ADVERTISEMENT

Is Ron DeSantis Flaming Out Already?

Colonoscopy

HR Legend
Feb 20, 2022
11,053
11,978
113
51
Saint Louis, Mo

Florida governor Ron DeSantis has long sought to avoid taking a position on Russia’s war in Ukraine. On the eve of the Russian invasion, 165 Florida National Guard members were stationed on a training mission in Ukraine. They were evacuated in February 2022 to continue their mission in neighboring countries. When they returned to Florida in August, DeSantis did not greet them. He has not praised, or even acknowledged, their work in any public statement.

DeSantis did find time, however, to admonish Ukrainian officials in October for not showing enough gratitude to new Twitter owner Elon Musk. (Musk returned the favor by endorsing DeSantis for president.) On tour this month to promote his new book, DeSantis has clumsily evaded questions about the Russian invasion. When a reporter for The Times of London pressed the governor, DeSantis scolded him: “Perhaps you should cover some other ground? I think I’ve said enough.”


Even his allies found this medley of past hawkishness and present evasiveness worrying—especially because he was on record, in 2014 and 2015, urging the Obama administration to send both “defensive and offensive” weapons to Ukraine after the Russian annexation of Crimea. So last night, DeSantis delivered a more definitive answer on Tucker Carlson’s Fox News show.

DeSantis’s statement on Ukraine was everything that Russian President Vladimir Putin and his admirers could have wished for from a presumptive candidate for president. The governor began by listing America’s “vital interests” in a way that explicitly excluded NATO and the defense of Europe. He accepted the present Russian line that Putin’s occupation of Ukraine is a mere “territorial dispute.” He endorsed “peace” as the objective without regard to the terms of that peace, another pro-Russian talking point. He conceded the Russian argument that American aid to Ukraine amounts to direct involvement in the conflict. He endorsed and propagated the fantasy—routinely advanced by pro-Putin guests on Fox talk shows—that the Biden administration is somehow plotting “regime change” in Moscow. He denounced as futile the economic embargo against Russia—and baselessly insinuated that Ukraine is squandering U.S. financial assistance. He ended by flirting with the idea of U.S. military operations against Mexico, an idea that originated on the extreme right but has migrated toward the Republican mainstream.


A careful reader of DeSantis’s statement will find that it was composed to provide him with some lawyerly escape hatches from his anti-Ukraine positions. For example, it ruled out F-16s specifically rather than warplanes in general. But those loopholes matter less than the statement’s context. After months of running and hiding, DeSantis at last produced a detailed position on Ukraine—at the summons of a Fox talking head.


There’s a scene in the TV drama Succession in which the media mogul Logan Roy tests would-be candidates for the Republican presidential nomination by ordering them to bring him a Coke. The man who eventually gets the nod is the one who didn’t even wait to be asked—he arrived at the sit-down with Logan’s Coke already in hand. That’s the candidate DeSantis is showing himself to be.

Desantis is a machine engineered to win the Republican presidential nomination. The hardware is a lightly updated version of donor-pleasing mechanics from the Paul Ryan era. The software is newer. DeSantis operates on the latest culture-war code: against vaccinations, against the diversity industry, against gay-themed books in school libraries. The packaging is even more up-to-the-minute. Older models—Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush—made some effort to appeal to moderates and independents. None of that from DeSantis. He refuses to even speak to media platforms not owned by Rupert Murdoch. His message to the rest of America is more of the finger-pointing disdain he showed last year for high-school students who wore masks when he visited a college.

The problem that Republicans confront with this newly engineered machine is this: Have they built themselves a one-stage rocket—one that achieves liftoff but never reaches escape velocity? The DeSantis trajectory to the next Republican National Convention is fast and smooth. He raised nearly $10 million in February—a single month. That’s on top of the more than $90 million remaining from the $200 million he raised for his reelection campaign as governor. His allies talk of raising $200 million more by this time next year, and there is no reason to doubt they will reach their target. DeSantis has been going up in the polls, too. According to Quinnipiac, Donald Trump’s lead over DeSantis in a four-way race between them, Mike Pence, and Nikki Haley has shriveled to just two points.


After that midpoint, however, the DeSantis flight path begins to look underpowered.

Florida Republicans will soon pass—and DeSantis pledged he would sign—a law banning abortion after six weeks. That bill is opposed by 57 percent of those surveyed even inside Florida. Another poll found that 75 percent of Floridians oppose the ban. It also showed that 77 percent oppose permitless concealed carry, which DeSantis supports, and that 61 percent disapprove of his call to ban the teaching of critical race theory as well as diversity, equity, and inclusion policies on college campuses. As the political strategist Simon Rosenberg noted: “Imagine how these play outside FL.”


