Is the ‘silver lining’ in the CJF injury cloud the elimination of the 4 guard offense?

[KcTo]

Fran has been using the 4 guard offense since the Nunge injury adding ConMac to the lineup and pairing him with 3 very effective 3pt shooters and relying on their elite scoring efficiency using the 3 ball would overcome their defensive limitations with 4 guards (4G).

JoBo goes down, and Fran decides to stay with the 4G and inserting JoeT to the lineup as commenting that he “wanted Kriener as Garza backup (should foul trouble arise)”.

So this team, as configured, continues to perform poorly defensively, even further regressing recently with IU getting 15 offensive rebounds, Purdue collecting 5 offensive rebounds in the fateful 1st 3m fueling their spring to 17-2 lead, and recall on the road at jNWN, where this team gave up 8-9 off rebounds in the 1h.

it should come to nobody’s surprise that offensive rebounds lead to high 2pt FG% shots and in deed Iowa is 13th in the B1G.

Now the silver lining in all of this is that Fran is now required to play a 2 Big (2B) lineup, Garza+Kriener and with Pemsl getting all of the back up minutes at these 2 spots.

Kriener and Pemsl are both very effective rebounders at B1G level, both are plus defenders, both block shots, this will without question improve the rebounding edge, maybe winning this category, both will reduce easy 2nd Chance points. Consider Kriener now getting 30-35 minutes and Pemsl 15-20.

Recall VS MD Kriener started and Pemsl played +20m, and Iowa responded by handing the league leading Terps their worse loss of the year with their poorest offensive showing in B1G, ever.

Offensively, now add Krieners 66% 2pt FG%, his added minutes, his added FGA (what if he gets 12FGA/Gm?) and you’ve got your 3rd scorer, that plays defense. Recall TCF has been a poorer defender all year.

in addition, a 2 man game with Garza and Kriener, with either playing the post or 3pt feeder role will add higher % 3pt FGA for both, so look for that wrinkle.

In summary, I hope CJF recovers quickly and well, but I also see this 2B lineup being better equipped for playing winning B1G defense and riding Garza, Weezy’s offense to out perform while CJP is out.

 

[thirdandpunting]

I disagree with you

 

[anon_gjzkhykcp9iuj]

I'm with third

 

[kceasthawk]

Fran has been using the 4 guard offense since the Nunge injury adding ConMac to the lineup and pairing him with 3 very effective 3pt shooters and relying on their elite scoring efficiency using the 3 ball would overcome their defensive limitations with 4 guards (4G).

JoBo goes down, and Fran decides to stay with the 4G and inserting JoeT to the lineup as commenting that he “wanted Kriener as Garza backup (should foul trouble arise)”.

So this team, as configured, continues to perform poorly defensively, even further regressing recently with IU getting 15 offensive rebounds, Purdue collecting 5 offensive rebounds in the fateful 1st 3m fueling their spring to 17-2 lead, and recall on the road at jNWN, where this team gave up 8-9 off rebounds in the 1h.

it should come to nobody’s surprise that offensive rebounds lead to high 2pt FG% shots and in deed Iowa is 13th in the B1G.

Now the silver lining in all of this is that Fran is now required to play a 2 Big (2B) lineup, Garza+Kriener and with Pemsl getting all of the back up minutes at these 2 spots.

Kriener and Pemsl are both very effective rebounders at B1G level, both are plus defenders, both block shots, this will without question improve the rebounding edge, maybe winning this category, both will reduce easy 2nd Chance points. Consider Kriener now getting 30-35 minutes and Pemsl 15-20.

Recall VS MD Kriener started and Pemsl played +20m, and Iowa responded by handing the league leading Terps their worse loss of the year with their poorest offensive showing in B1G, ever.

Offensively, now add Krieners 66% 2pt FG%, his added minutes, his added FGA (what if he gets 12FGA/Gm?) and you’ve got your 3rd scorer, that plays defense. Recall TCF has been a poorer defender all year.

in addition, a 2 man game with Garza and Kriener, with either playing the post or 3pt feeder role will add higher % 3pt FGA for both, so look for that wrinkle.

