Israeli "Surprise" Against Iran
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
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www.reuters.com
For the record I am pro-Israel but they aren't innocent in any of this that has gone on my entire lifetime.
Ditto.
Meanwhile...
‘Barbaric attack’: Armed settlers assault Palestinians on first day of olive harvest
Palestinian villagers say this was the ‘most brutal’ assault they have ever endured
www.middleeasteye.net
Israeli soldiers beat renowned Palestinian activist to death in Hebron
Ziad Abu Helaiel was famous for peacefully confronting troops during demonstrations
www.middleeasteye.net
Israel seizes Unrwa headquarters' land in occupied East Jerusalem
Announcement comes as Knesset pushes forward bill to ban refugee agency activities in Israel and occupied territories
www.middleeasteye.net
Middle East Eye
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Agree with your first two graphs.
But this: “Israel isn’t slaughtering a bunch of people haphazardly” is objectively false.
Both sides are committing war crimes. Both sides are intractably committed to the extermination of the other.
Indians kept attacking settlers, and kept losing wars.
Until they got tired of it and accepted peace.
Because today people would have the Allies pursue a cease fire, and the preservation of the Nazi regime.
Estimated deaths among the French from Operation Overlord were 25-39k innocents.
Would a ceasefire in 1944 been a better move in your view?
In general Palestinians have no voice . Hamas won the 2006 election with a minority of the vote. They ended up being grossly over represented in the government relative to their actual support and since that time have consolidated their power and refused to hold elections. If a proportional representative system has been used they would have had a minority of the seats and would've had to work with alternative parties.
There's a whole ugly rift on the left because Biden has been so pro-Israel. Where have you been? In mom's basement or just eating lead paint chips?
For what reason would they have to target aid workers? Also, when it comes to defending yourself against an entire group of people that aren’t regular military and have no identifying uniforms you are always on guard.
I don’t excuse killing innocents, however I can’t think of a war when innocent people weren’t casualties.
Ok, so if Israel didn’t fire another weapon would you say this war would be over?
I can promise you Israel isn’t just “exterminating Palestinian people”, or there would be many more casualties than there have been. It’s not a “both sides” type of deal.
Multiple countries have called for extermination of those people.
I don't know, but they did. A general was allegedly fired for it and others got reprimands, whatever that means. I agree with your last 2 sentences.
As I recall, the story was that they were targeted but mis-identified as combatants.
I believe some of you won't admit it but liked what Hamas did last fall and are only upset about Israel's response.
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The Netanyahu government has said explicitly it will not support a Palestinian state. Therefore, they are announcing a state of perpetual war as the Palestinian people will never agree to live under occupation for perpetuity. So no, it’s not a “final solution” genocide, but it is very much a refusal to accept sovereignty of an entire nation, which effectively “eliminates” them as an independent people.
Concurrently, the Hamas and Hezbollah charters call for the expulsion of all Jews from the region. Which is also effectively “elimination”
So yeah, intractable conflict. 🤷♂️
This is not true, there is no both sides to this argument. No one ever answers: what would happen if the jews laid down their arms and what would happen if palestinians laid down theirs..
When did the Netanyahu regime say this? If it’s after Oct 7th, that’s null. All bets were off after that day.
There’s apparently some stuff you don’t know yet.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world
Describe what you think would have been ceasefire terms that were a preferable basis upon which to preserve the Third Reich.
If Israel wanted to exterminate the Palestinians they have the means to do it.
If the Palestinians had the means they’d exterminate every Jew in Israel.
That’s my take.
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If the Palestinians laid down their arms Israel would continue its occupation. This is the offficial stance of the current Israeli government. How naive are you?
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Netanyahu ran on rejecting a two-state solution.
why should we take any of your comments seriously when you don’t even have a basic grasp on the issue?
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Probably not but a helluva lot of us libs get accused of being pro terrorist and that's kooky talk. I hate Hamas but feel for the Palestinians - it's been a shitshow over there my entire life. Soooooo much killing.
You're kidding right?