But even this understates the DeSantis design flaw.

More dangerous than the unpopular positions DeSantis holds are the popular positions he does not hold. What is DeSantis’s view on health care? He doesn’t seem to have one. President Joe Biden has delivered cheap insulin to U.S. users. Good idea or not? Silence from DeSantis. There’s no DeSantis jobs policy; he hardly speaks about inflation. Homelessness? The environment? Nothing. Even on crime, DeSantis must avoid specifics, because specifics might remind his audience that Florida’s homicide numbers are worse than New York’s or California’s.

DeSantis just doesn’t seem to care much about what most voters care about. And voters in turn do not care much about what DeSantis cares most about.

Last fall, DeSantis tried a stunt to influence the midterm elections: At considerable taxpayer expense, he flew asylum seekers to Martha’s Vineyard. The ploy enraged liberals on Twitter. It delighted the Fox audience. Nobody else, however, seemed especially interested. As one strategist said to Politico: “It’s mostly college-educated white women that are going to decide this thing. Republicans win on pocketbook issues with them, not busing migrants across the country.”

A new CNN poll finds that 59 percent of Republicans care most that their candidate agrees with them on the issues; only 41 percent care most about beating Biden. DeSantis has absorbed that wish and is answering it. Last night, in his statement on Ukraine, DeSantis delivered another demonstration of this nomination-or-bust strategy.

Desantis will be a candidate of the Republican base, for the Republican base. Like Trump, he delights in displaying his lack of regard for everyone else. Trump, however, is driven by his psychopathologies and cannot emotionally cope with disagreement. DeSantis is a rational actor and is following what somebody has convinced him is a sound strategy. It looks like this:

  1. Woo the Fox audience and win the Republican nomination.
  2. ??
  3. Become president.
Written out like that, you can see the missing piece. DeSantis is surely intelligent and disciplined enough to see it too. But the programming installed in him prevents him from acting on what he sees. His approach to winning the nomination will put the general election beyond his grasp. He must hope that some external catastrophe will defeat his Democratic opponent for him—a recession, maybe—because DeSantis is choosing a path that cannot get him to his goal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheCainer
Time was you just couldn’t be a complete pussy regarding Russia and be a serious Republican politician. Now they won’t even let you in the door if you aren’t wishy-washy and more than likely to sell America down the river to the Soviets.
 
Last edited:
This wouldn't be surprising. It's Trump's party despite the poster's on here that say he's a thing of the past. It's his party until he decides to stop or goes to jail. And even then, I'm guessing he would still get votes.
 
Interesting take, but about as good as any I've read. Classically, repubs are really republican in the primary and then moderate for national. But that doesn't seem to be the mood anymore, not at least since Trump.

I've gone back and forth on whether DeSantis' "war on woke" is moreso a ploy for republican love, or, what he is really most concerned about. Frum seems to think the former.
 
Last edited:

Florida governor Ron DeSantis has long sought to avoid taking a position on Russia’s war in Ukraine. On the eve of the Russian invasion, 165 Florida National Guard members were stationed on a training mission in Ukraine. They were evacuated in February 2022 to continue their mission in neighboring countries. When they returned to Florida in August, DeSantis did not greet them. He has not praised, or even acknowledged, their work in any public statement.

DeSantis did find time, however, to admonish Ukrainian officials in October for not showing enough gratitude to new Twitter owner Elon Musk. (Musk returned the favor by endorsing DeSantis for president.) On tour this month to promote his new book, DeSantis has clumsily evaded questions about the Russian invasion. When a reporter for The Times of London pressed the governor, DeSantis scolded him: “Perhaps you should cover some other ground? I think I’ve said enough.”


Even his allies found this medley of past hawkishness and present evasiveness worrying—especially because he was on record, in 2014 and 2015, urging the Obama administration to send both “defensive and offensive” weapons to Ukraine after the Russian annexation of Crimea. So last night, DeSantis delivered a more definitive answer on Tucker Carlson’s Fox News show.

DeSantis’s statement on Ukraine was everything that Russian President Vladimir Putin and his admirers could have wished for from a presumptive candidate for president. The governor began by listing America’s “vital interests” in a way that explicitly excluded NATO and the defense of Europe. He accepted the present Russian line that Putin’s occupation of Ukraine is a mere “territorial dispute.” He endorsed “peace” as the objective without regard to the terms of that peace, another pro-Russian talking point. He conceded the Russian argument that American aid to Ukraine amounts to direct involvement in the conflict. He endorsed and propagated the fantasy—routinely advanced by pro-Putin guests on Fox talk shows—that the Biden administration is somehow plotting “regime change” in Moscow. He denounced as futile the economic embargo against Russia—and baselessly insinuated that Ukraine is squandering U.S. financial assistance. He ended by flirting with the idea of U.S. military operations against Mexico, an idea that originated on the extreme right but has migrated toward the Republican mainstream.