In summary, I hope CJF recovers quickly and well, but I also see this 2B lineup being better equipped for playing winning B1G defense and riding Garza, Weezy’s offense to out perform while CJP is out.

First off this really went south with your comment that CP is "a plus defender". Guarding who? He doesn't have the size to battle some like Oturu, Cockburn, or really any of the leagues better bigs, and he can't guard on the perimeter. As for Kreiner, he's been reverting to his old ways of silly fouls and turnovers. He'll need to really step up, or he'll be fouled out in the first half.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Fran has been using the 4 guard offense since the Nunge injury adding ConMac to the lineup and pairing him with 3 very effective 3pt shooters and relying on their elite scoring efficiency using the 3 ball would overcome their defensive limitations with 4 guards (4G).

JoBo goes down, and Fran decides to stay with the 4G and inserting JoeT to the lineup as commenting that he “wanted Kriener as Garza backup (should foul trouble arise)”.

So this team, as configured, continues to perform poorly defensively, even further regressing recently with IU getting 15 offensive rebounds, Purdue collecting 5 offensive rebounds in the fateful 1st 3m fueling their spring to 17-2 lead, and recall on the road at jNWN, where this team gave up 8-9 off rebounds in the 1h.

it should come to nobody’s surprise that offensive rebounds lead to high 2pt FG% shots and in deed Iowa is 13th in the B1G.

Now the silver lining in all of this is that Fran is now required to play a 2 Big (2B) lineup, Garza+Kriener and with Pemsl getting all of the back up minutes at these 2 spots.

Kriener and Pemsl are both very effective rebounders at B1G level, both are plus defenders, both block shots, this will without question improve the rebounding edge, maybe winning this category, both will reduce easy 2nd Chance points. Consider Kriener now getting 30-35 minutes and Pemsl 15-20.

Recall VS MD Kriener started and Pemsl played +20m, and Iowa responded by handing the league leading Terps their worse loss of the year with their poorest offensive showing in B1G, ever.

Offensively, now add Krieners 66% 2pt FG%, his added minutes, his added FGA (what if he gets 12FGA/Gm?) and you’ve got your 3rd scorer, that plays defense. Recall TCF has been a poorer defender all year.

in addition, a 2 man game with Garza and Kriener, with either playing the post or 3pt feeder role will add higher % 3pt FGA for both, so look for that wrinkle.

In summary, I hope CJF recovers quickly and well, but I also see this 2B lineup being better equipped for playing winning B1G defense and riding Garza, Weezy’s offense to out perform while CJP is out.

Connor has always been in the starting lineup. Joe T was added.

I think you're smokin' rocks.

 

[KcTo]

First off this really went south with your comment that CP is "a plus defender". Guarding who? He doesn't have the size to battle some like Oturu, Cockburn, or really any of the leagues better bigs, and he can't guard on the perimeter. As for Kreiner, he's been reverting to his old ways of silly fouls and turnovers. He'll need to really step up, or he'll be fouled out in the first half.

Sports Reference advanced analytics has Pemsl as highest rated defender on team

 

[KcTo]

Connor has always been in the starting lineup. Joe T was added.

I think you're smokin' rocks.

JoeTO was added when jobo went down, not nunge, correct ?

 

[pocha444444]

Sports Reference advanced analytics has Pemsl as highest rated defender on team

You can't trust the ratings on that site then obviously. Probably skewed due to small sample size or something.

 

[KcTo]

Rebounds Iowa 6 MN 2
MN shooting 1-7

mn only points on a JoeTO TO

 

[pocha444444]

Sports Reference advanced analytics has Pemsl as highest rated defender on team

And as soon as I say that he has a great block and another good possession right after. Something is still off with that rating though.

 

[kceasthawk]

Sports Reference advanced analytics has Pemsl as highest rated defender on team

Just another case where stats don't tell the whole story....

