Is it really stand your ground when you put the second shot in his head?

[Old_wrestling_fan]

Why isn’t that in the article? I’m sorry…. Being a white male, when I knock on a person’s door even during the day, I am always standing a good 6 feet or more from the door and many times down the front steps and on the sidewalk as to not frighten the person. Not justifying the shooting at all, but the kid clearly made a bad decision to knock on a door at 2:00 am where the house was likely dark and not take into consideration that he could scare someone and should back away from the door.

FWIW...I saw another account where the time of the incident was around 10:00P, not 2:00A. I obviously don't know which one is correct and nowadays it is virtually impossible to get a factual, coherent telling of the events via the media...so who knows. But a kid knocking on a door at 10:00P is quite different than someone trying to enter a door at 2:00A.

If the young man was trying to forcefully enter/break the door and/or had breached the doorway, then "stand your ground" would fairly apply IMO.

If he is merely knocking on the door, ringing the doorbell, etc. then it would not and the shooter should be facing appropriate charges.

Stand your ground allows someone to defend themselves, not shoot first and ask questions later, etc. There needs to be a very bright line between the two.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

1. Lester fires no matter what color the person trying to gain entry is.

2. Yarl allegedly is suffering from a head injury so do you think he might be a little confused as to what took place.

This whole matter was just a terrible misunderstanding and definitely does not need to end in someone going to jail over.

I love posters like you - 100% certain in your ignorance. I am sure your confidence is intoxicating to the numpties you hang out with, but most of us find it contemptible.

None of us know what the old guy would do in other circumstances. What we do know is he put two bullets into an honor roll student who was doing nothing wrong. Seems like attempted murder to me.

Anyone who goes guns blazing without confirming intent deserves to:

1. Go to prison for the max sentence
2. Lose their right to own a gun forever
3. Be sued into oblivion by the victim

F*ck this scared old pussy. If you can’t control your fear then you don’t deserve to live independently in our society.

 

[Pete Malloy]

Nice mug shot.

View embedded media

Because the kid goofed and went to ave instead of terrace, or whichever it was.

Annnd since he thought it was a relatives house it makes perfect sense to believe he tried opening the door when Mr. Lester opened the inner door.

What was this kid wearing? I suspect it wasn’t his band uniform. Probably wearing a hoodie.

 

[sober_teacher]

Annnd since he thought it was a relatives house it makes perfect sense to believe he tried opening the door when Mr. Lester opened the inner door.

What was this kid wearing? I suspect it wasn’t his band uniform. Probably wearing a hoodie.

So?

 

[torbee]

I am more surprised that people still quote and respond regularly to this site's most obvious and boring troll than I am that a scared old creepy white dude in Missouri shot a kid for being black and ringing a doorbell.

No offense, @sober_teacher, @hawkeyetraveler et al

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

I am more surprised that people still quote and respond regularly to this site's most obvious and boring troll than I am that a scared old creepy white dude in Missouri shot a kid for being black and ringing a doorbell.

No offense, @sober_teacher, @hawkeyetraveler et al

 

[Fijimn]

I am more surprised that people still quote and respond regularly to this site's most obvious and boring troll than I am that a scared old creepy white dude in Missouri shot a kid for being black and ringing a doorbell.

No offense, @sober_teacher, @hawkeyetraveler et al

I don’t get why they feed the troll.

 

[Jimmy McGill]

I forgot all about this guy. @Jimmy McGill , do you have a music video?

You bet.

 

[McLovin32]

I am more surprised that people still quote and respond regularly to this site's most obvious and boring troll than I am that a scared old creepy white dude in Missouri shot a kid for being black and ringing a doorbell.

No offense, @sober_teacher, @hawkeyetraveler et al

Ol Pete got added to the ignore list a looooong time ago. I can appreciate a good troll, but there's some folks that just bring absolutely nothing to the board. He's one of them.

 

[sober_teacher]

I am more surprised that people still quote and respond regularly to this site's most obvious and boring troll than I am that a scared old creepy white dude in Missouri shot a kid for being black and ringing a doorbell.

No offense, @sober_teacher, @hawkeyetraveler et al

I don’t get why they feed the troll.

As long as he stays civil I’m willing to respond, depending on the thread. I’ll engage if it’s an honest discussion, but not if hes just going for a reaction.