A careful reader of DeSantis’s statement will find that it was composed to provide him with some lawyerly escape hatches from his anti-Ukraine positions. For example, it ruled out F-16s specifically rather than warplanes in general. But those loopholes matter less than the statement’s context. After months of running and hiding, DeSantis at last produced a detailed position on Ukraine—at the summons of a Fox talking head.


There’s a scene in the TV drama Succession in which the media mogul Logan Roy tests would-be candidates for the Republican presidential nomination by ordering them to bring him a Coke. The man who eventually gets the nod is the one who didn’t even wait to be asked—he arrived at the sit-down with Logan’s Coke already in hand. That’s the candidate DeSantis is showing himself to be.

Desantis is a machine engineered to win the Republican presidential nomination. The hardware is a lightly updated version of donor-pleasing mechanics from the Paul Ryan era. The software is newer. DeSantis operates on the latest culture-war code: against vaccinations, against the diversity industry, against gay-themed books in school libraries. The packaging is even more up-to-the-minute. Older models—Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush—made some effort to appeal to moderates and independents. None of that from DeSantis. He refuses to even speak to media platforms not owned by Rupert Murdoch. His message to the rest of America is more of the finger-pointing disdain he showed last year for high-school students who wore masks when he visited a college.

The problem that Republicans confront with this newly engineered machine is this: Have they built themselves a one-stage rocket—one that achieves liftoff but never reaches escape velocity? The DeSantis trajectory to the next Republican National Convention is fast and smooth. He raised nearly $10 million in February—a single month. That’s on top of the more than $90 million remaining from the $200 million he raised for his reelection campaign as governor. His allies talk of raising $200 million more by this time next year, and there is no reason to doubt they will reach their target. DeSantis has been going up in the polls, too. According to Quinnipiac, Donald Trump’s lead over DeSantis in a four-way race between them, Mike Pence, and Nikki Haley has shriveled to just two points.


After that midpoint, however, the DeSantis flight path begins to look underpowered.

Florida Republicans will soon pass—and DeSantis pledged he would sign—a law banning abortion after six weeks. That bill is opposed by 57 percent of those surveyed even inside Florida. Another poll found that 75 percent of Floridians oppose the ban. It also showed that 77 percent oppose permitless concealed carry, which DeSantis supports, and that 61 percent disapprove of his call to ban the teaching of critical race theory as well as diversity, equity, and inclusion policies on college campuses. As the political strategist Simon Rosenberg noted: “Imagine how these play outside FL.”


But even this understates the DeSantis design flaw.

More dangerous than the unpopular positions DeSantis holds are the popular positions he does not hold. What is DeSantis’s view on health care? He doesn’t seem to have one. President Joe Biden has delivered cheap insulin to U.S. users. Good idea or not? Silence from DeSantis. There’s no DeSantis jobs policy; he hardly speaks about inflation. Homelessness? The environment? Nothing. Even on crime, DeSantis must avoid specifics, because specifics might remind his audience that Florida’s homicide numbers are worse than New York’s or California’s.

DeSantis just doesn’t seem to care much about what most voters care about. And voters in turn do not care much about what DeSantis cares most about.

Last fall, DeSantis tried a stunt to influence the midterm elections: At considerable taxpayer expense, he flew asylum seekers to Martha’s Vineyard. The ploy enraged liberals on Twitter. It delighted the Fox audience. Nobody else, however, seemed especially interested. As one strategist said to Politico: “It’s mostly college-educated white women that are going to decide this thing. Republicans win on pocketbook issues with them, not busing migrants across the country.”

A new CNN poll finds that 59 percent of Republicans care most that their candidate agrees with them on the issues; only 41 percent care most about beating Biden. DeSantis has absorbed that wish and is answering it. Last night, in his statement on Ukraine, DeSantis delivered another demonstration of this nomination-or-bust strategy.

Desantis will be a candidate of the Republican base, for the Republican base. Like Trump, he delights in displaying his lack of regard for everyone else. Trump, however, is driven by his psychopathologies and cannot emotionally cope with disagreement. DeSantis is a rational actor and is following what somebody has convinced him is a sound strategy. It looks like this:

  1. Woo the Fox audience and win the Republican nomination.
  2. ??
  3. Become president.
Written out like that, you can see the missing piece. DeSantis is surely intelligent and disciplined enough to see it too. But the programming installed in him prevents him from acting on what he sees. His approach to winning the nomination will put the general election beyond his grasp. He must hope that some external catastrophe will defeat his Democratic opponent for him—a recession, maybe—because DeSantis is choosing a path that cannot get him to his goal.
Like someone else has said, he is a jag off.
 
