OP just teach your kids to openly mock these sort of beliefs when they are brought up to them. It will only take once or twice and the in laws will get what is being thrown down and will back off the teaching of nonsense.
In-laws are young earth creationists and keep teaching it to my kids.
- Thread starter Raglefant
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Oh...............I don't know the answer to either of those, and I'm cool with that. Although some of the math behind M-Theory (i.e. String Theory) backs a cyclical universe, meaning that when any two membranes come into contact in one of the 7 higher dimensions then there's a big bang to big crunch and back again. And other math behind M-Theory backs a multiverse, meaning that when any two membranes come into contact in one of the 7 higher dimensions another big bang would happen.
If you'd like some further information about M-Theory then I highly recommend Dr. Brian Greene's Elegant Universe (a great book also), then you can watch the PBS Nova programs below:
well don't liberals say mankind is destroying the earth? Don't they also say we magically evolved here somehow by using and adapting to the earth and its resources? I would love to see what happens on a control earth with no dinosaurs and no humans. Would plants magically grow?
Wow, just wow. So going backwards in the universe timeline you believe in science, science, science, magic membranes.
That makes sense....
I know divine creation is viewed as magic to some however at some point, science is forced to provide evidence for creating something out of nothing, order from chaos, perfection from randomness. This does none of that. Untestable theories at best and that is no better than Greek Mythology could muster up. At some point, you have to take the leap of faith and believe in the unbelievable, something powerful enough to create.
The majestic and almighty Triune God created the
world and still sustains it. That is a truth that forms
the foundation of Christian beliefs. The age of the
earth is not given to us in the Christian Bible.
world and still sustains it. That is a truth that forms
the foundation of Christian beliefs. The age of the
earth is not given to us in the Christian Bible.
You do understand that speaking of the divine creating something is just pushing back the answer, as in... well what created the divine thing that created the universe, because the divine thing that created everything also had to be created. Our minds are too mired in timelines, like there has to be a zero point where everything started, but that's probably not the case at all, because if you believe in a creator than what created the creator.
You’ll have to ask the creator when/if you get that chance! Some things are incomprehensible to us humans.
That's intellectually dishonest, you're just throwing your hands in the air and saying, I don't know, therefore faith. I prefer, I don't know, but let's try and figure it out.
I never said I believed in membranes...........if you go re-read it, you will see that I said, "I don't know". I just said that is what some of the math says exists......and they wouldn't be "magic" membranes, because they are backed by the math. Magic is for things that are not backed by anything, such as Greek Mythology or some entity that according to you can "create". You do understand that there is absolutely no difference between Zeus from said Greek Mythology and the entity that you believe in, right?
If said entity is incomprehensible to us humans, then how can you be so sure about ANYTHING that you believe about it? Don't you see the faulty logic in that?
I’m just glad that after a dozen posts you finally figured out how to spell the thing you believe in.
That requires participation and thought that isn't passed-down and that provides a sense of security if you do it the way it's been done for 2,000 years.
It's just such a dumb argument, because what we're currently doing right now was completely inconceivable to people only what, 60 years ago? To think that we can't come up with answers to some great questions we have now is just silly. There's nothing wrong with saying, "I don't know, but let's work on it."
To fill the phrase, "I don't know" in with straight faith just strikes me as stupid.
They also had slaves, should we keep up with that too? They lived in a different era with different beliefs, should we never move past that?
I believe that the entity that we have collectively recognized, or have tried to conceive, as being "God" is closer to being realized all the time. As you said, we have advanced in ways that, 50-100 years ago, would have been absolutely inconceivable to people in that era.
The organized western religion version of a "Creator" that is essentially a super-human parental figure that floats in the clouds has obviously served its purpose in the minds of society. It is disconcerting, at the very least, when we still have people who refuse to move beyond that version because they believe there is some eternal fire pit that our physical bodies will be tortured for perpetuity once this body expires.
The Theory of Dick Heat?
So now your god is a dusty gas bag. Perfect, that will bring the dick heat.
If that's truly the case, then he/she/it is a very inefficient being, otherwise then why the need for quadrillion billion of other suns in the universe (more than all of the sand grains on Earth) and the multitude above that of planets in the universe? You would have thought he/she/it would've realized that all we needed was one sun and one planet and we were cool.
One of the things I tried to teach my children is that is impolite to tell people that their opinions are 100% wrong, even if they are.
Dude.....we can't understand his ways. He is too mysterious and all powerful and junk.
So reading a lot of comments I think there is actually more agreement than disagreement and that’s good.
Where we are at in the early 21st century is a concept of a universe that has expanded (and contracted) over time. I personally believe God spoke the Universe into creation and others believe there was an “event.”
The brightest minds of our time have never been able to explain how creation comes from nothingness. How something comes from nothing. A lot of opinions take us back as far as the moment of the Big-Bang, the singularity, or the moment God created the universe but we have not been able to go back further than that. Some postulate that we should not look at time as linear. Interesting but so for scientifically unproveable and still leaves many big questions unanswered.