There's a big god damned difference between occupation and complete extermination. there would be occupation because one group forced the other to put up an iron dome to protect itself.
Let's pretend that the muslims were buddhists. Israel would let them worship, have temples, and coexist. Would they likely still want control, yes.
Now let's pretend that all jews where buddhists and Hammas (or any number of islamic militant groups) were in charge.
They would still be under a convert or die policy. You have a fundament misunderstanding of what islam (in your lifetime) is. That is naive. How the heck can you even equate two groups when one one of them fundamentally subjugates 1/2 of their own population?
You're acting as though trump and harris represent the same threat.
There's a big difference between this take and torbee saying but "both sides".
Your's is a logical take.
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Well Tom’s take and mine are the same so . . .
Wow, talk about a thread topic that went off-track, but low key is still on track...which I will explain later...
First point. Yes the history is deeper than what happened on 10/7, but the fact of the matter is Hamas invaded and attacked/killed a lot of innocent people for the most part at the music festival and many civilian homes etc. They weren't attacking attacking military bases that day for the most part, mostly innocent people. To WWJD and Ree or whoever, what was Israel's response supposed to be in your opinion? Nothing but talks? What would the US's or UK's or any other super power's response to that type of scenario have been? Exactly.
Second point...When Israel retaliated, and after other countries tried to get both sides together for peace talks, Israel's response was a firm, when ALL of the hostages were returned, then they would entertain peace negotiations. ALL of the hostages never were returned, not sure what is so hard for people to comprehend about that. So again, Ree and WWJD, make fun of anyone who leans towards Israel on this or insult their intelligence for believing mainstream media or say "but but you don't know the history blah blah..." but at the same time you believe all of the propaganda that Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran put out there? Like for instance the hospital in Palestine that was bombed last November or December and all major news outlets ran with the "horrible atrocities" that were committed with that bombing, even major US media outlets. While the US and Israel said they were still investigating it, the whole world, social media and campus riots blew up against Israel even more. Well about two weeks later or so it was determined that Hamas had "inadvertently misfired" their own missile and hit their own hospital. Major Western media outlets issued a retraction and apology, but the damage to Israel's reputation was already done, and in this day and age of media a retraction that late isn't enough. So yes, we can also laugh at you for believing the other side's story every time just as much as you mock us. Not saying they are always wrong, but overall I will side against the ones using human shields to hide their headquarters and officers.
Third...This is where I will bring it back on topic to the OP thread title, or how it low key is actually about the Israel response to Iran. Hamas and Hezbollah are basically Iran, or their proxies. They aren't fighting Palestine or Lebanon, they are fighting groups with power and influence backed by Iran, so as much misdirection you all thought you were doing in this thread with the the evil Israelis thing and making it just about Palestine, you are in a way proving why they should attack Iran. They are the root of the problem, and without them, Hamas and Hezbollah would soon become an afterthought as they would lose most of their backing. Get Hamas and any like-minded terrorist group out of power there, and maybe they could be a two state system, but at this point now it seems like that isn't an option for the foreseeable future. To be clear though, Iran causes more instability in that region than any other country, either first hand or by proxy through other groups.
I'll just close it with this, I hate the fact that this is even a topic, I feel for all the innocent people on both sides of this war. The fact that these types of evil and conflicts still exist in the world, is well, depressing. That being said, Israel is more than capable, with or without the US's and their allies' backing, to take out Iran's nuclear production and research, and inflict major damage to Iran. Yes they use some of our weapons and technology, but their military is well-trained and their intelligence is first class. They can, and most likely should, disable Iran's nuclear advancement right now, because the longer they wait, the more of an issue Iran becomes, not just for them, but for the US, and by default the world.
First point. Yes the history is deeper than what happened on 10/7, but the fact of the matter is Hamas invaded and attacked/killed a lot of innocent people for the most part at the music festival and many civilian homes etc. They weren't attacking attacking military bases that day for the most part, mostly innocent people. To WWJD and Ree or whoever, what was Israel's response supposed to be in your opinion? Nothing but talks? What would the US's or UK's or any other super power's response to that type of scenario have been? Exactly.
Second point...When Israel retaliated, and after other countries tried to get both sides together for peace talks, Israel's response was a firm, when ALL of the hostages were returned, then they would entertain peace negotiations. ALL of the hostages never were returned, not sure what is so hard for people to comprehend about that. So again, Ree and WWJD, make fun of anyone who leans towards Israel on this or insult their intelligence for believing mainstream media or say "but but you don't know the history blah blah..." but at the same time you believe all of the propaganda that Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran put out there? Like for instance the hospital in Palestine that was bombed last November or December and all major news outlets ran with the "horrible atrocities" that were committed with that bombing, even major US media outlets. While the US and Israel said they were still investigating it, the whole world, social media and campus riots blew up against Israel even more. Well about two weeks later or so it was determined that Hamas had "inadvertently misfired" their own missile and hit their own hospital. Major Western media outlets issued a retraction and apology, but the damage to Israel's reputation was already done, and in this day and age of media a retraction that late isn't enough. So yes, we can also laugh at you for believing the other side's story every time just as much as you mock us. Not saying they are always wrong, but overall I will side against the ones using human shields to hide their headquarters and officers.
Third...This is where I will bring it back on topic to the OP thread title, or how it low key is actually about the Israel response to Iran. Hamas and Hezbollah are basically Iran, or their proxies. They aren't fighting Palestine or Lebanon, they are fighting groups with power and influence backed by Iran, so as much misdirection you all thought you were doing in this thread with the the evil Israelis thing and making it just about Palestine, you are in a way proving why they should attack Iran. They are the root of the problem, and without them, Hamas and Hezbollah would soon become an afterthought as they would lose most of their backing. Get Hamas and any like-minded terrorist group out of power there, and maybe they could be a two state system, but at this point now it seems like that isn't an option for the foreseeable future. To be clear though, Iran causes more instability in that region than any other country, either first hand or by proxy through other groups.
I'll just close it with this, I hate the fact that this is even a topic, I feel for all the innocent people on both sides of this war. The fact that these types of evil and conflicts still exist in the world, is well, depressing. That being said, Israel is more than capable, with or without the US's and their allies' backing, to take out Iran's nuclear production and research, and inflict major damage to Iran. Yes they use some of our weapons and technology, but their military is well-trained and their intelligence is first class. They can, and most likely should, disable Iran's nuclear advancement right now, because the longer they wait, the more of an issue Iran becomes, not just for them, but for the US, and by default the world.
Obviously most of these posters have zero biblical knowledge. It's never going to end. Maybe temporary peace at times. But the hate is real. No Peace until Jesus returns and cleans the mess up.
You don’t have to take any of it seriously. However there is a difference between what you are suggesting as war crimes and someone seeing an issue with a group of people who is murdering your countrymen.
I don’t think it’s “all libs” but I do think there are more liberals than conservatives who are sympathetic to some of those causes.
Just about the only difference between the two sides is that Israel does their seizing of land and killing of innocent civilians through an organized military, so it’s more intentionally acceptable.
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I expected Ree4 to laugh at my post, but I will trust what I have discussed with, for years before this conflict and now after it started, my friends in the military (nothing classified obviously but I listen to the good info they can discuss) who deal with and have been actively involved in the military operations involving that area, but also refugees I have befriended in the recent past. When you sit with people from Syria, Egypt and other countries over there who have become displaced and their lives uprooted from things we just read about, it both humbles you and makes you realize how much we take for granted in the US.
I respect your right to your opinion Ree4, but your mocking others in this thread on theirs is both immature and actually hurts the good points you sometimes make. Just saying. ✌️
I respect your right to your opinion Ree4, but your mocking others in this thread on theirs is both immature and actually hurts the good points you sometimes make. Just saying. ✌️
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Probably but I’m just saying my side of the aisle gets called pro-Hamas anytime we sympathize with the Palestinian people. There are next to no democrats who are on the side of terrorists. I’m really damn liberal now but I HATE terrorists. I’m probably pretty right leaning when it comes to dealing with them and Iran.