Interesting take, but about as good as any I've read. Classically, repubs are really republican in the primary and then moderate for national. But that doesn't seem to be the mood anymore, not at least since Trump.

I've gone back and forth on whether DeSantis' "war on woke" is moreso a ploy for republican love, or, what he is really most concerned about. Frum seems to think the former.
Reminds me a bit of a chubby Scott Walker.
 
There is a lot of stuff spewed by the left about DeSantis. Most of it isn't true.

DeSantis has some faults, but he is infinitely better than trump.

The Atlantic article is a lot of talk trying to build a wedge between Republicans. I think dems know they dont stand a chance if DeSantis is the candidate. Whereas they think biden could beat trump again (although I think trump would win if it was between trump biden).

The majority of Republicans would rather DeSantis over trump. Democrats would rather trump be the candidate. But the dems better be ready for another trump presidency if they are not smart.
 
There is a lot of stuff spewed by the left about DeSantis. Most of it isn't true.

DeSantis has some faults, but he is infinitely better than trump.

The Atlantic article is a lot of talk trying to build a wedge between Republicans. I think dems know they dont stand a chance if DeSantis is the candidate. Whereas they think biden could beat trump again (although I think trump would win if it was between trump biden).

The majority of Republicans would rather DeSantis over trump. Democrats would rather trump be the candidate. But the dems better be ready for another trump presidency if they are not smart.
I think the article was simply trying to assess what DeSantis is up to from the perspective of political strategy, nothing more.

Consensus right now is that Trump just has too low of a ceiling to his support to knock off Biden. I do think DeSantis is more of a threat, but, as pointed out in the article, he may have to feature more moderate takes to get it done. That's one bit I do questionable about Frum's take; if DeSantis really is that political savvy, he'd see this too. One message for the primaries, another for the election.

original.jpg
 
No! Not yet! Florida law requires him to resign to run for president. We need that to happen first. Then he can completely flame out.
He'll likely enough be POTUS some day. Given that he's A) young, B) capable, and C) a republican, where persistence is usually rewarded.

(unless there is some massive character flaw he possesses that will be exposed soon enough)
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Ree4 and Kelsers
Time was you just couldn’t be a complete pussy regarding Russia and be a serious Republican politician. Now they won’t even let you in the door if you aren’t wishy-washy and more than likely to sell America down the river to the Soviets.
Frum and other neocons welcome you with open arms Flick.
 
He'll likely enough be POTUS some day. Given that he's A) young, B) capable, and C) a republican, where persistence is usually rewarded.

(unless there is some massive character flaw he possesses that will be exposed soon enough)
He's out after this term regardless. If he loses the nomination, he will also lose the spotlight he now controls and desperately craves. Without it, he will fade away.
 
He's out after this term regardless. If he loses the nomination, he will also lose the spotlight he now controls and desperately craves. Without it, he will fade away.
Eh, I don't get that feeling with him. He seems like a fixture in republican politics so long as he doesn't prove to be a drone of a candidate like some fear. I guess we'll find out.
 
Eh, I don't get that feeling with him. He seems like a fixture in republican politics so long as he doesn't prove to be a drone of a candidate like some fear. I guess we'll find out.
He can probably run through Rubio now to get the Senate seat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lindemann
There is a lot of stuff spewed by the left about DeSantis. Most of it isn't true.

DeSantis has some faults, but he is infinitely better than trump.

The Atlantic article is a lot of talk trying to build a wedge between Republicans. I think dems know they dont stand a chance if DeSantis is the candidate. Whereas they think biden could beat trump again (although I think trump would win if it was between trump biden).

The majority of Republicans would rather DeSantis over trump. Democrats would rather trump be the candidate. But the dems better be ready for another trump presidency if they are not smart.
You are delusional. Seek help.
 
He'll likely enough be POTUS some day. Given that he's A) young, B) capable, and C) a republican, where persistence is usually rewarded.

(unless there is some massive character flaw he possesses that will be exposed soon enough)
Most people find being fascist-light to be a character flaw. Thank God.
 
I'm not much of a political strategy person, so just a couple of thoughts

This could work:

  1. Woo the Fox audience and win the Republican nomination.
  2. ??
  3. Become president.

The discussion about the policy choices and how favorable/unfavorable they are viewed by people seem to suggest that there is some strong link between policy positions and strength of support. I agree that there should be in theory, but I am not certain that there is.