Albert Einstein did not get this far. Stephen Hawking defended the big-bang theory up till his final days even with new evidence for alternative theories thrown at him but in the end. All were theories (Einstein’s theory of relativity at least was positively tested on a very small scale). So we are stuck with theories and nothing to explain where creation come from. I’m cool with more scientific exploration of these ideas. I am excited to hear reports that more physicists are finding evidence for a divine creator as their research leads them down paths that only conclude at a creator.
Back to the OP, these are the questions you should be teaching your kids to explore. Tell your kids that Einstein, Hawking, and the hundred or so Nobel-Prize winning Physicists/Billionaires on HROT still could not figure it out. This is what makes for good conversation.
Where we are at in the early 21st century is a concept of a universe that has expanded (and contracted) over time. I personally believe God spoke the Universe into creation and others believe there was an “event.”
The brightest minds of our time have never been able to explain how creation comes from nothingness. How something comes from nothing. A lot of opinions take us back as far as the moment of the Big-Bang, the singularity, or the moment God created the universe but we have not been able to go back further than that. Some postulate that we should not look at time as linear. Interesting but so for scientifically unproveable and still leaves many big questions unanswered.
Albert Einstein did not get this far. Stephen Hawking defended the big-bang theory up till his final days even with new evidence for alternative theories thrown at him but in the end. All were theories (Einstein’s theory of relativity at least was positively tested on a very small scale). So we are stuck with theories and nothing to explain where creation come from. I’m cool with more scientific exploration of these ideas. I am excited to hear reports that more physicists are finding evidence for a divine creator as their research leads them down paths that only conclude at a creator.
Back to the OP, these are the questions you should be teaching your kids to explore. Tell your kids that Einstein, Hawking, and the hundred or so Nobel-Prize winning Physicists/Billionaires on HROT still could not figure it out. This is what makes for good conversation.
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In all fairness, science does the same thing. Science just uses elaborate terms to say “we don’t know where/how it all came from either.”
no we should never move past the fact that there was a creator. no. or the fact that people have faith. now, science can move on and discoveries are made. but disproving faith is very hard to do . maybe impossible.
or be closed minded and just say the people who believe in a higher power are weirdos.
I assumed he was talking about Dan Devine. Bastard created the universe, but wouldn't put in Rudy.
To be fair, you have to be introspective enough to admit that you're a weirdo.
I have my own theory. I don't time began. There never was a beginning and there will be no end. We are trying to put parameters on what is not definable. That is why I don't buy into religion and find it humorous how we struggle to explain our accidental existence in this vastness of space.
Except with science they say, "we don't know where/how it all came from either, but let's try and find out."
In the focus of the original point of this thread being about Evangelical Christians who believe the earth is 6,000 years old..... they don't do that. From personal experience in the Evangelical community, they aren't seeking answers, they know everything very concretely. I don't think this thread is about Christianity as a whole, just this sect of Christianity, which I am all too familiar with. My family, myself included until.... 25'ish in age subscribes/subscribed to this belief. There is no wiggle room with this group, they are incredibly convicted and confirmation bias runs rampant. I see my nieces and nephews being indoctrinated with this stuff and I generally smile and nod to keep the peace, because it's a pointless conversation. They're going to have to figure it out for themselves, just like myself. All in all they're good people, they just subscribe to a belief system that has no basis in reality. They lobby hard against things based on pure faith and a belief system that is completely unsupported by observable scientific fact, and I think that is a dangerous thing. If it were up to them, science would be completely removed from the classrooms (at least the ones they disagree with, but science is ****ing science). I know these people, I was this person... I get it... and I completely understand their mindset.
Edit: Because I've spoken about Catholocism frequently, I grew up Catholic but my simblings are much older than me and they all became born again Evangelical Christians, so I got the double whammy of dogmatic nonsense.
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well, I dunno about 6000 years but I do think we were dropped here , not evolved here. dropped by a god or a n alien or perhaps they are one and the same. it may have been 6000 years ago, I dunno. I think the earth was here already. I think the entity which chose this earth for us got it right: we can live off the resources and air and water. and we cannot destroy the earth just by living here-no matter how hard we try . they picked it for us and they hit a home run. whomever they may be.
Pretty spot on. People have a narrative bias and want a beginning, middle and end. My understanding a tenet of the big bang theory is that time and space are thought to have begun at the time of the big bang and are going forward infinitely. What if time and space are also infinite into the past. Then there is no beginning or end.
Second, the only thing that separates us from other mammals is our thumbs and our brains. Outside of that our basic needs are the same. Food, water, and reproduction. In the vastness of time and space we are just a speck of dust, a nano second. It is very likely that lifeforms like us and even superior to us will exist. What makes us so certain that a divine creator would make us the chosen ones. It's quite likely that we are simply an accident. A random genetic mutation.
I gotta admit, that's pretty much me. About the only thing I do believe in is that I'm pretty sure an old bearded white guy in the sky didn't create all this.
While I understand for human beings (idiots that we are) need answers, dammit...these are answers personally that I refuse to allow seeking them to dominate my life.
You believe in God, a Baby Raptor Jesus...whatever, that's nice dear. You believe in the Big Bang etc, that's OK for you too. Just allow me the respect and freedom I bestowed upon you right there to disagree with either or both.
I get brow beaten enough every day of my life to allow either side do it to me over this subject.
I tend to sleep rather well as a result.
