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Indiana enlists NRA to train National Guard on firearms

cigaretteman

HB King
May 29, 2001
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The National Rifle Association has been instructing Indiana's National Guard members on how to use concealed weapons after Republican Gov. Mike Pence directed the state's military bases and training centers to beef up security in response to recent attacks in Tennessee.

According to a survey by The Associated Press, Indiana is the only state to enlist the NRA's help in the training, which the gun-rights group says it will conduct free of charge for any guardsman who wants to carry a concealed handgun.

Although National Guard members traditionally have not been allowed to carry weapons while conducting most stateside duties, Pence is one of 14 governors who decided to arm them in the wake of a gunman's attacks last month on two U.S. military sites in Chattanooga that left four Marines dead.

Gun control advocates argue it's inappropriate for a state to involve a political lobbying organization in training members of the military, and even some National Guard officials from states that allow guardsmen to carry weapons question why a civilian organization is needed.

"This is a military problem to deal with, so we're going to deal with it with the military," said Lt. Col. Joel Lynch, a spokesman for the Arkansas National Guard, which is handling the training of its Guard members itself.

As governor, Pence has wide-ranging powers over the Indiana National Guard and appoints the adjutant general who oversees operations.

Pence spokeswoman Kara Brooks declined to comment and directed inquiries to the Indiana National Guard. Guard spokeswoman Lt. Col. Cathy Van Bree said guard instructors have previously offered handgun instruction themselves but that Pence's executive order last month allowing guardsmen to be armed requires a "deeper level of training." She did not elaborate.

In order to be armed, a guardsman must have a valid conceal-carry permit and undergo training. Van Bree declined to say how many members have been approved to be armed.

Guy Relford, an NRA instructor who recently trained about 65 Indiana guardsmen at an armory in Franklin, said his "basic pistol" course delves into safety scenarios on when and when not to shoot.

Without training, the National Guard has "dramatically increased the possibility that someone could hurt themselves or others with a gun," Relford said.

The AP survey of the 14 states that have armed their National Guards shows that most states had members of the military or law enforcement conduct the training. Only Indiana, Arkansas, Florida, Kentucky and Oklahoma said they allow guardsmen to carry concealed weapons. At least seven others — including the largest state of California — allow Guard members to carry weapons in plain sight. Officials in Alabama declined to release information about their firearms rules for guardsmen, while the Texas National Guard wouldn't say if concealed handguns were allowed.
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"The fact is, our folks are very comfortable in using weapons and using discernment in when they use those weapons, so having an outside agency involved is a little bit of a surprise," Capt. Will Martin, a spokesman for the California National Guard, said of Indiana's policy.

Eric Dietz, a professor at Purdue University who studies homeland security issues, said his research suggests causalities in some active shooter situations could be reduced if someone, such as a guardsman, has a concealed handgun.

Although more known for its role as an advocacy group, the NRA also frequently conducts handgun training programs for civilians. Relford says most Guard members don't get pistol training from the military, and those who do are taught using the standard 9mm. Pence's policy applies to a vast array of firearms ranging from a .22-caliber up to a .357 Magnum.

There are also legal and philosophical considerations because the military's overarching focus is on threats abroad, not at home, which is the traditional role of law enforcement.

Allowing different states to adopt different training methods also goes against the grain of military orthodoxy.

"You don't want to have the Indiana National Guardsmen trained a certain way that may be different from Illinois or Kentucky. There does have to be a standard across the board," said David Harris, a former adjutant general of the Illinois National Guard and now a Republican legislator, who supports the idea of arming guardsmen.

The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence criticized Pence for recruiting the NRA, suggesting the organization is "first and foremost" a "lobbying organization."

"There is no institution better equipped to train our servicemen and women than the US military itself," Dan Gross, the Brady Campaigns president said. "This is not a job for lobbyists."

Robert Dion a professor of political science at the University of Evansville, said Pence could reap political benefits in his upcoming re-election campaign by reaching out to the NRA in pro-gun Indiana.

"Any sort of association with the NRA helps his reputation more than it hurts it," Dion said. "You can burnish your social conservative credentials by cozying up to the NRA and you can claim being fiscally responsible because you are not costing tax payers anything."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...ana-nra-firearms-training-20150821-story.html
 
I'm sorry, but why would any soldier who's already been trained on weapons and weapon safety need additional training on weapons. Was basic training not enough? It was for a lot of states. Why not Indiana?

Sounds to me like Indiana needs to change it's laws, and not involve the NRA. It seems like a slap in the face to the National Guard really.
 
I'm sorry, but why would any soldier who's already been trained on weapons and weapon safety need additional training on weapons. Was basic training not enough? It was for a lot of states. Why not Indiana?

Sounds to me like Indiana needs to change it's laws, and not involve the NRA. It seems like a slap in the face to the National Guard really.
I pulled this from the article it probably answers your question.

Relford says most Guard members don't get pistol training from the military, and those who do are taught using the standard 9mm. Pence's policy applies to a vast array of firearms ranging from a .22-caliber up to a .357 Magnum.

Say what you want about the NRA but they do have good training programs.
 
I pulled this from the article it probably answers your question.

Relford says most Guard members don't get pistol training from the military, and those who do are taught using the standard 9mm. Pence's policy applies to a vast array of firearms ranging from a .22-caliber up to a .357 Magnum.

Say what you want about the NRA but they do have good training programs.
I have no idea. Would the Guard ever likely use any of the guns the NRA is training them on?
 
I guess I don't see why anyone would have a problem with this. The type of training the military would give is vastly different from the training you would get in a conceal carry course. These people are going to receive conceal carry permits that they would use in their daily lives.

One thing almost everyone can agree on is people who are carrying weapons in pubic places need to be trained, no one offers better training than the NRA.
 
In many ways, this was kind of the original purpose of the NRA. To train people on the safe use of firearms. Such a shame that they had to turn this goal into one big political movement to sell guns.
 
In many ways, this was kind of the original purpose of the NRA. To train people on the safe use of firearms. Such a shame that they had to turn this goal into one big political movement to sell guns.
No, the way I understood it, part of the reason the NRA was started was to allow for blacks to be armed. (my wording probably isn't exactly accurate but you get the point.)
 
I have no idea. Would the Guard ever likely use any of the guns the NRA is training them on?
Good question. It makes sense only if the NRA training includes the guns the Guard uses.

As for the NRA's move to the political side I think they took a very hard line when it came to restrictions on guns and their members supported that. I don't think they are interesting in selling guns but they want their members to be able to buy them.
 
when I was in the military we got very little in the way of small arms training unless you were in a specific field that required it such as infantry.
 
I pulled this from the article it probably answers your question.

Relford says most Guard members don't get pistol training from the military, and those who do are taught using the standard 9mm. Pence's policy applies to a vast array of firearms ranging from a .22-caliber up to a .357 Magnum.

Say what you want about the NRA but they do have good training programs.

I was in the military. I know what is trained. You receive weapons training in the military. It doesn't matter that you don't receive a specific weapons training. The principles are still the same.

I never needed additional training on any weapon I've had outside the military. I bought them and learned how to place the weapon on safe and fire. I learned how to chamber rounds. I learned on my own how to break them down and clean them.

I didn't need the NRA to show me how to any of this. The Guard doesn't need the NRA either.
 
I guess I don't see why anyone would have a problem with this. The type of training the military would give is vastly different from the training you would get in a conceal carry course. These people are going to receive conceal carry permits that they would use in their daily lives.

One thing almost everyone can agree on is people who are carrying weapons in pubic places need to be trained, no one offers better training than the NRA.

You think the military has to be trained?
 
when I was in the military we got very little in the way of small arms training unless you were in a specific field that required it such as infantry.

The basic principles for any weapon are the same.

Do you know what are considered small arms? The rifle you shot in basic training. What else did you shoot in basic? It was small arms.
 
You think the military has to be trained?
Did you even read the effin article? To be able to carry they need to have a conceal carry permit. To get the permit they have to go through the conceal carry training. The military does not do conceal carry training the NRA does.

A full frame 1911 really isn't a great gun for conceal carry getting trained on pocket 9 that you were going to carry isn't a bad idea.
 
Did you even read the effin article? To be able to carry they need to have a conceal carry permit. To get the permit they have to go through the conceal carry training. The military does not do conceal carry training the NRA does.

A full frame 1911 really isn't a great gun for conceal carry getting trained on pocket 9 that you were going to carry isn't a bad idea.

Oh I read the article. There were plenty that objected to the idea of the NRA giving worthless training to the military.

Oh so you're saying the military can't give concealed carry training? Riiight.

In the state of Iowa, you don't need to go through concealed carry training if you were I the military to get that permit. If you make it through basic training, the state understands that you probably know what the f*** you're doing.

It's not that hard to understand.
 
This is actually a very smart and prudent idea. the objections are silly and most obviously politically motivated.
 
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Smart move to allow experts in the safe and proper use of firearms to give this training. I wish only more states would think like this.
 
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Oh I read the article. There were plenty that objected to the idea of the NRA giving worthless training to the military.

Oh so you're saying the military can't give concealed carry training? Riiight.

In the state of Iowa, you don't need to go through concealed carry training if you were I the military to get that permit. If you make it through basic training, the state understands that you probably know what the f*** you're doing.

It's not that hard to understand.
No I'm not saying the military can't give concealed training, I'm saying they don't give concealed training. They train on weapons in a war theater, not in a movie theater or Walmart where these weekend warriors will be able to carry the 90% of the time they are not on guard duty.

And guess what! The NRA is doing the training for FREE! Only an idiot would who has a bug up his ass about the NRA or has the mindset the "I'm Military damn it, nothing can trump that", would have a problem with this.
 
National guard is not the military. It is a state militia.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought they actually went through basic with active military. I thought they actually deployed to places like Iraq an Afghanistan.

Don't be stupid.
 
No I'm not saying the military can't give concealed training, I'm saying they don't give concealed training. They train on weapons in a war theater, not in a movie theater or Walmart where these weekend warriors will be able to carry the 90% of the time they are not on guard duty.

And guess what! The NRA is doing the training for FREE! Only an idiot would who has a bug up his ass about the NRA or has the mindset the "I'm Military damn it, nothing can trump that", would have a problem with this.

Guess what? The military would do it for free!

You are simply just a person who refuses to be educated about the military. Have you ever taken a concealed carry course? There is nothing the NRA could teach the military.

This entire thing is nothing but a political ploy. You seem too simple to realize it.
 
Guess what? The military would do it for free!

You are simply just a person who refuses to be educated about the military. Have you ever taken a concealed carry course? There is nothing the NRA could teach the military.

This entire thing is nothing but a political ploy. You seem too simple to realize it.
Yes the military would do it for free as long as the trainers are paid, by the military. :rolleyes:
 
Oh I'm sorry, I thought they actually went through basic with active military. I thought they actually deployed to places like Iraq an Afghanistan.

Don't be stupid.
It's part of the reserves, but it's primary role is as state militia. The objective for the training this post is about applies only to that role.
 
Yes the military would do it for free as long as the trainers are paid, by the military. :rolleyes:

Hey smart guy. Military trainers are paid regardless of whether they are training or not. Everyone is paid a salary.

Two things are abundantly clear about you.

One. You are clearly ignorant when it comes to the military.

Two. Your lack of respect because of your ignorance.
 
It's part of the reserves, but it's primary role is as state militia. The objective for the training this post is about applies only to that role.

Wow. Great argument..... So you're just going to ignore the fact that they are trained in the exact same way as active duty soldiers?

Yet another poster who has zero clue.
 
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