For instance, in 2020 the Republican platform was basically: "we're for Trump", a Beautiful Health Care Plan never materialized, did anyone care? He still almost won, and that's with all the Trump baggage that no one else has.
 
I think the article was simply trying to assess what DeSantis is up to from the perspective of political strategy, nothing more.

Consensus right now is that Trump just has too low of a ceiling to his support to knock off Biden. I do think DeSantis is more of a threat, but, as pointed out in the article, he may have to feature more moderate takes to get it done. That's one bit I do questionable about Frum's take; if DeSantis really is that political savvy, he'd see this too. One message for the primaries, another for the election.

original.jpg
Fair enough. I do hope he takes a moderate stance instead of going far right. it seems like the right is determined to derail themselves. I think if either party leaned to the middle they could win. But I'm a moderate so who am I to judge.

I agree that trump is not likely to win, but in the instance it is between trump and biden, I think it's a toss up at best. A lot of republicans really don't like biden.

I do think dems are trying to get biden the nomination over desantis because I think they know they have a better chance of beating trump instead of desantis.
I am impressed every time I listen to desantis speak. I think he has a plan, and I hope he knows how to beat trump and biden.
 
Most people find being fascist-light to be a character flaw. Thank God.
State level governance vs federal. Apparently Florida constitutional law permits his actions.

The question is whether or not he'd stay within his lane as POTUS.

Trump had no concept of a lane and did whatever he could to get whatever he wants. (and was crazy, on top of that) It's not obvious DeSantis is that.
 
Fair enough. I do hope he takes a moderate stance instead of going far right. it seems like the right is determined to derail themselves. I think if either party leaned to the middle they could win. But I'm a moderate so who am I to judge.

I agree that trump is not likely to win, but in the instance it is between trump and biden, I think it's a toss up at best. A lot of republicans really don't like biden.

I do think dems are trying to get biden the nomination over desantis because I think they know they have a better chance of beating trump instead of desantis.
I am impressed every time I listen to desantis speak. I think he has a plan, and I hope he knows how to beat trump and biden.
If you’re truly a moderate what do you like about DeSantis?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ree4 and fsu1jreed
State level governance vs federal. Apparently Florida constitutional law permits his actions.

The question is whether or not he'd stay within his lane as POTUS.

Trump had no concept of a lane and did whatever he could to get whatever he wants. (and was crazy, on top of that) It's not obvious DeSantis is that.
Did you miss how many of his proposed laws were declared unconstitutional?
 
  • Like
Reactions: fsu1jreed
I don't agree with a lot of it but we definitely know Biden's position on issues.
And say what you will, Biden is also willing to compromise and to piss off people in the base.

Look at the recent Willow drilling decision for an example.

On the other side of the political spectrum, Republicans are TERRIFIED of pissing off their base, and will go to absurd (and self-defeating) lengths to avoid it.
 
And say what you will, Biden is also willing to compromise and to piss off people in the base.

Look at the recent Willow drilling decision for an example.

On the other side of the political spectrum, Republicans are TERRIFIED of pissing off their base, and will go to absurd (and self-defeating) lengths to avoid it.
The base is strong.
 
State level governance vs federal. Apparently Florida constitutional law permits his actions.

The question is whether or not he'd stay within his lane as POTUS.

Trump had no concept of a lane and did whatever he could to get whatever he wants. (and was crazy, on top of that) It's not obvious DeSantis is that.
As an Iowan all I see is a governor pushing a FAR right agenda. I get pissed at every decision she makes. Beginning with this voucher grift. DeSantis doesn’t seem any different from her. He’s no moderate. The president we have is much more moderate than anyone I see in the Republican Party.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ree4
Another big question: Why did DeSantis do so well in Florida last election? Could the dems really not muster up any sort of decent competitor to take on DeSantis and all his big flaws? Did most voters not really care? Did he do well enough outside of the flaws?
 
And say what you will, Biden is also willing to compromise and to piss off people in the base.

Look at the recent Willow drilling decision for an example.

On the other side of the political spectrum, Republicans are TERRIFIED of pissing off their base, and will go to absurd (and self-defeating) lengths to avoid it.

I reckon that terror was justified during the Trump years.

Trump saying something indefensible was nearly a daily occurrence. The rank and file did their best to evade but if they couldn't: they could debase themselves, display loyalty and toe the company line or they could do the decent thing, be labeled a disloyal RINO who gets flanked in the primary by a ultra MAGA crazy and everything that comes with that.

That wasn't that long ago, hopefully it starts to change.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT