Well, as much as it drives Dems crazy..... developing Donbas would greatly harm Putin's economy. Who was trying to help develop Burisma?
Is ALL of Ukraine Committed to the War Against Russia?
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
- Start date
They don’t seem to be committed. I saw an interview where a young guy in Kiev said what does he care what happens in Bakmut.
Would be like someone bombing the shit out of new York and the Midwest saying “who cares”.
When that happens our country is done.
Would be like someone bombing the shit out of new York and the Midwest saying “who cares”.
When that happens our country is done.
I would cheer. Because Texas. America would be better off without them.
Well, OK, I wouldn't cheer.
Speaking as someone who has been to Ukraine as recently as 8 months ago. Yes western Ukraine is "safer" but Lviv is getting bombed fairly regularly now. Windows getting blown out and buildings destroyed all the while people are dying. The men are required to fight. Some of young men we were just finishing training just got their first letters to be ready in less than 30 to go to war.
The people there hate everything about Russia and Putin. They will not just roll over and let Putin win. They will die trying to win. It their country and they don't want to go back to communism.
Poland seems to be turning against Ukraine in some reports I've seen. Not sure what's going on with them. Do you have any idea.
Wait. Hunter Biden was our secret weapon to bring down Russia's economy?
I can see Putin wanting to add Georgia and Moldova to his game bag, but beyond that is a stretch. Russia already has footholds in both, and there was conflict for a while in Georgia.
As I recall, the Georgia conflict erupted around the time when it was making noises about joining NATO. Joining NATO for Russia is like shifting oil sales out of dollars for the US.
As I recall, the Georgia conflict erupted around the time when it was making noises about joining NATO. Joining NATO for Russia is like shifting oil sales out of dollars for the US.
The confinement of males within Ukraine and the mandatory conscription are what have kept me in the agnostic camp on this war. Our “support” for various countries’ war efforts have meant certain death for countless young male proxies around the globe for decades. I hear talk, among people I generally respect, about this war being a great bargain for the USA—I see that sentiment as callous at best, leaning towards ghoulish.
The tipping point is that this war was thrust onto Ukraine to defend itself, while Russia attacked without being provoked. You can try to avoid all the fights but if someone comes and punches you in the mouth, then its go time. Slava Ukraini.
I see
Not all Ukrainians see this as unprovoked by the west. Overwhelmingly they dontbwant Russia. Overwhelmingly they dont want to die for a $5200 a year life and a corrupt govt. What ya'll dont get is the Govt keeps them poor. Judges go to the higher bidder. Farmers cabt put up roadside stands with out mafia visits. Police stop you for know reasons and steal from you. Run for office and at best you get a major tax audit you cant win. You are a small farmer and you buy an old tractor theblocal big farmer (100k acres or more) wants it and seems now that you stole it and you go to prison. Mayors sell a tract of land for $20k and the mayor make 200k.
Its a mixed up mess I dont want to see Des Moines blown up for. And many Urainians want to die over.
Where the US screwed up was no Marshall Plan for the rubble of the Soviet Union demise.
Good chance this doesnt end well. Dont know what that looks like from this view.
I do know that until Russia is a complete ally and proxy for China Russia cant take more than Moldova (if he gets the land bridge there)and Georgia unless NATO goes away.
It is a screwed up mess.
Not to mention leaving a disproportionate number of young women available to traffic.
Wars are great for human traffickers as well as profiteers.
You have farmers who have seen their prices hurt by Ukrainian production going into the EU.
Not aware of anything else.
I'm guessing Putin thought he'd have an easier time snagging Odessa, but the drive fizzled out on the road to Mykolaiv. With Mykolaiv salted away, Transnistria (Moldova) puts Russia in position for a pincer movement on Odessa.
If you study Putin, he is vindictive. Back in I think 2014 his forces got whacked by US trained and supplied AZOV (I hate the US teamed with AZOV but they were the only effective fighting force) at Mariupol. So he destroyed Mariupol. Kharkiv has been a hotbed of resistance against Russia. He is prepping a move against Kharkiv.
Odesa aside from a military move to secure the Black Sea, was where Ukraine Nationalists burned to death 40 some agents from Georgia that were Putin proxies to stir up trouble for Ukraine at a soccer match. So, he also loathes Odesa.
Also noticing more and more Russian presence in Syria near Israel. Would not surprise me if he's motivated to damage Middle East oil supply chains in his economy that is 1/3 dependent on gas/oil. He is also wearing down US supplies. His economy is nearly (prewar) 25% military weapons that are lower tech, cheap, and effective.
So Ukraine is still somewhat corrupt just like the Soviet Union they were once part of-not much of a surprise.
And as far as a Marshall Plan-what for? It is not like the Soviet Union was brought down by any war.
The West helped to pay for the security and return to Russia of the Soviet weapons after the break up of of the Soviet Union. The US made an agreement (Trilateral Process) to support Ukraine in exchange for them returning the many nukes store there to Russian control-an agreement we did not stick to.
Western Europe has also been buying fuel from Russia for decades, partly as an attempt to drawn them into normal relations with the rest of Europe. Instead Putin used that linkage in an attempt to blackmail Europe from reacting to his invasion of Ukraine. This is all on Russia and an old dictator trying to grab some glory before he dies.
The US had an opportunity. There was a huge vacuum. filled by theft by former communist officials. If you follow the logic and look closely at the situation and it relates to the thread, do Ukrainians are no longer running to the army recruitment office, nor are they responding to a notice of draft. Do they won't Putin gone? Overwhelmingly. Do they want their kids to die for the current govt.... pretty firmly no. That isn't hard to understand. You can ha ha ha all you want, but the situation is very sad. Losing Des Moines or IC would be very sad.
Sometimes it seems Joe and others (and at times you) see this as a Big Ten football game to win and so what if it's Russian or Ukrainian death. It's human tragedy and your approach is sickening. As is Somalia, Ruwanda, the Balkans, Azerbaijan, and others. Nobody hardly gave a crap about Osseita. Why Ukraine?
Somewhat corrupt? You really don't know what you are talking about or are a bot. Can't tell which. Most likely your face is very up Biden's ass and your hatred (I don't support him either) of Trump.
Yeah, but the lackluster generals had the same resources behind them.
Mark Clark won’t ever be confused with George Patton when it comes to getting results.
Leadership is more than happenstance.
We live in a country where if one half says the sky is blue, chances are the other half will argue until they're hoarse that it isn't.
Far be it for us to argue over whether someone who has probably had his family tree assassinated or pogrammed to near extinction several times by another nearby country decides to sit this one out.
Far be it for us to argue over whether someone who has probably had his family tree assassinated or pogrammed to near extinction several times by another nearby country decides to sit this one out.
Getting tired of yelling in the well seminole? Don't you hate it when no one's listening.
You're obviously listening, and can't help but respond.
What I hate is that you don't have an answer.
Neocon policies have created another slaughter, and when it's looked back on it'll be seen as a policy mistake like the others.
Neocons created the mess in Ukraine. Well, I won't know where you MAGA nutcases have to go to come up with this garbage, but I won't patronize it.
Don't look now, but they're preparing you for a new reality:
Washington Post
With no way out of a worsening war, Zelensky’s options look bad or worse
KYIV — As Russia steps up airstrikes and once again advances on the battlefield in Ukraine more than two years into its bloody invasion, there is no end to the fighting in sight. And President Volodymyr Zelensky’s options for what to do next — much less how to win the war — range from bad to worse.
Zelensky has said Ukraine will accept nothing less than the return of all its territory, including land that Russia has controlled since 2014. But with the battle lines changing little in the last year, militarily retaking the swaths of east and south Ukraine that Russia now occupies — about 20 percent of the country — appears increasingly unlikely.
Negotiating with Russian President Vladimir Putin to end the war — something Zelensky has rejected as long as Russian troops remain on Ukrainian land — is politically toxic. The Ukrainian public is hugely opposed to surrendering territory, and Putin has shown no willingness to accept anything short of Ukraine’s capitulation to his demands.
The status quo is awful. With the fight now a grinding stalemate, Ukrainians are dying on the battlefield daily. But a cease-fire is also a nonstarter, Ukrainians say, because it would just give the Russians time to replenish their forces. ...
“How will Zelensky get out of this situation? I have no idea,” said a Ukrainian lawmaker who, like other officials and diplomats interviewed for this article, spoke on the condition of anonymity to be candid about the highly sensitive politics. “And of course it concerns me.”
Most tricky for Zelensky will be managing his own country’s expectations. Support for him among Ukrainians remains high, but after two years of war and steep casualties, the “solidarity is fraying,” a Western diplomat in Kyiv said. ...
Zelensky will also have to live up to his own promise — which he restates regularly — of returning Ukraine to its 1991 borders, including Crimea, the Ukrainian peninsula that Russia illegally invaded and claimed as its own 10 years ago.
“Smart people know that’s not realistic,” the Ukrainian lawmaker said, adding: The political leadership “needed to adjust this rhetoric at some point.”
Im prolly the only one on here that has been there many times. Get over it not everyone wants ww3. Before getting into ww3 one shouldv understand the culture. Maybe Jed Clampet...you...should stay off I 10.
Russia invaded Ukraine.
Hamas attacked Israel.
Clearly evil.
No need to ask why.
The US invaded Afghanistan. If someone said "clearly evil" and "no reason to ask why" about that, would you let it ride?
I don't give a shit how many times anyone been anywhere. Noone has a monopoly on understanding and don't get into resume comparisons.
Get off your high horse and if you insist on having respect for service for your country start acting like you deserve it.
Since this is NOT your evidence of neocons creating the mess in Ukraine, what is your point? Your MAGA friends made sure Russia would not be repelled when the Ukrainian's were at their strongest and the Russians their most vulnerable.
So, Your MAGA side might pull this off anyway. Won't you feel good. Real proud, I'd say to see the Russian's take over an adjacent country. What country are you going to root for Putin to take over next? Gotta be a NATO country not contributing enough. The 1.7% or 1.5%er? Maybe 2 at a time.
40% OF UKRAINIAN REFUGEES AGED 18 – 24 WERE MALES, STATE ACCOMMODATION FIGURES SHOW
A document seen by Gript shows that 40% of the Ukrainians aged between 18 and 24 who were in state accommodation on April 26 this year were male.
...
That cohort, but particularly that of 18-24 year olds, includes all who are eligible to be conscripted into the Ukrainian army. The only exemptions being those males who are fathers of three or more children or who are found to be of ill health.
That would suggest that a large number of Ukrainian males of military age have in effect come to Ireland in order to avoid the draft.
40% of Ukrainian refugees aged 18 - 24 were males, state accommodation figures show - Gript
40% of Ukrainian refugees aged 18 - 24 were males, state accommodation figures for April 26th show - an upwards trend MATT TREACY says is also being observed in other EU countries.gript.ie
Not surprised to see Northern here doing Putin’s heavy lifting. The term “useful idiots” comes to mind on this subject.
People talking about it being a good proxy war believe that Russia is a huge and eminent military threat to the US and NATO. They have no real evidence, and it's OK because Dems have the White House and Senate, so it must be true. If Republicans wanted to give full support to Ukraine, those same folks would be against it.
