Is it really stand your ground when you put the second shot in his head?

[tarheelbybirth]

Not sure. State of mind is likely what I said.

There's a difference in mindset, I believe, between fear that inspires a foolish attempt at self defense and simply wanting to murder somebody. That's my point.

“I can tell you there was a racial component to this case,” [Clay County Prosecuting Attorney Zachary] Thompson said at a news conference without elaborating.

Two representatives at the Kansas City Police Department detention unit previously told CNN the suspect was taken into custody on April 13 just before midnight but was released less than two hours later, at 1:24 a.m. on April 14.

And that is inexcusable.

 

[runkpanole]

That makes no sense. Attempted murder? The most likely state of mind is that he was freaked out and afraid for his own safety.

That doesn't mean the outcome wasn't problematic. But it's not attempted murder.

No offense, but a lot of liberal posters here completely have their heads up their ass on stuff like this. You completely misread likely motives due to political attachment.

You are absolutely no better than right wingers on stuff like this.


Be better.

Holy fvck. You put to bullets into someone’s head and it’s not attempted murder? Let’s slap the old man on the wrist and tell him that he was very naughty and send him to a nursing home?

 

[Colonoscopy]

“I can tell you there was a racial component to this case,” [Clay County Prosecuting Attorney Zachary] Thompson said at a news conference without elaborating.

Two representatives at the Kansas City Police Department detention unit previously told CNN the suspect was taken into custody on April 13 just before midnight but was released less than two hours later, at 1:24 a.m. on April 14.

And that is inexcusable.

There could definitely be racial bias. If they have evidence for this, than so be it.

It's a tricky thing in general given that if you look at the violent crime rates amongst races in a given city often there are large differences.

So there is a reasonable baseline concern that says to be more concerned about one race than another.

That said, there is still the problem of exaggerated response, even if the before mentioned condition is true.

 

[Colonoscopy]

Holy fvck. You put to bullets into someone’s head and it’s not attempted murder? Let’s slap the old man on the wrist and tell him that he was very naughty and send him to a nursing home?

Stop being an idiot. You could put a bullet in somebody's head and it's self defense. What I'm talking about is state of mind.

There is a murderous state of mind, and there are other states of mind. We all understand this.

It's the same reason a drunk running over somebody in a state of drunkenness is completely different than a sober person purposefully mowing somebody down with a vehicle. (not that we don't punish this drunken person -- but clearly the circumstances are completely different)

State of mind, fool.

 

[runkpanole]

Stop being an idiot. You could put a bullet in somebody's head and it's self defense. What I'm talking about is state of mind.

There is a murderous state of mind, and there are other states of mind. We all understand this.

It's the same reason a drunk running over somebody in a state of drunkenness is completely different than a sober person purposefully mowing somebody down with a vehicle. (not that we don't punish this drunken person -- but clearly the circumstances are completely different)

State of mind, fool.

He stood over him and fvcking shot him again.

 

[Pete Malloy]

He stood over him and fvcking shot him again.

Please prove your outrageous statement.

 

[MeetTheFerentzes]

This whole matter was just a terrible misunderstanding and definitely does not need to end in someone going to jail over.

OMG! Yeah, I'm sure if it were someone you love who was shot for going to the wrong house you'd have this exact same attitude.

 

[Pete Malloy]

OMG! Yeah, I'm sure if it were someone you love who was shot for going to the wrong house you'd have this exact same attitude.

My relatives are more intelligent, they would read and honor the no trespassing signs.

 

[RileyHawk]

You suck at arguing, Riley.

And yet, better than you. Lol.

Hint - try having a premise for your argument that isn't absurd.

 

[RileyHawk]

Stop being an idiot. You could put a bullet in somebody's head and it's self defense. What I'm talking about is state of mind.

There is a murderous state of mind, and there are other states of mind. We all understand this.

It's the same reason a drunk running over somebody in a state of drunkenness is completely different than a sober person purposefully mowing somebody down with a vehicle. (not that we don't punish this drunken person -- but clearly the circumstances are completely different)

State of mind, fool.