 

[LGEND24]

Rebounds Iowa 6 MN 2
MN shooting 1-7

mn only points on a JoeTO TO

Rebounds
MN - 21
IA - 18

 

[KcTo]

Rebounds
MN - 21
IA - 18

Most all came on long rebounds on missed 3s to their guards..
Oturu only 3

and of course Fran sits Garza for the majority of half, and while he was in Iowa was winning this rebound battle

Oturo now 3-8, 3 rebounds, 2 TO, as the 2B lineup is keeping him way below is averages

 

[KcTo]

In summary, Kriener and Pemsl play high minutes, and contribute 16 pts, 9 boards, 5 blocks, and limit POY candidate Uturo to below season averages, winning the rebounding battle, winning the defensive FG% battle,

this was a tough game and this group showed they can play muscle ball, well...

Just wait until Weezy gets back to his game

 

[BeepBeepInMyJeep]

No silver lining, we are not the same offensive team without CJF, someone has to be right on him every second he's on the court, they can leave BE, CM and JT. It's a lot easier to defend us when there's really only one true deep threat in JW.

 

[H4wkfan4life]

Most all came on long rebounds on missed 3s to their guards..
Oturu only 3

and of course Fran sits Garza for the majority of half, and while he was in Iowa was winning this rebound battle

Oturo now 3-8, 3 rebounds, 2 TO, as the 2B lineup is keeping him way below is averages

and kept him eligible to come in and LET THE PEACOCK FLY!!!

 

[like-woahh]

My initial reaction is to call OP a dummy.. but Oturu was 22/12/5 blocks in first game against Iowa and only 15/6/3 blocks in this game at home. Iowa was obviously missing CJ's offensve, but maybe it's better off the bench? I don't know, dude may be on to something.

 

[KcTo]

No silver lining, we are not the same offensive team without CJF, someone has to be right on him every second he's on the court, they can leave BE, CM and JT. It's a lot easier to defend us when there's really only one true deep threat in JW.

Defense is why this team loses, 13th in FG% allowed, today that I think everyone will this.

today they held MN to 31% FG%
Today they held Oturo, a 55% FG shooter to 6-13
pemsl and Kriener provided 5 block shots.

Tough ass defense and rebounding wins in brutally tough games like today

CJF is a minus defensively like a jobo

I give Fran credit for using this lineup (minus JoeTO) down the stretch, 13-0 for the win,
BTW...Just like he did at Illinois

 

[Packer54]

Fran has been using the 4 guard offense since the Nunge injury adding ConMac to the lineup and pairing him with 3 very effective 3pt shooters and relying on their elite scoring efficiency using the 3 ball would overcome their defensive limitations with 4 guards (4G).

JoBo goes down, and Fran decides to stay with the 4G and inserting JoeT to the lineup as commenting that he “wanted Kriener as Garza backup (should foul trouble arise)”.

So this team, as configured, continues to perform poorly defensively, even further regressing recently with IU getting 15 offensive rebounds, Purdue collecting 5 offensive rebounds in the fateful 1st 3m fueling their spring to 17-2 lead, and recall on the road at jNWN, where this team gave up 8-9 off rebounds in the 1h.

it should come to nobody’s surprise that offensive rebounds lead to high 2pt FG% shots and in deed Iowa is 13th in the B1G.

Now the silver lining in all of this is that Fran is now required to play a 2 Big (2B) lineup, Garza+Kriener and with Pemsl getting all of the back up minutes at these 2 spots.

Kriener and Pemsl are both very effective rebounders at B1G level, both are plus defenders, both block shots, this will without question improve the rebounding edge, maybe winning this category, both will reduce easy 2nd Chance points. Consider Kriener now getting 30-35 minutes and Pemsl 15-20.

Recall VS MD Kriener started and Pemsl played +20m, and Iowa responded by handing the league leading Terps their worse loss of the year with their poorest offensive showing in B1G, ever.

