to be up against year in and year out.
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anon_qczsdwtnv6esw
Guest
My point was, he is not winning it this year because Luka won it. And next year, he will be probably in the NBA so he wont care. I was complimenting the kid and I wish him success at the next level.
Right, I'm just saying that Ayo won't perceive it as anything less than a slight - reality or not.
Ridiculous? No. Lacking context? A little.
First, Dosunmu has 72 TOs not 75. I know it's a nit pick but fudging stats in order to make a case actually undermines your case.
Second, Connor McCaffery ranks #1 in all of college basketball in assist/TO ratio. Dosunmu has 20 more assists than he does, and FORTY EIGHT(!) more turnovers (*clutching pearls and feeling faint*).
Third, in view of that, between the two, who would you pick on your team? (this answer has the most potential for entertainment).
Fourth, I wish the All-American voters could have been privy to your hot TO take before they voted. We might see a completely different team. lol
Come on dude....the right player won POY. Wasn't close actually but TOs had nothing to do with it. Nothing.
You missed my ENTIRE point when I pointed out the TO’s. Read my first post again and tell me you think TO‘s was a stat I heavily weighed. It was meant a little tongue in cheek to get under Illini fans skin but got you worked up the most. Nope, won’t trade Connor (or Ash for that matter) for Ayo. Sorry I got you so worked up on this.
Like I said, I don't at all disagree with the choice. And I appreciate the effort with the stats on defense but they really can't truly reflect an individual player's impact on that end of the court.
Garza is much more efficient, probably gets the most out of his abilities than any player I can think of over the past few decades. But Ayo does rank in the top 10 of something you can't measure - clutch plays, winning plays, killer plays.
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