WTF? His "state of mind" was to shoot this kid with a deadly weapon. It wasn't an accident.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

That makes no sense. Attempted murder? The most likely state of mind is that he was freaked out and afraid for his own safety.

That doesn't mean the outcome wasn't problematic. But it's not attempted murder.

No offense, but a lot of liberal posters here completely have their heads up their ass on stuff like this. You completely misread likely motives due to political attachment.

You are absolutely no better than right wingers on stuff like this.


Be better.

I have probably voted for more republicans than Dems in my life (pre-MAGA takeover at least). I am strongly fiscally conservative. You are painting with a broad brush.

This guy tried to kill someone who was not an immediate threat. I could give two shits why…maybe Fox News or his own senility made him scared of people ringing his doorbell. Any way you cut it he made a deliberate attempt to kill someone and that is attempted murder in my (admittedly non lawyerly) book.

I support the right to own firearms, but it is a damn shame we don’t have limits on gun ownership for people who are clearly incapable of responsibly owning guns.

 

[Colonoscopy]

I have probably voted for more republicans than Dems in my life (pre-MAGA takeover at least). I am strongly fiscally conservative. You are painting with a broad brush.

This guy tried to kill someone who was not an immediate threat. I could give two shits why…maybe Fox News or his own senility made him scared of people ringing his doorbell. Any way you cut it he made a deliberate attempt to kill someone and that is attempted murder in my (admittedly non lawyerly) book.

I support the right to own firearms, but it is a damn shame we don’t have limits on gun ownership for people who are clearly incapable of responsibly owning guns.

I think my complaint basically boiled down to misrepresenting intent via language used.

To me you say murder in specific situations. It seems like a lot of people just throw it out there quite liberally. (and in watching enough of these threads on cases like this, the left is certainly no more accurate than the right)

Example:
Second-degree murder is defined as an intentional killing that was not premeditated. In some states, second-degree murder also encompasses “depraved heart murder,” which is a killing caused by a reckless disregard for human life.

If the guy was legitimately afraid and thought he was in imminent danger -- if any of these guys in the recent 'self defense' shootings were -- then it's not a "depraved heart murder."

Not that it shouldn't be charged, but this would seem to be a decision made on a terrible assessment of threat.

Assessment of threat is the problem.

 

[Colonoscopy]

A big problem with self defense laws -- not that we don't need them -- is the implicit subjectivity of judging when your life might be in danger and what the appropriate action might be.

You're going to have people get that wrong at times for any number of reasons.

How do you handle the problem? The subjectivity sort of destroys the "reasonable person" argument.
(although you have to have some sort of limiter lest bad actors aren't able to be addressed)

 

[MeetTheFerentzes]

My relatives are more intelligent, they would read and honor the no trespassing signs.

Thank you. The exact cowardly deflection/non-answer I was expecting.

 

[alaskanseminole]

Holy fvck. You put to bullets into someone’s head and it’s not attempted murder? Let’s slap the old man on the wrist and tell him that he was very naughty and send him to a nursing home?

Legally speaking, it's not attempted murder:

Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Dude was in bed and answered his door, not much of an opportunity for aforethought. I think he was charged appropriately--first-degree assault and armed criminal action.

 

[runkpanole]

Legally speaking, it's not attempted murder:

Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Dude was in bed and answered his door, not much of an opportunity for aforethought. I think he was charged appropriately--first-degree assault and armed criminal action.

He stood over him and shot him in the head again. He shot him twice.

 

[sober_teacher]

He stood over him and shot him in the head again. He shot him twice.

It’s the 2nd shot that elevates it imo. Charges would make sense for the first shot to me.

From the DA perspective, probably some people in there that partly felt it overkill (sorry for the pun) to charge an 85 yr old man with attempted murder.

 

[alaskanseminole]

He stood over him and shot him in the head again. He shot him twice.

Not saying he was justified, just speaking on the terms of legality. There's a reason we have assault, manslaughter, homicide, murder and varying their varying degrees. Nuance matters in these things.

 

[runkpanole]

It’s the 2nd shot that elevates it imo. Charges would make sense for the first shot to me.

From the DA perspective, probably some people in there that partly felt it overkill (sorry for the pun) to charge an 85 yr old man with attempted murder.