Offensively, now add Krieners 66% 2pt FG%, his added minutes, his added FGA (what if he gets 12FGA/Gm?) and you’ve got your 3rd scorer, that plays defense. Recall TCF has been a poorer defender all year.

in addition, a 2 man game with Garza and Kriener, with either playing the post or 3pt feeder role will add higher % 3pt FGA for both, so look for that wrinkle.

In summary, I hope CJF recovers quickly and well, but I also see this 2B lineup being better equipped for playing winning B1G defense and riding Garza, Weezy’s offense to out perform while CJP is out.

Joe disappeared again. Without another shooter in the line up it is tough sledding for us. We need CJ bad if for no other reason it gets Joe better looks. That was ugly ass stuff today but we won on the road. RK and JW must play better. CJ just needs to play.

 

[KcTo]

Joe disappeared again. Without another shooter in the line up it is tough sledding for us. We need CJ bad if for no other reason it gets Joe better looks. That was ugly ass stuff today but we won on the road. RK and JW must play better. CJ just needs to play.

Although Kriener’s shot weren’t falling, he was the only one that had the nuggets to shoot the ball and take to hole aggressively
He did finish with 7R 4B 2A 1TO and consider he was playing Oturo M2M most of the game, and held him to well below his averages..

 

[SSG T]

No, the bad thing about CJ's injury is not being to use the 4 guard offense as much.

 

[Packer54]

Although Kriener’s shot weren’t falling, he was the only one that had the nuggets to shoot the ball and take to hole aggressively
He did finish with 7R 4B 2A 1TO and consider he was playing Oturo M2M most of the game, and held him to well below his averages..

RK had some moments no doubt. His shot was not close. He CAN be effective close to the basket but when he is missing ( and he was not close today) he is falling away on his jump hook. His jump shot was ugly today. Everyone has tough shooting days though. We escaped

 

[KcTo]

No, the bad thing about CJ's injury is not being to use the 4 guard offense as much.

Was it the defense of that unit that you liked? The offense?

I like to win, and just like versus MD, with CJF out, Iowa used a defensive unit to win...

just think if they get anything offensively from Weezy, or Garza plays 35m, they win running away, like vs MD

 

[Eternal Return]

Sports Reference advanced analytics has Pemsl as highest rated defender on team

I think this was what stood out today. His defense, rebounding, and blockouts on the boards were huge, something Iowa has missed on the road most of the year. The first half, Minnesota was getting a lot of offensive rebounds, but Pemsl helped shut that down for the most part in the 2nd half. He was huge in this game and gives Iowa a third big down low. He's good in the offensive flow, too, even if he isn't scoring much. D down low and rebounding are the plus he provides on the floor, though, and Iowa's 4-guard lineup has been getting burned on offensive boards (on the road, especially).

 

[KcTo]

RK had some moments no doubt. His shot was not close. He CAN be effective close to the basket but when he is missing ( and he was not close today) he is falling away on his jump hook. His jump shot was ugly today. Everyone has tough shooting days though. We escaped

I agree, but there was also nobody on this team that has the nuggets to shoot the ball with. Confidence and it was his 9 1H points that kept us in the game.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

To state the obvious. What we know is the team has played much better after going Garzilla + 4 then it played with two bigs.

With CJ injured we have to go with Ryan because a Bakari start means there are no reserve guards. We at least have Cordell to bring off the pine for Garzilla and Ryan.

We start five good basketball players (with CJ) and they play good basketball. We've got the monster in the middle and everyone else flying around. The boys attack from every angle and Garzilla rules the post in a most classic fashion.

 

[Eternal Return]

I agree, but there was also nobody on this team that has the nuggets to shoot the ball with. Confidence and it was his 9 1H points that kept us in the game.

He had good moments and bad moments, but overall this was his best game in weeks. Hopefully he can find his outside shot again. It also helped that he didn't get in foul trouble.