 

[torbee]

As long as he stays civil I’m willing to respond, depending on the thread. I’ll engage if it’s an honest discussion, but not if hes just going for a reaction.

But his entire schtick is uncivil.

That said, I'll let it go. I'm not the board police.

 

[Pete Malloy]

So?

So there is more to the story such as has the homeowner ever been the victim of a home breaking? Has the homeowner ever been mugged?

What was he wearing? Thinking it was his aunts house did he try to walk in?

 

[DooBi]

What in the actual phuq is wrong with you?

Says the racist.

 

[sober_teacher]

So there is more to the story such as has the homeowner ever been the victim of a home breaking? Has the homeowner ever been mugged?

What was he wearing? Thinking it was his aunts house did he try to walk in?

All of which could possibly provide background, but not justify shooting an unarmed kid WHO HE ADMITS RANG THE DOORBELL.

considering he rang the doorbell, I’m saying no he didn’t try to walk in.

have a good one.

 

[torbee]

Says the racist.

I am an avowed moronisict.

Which is why I hold you in contempt.

 

[Camhawk2012]

1. Lester fires no matter what color the person trying to gain entry is.

2. Yarl allegedly is suffering from a head injury so do you think he might be a little confused as to what took place.

This whole matter was just a terrible misunderstanding and definitely does not need to end in someone going to jail over.

Dude WTF. Are you dumb? Im sorry this is just ridiculous.

A guy shoots a child twice and you call it a misunderstanding.

You have got to be f***Ng kidding. You can’t be that much of a dumb**

 

[theiacowtipper]

1. Lester fires no matter what color the person trying to gain entry is.

2. Yarl allegedly is suffering from a head injury so do you think he might be a little confused as to what took place.

This whole matter was just a terrible misunderstanding and definitely does not need to end in someone going to jail over.

What justifies the 2nd shot? The kid was lying on the ground bleeding and the guy pumped another round into him. What justifies not calling 911?

 

[BelemNole]

Dude WTF. Are you dumb? Im sorry this is just ridiculous.

A guy shoots a child twice and you call it a misunderstanding.

You have got to be f***Ng kidding. You can’t be that much of a dumb**

You're upset. He's happy. That's his only point in posting the nonsense he does. Put him on ignore like the rest of us.

 

[Pete Malloy]

Dude WTF. Are you dumb? Im sorry this is just ridiculous.

A guy shoots a child twice and you call it a misunderstanding.

You have got to be f***Ng kidding. You can’t be that much of a dumb**

I don’t think the homeowner knew what age the guy at the front door was. What he saw was this huge guy at his door attempting to open the storm door.

Are you 100% sure he fired the 2nd shot as the guy was on the ground? By all accounts it was bang bang thru the closed door.

 

[Pepperman]

I can sort of see how this happened, but there’s no way to defend the guys actions IN FULL. I’ve been following the story before I saw this thread. Old people go to bed early and most don’t like being disturbed after certain times of the night.

That said, even if the 84 year old was scared, and even if he thought the kid was trying to burglarize his home - then two questions are critical:
1) Why would you ever think to shoot him again? One shot wouldn’t be justified in my view but maybe legally it would given the “trying to open the door” misunderstanding, I don’t know.
2) no matter how many shots how do you not immediately call 911?

Edit to say I actually do believe if he’d only have fired one shot and immediately called 911 he might not be in the same legal (and frankly moral) trouble. I wouldn’t like that result but I’d at least somewhat understand it given the circumstances.

 

[Pete Malloy]

I can sort of see how this happened, but there’s no way to defend the guys actions IN FULL. I’ve been following the story before I saw this thread. Old people go to bed early and most don’t like being disturbed after certain times of the night.

That said, even if the 84 year old was scared, and even if he thought the kid was trying to burglarize his home - then two questions are critical:
1) Why would you ever think to shoot him again? One shot wouldn’t be justified in my view but maybe legally it would given the “trying to open the door” misunderstanding, I don’t know.
2) no matter how many shots how do you not immediately call 911?

911 should have been called. Do we know if the old guy even had a phone?

If the 2nd shot was fired after the guy was on the ground that’s an issue.

I think all parties involved are sorry this happened. Some on this board have accused the old guy as belonging to the KKK while others have portrayed him as someone just waiting to shoot some black kid.

The fact of the matter is the guy just went to bed and probably thought shooting someone was the last thing on his mind.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

I can sort of see how this happened, but there’s no way to defend the guys actions IN FULL. I’ve been following the story before I saw this thread. Old people go to bed early and most don’t like being disturbed after certain times of the night.

That said, even if the 84 year old was scared, and even if he thought the kid was trying to burglarize his home - then two questions are critical:
1) Why would you ever think to shoot him again? One shot wouldn’t be justified in my view but maybe legally it would given the “trying to open the door” misunderstanding, I don’t know.
2) no matter how many shots how do you not immediately call 911?

Edit to say I actually do believe if he’d only have fired one shot and immediately called 911 he might not be in the same legal (and frankly moral) trouble. I wouldn’t like that result but I’d at least somewhat understand it given the circumstances.

In my mind, if the 84 year old was truly scared, which is very plausible, then you yell through the door and tell the doorbell ringer to scram, I have a gun in here, etc and you don't open the inner door. I have read elsewhere that the first shot was the one that hit him in head and the second hit him elsewhere.

Also there is a dispute as to whether the young man tried to enter the door, or not. The shooter says he did, the shootee says he didn't. I suspect that the shootee is telling the truer story here. There is just no justification for a shoot in those circumstances, none. Thankfully the young man is alive after this.

 

[Pepperman]

In my mind, if the 84 year old was truly scared, which is very plausible, then you yell through the door and tell the doorbell ringer to scram, I have a gun in here, etc and you don't open the inner door. I have read elsewhere that the first shot was the one that hit him in head and the second hit him elsewhere.

Also there is a dispute as to whether the young man tried to enter the door, or not. The shooter says he did, the shootee says he didn't. I suspect that the shootee is telling the truer story here. There is just no justification for a shoot in those circumstances, none. Thankfully the young man is alive after this.

I’ve got no issue with that view either. He probably should have yelled through the door.

The fact he shot the kid, apparently said “don’t come here again” or whatever I read in another article, and never called for help is why he’s in big trouble.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Nice mug shot.

View embedded media

Looks like he’s had a stroke.

 

[DooBi]

I am an avowed moronisict.

Which is why I hold you in contempt.

We all know what you are.

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

Good god nice trolling here ITT. PM should run off and create a new GIAOT persona so he’ll have a decent chance of fooling some of us as to his identity for at least a few posts. Glad he’s been on my ignore list since his first appearance here.

I’m also glad that old man will likely die in prison, it’s well deserved. I’m advocating that everyone who shoots another person without cause be sentenced to life in prison without possibility of parole. Perhaps that will wake these idiots up from their complacency and make them realize what a huge responsibility it is to own a gun. Also very glad that young man and his family will own every asset that old man and lady have, but even that won’t make up for the experience he went through.

 

[Joes Place]

Who answers their door with a loaded weapon?

Someone all zipped up on conservative media 24/7



"Nickelodeon for people with dementia"

 

[Pete Malloy]

Someone all zipped up on conservative media 24/7

View embedded media

"Nickelodeon for people with dementia"

Maybe a decrepit 85 year old man who had signs warning trespassers and unwelcomed visitors to leave and didn't expect someone to be banging at his door in the middle of the night would seek out a small calibur pistol before he went to investigate.

 

[markfromj]

Wait….shooter has been charged? I thought he “got off”.

 

[Colonoscopy]

I love posters like you - 100% certain in your ignorance. I am sure your confidence is intoxicating to the numpties you hang out with, but most of us find it contemptible.

None of us know what the old guy would do in other circumstances. What we do know is he put two bullets into an honor roll student who was doing nothing wrong. Seems like attempted murder to me.

Anyone who goes guns blazing without confirming intent deserves to:

1. Go to prison for the max sentence
2. Lose their right to own a gun forever
3. Be sued into oblivion by the victim

F*ck this scared old pussy. If you can’t control your fear then you don’t deserve to live independently in our society.

That makes no sense. Attempted murder? The most likely state of mind is that he was freaked out and afraid for his own safety.

That doesn't mean the outcome wasn't problematic. But it's not attempted murder.

No offense, but a lot of liberal posters here completely have their heads up their ass on stuff like this. You completely misread likely motives due to political attachment.

