I'm not saying he'll be a moderate, only that he'll possibly moderate (verb) for a national election if he's all about strategy. (or good at it)
Is Ron DeSantis Flaming Out Already?
- Thread starter Colonoscopy
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I’m a bit ambivalent on that one. But I appreciate a politician that is willing to compromise and Biden always has been one.
No.
DeSantis isn't crazy like Trump. The other big issue, of course, was Trump's insane anti-democratic rhetoric that led to Jan 6. (tenuous grasp on democracy in general) He posed an existential threat that way. I haven't seen those items from DeSantis. That's why DeSantis is easily less scary.
DeSantis, to me, would be a concern from the standpoint of norm violation -- Trump also was guilty of norms violation -- playing hardball in a questionable way. Few examples: (off the top of my head)
A) Don't say gay
B) Disney ordeal
C) Immigrants being shipped to Mass
Apparently he possessed the ability to pull off these actions in the state of Florida. He's been very aggressive that way -- especially around the war on woke stuff.
Would this also be his mode of operation as POTUS? Is this specifically a war on woke thing? Is he just trying to score points with republican base?
You could also look at legislation he has pushed for that was shot down. (specifically, how grossly they depart from what might be legally permissible)
Better than Obama, which is a nice surprise. Too often Obama would start with the right goals but would make concessions before the negotiating even started - like taking universal health care off the table before negotiating ACA - and would then cave too fast.
The Democratic party in Florida is in the toilet. Not only could they not put up a decent candidate for Governor, they lost more seats in the Legislature and the Republicans now have a supermajority in the House and Senate. Almost half of the registered voters in Florida didn't bother to vote. So, between the Democrats having a poor candidate and a lot of people not caring, DeSantis cruised to an easy win.
Florida is so bad that they might even have won without cheating.
Not that they left it to chance.
At his core, Desantis is not a populist nor isolationist. That is why he has avoid engaging in any real policy discussions other than "anti-woke." It appears he begrudgingly gave into the anti-Ukraine sect with his last statements. As the Bulwark posited--it'll be interesting to see if Desantis falls in line with the new GOP or tries to lead them back to be actual conservatives.
He's been telling us exactly who he is. Why is it so hard to believe him?
The same mistake was made with Trump.
Oh, he'll conform to the constraints and dignity of the office. No.
He'll be surrounded by people that will keep him in line and check his unorthodox instincts. No.
When people tell you who they are and how they will behave, believe them.
It’s like @Colonoscopy paid no attention from 2015 through January of 2021.
Biden never claimed to be anything but a corporate middle of the road Democrat. And that’s what he’s been. Trump never claimed to be anything but an absolute nightmare of a human being, and despite all the Republican voters saying he’d fall in line and be a moderate, he was an absolute nightmare of a human being. Now Ron DeSantis is telling us he’s a nightmare of a human being and people are like, “he’ll fall in line and be a moderate.”
Insert Lucy Charlie Brown gif.
Not me. I want a Republican civil war.
Biden can beat either Turd or DeSantis.
60% of the country hates DJT and he's done nothing to endear himself to the 81 million voters who chose Biden in 2020.
If DeSantis is the nominee, the MAGAt base will feel Trump was robbed and won't even vote in the general.
Dems are in a good spot right now.
60% of the country hates DJT and he's done nothing to endear himself to the 81 million voters who chose Biden in 2020.
If DeSantis is the nominee, the MAGAt base will feel Trump was robbed and won't even vote in the general.
Dems are in a good spot right now.
I pointed out where there was overlap, and where there was not, specifically, above. On the personal level "nightmare of a human" stuff, they're really different. Trump was an unhinged ranting imbecile who couldn't be trusted from the very start. Obviously DeSantis has not been this. We all know this, I'm not going to belabor the point.
The overlap would be on DeSantis' aggressive and questionable action in the 'war on woke', mostly. An example would be on something like like the bill that would attempt to root out what he sees as political indoctrination in colleges, IIRC. This could have implications on free speech, and even if somehow valid, would tend to set a bad precedence in producing a pipeline from partisan legislation directly into public schooling. (what happens when his term is up -- liberals get to set the agenda again?)