Hell, the old fvcker didn’t even call 911. The neighbor did. He wanted the kid dead.

 

[runkpanole]

Not saying he was justified, just speaking on the terms of legality. There's a reason we have assault, manslaughter, homicide, murder and varying their varying degrees. Nuance matters in these things.

See my post below. Nuance matters.

 

[Rifler]

Obviously, at this point in his life, this old guy should no longer have had access to a gun,.. Unfortunately, outside of a family intervention I'm not sure how you filter these weapons out of use...

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

He stood over him and shot him in the head again. He shot him twice.

Obviously false. OP title is false. If you can’t even get basic facts right I have to dismiss your opinion as well since based on false premises. Personally, I had a black guy turn into my rural driveway, saying that he was a Veteran and was coming from a job interview at the local casino. He said he needed gas to get home. He showed me a veteran ID card, so I gave him a 20 and directed him to the local Caseys. I have 8 guns that have never even considered shooting someone…

 

[Fijimn]

A big problem with self defense laws -- not that we don't need them -- is the implicit subjectivity of judging when your life might be in danger and what the appropriate action might be.

You're going to have people get that wrong at times for any number of reasons.

How do you handle the problem? The subjectivity sort of destroys the "reasonable person" argument.
(although you have to have some sort of limiter lest bad actors aren't able to be addressed)

It's a jury question. 12 members of the community make the decision of whether the accused acted as a reasonable person.

 

[Fijimn]

Not saying he was justified, just speaking on the terms of legality. There's a reason we have assault, manslaughter, homicide, murder and varying their varying degrees. Nuance matters in these things.

It's not nuance--it's mens rea (state of mind). murder is the intentional killing, manslaughter is a lesser degree (reckless disregard), then we have negligent homicide.

Assault still requires an intent mens rea...there just no dead body.

 

[alaskanseminole]

See my post below. Nuance matters.

Okay, looks like you're correct.

First-degree assault is Missouri’s name for the charge other states call attempted murder, a local criminal defense lawyer told The Star. That means there is no separate attempted murder count that Lester could have been charged with.

 

[runkpanole]

Either way, I hope the old fvcker rots in prison.

 

[Joes Place]

 

[Moral]

It has happen to me a couple times. My go-to is usually to ignore the door and wonder who the hell was at my door after they leave. It usually leaves behind an uneasy feeling for a bit. To be fair I also do the same thing during the day time. One time I didn't ignore it and it was the neighbor kids that had just learned a new ballet arrangement and they made me watch them for like 3 minutes. It was about as awkward of a situation as I have ever been in. CSB

They tried to strike again today but I saw them coming for the door and I fled for the basement.

 

[stickman80]

“Stand your ground” was piss poor law when written and debated before it was ever passed into law. LEOs across the nation warned the politicians they were headed down the wrong road with this one. Yet, “we the people” knew best and disregarded those with experience in the law and made this POS legislation the law. Sometimes “we the people” and our politicians are arrogant...way beyond our own good.
Then for good measure, “we the people” elect GOPers to run our state....in another vain attempt to make our voting public look more intelligent than it really is.

Joel is just angry that Stand Your Ground doesn't apply to the geese that bomb his swimming pool.

 

[millah_22]

Joel is just angry

 

[joelbc1]

Joel is just angry that Stand Your Ground doesn't apply to the geese that bomb his swimming pool.

My plastic balloon “eyes” have solved my duck/goose pool problems.

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

Finally justice has been served in the murder of Kaylin Gillis who was a passenger in her boyfriend's vehicle when they were attempting to turn around in this POS's driveway. Kevin Monahan, 66, who continues to show no remorse and makes excuses for the murder, was sentenced to 25 years to life for 2nd degree murder. 4 additional years were added by the judge for tampering with a murder weapon. Hopefully he's never released until he visits the coroner.

https://apnews.com/article/wrong-dr...llis-monahan-cdca1723c6ba7afb89102a1e1aaa3fe0

 

[lucas80]

Andrew Lester has died just days before being sentenced for killing Ralph Yarl.
https://nypost.com/2025/02/19/us-ne...ong-doorbell-dies-days-after-admitting-guilt/