You are absolutely no better than right wingers on stuff like this.


Be better.

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

Guy kind of looks like Whitey Herzog. He was likely laying in bed have a reoccurring nightmare that Don Denkinger had just stolen the ‘85 World Series all over again and just over reacted a little…

 

[Joes Place]

Wait….shooter has been charged? I thought he “got off”.

His own relatives are upset that he was not immediately taken into custody. And "given the benefit of the doubt".

 

[RileyHawk]

That makes no sense. Attempted murder? The most likely state of mind is that he was freaked out and afraid for his own safety.

That doesn't mean the outcome wasn't problematic. But it's not attempted murder.

No offense, but a lot of liberal posters here completely have their heads up their ass on stuff like this. You completely misread likely motives due to political attachment.

You are absolutely no better than right wingers on stuff like this.


Be better.

What do you think the charges should be?

 

[Colonoscopy]

What do you think the charges should be?

Not sure. State of mind is likely what I said.

There's a difference in mindset, I believe, between fear that inspires a foolish attempt at self defense and simply wanting to murder somebody. That's my point.

 

[RileyHawk]

Not sure. State of mind is likely what I said.

There's a difference in mindset, I believe, between fear that inspires a foolish attempt at self defense and simply wanting to murder somebody. That's my point.

Lol - so you don't know but automatically rule out murder. Classic.

There's no self defense excuse as there was nothing to be defended. It's sad watching you and others desperately trying to excuse this guy shooting this kid for no reason.

 

[Fijimn]

That makes no sense. Attempted murder? The most likely state of mind is that he was freaked out and afraid for his own safety.

That doesn't mean the outcome wasn't problematic. But it's not attempted murder.

No offense, but a lot of liberal posters here completely have their heads up their ass on stuff like this. You completely misread likely motives due to political attachment.

You are absolutely no better than right wingers on stuff like this.


Be better.

I suspect the charge will be attempted second degree murder (which is knowingly (attempt) to cause the death of another) with a lesser included charge of attempted voluntary manslaughter (which is attempting to cause the death of another under the influence of sudden passion--it is the accused burden to present evidence of sudden passion), as well as a lesser charge of assault in the first and second degree

 

[Colonoscopy]

Lol - so you don't know but automatically rule out murder. Classic.

There's no self defense excuse as there was nothing to be defended. It's sad watching you and others desperately trying to excuse this guy shooting this kid for no reason.

You suck at arguing, Riley.

 

[bdcolt45er]

That makes no sense. Attempted murder? The most likely state of mind is that he was freaked out and afraid for his own safety.

That doesn't mean the outcome wasn't problematic. But it's not attempted murder.

No offense, but a lot of liberal posters here completely have their heads up their ass on stuff like this. You completely misread likely motives due to political attachment.

You are absolutely no better than right wingers on stuff like this.


Be better.

It is attempted murder he was trying to intentionally kill the young man. He did not accidentally discharge his weapon. There is not a credible argument for self defense. I'm tired of people making excuses for people with firearms. It's a big responsibility owning a firearm. You are responsible for the harm that weapon causes when you discharge it.

If you can't handle it then you shouldn't keep a weapon in your home. "I was scared" can't be a free pass to shoot people.

 

[Colonoscopy]

It is attempted murder he was trying to intentionally kill the young man. He did not accidentally discharge his weapon. There is not a credible argument for self defense. I'm tired of people making excuses for people with firearms. It's a big responsibility owning a firearm. You are responsible for the harm that weapon causes when you discharge it.

If you can't handle it then you shouldn't keep a weapon in your home. "I was scared" can't be a free pass to shoot people.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be any penalty for foolish concern associated with self defense. Nevertheless, that doesn't change the guilty state of mind, or lack thereof.

It looked like foolish self defense to me.

 

[bdcolt45er]

I think these types of videos are really contributing to the problem. I suspect that this guy is probably competent and one of my complaints is that the vast majority of fire arm owners do not pressure test. So why do I think this is a problem? Because most people who watch this video won't actually do the pressure testing and the message they get from the video is I need to be ready at all times to shoot people. And so when some scenario actually arises their mind is triggered to this scenario.

Also I think it's crazy to think I have to have a loaded fire arm on my person at all times.