So obviously I have problems with stuff he's done or proposed. I questioned whether or not the intent was to do so stuff the base loves, a specific pet topic in wokeness, or complete disregard for some of the principals that might be violated as I layed out above. (or what the correct admixture thereof is)
He has gone further and further right as the governor of Florida in his culture wars and playing to the MAGA base. What makes you think, even for a second, that he would shift to the middle as the POTUS?
Crist was a R, I and finally a D. In the span of 10 years. He’s a chameleon that stands for nothing…not sure how he won the D primary.
That's like hoping your raging whore wife will become a faithful spouse after you're married.
I have to disagree. Obama knew that he did not have key dem senators on board for anymore than what he got.
So for 13 years upwards of an additional 10-30 million Americans have insurance. Probably saved 500k lives in the meantime.
That's not nothing.
Obama has always believed in the long game and he knew this had to be done in steps over time.
The GOP has tried to sabotage ACA at every turn but it has held.
Without compromise we are still stuck with no progress on this issue.
Meanwhile the DOW is surging back. Not even down 500 any more.
Relevance? This mess brought to you by those who favor deregulation.
Relevance? This mess brought to you by those who favor deregulation.
Obama not only took universal health care off the table before negotiating, he also included deal sweeteners in the form of using tax breaks instead of direct benefits, knowing that Rs would like them.
I'm not arguing that Obama could have gotten those things. I'm arguing that he should have started with them and made the Rs compromise to get rid of them. He didn't.
And don't get me started on the public option. He sacrificed that - which, iirc, was originally a R idea (from Collins) - in an effort to get R votes. He never got R votes. But the public option was never put back in. He wouldn't have lost D votes if he put it back in, so there's another missed opportunity to make ACA better.
My complaint isn't against the ACA but that Obama could have done better. Biden isn't getting everything, either - and it doesn't help that he has to fight sabotage from his own side - but he isn't giving things away before he starts negotiating.
Advantage Biden.
Like him or not, Ron has a reputation for getting stuff done. Trump was a lazy, do-nothing president, and people got tired of that, so they now want someone who's not afraid to work.
DeSantis also handled covid well, by most people's estimation.
DeSantis also handled covid well, by most people's estimation.
Haven't there been reports showing a lot more people died in Florida due to DeSantis's rejectionist policies?
So, yeah, if you are an antivaxxer or antimasker and you didn't lose anyone (and are obviously not dead yourself) you might think he handled COVID well. But that doesn't mean he did handle COVID well.
He has a reputation for pushing his agenda through a republican super majority legislature. Is that really an accomplishment?
While I agree with your characterization, 74 million voters wanted four more years of it.
I'm speaking more to the perception out there, and why I think Ron DeSantis is popular, not my personal opinion/judgment.
I actually agree with you, a lot of Floridians died, and there were even allegations of DeSantis going to great lengths to cover that up, so we may never know the truth.
You and I may not like it, but the majority perception is one of "Ron kept Florida open while the rest of the liberal Blue State Governor's overreacted and killed small businesses." DeSantis has been good at perpetuating that message, and the Blue State folks who vacationed in Florida during 2020/2021 intuitively agree with that message.
If the 2024 election is wide open, and it inclues Whitmer, Pritzger, and Newsom on the Dem side, then the whole "how did Governor X react to covid" will be a big 2024 campaign issue. Whitmer is already saying there was some covid overreaction, which tells me she knows which way the wind is blowing.
Not really. DeSantis won't be able to bully the US Congress like he can his State counterpart. Without that ability, he gets nothing done. Remember, this is the guy who not just bullies private business and Democrats who speak out against his plans. He also went after his own party when they initially voted down his heavily gerrymandered redistricting plan.
That crap won't work in Washington.
You are thinking too logically, and not like the average plebe with a voter registration card.
This idiot will never be elected President. No Republican will be elected President with the current climate political climate. Their anti-abortion, pro-murder weapon stances are death sentences to the growing younger and suburban educated female vs. diminishing older uneducated rural white male population.
As the courts gradually migrate from totally intellectual absent ultra-right wing to sensible jurisprudence, state legislatures will be forced to reverse the non-representative gerrymandering that has provided Republican control in areas.
The Democratic party is just that bad. Crist was a major step up from the crackhead they ran 4 yrs prior.