 

[KcTo]

I think this was what stood out today. His defense, rebounding, and blockouts on the boards were huge, something Iowa has missed on the road most of the year. The first half, Minnesota was getting a lot of offensive rebounds, but Pemsl helped shut that down for the most part in the 2nd half. He was huge in this game and gives Iowa a third big down low. He's good in the offensive flow, too, even if he isn't scoring much. D down low and rebounding are the plus he provides on the floor, though, and Iowa's 4-guard lineup has been getting burned on offensive boards (on the road, especially).

Dude, thank you for the acknowledgment of pemsl’s defensive contributions

When he gets minutes, he brings a tough intensity to the floor, he’s an enforcer too,
And his cool, 3-3, plays well offensively, no bad shots.

 

[KcTo]

To state the obvious. What we know is the team has played much better after going Garzilla + 4 then it played with two bigs.

With CJ injured we have to go with Ryan because a Bakari start means there are no reserve guards. We at least have Cordell to bring off the pine for Garzilla and Ryan.

We start five good basketball players (with CJ) and they play good basketball. We've got the monster in the middle and everyone else flying around. The boys attack from every angle and Garzilla rules the post in a most classic fashion.

Iowa drubs MD, holding them to 49pts
Iowa beats desperate MN on road, holding them to 55pts.

these are 2 of Iowa’s best wins of year,

now you maybe implicating Nunges play, which does have merit, however, the team that beat MD and MN, did so with experienced bigs Kriener and pemsl on the defensive side...

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Iowa drubs MD, holding them to 49pts
Iowa beats desperate MN on road, holding them to 55pts.

these are 2 of Iowa’s best wins of year,

now you maybe implicating Nunges play, which does have merit, however, the team that beat MD and MN, did so with experienced bigs Kriener and pemsl on the defensive side...

The boys are gritty. They've won with both line ups, don't forget wins over Illinois, Bucky, Rutgers, TT and Cincy.. Ryan certainly isn't the kiss of death some people predicted. Its good to bring him off the pine because, again, he's versatile. Ryan has been shooting poorly lately.

 

[KcTo]

The boys are gritty. They've won with both line ups, don't forget wins over Illinois, Bucky, Rutgers, TT and Cincy.. Ryan certainly isn't the kiss of death some people predicted. Its good to bring him off the pine because, again, he's versatile. Ryan has been shooting poorly lately.

2 of Iowa’s best 3 wins, MD and MN on road, we’re done without CJF.

wiski, RUT, Mich we’re all at home and Iowa was favored.
And 2 of 3 wins were won because of defense

recall who blocked the 3p FGA to tie with 0.06 seconds remaining?
That is defense in the perimeter, something iA has sucked at the last 2 road games.

 

[Rudolph]

Basically what we learn is players tend to play better when they get the minutes they need to settle into a rhythm. That, and Kriener and Pemsl have played pretty well together since they were freshmen.

It would be really, really gratifying if Pemsl finishes this year well and then has a strong senior season.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Love to see Big Cordell finish up the year strong. He's gotten big and is moving a little better the last few games. I'm sure he gains confidence every day the post injury/surgery pain diminishes. The kid has overcome a lot, including his own dumb kid shit.

What these Hawks need is Cordell giving seven or eight minutes of solid rebounding and defense at the four-with those minutes climbing as long as CJ is out and Ryan is starting. Every point he scores is a kind of bonus.

 

[KcTo]

I disagree with you

Fran has been using the 4 guard offense since the Nunge injury adding ConMac to the lineup and pairing him with 3 very effective 3pt shooters and relying on their elite scoring efficiency using the 3 ball would overcome their defensive limitations with 4 guards (4G).

JoBo goes down, and Fran decides to stay with the 4G and inserting JoeT to the lineup as commenting that he “wanted Kriener as Garza backup (should foul trouble arise)”.

So this team, as configured, continues to perform poorly defensively, even further regressing recently with IU getting 15 offensive rebounds, Purdue collecting 5 offensive rebounds in the fateful 1st 3m fueling their spring to 17-2 lead, and recall on the road at jNWN, where this team gave up 8-9 off rebounds in the 1h.

it should come to nobody’s surprise that offensive rebounds lead to high 2pt FG% shots and in deed Iowa is 13th in the B1G.

Now the silver lining in all of this is that Fran is now required to play a 2 Big (2B) lineup, Garza+Kriener and with Pemsl getting all of the back up minutes at these 2 spots.

Kriener and Pemsl are both very effective rebounders at B1G level, both are plus defenders, both block shots, this will without question improve the rebounding edge, maybe winning this category, both will reduce easy 2nd Chance points. Consider Kriener now getting 30-35 minutes and Pemsl 15-20.

Recall VS MD Kriener started and Pemsl played +20m, and Iowa responded by handing the league leading Terps their worse loss of the year with their poorest offensive showing in B1G, ever.

Offensively, now add Krieners 66% 2pt FG%, his added minutes, his added FGA (what if he gets 12FGA/Gm?) and you’ve got your 3rd scorer, that plays defense. Recall TCF has been a poorer defender all year.

in addition, a 2 man game with Garza and Kriener, with either playing the post or 3pt feeder role will add higher % 3pt FGA for both, so look for that wrinkle.

In summary, I hope CJF recovers quickly and well, but I also see this 2B lineup being better equipped for playing winning B1G defense and riding Garza, Weezy’s offense to out perform while CJP is out.

So reposting this assertion that was made prior to the MN game, and we see the validity of this as and I believe they have the real potential to ‘out perform’ the expectations, and the win at MN is the 1st piece of evidence to support this position.

“....In summary, I hope CJF recovers quickly and well, but I also see this 2B lineup being better equipped for playing winning B1G defense and riding Garza, Weezy’s offense to out perform while CJP is out....”

 

[HawkRugged17]

So reposting this assertion that was made prior to the MN game, and we see the validity of this as and I believe they have the real potential to ‘out perform’ the expectations, and the win at MN is the 1st piece of evidence to support this position.

“....In summary, I hope CJF recovers quickly and well, but I also see this 2B lineup being better equipped for playing winning B1G defense and riding Garza, Weezy’s offense to out perform while CJP is out....”

The 2 big lineup wasn't good at Nebraska ... so, there's that.

 

[KcTo]

The 2 big lineup wasn't good at Nebraska ... so, there's that.

Well actually it wasn’t that bad, What was bad was allowing JoeTO, the worst shooter on the team, to shoot MORE THAN garza, the BEST shooter in the conference

Maybe if JoeTO plays 10m, instead of 35m, and commits 1 TO, instead of 4TO, And shoots 4x, instead of 18x, then Iowa wins?

so there’s that...

 

[HawkRugged17]

Well actually it wasn’t that bad, What was bad was allowing JoeTO, the worst shooter on the team, to shoot MORE THAN garza, the BEST shooter in the conference

Maybe if JoeTO plays 10m, instead of 35m, and commits 1 TO, instead of 4TO, And shoots 4x, instead of 18x, then Iowa wins?

so there’s that...

There's a reason that CJF normally starts and Kriener doesn't. So, there is that ...

 

[KcTo]

There's a reason that CJF normally starts and Kriener doesn't. So, there is that ...

Well, rather than devolving further, we’re gonna see the 2B lineup for the foreseeable future, so let’s watch it play out, and see if the 2B lineup can continue to build its resume which does include Iowa’s 2 best wins...

 

[HawkRugged17]

Well, rather than devolving further, we’re gonna see the 2B lineup for the foreseeable future, so let’s watch it play out, and see if the 2B lineup can continue to build its resume which does include Iowa’s 2 best wins...

4 guards (Bohannon, CJF, Connor, and Joe W) started against #12 Texas Tech as well. I consider that win better than at Minnesota.

 

[Hawk-Fran1]

If anyone thinks we are better with out CJ .......... I have some ice to sell ya in Iowa City