Interesting read during this slow time.

[championhawk]

This may not be a great example but in basketball they argue who has the best team. Not who has the best number 5 player and bench. Give me the team with the NCAA mvp and 3 first team AA's over the team with 5 3rd team all conference and the 6th man of the year.

 

[MSU158]

There are so many variables when doing these comparisons, I find it funny anyone thinks they are so absolutely correct. But, this is the Internet so......One thing I would like to see is a fully impartial viewpoint. Take the guys from 1983 and put them in the 2001 or 2012, put 2001 in 1983 or 2012 and put 2012 in 1983 or 2001. A great for instance, Hahn took 5th(and many are dismissing him for that finish), but he finished behind Sanderson, Cormier, Sveda and Hrovat losing to Cormier and Hrovat. In 1983 Goldman had Schultz and that was really it. Wright had Bosak(still way behind Sanderson and Cormier) and Hamlin and Bennett who are at best comparable with Hrovat. Still, even with all that information, how in the hell do you really expect to predict a fair outcome?

My viewpoint(admittedly still a complete guess) listing toughest brackets per weight:

118/125: 2001-Super deep(Abas, Strittmater and Vega were beasts and Powell went 0-2), 2012- McDonough and Sanders were the class of the field, it dropped off a ton after that but Megaludis beating Sanders was a big surprise. 1983-3 unseededs placed and the 7 seed ran through the bracket. I think Riley takes a beating in this weight class. Vega>Megaludis>Riley

126/133:2012-Doesn't really matter, Martellotti was a DNP. I would put 1983 and 2001 pretty even, but Davis wins either bracket easily and Lawrence most likely finishes about the same. Davis>Lawrence>Martellotti

134/141:2001-Lightner, Schwab and Larkin make this the top weight. 2012-Doesn't really matter since PSU DNQ. other than to say if Kerber and Erikson would still place. 1983-No real standout or returning stud. Kerber=Erikson>>DNQ

142/149:1983-Burley, Freeman and Kistler make this the premiere bracket. 2001 was probably the deepest bracket with Frayer as the 8 seed. 2012-Molinaro was clearly the man, but this was not a deep weight. All 3 of these guys are very close, but I will put Molinaro ahead by a little.

150/157: All 3 years were SUPER TOP HEAVY. I would say 2001 was probably the deepest. Alton isn't taking 3rd in either bracket. Heffernan=Becker>Alton

157/165: 2001 was definitely the deepest by far with Pritzlaff, Heskett, Lackey, Waller(DNP) and Blackford. Pike taking 4th here was solid. As good as Zalesky and Taylor were they could easily have also been wrestling for 3rd in that bracket. Still I would say Taylor=Zalesky>>Pike.

167/174: I would give a very slight nod to 2012 over 2001 and 1983 was very thin after Sheets. If Rico didn't place here you can't just put him ahead of Volkmann. Ruth>Volkmann>Chip

177/184: I am not convinced that they all don't take the same place if they switch spots in each bracket. Obviously 2001 and 1983 get the nod for being the most top heavy by quite a bit. All 3 wrestlers are very, very close.

190/197: 1983 was deep. Banach beat a very tough Mann in the Finals. Banach is the clear man here but Elzen had a great tournament. Banach>Elzen>>McIntosh

HWT: Banach was a beast and 1983 was a solid weight. 2012 was actually a deep weight but Wade has no business being discussed with either guy. Lowney was actually at his best his first year. He lost a heartbreaker in OT to the much bigger Lockhart who would go on to beat Rowlands in the finals. He was the Greco Roman rep each year after this and I think that focus actually hurt him as his Collegiate career went on. Still, I don't expect Banach to run away with the score as if he wasn't careful he could get thrown, I would more likely see a smart controlled 8-4ish type win. Banach>Lowney>>>Wade

 

[jammenz]

This may not be a great example but in basketball they argue who has the best team.

And wouldn't they decide who has the best team by actually having the teams play each other, not by seeing which individuals do best at the all-star game? You can add the 2012 PSU team to their 20 year losing dual streak to Minny: 23-14 with Mega, Alton, and Q all losing.

 

[MSU158]

Even a dual meet would be brutally hard to predict and nearly impossible to stay impartial even as a neutral fan. I would obviously be more likely to favor 2001 or 2012 as I was not quite 7 in 1983 and didn't have near the access to watch them wrestle then.

Still here is my attempted exercise in futility.

125:Vega beats Mega by close decision and majors Riley. Megaludis beats Riley. Minn 4-0 over Iowa. Minn 3-0 over PSU. PSU 3-0 over Iowa.
133avis majors Lawrence and techs Martellotti. Lawrence beats Mart. Minn 4-4 Iowa. Minn 7-0 over PSU. Iowa 5-3 over PSU.
141:True tossup but I give those to Iowa especially then. Kerber over Erikson. Both beat PSU by major. Iowa7-4Minn Minn11-0PSU Iowa 9-3PSU
149:Gotta give slight nod to a champ. Molinaro beats both in close matches. Lawrence beats Kistler. Iowa7-7Minn Minn11-3PSU Iowa 9-6PSU
157:Heffernan and Becker would be a great match. Alton is behind them. Give it to Heff. Iowa 10-7 Minn, Minn 14-3 PSU, Iowa 12-6 PSU
165:I have a hard time picking against Zalesky. Both he and Taylor major Pike. Iowa 14-7 Minn, Minn 14-7 PSU, Iowa 15-6 PSU
174:Ruth majors both. Volkmann beats Rico. Iowa 14-10 Minn, Minn 14-11 PSU, Iowa 15-10 PSU
184:A true 3 way tossup. You have as much luck drawing out of a hat, so I did! Iowa 17-10 Minn, Minn 17-11 PSU, Iowa 18-10 PSU
197:Banach by decision over Elzen and major over McIntosh. Elzen over McIntosh. Iowa 20-10 Minn, Minn 20-11 PSU, Iowa 22-10 PSU
285:Banach by decision over Lowney and pin over Wade. Lowney over Wade. Iowa 23-10 Minn, Minn 23-11 PSU, Iowa 25-10 PSU

Minnesota would have to win at 141,157 and 184 while still holding 125 and 149 and 174 to beat Iowa. Don't see it happening.

PSU would need Megaludis to beat Vega, Wright to beat Hahn and either Ruth to win by more than a major or Erikson to win by less than a major to beat Minnesota.

I don't see PSU beating Iowa even with best case scenario. Alton would have to beat Heffernan, Taylor beat Zalesky and Wright beat Goldman while Mega, Molinaro and Ruth would still have to win. Not likely.

 

[a_mshaffer]

83 Iowa v. 01 Minnesota in a dual setting

Riley v. Vega: Vega Dec (3-0 MN)
Davis v. Lawrence: Davis at least a tech (5-3 IA)
Kerber v. Erikson: Kerber Dec (8-3 IA)
Kistler v. Lawerence: Lawrence Dec (8-6 IA)
Heffernan v Becker: Heffernan Dec (11-6 IA)
Zalesky v. Pike: Zalesky at least a major (15-6 IA)
Chiaperrelli v. Volkman: Rico Dec (18-6 IA)
Goldman v. Hahn: Goldman Dec (21-6 IA)
Banach v. Elzen: Maj Banach (24-6 IA)
Banach v. Lowney: Maj Banach (28-6 IA)

I gave MN the toss-up at 25 and Iowa the toss up at 57. Davis, Zalesky and E. Banach could all pin. I suppose Goldman-Hahn could have went the other way, but I would not bet on that.

I might put 83 Iowa #1 overall.

got to stick to the team concept in the era - similar to baseball - and not matchup as you cannot say a wrestler in the 70's at a certain weight would win today. A lot has changed with training, etc. Heck, just look at tilts!

 

[Flying_Tiger]

And wouldn't they decide who has the best team by actually having the teams play each other, not by seeing which individuals do best at the all-star game? You can add the 2012 PSU team to their 20 year losing dual streak to Minny: 23-14 with Mega, Alton, and Q all losing.

Yet all 3 placed ahead at nationals with Mega defeating Sanders straight up 7-4. If that dual was at the end of the year instead of early November, Penn State would of won. It's called peaking, something many Minnesota fans have become unfamiliar with this decade. 01 Minnesota was nothing but a novelty. Lots of teams better, LOTS.

20 year losing streak is inaccurate. Penn State tied in 2011 and under current tie breaker criteria would of won. Not to mention the screw job up north on gopher senior day or the fact PSU would annihilated Minnesota this year if they were scheduled.

Here's an accurate statement for you, Penn State has placed ahead of Minnesota 6 consecutive NCAAs, you know the thing that matters.

 

[moug]

And wouldn't they decide who has the best team by actually having the teams play each other, not by seeing which individuals do best at the all-star game? You can add the 2012 PSU team to their 20 year losing dual streak to Minny: 23-14 with Mega, Alton, and Q all losing.

How's your Minny/Nebby All Star team coming together this year?

 

[horraybeer]

Msu158. In 2001 Hahn lost his 1st match to Scott Justus (also beat Hahn in the regular season). Hahn did not wrestle Cormier.

 

[jammenz]

Not to mention the screw job up north on gopher senior day...

Yes, if only Cael had known the rules. And you're right, the duals were not all losses. Penn State does have a tie to their credit in the last 20 years.

 

[MSU158]

Msu158. In 2001 Hahn lost his 1st match to Scott Justus (also beat Hahn in the regular season). Hahn did not wrestle Cormier.

My bad, you are 100% correct. He lost 6-5 to Justus and then won 5 in a row before losing to Hrovat. It was Hrovat that lost to Cormier and then dropped to beat Hahn in consi-semis.

 

[OldDKL]

What is funny about this is that arguably the best IOWA team wasn't even mentioned. The 1992 team had 9 returning All-Americans and 6 returning national finalist from the previous year. Set the NCAA record for points per duel and margin of victory per duel (36.9 points). In duels that year against the 3rd, 4th, 5th & 6th place teams at nationals they won by an average score of 34.5 to 9.5. Of coarse 9 All-Americans all placing 5th or higher. The problem was #7 seed and returning finalist Mark Reiland went 2-2. May have been the best chance Gable had for 10 All-americans.

 

[championhawk]

And wouldn't they decide who has the best team by actually having the teams play each other, not by seeing which individuals do best at the all-star game? You can add the 2012 PSU team to their 20 year losing dual streak to Minny: 23-14 with Mega, Alton, and Q all losing.

They are from two different years numb nuts. Everyone besides you would take the team with the 3 NBA lottery picks and a second round selection You would take the team with 5 guys destined to use their college degrees to make a living.

 

[24 so far]

2001 Minnesota over 1983 Iowa is an absolute joke.

Minnesota is listed where it is for one reason and one reason only (and they should not be, you are correct).

I guess Google was broken the day this article was written.

Edit: Mucho props for 10 AA's but................c'mon now.